236 réponses à ce sujet

[mdugger12]

BobSmith101 wrote...

mdugger12 wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

mdugger12 wrote...

nerdage wrote...

To be fair, I think Laidlaw's "trashing" DAO was at least as valid as any points you can make about DA2. He never said "It was a terrible game and we're ashamed of it." but things like comabt feeling unresponsive were completely true, if you ordered a warrior to intercept someone going for your mage they'd just swivel on the spot until the enemy stopped moving (presumably because they reached your mage and were getting to work).

Could it even be problems with Origins that put some people off DA2?

Mind = Blown!

See, thats something nobody is even bothering to consider.  DA:O was obviously not made for consoles but managed to sell 3.2 million and 360 and PS3. Somehow everyone seemed to take it for granted that all of those people were happy with the first game and planned on buying DA2. 

That's what's really getting lost in all of this. The changes made to the game that disappointed a lot of fans were made to make the game more console friendly. But regardless of the sales figures of the first and how great the story and the world was, DA:O was a substandard port. That was reason enough for some people not to be as excited about DA2 regardless of the hype.

So while some people want to only focus on how Bioware wronged them and point out changes that "ruined" the game, how different do you think things would have been if they stuck to the DA:O playbook? Does anybody really think they would have reached 4 million sales by giving console gamers another crappy port?

Yes, I would also like to point out that it was not a crappy port, because the end result after porting was a game that was still far better than a majority of RPGs on the consoles. Therefore the console players, ones who have the ported version were not as unhappy as you claim. Your coming at it from the perspective of the PC player looking in at the console version as opposed to the console player who have the ported version.

Oh no. I'm speaking from the perspective of a console gamer that wasn't as impressed with DA:O as they were told they should have been. Not necessarily how I felt but believe me those feelings were out there. But if you're saying YES it would have hit 4 million by not making changes you're mistaken.

Honestly it couldn't hit those numbers either way......

Mass Effect 2 Sales PS3
http://gamrreview.vg.../mass-effect-2/

That says all that needs to be said about the slugish market hurting sales figures.  Not even 400k. Come on.

You do realise that most serious gamers have both consoles and the Xbox version was out a year before ? Also at the time they released the PS3 version the Xbox version is selling for £10.
The only real benifit in the PS3 version is getting all the free DLC.

That would account for some of the sales but you have to admit that there are enough PS3 owners that don't own a 360 to account for more sales than the game has posted.  You can say "serious gamers" have both but there are plenty of gamers that only have one or the other.

[mdugger12]

Dragoonlordz wrote...


ME2 came close to 3mil sales, baring in mind they also made some big changes. Without those changes could it have hit 4mil, possibly but no way of knowing for sure. According to VG DAO made 3.66mil sales, over it's lifetime so far, could DA2 have hit 4mil if had stuck closer to DAO and further from Darksiders, I think so.
 

I'm not even going to go down that road. ME 2 made HUGE changes and became GOY material because of them. But the reason I brought up ME2's PS3 numbers is because even a game that we know what kind of sales its capable of hasn't even moved 400k on the PS3. The market is sluggish. Thats all DA2 sales figures prove. The fans aren't "sticking it" to Bioware and showing they're unhappy. The fans are broke.

[mdugger12]

Elton John is dead wrote...

Sorry to burst your bubble kid but DA2 is still the best selling RPG for PC on Amazon.co.uk

Click

Oh let's not let this get buried since everyone seemed to ignore it the first time.

[AlexXIV]

mdugger12 wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...


ME2 came close to 3mil sales, baring in mind they also made some big changes. Without those changes could it have hit 4mil, possibly but no way of knowing for sure. According to VG DAO made 3.66mil sales, over it's lifetime so far, could DA2 have hit 4mil if had stuck closer to DAO and further from Darksiders, I think so.
 

I'm not even going to go down that road. ME 2 made HUGE changes and became GOY material because of them. But the reason I brought up ME2's PS3 numbers is because even a game that we know what kind of sales its capable of hasn't even moved 400k on the PS3. The market is sluggish. Thats all DA2 sales figures prove. The fans aren't "sticking it" to Bioware and showing they're unhappy. The fans are broke.

And I say half of the DA2 sales it owes to DA:O.

[nopho]

mdugger12 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

mdugger12 wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

mdugger12 wrote...

nerdage wrote...

To be fair, I think Laidlaw's "trashing" DAO was at least as valid as any points you can make about DA2. He never said "It was a terrible game and we're ashamed of it." but things like comabt feeling unresponsive were completely true, if you ordered a warrior to intercept someone going for your mage they'd just swivel on the spot until the enemy stopped moving (presumably because they reached your mage and were getting to work).

