95 réponses à ce sujet

[Autoclave]

 Adrenaline rush is more than a decent counterpart to cloak. You may have good arguments against it (which I will gladly read) but personally I feel like the AR is better than cloak.

If we forget about damage bonuses, which both powers can give you, what else does cloak bring? Move to cover? AR is very good at that too. You move at same speed while the world is slowed down, and soldier has bonus storm speed for that. And you cannot regen while cloaked. 

So the only other thing I can see on the table is incinerate and AI hack. If I need to destroy armor, I have widow with inferno ammo (which infiltrator does not have). AI hack? I have never been a fan of such sort of skills. I haven't seen many infiltrator builds that focus on AI hack. 

What does Soldier have that Infiltrator doesn't: Shotguns, Assault Rifle and Concussive shot. CS is no big deal, but you can see the overall picture: Infiltrator is more of less is a gimped soldier. 

Modifié par Autoclave, 16 avril 2011 - 04:26 .

[JeffZero]

Being the huge MGS fan that I am, I always feel more comfortable playing games like Mass Effect with a keen eye for stealth and subterfuge. So even if you're right from a more all-encompassing standpoint, I'll probably stick with Infiltrator for the most part.

[Saaziel]

It might sound strange , but being gimped is kinda fun...

I left my Solly mid game because the game play got redundant really fast. Which is a shame cause it was my first Femshep , I'll probably switch her to an adept or engineer (Something i haven't played yet). Regardless; Specifically on Cloak and AR , spamming AR is just that : Spamming AR. I never found cloak to be something you could spam, you need to manage your powers ,your squad and the context of the fight. You need to make tactical decisions. To me this is fun (Until Miranda decides now's the time regroup near Shepard while pathing near the Praetorian, even though she said , not 2 seconds ago, that "We shouldn't go near that!". But i digress.) AR is just boring.

Generally speaking on Soldiers & Infiltrators; I suppose you're right, when it comes down to the numbers. But there's a few builds the Infiltrator has that the Soldiers can't really get .The Puppet master Infiltrator for instance; Dominate + Ai hack. Fun, not a Min/Max build though.

Modifié par Saaziel, 16 avril 2011 - 05:05 .

[EffectedByTheMasses]

I heard one person one the forums say 'Soldiers are like the science of sniping, while infiltrators are the art of sniping' or something along those lines.

While soldiers are far more efficient and it is easier to make clean, high-damage shots, infiltrators have that essence around them that makes them more fun to many people.

Modifié par EffectedByTheMasses, 16 avril 2011 - 05:07 .

[IntrepidProdigy]

I can't wait to import my infiltrator into ME2. All I've been thinking about is my strategy: sniping with the mantis to strip as much of the enemy's defenses/health as possible without killing them outright, and then cloak to get inside enemy lines to finish them off with my shotty like a true infiltrator. Really, as much as I love the soldier, I think I'll have a bit more fun with the infiltrator...it might just be because the infiltrator new to me though.

Modifié par IntrepidProdigy, 16 avril 2011 - 07:18 .

[Aklis]

I preferred the Soldier in Mass Effect, because although snipers were nice, having only a pistol for back-up was sort of lame. Adding the Assault Rifle just made you a clone of Garrus, making him even more obsolete.

When I begun playing Mass Effect 2, I started out as an Infiltrator, but I quickly felt that the lack of ammo for the Mantis and the lack of a proper-backup weapon just felt silly. (A small pistol and an even smaller pistol. Come on?) So my next two playthroughs was as a Soldier. Then I found out how to mod the game using Ruby and whatnot, so I promptly added the AR to the infiltrator, which does make the class quite overpowered, but also much more fun to play.

I'll have to agree with the "Science of Sniping vs Art of Sniping", though.

[Stardusk78]

I don't think so. The Widow is overall more effective with the constant Sniper Slowdown of the Infiltrator. If the shot is looking bad, duck back down, pop up, done. Soldier only maxmises sniping via AR.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

In short:

Widow Soldier hits a lot harder than Widow Infiltrator, but it kinda has to, since needs to eat enemy fire as well. To the Soldier, the Widow is more of a cannon in addition to his other guns.

Widow Infiltrator gets to play with more subtlety, and also has ways to sabotage enemies as well. To the Infiltrator, the Widow is a more precision instrument.

[Autoclave]

Wut? Having slowdown during the zoom in is nowhere near as good as having the slowdown all the time pre-zoom and during zoom with AR.

