136 réponses à ce sujet

[billy the squid]

Mad-Max90 wrote...

Wait the post before I the one i said this^ to, that's what I was agreeing with, to the other person, they were completely justified buying a game blindly because of what the previous game did, the majority of consumers do this, but I guess your right as well

I do agree with you, based on the original (although the demo made me a bit iffy, i was unsure if it was representative of the whole game) DA 2 was the first game I have ever pre ordered... big mistake, as for waiting for youtube playthroughs and wider reviews its something I will be doing even on ME 3 after the DA 2 debacle.

[jaybee93]

-Skorpious- wrote...

jaybee93 wrote...

-Skorpious- wrote...

jaybee93 wrote...

I also don't understand people who say their negativity is targeted at Bioware to make future games better. It seems much more targeted at DA fans (labeled "fanboys," inexplicably) because people are horrified that anyone might enjoy a game they don't like.

If you can point out one instance in which I've done so I'll agree with you. 

In which you've done what? Targeted fanboys? I haven't actually been paying attention to your posts so I kind of can't... Hi, nice to meet you?

My post was...a tad excessive (and rude). I just dislike the thought of all the "negative" posters on this board being unfairly labeled as jerks who hate the fact people enjoy DA2.

While I can't speak for everyone, my posts are directed at Bioware's shockingly weak (if any) attempt at weaving both the plot and the character of Hawke together in an intelligent and enjoyable fashion. For example - was the player actively involved in Hawke's rise to power? Or were the events outside of the players hands? 

Ah, yeah. There's a lot of fair criticism about the game and some people are understandably upset, particularly if they were expecting something they did not get. Not everyone who posts criticism is a jerk, obviously. Some of the best debates have been about aspects people weren't sure if they enjoyed.

I think part of the problem with the interaction between people who did not enjoy it and people who did, is that you can't really debate some aspects of enjoying it. You say it was a weak attempt, someone else says they liked what they did. There's no way for both to be right, and both aren't wrong. You can't convince someone they enjoyed the game, and you can't convince someone else they didn't. And regardless of intention, constant negativity wears on people.

But that's the internet for you.

[Mad-Max90]

Yes everyone who lurks on the Internet is just waiting for you turn your head so we can eat your babies and kill your dreams while riding on an undead unicorn, I don't mind if people like the game but don't say people who don't like the game are not fans of the series, you are right in saying all of our opinions are just that, opinions, but don't insult others because they have a different opinion than your own that's all I ask

[bigSarg]

I personally love Bioware but hate EA, I was disappointed with DA2 but it does have some redeeming qualities about it, I believe that the only reason it was a disappointment( to me anyways) was because of EA not Bioware, I personally love the DA series (so far), but if more games resemble this one in the future it will certainly hurt my respect for the series and I won't rush out and buy the next one. This game just seemed so rushed and unfinished and I hold EA responsible for that.

For those that totally loved the game-I'm happy for you and hope you get many hours of enjoyment from it. No Dev team can please everybody all the time, there will always be lovers and haters of any game that comes out, it's all a matter of personal opinion and preference. Everyone is allowed to express their personal opinions or forums like these wouldn't exist, it would be nice though if we could keep posts civil and respectful, but I know that will never happen.

[jaybee93]

Mad-Max90 wrote...

Yes everyone who lurks on the Internet is just waiting for you turn your head so we can eat your babies and kill your dreams while riding on an undead unicorn, I don't mind if people like the game but don't say people who don't like the game are not fans of the series, you are right in saying all of our opinions are just that, opinions, but don't insult others because they have a different opinion than your own that's all I ask

Who are you talking to?

[Mad-Max90]

Why you jay, you knew it must be about your comment about the Internet, I was just making light of it I meant no harm only fun

[Mad-Max90]

I also didn't mean to say that you directly were attacking others, I meant that for everyone I was merely emphasizing what you stated as it is a good rule to follow, but after reading my post it did seem I targeted you that was not my intention

[Ayanko]

My Dragon Age II is killing me
I must confess, I still believe (In Bioware)
When I'm not playing origins I lose my mind
Give me a sign
Hit me baby one more time

I suck at being serious today.