Could it even be problems with Origins that put some people off DA2?

Mind = Blown!

See, thats something nobody is even bothering to consider.  DA:O was obviously not made for consoles but managed to sell 3.2 million and 360 and PS3. Somehow everyone seemed to take it for granted that all of those people were happy with the first game and planned on buying DA2. 

That's what's really getting lost in all of this. The changes made to the game that disappointed a lot of fans were made to make the game more console friendly. But regardless of the sales figures of the first and how great the story and the world was, DA:O was a substandard port. That was reason enough for some people not to be as excited about DA2 regardless of the hype.

So while some people want to only focus on how Bioware wronged them and point out changes that "ruined" the game, how different do you think things would have been if they stuck to the DA:O playbook? Does anybody really think they would have reached 4 million sales by giving console gamers another crappy port?

Yes, I would also like to point out that it was not a crappy port, because the end result after porting was a game that was still far better than a majority of RPGs on the consoles. Therefore the console players, ones who have the ported version were not as unhappy as you claim. Your coming at it from the perspective of the PC player looking in at the console version as opposed to the console player who have the ported version.

Oh no. I'm speaking from the perspective of a console gamer that wasn't as impressed with DA:O as they were told they should have been. Not necessarily how I felt but believe me those feelings were out there. But if you're saying YES it would have hit 4 million by not making changes you're mistaken.

Honestly it couldn't hit those numbers either way......

Mass Effect 2 Sales PS3
http://gamrreview.vg.../mass-effect-2/

That says all that needs to be said about the slugish market hurting sales figures.  Not even 400k. Come on.

You do realise that most serious gamers have both consoles and the Xbox version was out a year before ? Also at the time they released the PS3 version the Xbox version is selling for £10.
The only real benifit in the PS3 version is getting all the free DLC.

That would account for some of the sales but you have to admit that there are enough PS3 owners that don't own a 360 to account for more sales than the game has posted.  You can say "serious gamers" have both but there are plenty of gamers that only have one or the other.

yes, like the 360k people who bought it?
number of ps3 owners
- number of people who own a 360
- number of people who are not interested in this kind of game

[naughty99]

Boiny Bunny wrote...

The strange thing is, I've been playing (perhaps as Laidlaw suggested) on Nightmare from the very start. The combat is terrible in my opinion. The absolute worst part of the game. And shoved in your face at every single opportunity. Every single quest has multiple combat scenarios. Every area between quests has them. You practically can't take 2 steps anywhere in the game without 4 waves of fully armoured ninjas jumping out of the sky (or similar).

Enemies have far too much HP. The battles just go on for far longer than they should. Most of the big bosses take 30 minutes to an hour to complete, in one attempt that is.

Also, again IMO, on any difficulty, Assassins are incredibly broken. I would love to see a mod that removes them from the game completely and replaces them with another enemy type.

It seems the elements you found annoying are some of the changes I like most about the game. I love the combat on Nightmare and I love the fact that it takes forever to complete each battle. (playing on PC) 

So far the only boss battle I felt was not well designed was the Arishok duel.

Modifié par naughty99, 16 avril 2011 - 03:08 .

[nopho]

mdugger12 wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

Sorry to burst your bubble kid but DA2 is still the best selling RPG for PC on Amazon.co.uk

Click

Oh let's not let this get buried since everyone seemed to ignore it the first time.

you can buy it for ~14pounds and get ME2 for free wich costs 10pounds.
you pay 4pounds for DA2, nice price.

[Boiny Bunny]

mdugger12 wrote...

Boiny Bunny wrote...

The strange thing is, I've been playing (perhaps as Laidlaw suggested) on Nightmare from the very start. The combat is terrible in my opinion. The absolute worst part of the game. And shoved in your face at every single opportunity. Every single quest has multiple combat scenarios. Every area between quests has them. You practically can't take 2 steps anywhere in the game without 4 waves of fully armoured ninjas jumping out of the sky (or similar).

Enemies have far too much HP. The battles just go on for far longer than they should. Most of the big bosses take 30 minutes to an hour to complete, in one attempt that is. I'm not sure how Laidlaw (or anybody) could think that any breed of gamer (be it casual, RPG, FPS, or anywhere in between) would find a battle interesting where they do nothing but hit something for 1 hour while in almost no danger whatsoever of being killed.

I did however play it at a friend's house on their 360 (with their 2 handed warrior, on Normal). The game plays much more smoothly in terms of combat. Things die quickly, dozens of enemies are killed every minute, blood flies all over the screen. And of course, button mashing galore. I feel that this was the difficulty that the designers spent 90% of their time on - then at the end quickly tagged the others on the end and only bothered to increase basic enemy stats like HP, damage, resistances, etc.