[termokanden]

Sadly cloaking while sniping sometimes just leads to enemies taking cover. I think of this as a serious design issue with the infiltrator.

I think soldiers are definitely more powerful than infiltrators. But I found infiltrator more fun to play. It takes a whole lot more to use Cloak correctly than it does to own things with AR. But that also means it's more satisfying when it works.

And let me make it clear once again that infiltrators are NOT weak. The ability to go invisible and pick new cover whenever you need it alone is extremely useful. Cloak isn't just about damage, it's about being in the right place at the right time.

[xelander]

@ OP It seems to me that you try to make a quantitative comparison where only a qualitative one is applicable.

There are tons of different Infiltrator builds, many of which do not include the Widow.

Autoclave wrote...

Wut? Having slowdown during the zoom in is nowhere near as good as having the slowdown all the time pre-zoom and during zoom with AR.

You obviously haven't abused the time dilation with the Viper on - its broken. No other class has the opportunity to achieve a 100% sniper headshot ratio with a passive skill and at the same time reduce power cooldown time vs real time (in which enemies shoot at you, you know) ratio.

It seems you try to use the cloak for a damage booster for sniping - that's completely the wrong way to approach the Infiltrator. It's just what it is - above all else a skill to give you unrivaled mobility on the battlefield, and no, hardened AR is not the same and surely not better at that aspect.

If you want to compare eficciency (i.e. speed at clearing levels), there's the caveat that one class/build will always come on top - does that make all the other ones obsolete? The Infiltrator is a gimped Soldier only if you play it like that. So don't play the Infiltrator like a Soldier, play it like an Infiltrator.

Using the Widow as a Soldier might clear levels slightly faster at times, but the Infiltrators can move around unchecked - there's tactical supremacy for you...

On the other hand, whenever I want to feel some unadulterated "Arnie in "Commando"" fun, I load a Soldier save, slap on Hardened AR and don't let up the Revenant trigger after squeezing it.

Which brings me back to my original point - they are different gameplays, not quantitatively comparable. Brains and brawn, you know...

[mcsupersport]

I am sorry, there is nothing a Soldier can do to equal the ability to walk up to two unsuspecting mooks and blast both with headshots from an Eviscerater Shotgun at point blank and kill them both before moving on. Yeah, the Infiltrator isn't toe to toe as powerful as the Soldier, but the unique ability to move unseen about the battlefield is unmatched and therefore miles ahead of the Soldier. You can use AR to rush the enemies taking shots all the while and blast them, or use AR to snipe one shot per rush, and be a more efficient sniper, but you can't do what the Infiltrator can do around the battlefield. I have played both Widow and Shotgun Infiltrators and love the class way more than the Soldier, which I have played both Widow and Rev.

[fegede]

xelander wrote...

@ OP It seems to me that you try to make a quantitative comparison where only a qualitative one is applicable.

There are tons of different Infiltrator builds, many of which do not include the Widow.

Autoclave wrote...

Wut? Having slowdown during the zoom in is nowhere near as good as having the slowdown all the time pre-zoom and during zoom with AR.

You obviously haven't abused the time dilation with the Viper on - its broken. No other class has the opportunity to achieve a 100% sniper headshot ratio with a passive skill and at the same time reduce power cooldown time vs real time (in which enemies shoot at you, you know) ratio.

It seems you try to use the cloak for a damage booster for sniping - that's completely the wrong way to approach the Infiltrator. It's just what it is - above all else a skill to give you unrivaled mobility on the battlefield, and no, hardened AR is not the same and surely not better at that aspect.

A widow infiltrator using cloak as a damage boost was my first infiltrator run : pure frustration.
Xelander is right, sniping with the infiltrator is all about the viper and constant slow-mo. Add the mattock or a shotgun to that and the class really shines. Less dps than the soldier, but much more tactics and fun. Ai hacking is great and you will use you bonus power a lot more than with a soldier, might it be neural shock, flasbang, energy drain or whatever you wich to add to your arsenal

Modifié par fegede, 16 avril 2011 - 04:07 .

[PrinceLionheart]

 Obsolete? No. Infiltrator has more utility than the Soldier class. Personally though, I think Soldier is better than Infiltrator when it comes to OH1K, while Infiltrator is superior with the Viper combo with AR or Shotgun.

[Bachmors]

while Infiltrator is superior with the Viper combo with AR or Shotgun.

Not really ... during one heightened AR you can kill 2-3 enemies with the mattock on insanity (if almost each hit is a headshot, which isn't that hard on the PC with the time dilation).

