236 réponses à ce sujet

[LyndseyCousland]

Really, I don't get how hard it is to appeal to both fanbases. I've seen other games do it.

[Vice-Admiral von Titsling]

They willingly alienated the former core fanbase and tried to appeal to more people

I have a hell of a time trying to reconcile this fact with the whole "But our core fans are really important to us. I can’t emphasize that
enough. They helped get us to where we are today. They’re the core of
what we do, and we want to make sure we’re making games that satisfy
them." quote from a few days ago.

Apparently the 'core fans' only matter when they revolt and refuse to buy the game.

[abaris]

LyndseyCousland wrote...

Really, I don't get how hard it is to appeal to both fanbases. I've seen other games do it.

Which ones?

As far as I remember, when someone tried to create a hybrid, they failed. Peter Molyneux tried that to pull that trick with his movies in 2005 and failed on both sides of the coin. Has anyone heard from him since then?

Truth is, casual gamers might be attracted, but casual gamers move on eagerly if there something new and shiny on the horizon. They don't make up for losing the core audience. I can only speak for myself, but DAII just doesn't cut it for me. And I can't even say, I hate shooters or FPS in general. I played them and enjoyed them. I just don't want to see elements of that genre mixed with the RPG experience.

[Tantum Dic Verbo]

abaris wrote...

LyndseyCousland wrote...

Really, I don't get how hard it is to appeal to both fanbases. I've seen other games do it.

Which ones?

As far as I remember, when someone tried to create a hybrid, they failed. Peter Molyneux tried that to pull that trick with his movies in 2005 and failed on both sides of the coin. Has anyone heard from him since then?

Truth is, casual gamers might be attracted, but casual gamers move on eagerly if there something new and shiny on the horizon. They don't make up for losing the core audience. I can only speak for myself, but DAII just doesn't cut it for me. And I can't even say, I hate shooters or FPS in general. I played them and enjoyed them. I just don't want to see elements of that genre mixed with the RPG experience.

The other side is that entrenched fanbases tend to develop a sense of ownership of the games being produced.  It's possible that some folks in Bioware really want to make a different kind of game and think that they can attract a new generation of RPG players with it.  If I were a designer, I certainly wouldn't want to remake Baldur's Gate over and over.

I'm wondering how much of the "core audience" Bioware would actually lose with a high quality approach to their current direction.  There are only so many games with strong role-playing elements out there that even the hardcores might eventually pick up their games.  At least, that might be part of the calculation.

[SoR82]

Volourn wrote...

protip: BIO has been making good games that sell for over a decade including DA2.

BIO wins.

You may dear gent are worth the price of admission alone

[abaris]

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...

I'm wondering how much of the "core audience" Bioware would actually lose with a high quality approach to their current direction.  There are only so many games with strong role-playing elements out there that even the hardcores might eventually pick up their games.  At least, that might be part of the calculation.

But what exactly is their current direction?

You can't really tell. Streamlining, in my book, excludes high quality. Strip the word down to its bare essentials and it means reducing. Also I'm talking about the DA series here. DAII didn't cut it, but that doesn't mean I won't look at ME3. I will look and if I like what I see, I will buy.

Its all about genres and expectations. And they obviously tried to crossdress the genres. A high quality approach wouldn't do that, since it seems to be a sure recipe for not pleasing either side.

[Gatt9]

Volourn wrote...

protip: BIO has been making good games that sell for over a decade including DA2.

BIO wins.

Protip:  Bioware clearly told us that they haven't even managed to sell 1 million units yet. 

Protip:  Publicly traded companies are prohibited from making false sales claims,  with the SEC having very serious penalties for intentionally publicly reporting false sales figures,  as well as giving shareholders a reason to sue.

Protip:  Which is why you'll find Bioware's statement does not make the claim that they sold any number of units.

Protip:  Which directly tells us they absolutely could not have sold 1 million units,  because the only reason you don't use the word,  is because when you have to appear in court you have to show definitive evidence.