At any rate, on Normal, I found teh combat to be utterly mindless (and button mashing galore on a console) - while Nightmare is incredibly boring by virtue of many of the big battles turning into 30 minute to 1 hour kite fests.

Also, again IMO, on any difficulty, Assassins are incredibly broken. I would love to see a mod that removes them from the game completely and replaces them with another enemy type.

Really? I've heard other people say this about playing on nightmare too. I play on nightmare on 360 but It isn't like that at all. I mean yeah enemies have alot of HP but it's never a situation where It takes long periods of time to kill them and mistakes on my end are usually met with a swift death so there is always danger. 

Well, I don't claim to know the differences between the PC and 360 versions in terms of combat difficulty.  As I recall, in Origins, 'Nightmare' on the 360 was actually just 'Hard' on the PC.  I've heard that Nightmare in DA2 on the PC is harder than Nightmare on the 360/PS3 - not sure exactly how though.  Perhaps HP factors into it.

At any rate, I don't have much trouble surviving on Nightmare I find, it's more just that each battle takes far too long.

[Boiny Bunny]

naughty99 wrote...

Boiny Bunny wrote...

The strange thing is, I've been playing (perhaps as Laidlaw suggested) on Nightmare from the very start. The combat is terrible in my opinion. The absolute worst part of the game. And shoved in your face at every single opportunity. Every single quest has multiple combat scenarios. Every area between quests has them. You practically can't take 2 steps anywhere in the game without 4 waves of fully armoured ninjas jumping out of the sky (or similar).

Enemies have far too much HP. The battles just go on for far longer than they should. Most of the big bosses take 30 minutes to an hour to complete, in one attempt that is.

Also, again IMO, on any difficulty, Assassins are incredibly broken. I would love to see a mod that removes them from the game completely and replaces them with another enemy type.

It seems the elements you found annoying are some of the changes I like most about the game. I love the combat on Nightmare and I love the fact that it takes forever to complete each battle. (playing on PC) 

So far the only boss battle I felt was not well designed was the Arishok duel.

Really?  I'm a little curious.  What exactly do you find entertaining about fights going on forever with very little actual threat to your characters?  You just keep shuffling them around (kiting) for 15 minutes and then its over.  I've felt it's all a bit mindless and boring.

[AkiKishi]

[quote]nopho wrote...
That would account for some of the sales but you have to admit that there are enough PS3 owners that don't own a 360 to account for more sales than the game has posted.  You can say "serious gamers" have both but there are plenty of gamers that only have one or the other.[/quote]

yes, like the 360k people who bought it?
number of ps3 owners
- number of people who own a 360
- number of people who are not interested in this kind of game

[/quote]

It being a 2 put a lot of PS3 players off on the message boards I frequent. Also a game released after a year does not have the same sort of advertising behind it for the casual market.

That covers both gamers (point 1) and casual (point 2).

Of course it's only educated guessing.

[mdugger12]

nopho wrote...

yes, like the 360k people who bought it?
number of ps3 owners
- number of people who own a 360
- number of people who are not interested in this kind of game

Nah. Still doesn't account for the low numbers. You're talking about under 400k. It's not 1.2 million and we're talking about why it didn't get to 2 million. Believe me, they have demo numbers regarding console ownership and these sales figures wouldn't add up if the market as a whole as booming.

It's not like I'm just pulling sales figures from nothing but poor selling games to prove my point. Every games numbers I submit everybody has an excuse. Maybe one or two wouldn't show anything but there are too many examples to pretend that games aren't hitting the same numbers we would expect. How come the reason DA2 isn't hitting the numbers everyone expected is because no game is hitting the numbers anyone expected? If other games are selling like that then simply show the proof. Show me all of these games moving units.

[Dragoonlordz]

mdugger12 wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

Sorry to burst your bubble kid but DA2 is still the best selling RPG for PC on Amazon.co.uk

Click

Oh let's not let this get buried since everyone seemed to ignore it the first time.

Lets not also get buried why it's 'Bestseller' on specifically Amazon. It is only £14 for (new) copy of which you get ME2 for free with it. Has nothing to do with quality, comes to to fact it's a very cheap new game thats boosting sales. Price drops on titles happen if they a) Been out a long time or Are a lower or badly rated game. You can pick which of those you think applies but I can tell you now using that reference link is not doing what you intended to do. As it stands right now the cost of the games is shocking low given how soon after release, on top of that there is already a package deal buy one get one free being DA2+ME2 so shortly after release. DAO did not require it to be bundled with ME1 to boost sales.