Modifié par Ayanko, 16 avril 2011 - 04:14 .

[jaybee93]

Mad-Max90 wrote...

I also didn't mean to say that you directly were attacking others, I meant that for everyone I was merely emphasizing what you stated as it is a good rule to follow, but after reading my post it did seem I targeted you that was not my intention

No worries. I kinda figured it was to me... but then I didn't understand why you said I'd insulted people. I'm usually so diplomatic!

[jaybee93]

Ayanko wrote...

My Dragon Age II is killing me
I must confess, I still believe (In Bioware)
When I'm not playing origins I lose my mind
Give me a sign
Hit me baby one more time

I suck at being serious today.

Yet you made your point in a much more entertaining way than most.

[Merced652]

for my part i trash the game in the spoiler section too!

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

Mad-Max90 wrote...

I'm sorry I'm typing on my iPhone right now, let me clear it up for you.

Most people who are criticizing the game, don't hate the franchise and we don't want to see the series fail.

So what gives you the godlike power to know why we post criticizing posts?

You would do yourself a service if you did not start a thread to complain about people complaining about the way the franchise is going.

Is that good enough for ya, you pretentious $@*^

I realize that. But unfortunately, those type of people seems to be in the minority also. Because I seriously lost count of how many hate posts or threads I saw from people who want bioware to fail, declare that every single game bioware will come up with will be a piece of ****, say they will never buy another bioware game again, saying bioware can go to hell, insulting fans of bioware and etc. 

And it also seems like people who actually like DA2 or bioware are automatically labeled as "trolls". 

[Dragoonlordz]

Accept the game for what it is, one that didn't live up to the quality people were expecting for a Bioware title and/or as a successor to DAO. They owe us nothing, but we do have our own minds and money so see what they do with the DLC and decide if want it or not based on the quality of it or if wish to play it.

If DA2 is not something you liked (as with me) then your free to resell it and get something else, while you won't get as much money back thats just life. In the meantime suggest improvements/criticism based of what your opinion of the game was and hope they listen and resolve it in the next attempt.
 
If they release 2 for 1 type deals or give away freebies that is up to them but not us as customers, as such I find this thread insulting to my intelligence. I would normally skip over ones that I dislike but this one pushed it too far, with a lack of common sense approach in concept to making it.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 16 avril 2011 - 06:30 .

[Mad-Max90]

I will admit I hate people who bash bioware for the sake of doing it but, some of the people labeled as bashing are posting good insight as to why they dislike the game, and those people are also called trolls by people who love the game this whole debate is just one giant double edged sword, no one is winning

[LyndseyCousland]

Ayanko wrote...

My Dragon Age II is killing me
I must confess, I still believe (In Bioware)
When I'm not playing origins I lose my mind
Give me a sign
Hit me baby one more time

I suck at being serious today.

You, my dear, win an internet!

[TUHD]

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...And it also seems like people who actually like DA2 or bioware are automatically labeled as "trolls".

No that's not frigging true. HOWEVER. Those who ARE being called trolls are those who are calling critics crybabies and such. And amongst the most fervent defenders of DAII, it's sadly enough all too common to do that. Those who don't like the game have got a lot of flaws too, and there are quite a few trolls among them - but criticizing people personally who are criticizing the game, brings us nowhere, leads us only to flame wars and to the massive amount of threads of those who don't like the game, either because John Epler (yes, I am looking at you John. Your company makes a game, asks 50 Euros for it in the state it is/was, then it should be able to take some criticism towards the project leaders) locks the threads down 'because it criticizes Bioware too much', or it gets flamed up by pro-DAII people.
(Of course, there also have been trolls who just for the heck of it flamed up the 'love DAII'-threads. I dislike trolls in general, just saying)

As for DLC, I hope they give some sign first that they understand the problems of a rather big part of the fans with the game, instead of ignoring us and/or insulting us in interviews.

[Mad-Max90]

^^Well spoken my anonymous friend^^

[Ariella]

-Skorpious- wrote...