I enjoy playing my Widow/mattock - soldier on insanity ... I always try to take out as many enemies as possible in the shortest amount of time and with virtually no missed shots ;-)
Swift and clean

Modifié par Bachmors, 16 avril 2011 - 04:51 .

[xelander]

fegede wrote...

Xelander is right, sniping with the infiltrator is all about the viper and constant slow-mo...

Not quite what I meant. Yes, the Viper is awesome in the hands of an Infiltrator, but the Widow is just as good - again, they lead to different playstyles - one is more about controlling the mobs, the other is more about precision strikes.

My favorite/cannon Shep is actually a classic/purist Infiltrator with a Widow, maxed ammo powers and Incinerate(area),
the class uniques are Agent and Enhanced Cloak. Whacky fun...

[fegede]

Sorry if I misquoted you then. For me, sniping with the widow is more enjoyable on the soldier, and sniping with the viper is way more fun with the infiltrator. I have to agree with the op that AR meshes better with the widow than cloak. Even on the mobility part, hitting AR and running like crazy works about as well as cloaking imo. the time dilatation in heightened ar and storm speed makes you almost untouchable when you run and cooldown is so low that you don't have to feel guilty about wasting it. Being seen also helps your teammates to stay alive. My widow infiltrator was doing the fights on his own too often

[ahgchyhn]

widow soldier vs. widow infiltrator

adrenalin rush enabels a time dilation and a huge damage boost on a small cooldown of 3 seconds. sniping outside of adrenalin rush is possible, but considerably harder because hits taken will mess your aim.

infiltrator's time dilation is always enabled when zooming in, but the cooldown of the damage boosting ability cloak is nearly twice as long as adrenalin rush and is more difficult to use because of enemies often taking cover when activated.

so on the paper the soldier has a better damage output, but in reality the majority of the enemies in the game are standard mooks that can be oneshotted with the widow without any use of an active power, so adrenalin's bonus damage is mostly wasted overkill. infiltrators can line oneshots with a "hard cooldown" of the reload speed of the widow, while soldiers have to wait 3 seconds for AR to cool down, if they aren't played by people with exceptionel good aim.

conclusion: a soldier is better damagewise against elite enemies, which are a minority of the enemies ingame, while infiltrators exel against the majority of the standard mooks. thus the infiltrator is the better sniper.

but that's of course only one side of the medal^^. if you compare them outside of the purely sniping department, soldiers have access to the overpowered mattock while retaining the widow, while infiltrators must stick to the (in this case) inferior locust.

all in all the infiltrator is the slighty better sniper with 2 additionel active powers resulting in more versatility, while the soldier is the vastly better, but more monotone damage dealer.

(sorry for bad english and of course only my opinion.)

Modifié par ahgchyhn, 16 avril 2011 - 08:15 .

[ExFalsoQuodlibet]

Tactical Cloak gets comparatively better as you turn up the difficulty.

[Fiery Phoenix]

While I find myself liking both alright, I actually have a preference for the Widow Soldier. It just has a lot more take-no-prisoners kickass to it.

[jasonsantanna]

As a player that has played both, I prefer the soldier not for the widow but as a cqc soldier , I've played as a widow soldier and it was fun, but just enjoy the cqc, I use to think the infiltrator was boring on ME1 ,so I never finished my play thur with him, but tried it out in ME2 , and I have to say it rocked , cloak and incinerate with widow I could not be stopped , it was an easier play thur than with any of my soldiers on insanity , but my heart is with the soldier though,I play soldier like I would play my vanguard up close and personal, but i have to say i did that with my infiltrator to on certain missions I would sneak up on enemies and elbow them and then blast them with a hand cannon.
I think its ones play style yeah the soldier can get boring if you play him/her the same way all the time , I snipe large groups switch to rifle thin them out move in with shotty or hand cannon to fin.
I got bored with my Sentinel , the tech shield is freaking invincible, so I stopped playing for a bit and did a soldier play thur with the avenger as my main weapon , wont get bored with that .

[The Spamming Troll]

stasis as a bonus power makes the adept obsolete.

truth.

[lazuli]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

stasis as a bonus power makes the adept obsolete.

truth.

I see you've brought your ax to grind.

[termokanden]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

stasis as a bonus power makes the adept obsolete.

truth.

Not really what this thread is about. Also: no

[vorianxavier]

Definitely agree with those who like cloaking. Not only is sniping enemies point blank and confusing the hell out of them incredibly fun, you can sometimes bypass fights if you're tired of combat by cloaking and running past the enemies.