You cannot argue against the fact if it was not a sequel Dragon Age "2" that the sales would be much lower because it wouldn't have had the DA franchise to fall back on which already had it's own fanbase for the title/series, I happen to think DA2 will eventually hit 2mil but it will be much slower pace and will depend on DLC.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 16 avril 2011 - 03:25 .

[nopho]

mdugger12 wrote...

nopho wrote...

yes, like the 360k people who bought it?
number of ps3 owners
- number of people who own a 360
- number of people who are not interested in this kind of game

Nah. Still doesn't account for the low numbers. You're talking about under 400k. It's not 1.2 million and we're talking about why it didn't get to 2 million. Believe me, they have demo numbers regarding console ownership and these sales figures wouldn't add up if the market as a whole as booming.

It's not like I'm just pulling sales figures from nothing but poor selling games to prove my point. Every games numbers I submit everybody has an excuse. Maybe one or two wouldn't show anything but there are too many examples to pretend that games aren't hitting the same numbers we would expect. How come the reason DA2 isn't hitting the numbers everyone expected is because no game is hitting the numbers anyone expected? If other games are selling like that then simply show the proof. Show me all of these games moving units.

erm..we are talking about that DA2 likely won't hit 2milliuon sales AT ALL

ME2 sold almost 3million copies and it is a game wich seems not to have been made for the pc.
(plus i cannot tell anything about ME2 i am very early in gaming and got a bug wich i wait for an answer how to solve it)

[Boiny Bunny]

Dragoonlordz is right. DA2 is selling at a large discount at many retailers, and now ME2 is being packaged with it. Both of these things mean that Bioware is not getting as much money as it could be. DA:O remained at full price for a very long time by comparison (at most retailers, I won't claim to have knowledge of the discounting policy of every game outlet in the world).

Which really, makes all of this 'numbers' stuff a bit meaningless - I mean, DA2 numbers are very quickly falling behind DA:O numbers. That's to be expected - there is much lower interest due to the reviews and word of mouth. I've even heard of instances where Gamestop employees are telling their customers to NOT purchase DA2 because it is that bad.

What really matters is the revenue generated from the product. Numbers are half of that, the price at which each unit sold is the other half (minus costs of producing the physical copies + overheads etc. etc. etc.)

Modifié par Boiny Bunny, 16 avril 2011 - 03:21 .

[mdugger12]

[quote]BobSmith101 wrote...

[quote]nopho wrote...
That would account for some of the sales but you have to admit that there are enough PS3 owners that don't own a 360 to account for more sales than the game has posted.  You can say "serious gamers" have both but there are plenty of gamers that only have one or the other.[/quote]

yes, like the 360k people who bought it?
number of ps3 owners
- number of people who own a 360
- number of people who are not interested in this kind of game

[/quote]

It being a 2 put a lot of PS3 players off on the message boards I frequent. Also a game released after a year does not have the same sort of advertising behind it for the casual market.

That covers both gamers (point 1) and casual (point 2).

Of course it's only educated guessing.[/quote]

If it was an isolated case and we we're having a conversation about why ME2's PS3 numbers so low and all of the other games released this year where selling about as expected I would concede that you're probably right. But 400k is pretty low even for a staggered release for a game of ME 2's pedigree. And. We have sales numbers for games like Bulletstorm, Homefront, Crysis 2, Fight Night Champions, WWE All Stars and scores of other 2011 releases that don't seem to be selling either as expected or on pace with other games in their franchise. It's enough evidence to at least admit that maybe DA2 isn't looking so hot compared to DA:O but is doing just fine compared to games released so far this year.

[xkg]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

mdugger12 wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

Sorry to burst your bubble kid but DA2 is still the best selling RPG for PC on Amazon.co.uk

Click

Oh let's not let this get buried since everyone seemed to ignore it the first time.

Lets not also get buried why it's so high up in sales. It is only £13 for (new) copy. Has nothing to do with quality, comes to to fact it's a very cheap new game thats boosting sales. Price drops on titles happen if they a) Been out a long time or Are a lower or badly rated game. You can pick which of those you think applies but I can tell you now using that reference link is not doing what you intended to do. As it stands right now the cost of the games is shocking low given how soon after release, on top of that there is already a package deal buy one get one free being DA2+ME2 so shortly after release.

Omg that is indeed hilarious. 14 £ already (£34.99 £13.98). even so much bashed Two Worlds 2 price-drop isnt such big (£29.99 £21.94 )
 

Modifié par xkg, 16 avril 2011 - 03:29 .