So no,  I'm sorry,  Bioware did not win.

Which ones?

As far as I remember, when someone tried to create a hybrid, they failed. Peter Molyneux tried that to pull that trick with his movies in 2005 and failed on both sides of the coin. Has anyone heard from him since then?

Truth is, casual gamers might be attracted, but casual gamers move on eagerly if there something new and shiny on the horizon. They don't make up for losing the core audience. I can only speak for myself, but DAII just doesn't cut it for me. And I can't even say, I hate shooters or FPS in general. I played them and enjoyed them. I just don't want to see elements of that genre mixed with the RPG experience.

Um...Molyneux is behind Fable,  Fable 2,  and Fable 3.  Which actually all sold more units than Mass Effect 2.  Though,  Fable 3 got roasted for the very same reasons DA2 is getting it,  in fact,  it's pretty much identical.  Removed most RPG elements,  features implemented in weak fashion,  weak time-jumping gameplay,  decisions make no impact.

[Jitter]

I like Apple Pie
I like Steak

It will be a cold day in hell when i order an Apple Pie Steak .

[man giraffe dog2]

Gatt9 wrote...

Volourn wrote...

protip: BIO has been making good games that sell for over a decade including DA2.

BIO wins.

Protip:  Bioware clearly told us that they haven't even managed to sell 1 million units yet. 

Protip:  Publicly traded companies are prohibited from making false sales claims,  with the SEC having very serious penalties for intentionally publicly reporting false sales figures,  as well as giving shareholders a reason to sue.

Protip:  Which is why you'll find Bioware's statement does not make the claim that they sold any number of units.

Protip:  Which directly tells us they absolutely could not have sold 1 million units,  because the only reason you don't use the word,  is because when you have to appear in court you have to show definitive evidence.

So no,  I'm sorry,  Bioware did not win.

The company says that Dragon Age II hit 1 million copies sold within two weeks of launch - Industry Gamers

BioWare today confirmed Dragon Age II has sold - not shipped - over 1 million copies worldwide in less than two weeks.  - IGN

Got a link to the original statement from Bioware?

Modifié par man giraffe dog2, 17 avril 2011 - 07:59 .

[man giraffe dog3]

man giraffe dog2 wrote...

Gatt9 wrote...

Volourn wrote...

protip: BIO has been making good games that sell for over a decade including DA2.

BIO wins.

Protip:  Bioware clearly told us that they haven't even managed to sell 1 million units yet. 

Protip:  Publicly traded companies are prohibited from making false sales claims,  with the SEC having very serious penalties for intentionally publicly reporting false sales figures,  as well as giving shareholders a reason to sue.

Protip:  Which is why you'll find Bioware's statement does not make the claim that they sold any number of units.

Protip:  Which directly tells us they absolutely could not have sold 1 million units,  because the only reason you don't use the word,  is because when you have to appear in court you have to show definitive evidence.

So no,  I'm sorry,  Bioware did not win.

The company says that Dragon Age II hit 1 million copies sold within two weeks of launch - Industry Gamers

BioWare today confirmed Dragon Age II has sold - not shipped - over 1 million copies worldwide in less than two weeks.  - IGN

Got a link to the original statement from Bioware?

Oh look who it is.  Hi thar faker!

I know I did my job right when some Biodrone, in their sad little mind,  feels that making an account using my good name and defending the game will somehow maybe sway peoples opinions.  I dont think you're fooling anyone.

You guys can disregard MGD2's posts.  I didnt spam the forums for weeks on end because I liked the game.  The game is still and always will be horribad.

[Everwarden]

man giraffe dog3 wrote...
I know I did my job right when some Biodrone, in their sad little mind,  feels that making an account using my good name and defending the game will somehow maybe sway peoples opinions.  I dont think you're fooling anyone.

Hah, and here I'd thought you flip-flopped. 

[Tantum Dic Verbo]

abaris wrote...