[mdugger12]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

mdugger12 wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

Sorry to burst your bubble kid but DA2 is still the best selling RPG for PC on Amazon.co.uk

Click

Oh let's not let this get buried since everyone seemed to ignore it the first time.

Lets not also get buried why it's 'Bestseller' on specifically Amazon. It is only £14 for (new) copy of which you get ME2 for free with it. Has nothing to do with quality, comes to to fact it's a very cheap new game thats boosting sales. Price drops on titles happen if they a) Been out a long time or Are a lower or badly rated game. You can pick which of those you think applies but I can tell you now using that reference link is not doing what you intended to do. As it stands right now the cost of the games is shocking low given how soon after release, on top of that there is already a package deal buy one get one free being DA2+ME2 so shortly after release.

You cannot argue against the fact if it was not a sequel Dragon Age "2" that the sales would be much lower because it wouldn't have had the DA franchise to fall back on which already had it's own fanbase for the title/series, I happen to think DA2 will eventually hit 2mil but it will be much slower pace and will depend on DLC.

You're right, I can't argue the fact DA 2 had a big 1st week because of pre-orders and such. But even with 400k+ in preorders It's doing alright. All I'm asking is everyone get back to being the rational person they were before Bioware made them upset and realize that there is nothing gained by only accepting information that supports their feelings and discarding anything that doesn't. I'm not even saying DA 2 is good. That's not my point. But the numbers don't support any type of backlash. It's just the way things were already going this year.

Edit- Oh and I can care less how much they game sells for. If it's garbage it doesn't matter. You can price something like Fight Club for $5 and it wouldn't sell.

Modifié par mdugger12, 16 avril 2011 - 03:31 .

[SoR82]

I think ive gianed more enjoyment from these forums since release than i did playing the game itself XD

[Volourn]

"I don't know about you Volourn but characters like Morrigan, Alistair, Loghain, Oghren, Leliana and Zevran are very, very memorable compared to the ones we got in DA2. "

Morrigan is awesome. Allistair is crap. Loghain is alright. Oghren is the worst dwarven npc ever in a BIO game. Leliana is alright. Zevran is plain garbage. So.. only one memorable character amongst the ones you listed while DA2 has Isabella, Fenris, Varric,Carver, Bethany, and Anders (wh is a million times more interesting in DA2 than he was in DA1).


"And I say half of the DA2 sales it owes to DA:O."

You'd be wrong. Both DA1, and DA2 owe their high sales to BIO's reputation that have managed to gain over the past 10+ years with games like BG, BG2, NWN, JE (despite it being on the lower end sales wise), KOTOR, and ME1.

DA1 deserves no credit since it probably had people loathe it who opted out of DA2 because they hated DA1. R00fles!

[Alex109222]

I'm glad to see the sales bombing.

[Volourn]

You need new glasses. They're doing anything but bominbg.

[AkiKishi]

mdugger12 wrote...
Edit- Oh and I can care less how much they game sells for. If it's garbage it doesn't matter. You can price something like Fight Club for $5 and it wouldn't sell.

You should if you want to predict sales trends. If retailers are selling the game off at firesale prices after a month, they will not be reordering the game in large numbers just to gather dust on shelves and in warehouses. 

[Alex109222]

Volourn wrote...

You need new glasses. They're doing anything but bominbg.

Bombing= going down.
What were you thinking? (Also how do you know I have glasses?)

[MingWolf]

Volourn wrote...

You'd be wrong. Both DA1, and DA2 owe their high sales to BIO's reputation that have managed to gain over the past 10+ years with games like BG, BG2, NWN, JE (despite it being on the lower end sales wise), KOTOR, and ME1.

DA1 deserves no credit since it probably had people loathe it who opted out of DA2 because they hated DA1. R00fles!

No no, its a bit of both.  DA:O earned a lot of fans, and fans can turn into loyal customers.  People would buy games based on the merits of another good game than on the merits of a company itself.  Besides, DA2 was supposedly a sequel.  Just look at peoples' opinions on DA2.  Most have played DA:O. 

[The Train]

Scimal wrote...

man giraffe dog3 wrote...

I wonder why people didnt buy it?  Surely it must be a good game, right?

Because some people are too busy hating on it right now and fill Metacritic scores with a bunch of biased nonsense. That, and it's not really a game-buying season. Finals are coming down on college campuses, no time for games - not to mention vacation season is just starting to wind up and people are getting outside to exercise if you happen to live in a place that gets snow.

for any university on the quarter system, the game was released right before spring break.

"biased" or "honest"?  it's only biased because you have different taste in games.