You can't really tell. Streamlining, in my book, excludes high quality. Strip the word down to its bare essentials and it means reducing. Also I'm talking about the DA series here. DAII didn't cut it, but that doesn't mean I won't look at ME3. I will look and if I like what I see, I will buy.

To me, "streamlining" means removing redundant or needlessly complex game mechanics in favor of achieving roughly the same effect in simpler terms.  I'm used to using it in terms of tabletop design, and that's typically how it's used there.

[man giraffe dog2]

Everwarden wrote...

man giraffe dog3 wrote...
I know I did my job right when some Biodrone, in their sad little mind,  feels that making an account using my good name and defending the game will somehow maybe sway peoples opinions.  I dont think you're fooling anyone.

Hah, and here I'd thought you flip-flopped. 

I have actually started some constructive posting. man giraffe dog3 is an imposter.

[Rompa87]

man giraffe dog2 wrote...

Everwarden wrote...

man giraffe dog3 wrote...
I know I did my job right when some Biodrone, in their sad little mind,  feels that making an account using my good name and defending the game will somehow maybe sway peoples opinions.  I dont think you're fooling anyone.

Hah, and here I'd thought you flip-flopped. 

I have actually started some constructive posting. man giraffe dog3 is an imposter.

TBH, I will take anything I hear from a Man-Giraffe-Dog (******-Giraffa-Canis), regardless of number, with a large grain of salt

Modifié par Rompa87, 18 avril 2011 - 12:52 .

[Boiny Bunny]

man giraffe dog2 wrote...

Gatt9 wrote...

Volourn wrote...

protip: BIO has been making good games that sell for over a decade including DA2.

BIO wins.

Protip:  Bioware clearly told us that they haven't even managed to sell 1 million units yet. 

Protip:  Publicly traded companies are prohibited from making false sales claims,  with the SEC having very serious penalties for intentionally publicly reporting false sales figures,  as well as giving shareholders a reason to sue.

Protip:  Which is why you'll find Bioware's statement does not make the claim that they sold any number of units.

Protip:  Which directly tells us they absolutely could not have sold 1 million units,  because the only reason you don't use the word,  is because when you have to appear in court you have to show definitive evidence.

So no,  I'm sorry,  Bioware did not win.

The company says that Dragon Age II hit 1 million copies sold within two weeks of launch - Industry Gamers

BioWare today confirmed Dragon Age II has sold - not shipped - over 1 million copies worldwide in less than two weeks.  - IGN

Got a link to the original statement from Bioware?

Go to the first link you just posted.  Read it.

The exact quote from Bioware, is (as written first on these forums by Chris Priestly, and repeated in that article):

"Thanks to gamers like you, Dragon Age II is off to a great start – breaking the 1 million mark in less than two weeks and faster than Dragon Age: Origins. We appreciate your support"

'breaking the 1 million mark' - does not specify sold or shipped.

The article you have there has interpreted this statement as sold.

[_Motoki_]

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...

abaris wrote...

You can't really tell. Streamlining, in my book, excludes high quality. Strip the word down to its bare essentials and it means reducing. Also I'm talking about the DA series here. DAII didn't cut it, but that doesn't mean I won't look at ME3. I will look and if I like what I see, I will buy.

To me, "streamlining" means removing redundant or needlessly complex game mechanics in favor of achieving roughly the same effect in simpler terms.  I'm used to using it in terms of tabletop design, and that's typically how it's used there.

Ideally, that is what streamlining should be. It should be a positive thing, removing redundancy yet still achieving mostly the same results.

Unfortunately, too often it's used as marketing PR talk to try to put a positive spin on cutting corners and yanking or greatly simplifying features in order to please the lowest common denominator.

[Warheadz]

DA2 did unnecessary Streamlining, the worst thing there is. They removed things and complexity without achieving anything.

I still can't understand why they did DA2 when they had to rush, when they could have just as easily pulled off a Nintendo and have made a Origins 2.

I did not want Origins 2. But it seems like the logical choice when you have to rush and cash in a bit, no? Instead, they went with DA2 even as they had to rush. Bad decisions (IMO) were made, and the execution was poor.

[Edhriano]

Jitter wrote...

I like Apple Pie
I like Steak

It will be a cold day in hell when i order an Apple Pie Steak .

I like cheese burger, when I already paid hard earn cash for a cheese burger
I expect to find cheese in it, I mean what's the point  naming it cheese burger
if there aren't any cheese in it ? (DUH!) . 

Seriously, I'd be really pissed to find no cheese in my cheese burger.
But hey that's just me.

:innocent: 

Modifié par Edhriano, 18 avril 2011 - 05:53 .

[Vena_86]

Serves them right. I hope they will remove the cancer from the company and start regaining their old strengths.

[Sabriana]

Boiny Bunny wrote...

Go to the first link you just posted.  Read it.

The exact quote from Bioware, is (as written first on these forums by Chris Priestly, and repeated in that article):

"Thanks to gamers like you, Dragon Age II is off to a great start – breaking the 1 million mark in less than two weeks and faster than Dragon Age: Origins. We appreciate your support"

'breaking the 1 million mark' - does not specify sold or shipped.

The article you have there has interpreted this statement as sold.

Which shows me, personally, how much the 'professionals' can be trusted. They can't even get a statement right that is easily accessible to everyone.

My mistrust in those 'professionals' is now at an all time high. I'm not even sure they didn't misquote/misinterpreted the bioware statement on purpose, just to give the impression that DA 2 is simply flying off the shelves, and everyone should just rush out and purchase it. <------ Personal impression/opinion only. Your mileage may vary.

Jitter wrote....
I like Apple Pie
I like Steak

It will be a cold day in hell when i order an Apple Pie Steak .

Well put. Some things simply don't mix, and will leave a bad taste behind.

Edited because one misplaced letter can change the whole meaning of a paragraph

Modifié par Sabriana, 18 avril 2011 - 07:37 .

[Otterwarden]

Sabriana wrote...

My mistrust in those 'professionals' is not at an all time high. I'm not even sure they didn't misquote/misinterpreted the bioware statement on purpose, just to give the impression that DA 2 is simply flying off the shelves, and everyone should just rush out and purchase it. <------ Personal impression/opinion only. Your mileage may vary.

This was the only source I saw that didn't copy paste the co. line and presented the cynical side as well:

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/free-mass-effect-2-with-dragon-age-ii-offer-2264460.html

[Sabriana]

@ Otterwarden

You, good sir/madam are simply tops when it comes to providing interesting links to emphasize your postings. I salute and thank you.

[abaris]

_Motoki_ wrote...


Unfortunately, too often it's used as marketing PR talk to try to put a positive spin on cutting corners and yanking or greatly simplifying features in order to please the lowest common denominator.

This, its marketing speech at its purest.

[Otterwarden]

Sabriana wrote...

@ Otterwarden

You, good sir/madam are simply tops when it comes to providing interesting links to emphasize your postings. I salute and thank you.

Your welcome, it just makes it more interesting if we bring the outside in. 

Female RGP gamer dating back to 1993, falling in the 41-50 grouping...Eurepterid's "Old fogeys club"

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Sabriana wrote...

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

I suppose your stats don't take into account the people who have returned their games because bugs made them unplayable?

It's a month after launch and there's STILL an issue on the PC that prevents the game from launching. I'm aware of several people who have since handed the game back (and probably warned their friends).

You're kidding. I've not been back in that thread because it's pointless. That's still not fixed? So that means that there are a significant number of players still left with.... what we are left with? That's just sad.

And yes, that was one of my major warning points when friends, family and acquaintances asked me about DA 2.

It's still not fixed. The latest patch failed and the issue is on the 'to do' list for 1.03--however far away that is. :/