Interviewer: "Reception to DA2 has been very mixed. Can you elaborate on the situation please?"
Mike Laidlaw: "Does it matter? We've sold copies faster than Origins did, so everybody else can get over themselves and learn to like our game."
Me: Really Mike? Really?!

The above comment (slightly paraphrased) is why I worry about DA3.

Slightly paraphrased doesn't cut it. If you tried this kind of thing in a history or english class you'd get your butt booted. If you're going to make an argument use the exact darn quote in context with reference to the original work.

[-Skorpious-]

Ariella wrote...

-Skorpious- wrote...

Interviewer: "Reception to DA2 has been very mixed. Can you elaborate on the situation please?"
Mike Laidlaw: "Does it matter? We've sold copies faster than Origins did, so everybody else can get over themselves and learn to like our game."
Me: Really Mike? Really?!

The above comment (slightly paraphrased) is why I worry about DA3.

Slightly paraphrased doesn't cut it. If you tried this kind of thing in a history or english class you'd get your butt booted. If you're going to make an argument use the exact darn quote in context with reference to the original work.

I made a mistake. it was Ray, not Mike who I "paraphrased". Sorry Mike. Anyways, here it is -

*interviewer asks about the games mixed feedback*

Muzyka: "It’s been polarizing to see the feedback, frankly. There’s been a lot of people that have been really delighted about what we’ve provided in Dragon Age II. People rating it 90 to 100 and really being happy with all the features and the focus on action intensity and the voiced protagonist and the way the story unfolds with the framed narrative and a lot of the things that are quite innovative and different.

There are other people that were expecting more Dragon Age Origins and more of the spiritual successor to Baldur’s Gate. Some of them have expressed disappointment. It’s something we really take seriously. We’re taking that feedback to heart and we’re seeing what we can do to continue to surprise and delight our fans in the future.

We’ve actually attracted a lot of new people to the franchise. Dragon Age II is selling faster than Dragon Age Origins. It’s probably part because it’s drawing a lot of new fans in. And that’s exciting to us. But our core fans are really important to us. I can’t emphasize that enough. They helped get us to where we are today. They’re the core of what we do, and we want to make sure we’re making games that satisfy them."

Ray basically avoided the subject of negative feedback. In fact, he never even properly addressed it - all he did was go on and on about how successful DA2 is. 

As such, I interpreted Ray's statements in the following way - "Sorry old fanbase, we have a new one now who likes DA2. If you can't learn to like DA2, then too bad."

Modifié par -Skorpious-, 16 avril 2011 - 09:34 .

[Ariella]

-Skorpious- wrote...

Ariella wrote...

-Skorpious- wrote...

Interviewer: "Reception to DA2 has been very mixed. Can you elaborate on the situation please?"
Mike Laidlaw: "Does it matter? We've sold copies faster than Origins did, so everybody else can get over themselves and learn to like our game."
Me: Really Mike? Really?!

The above comment (slightly paraphrased) is why I worry about DA3.

Slightly paraphrased doesn't cut it. If you tried this kind of thing in a history or english class you'd get your butt booted. If you're going to make an argument use the exact darn quote in context with reference to the original work.

I made a mistake. it was Ray, not Mike who I "paraphrased". Sorry Mike. Anyways, here it is -

*interviewer asks about the games mixed feedback*

Muzyka: "It’s been polarizing to see the feedback, frankly. There’s been a lot of people that have been really delighted about what we’ve provided in Dragon Age II. People rating it 90 to 100 and really being happy with all the features and the focus on action intensity and the voiced protagonist and the way the story unfolds with the framed narrative and a lot of the things that are quite innovative and different.

There are other people that were expecting more Dragon Age Origins and more of the spiritual successor to Baldur’s Gate. Some of them have expressed disappointment. It’s something we really take seriously. We’re taking that feedback to heart and we’re seeing what we can do to continue to surprise and delight our fans in the future.

We’ve actually attracted a lot of new people to the franchise. Dragon Age II is selling faster than Dragon Age Origins. It’s probably part because it’s drawing a lot of new fans in. And that’s exciting to us. But our core fans are really important to us. I can’t emphasize that enough. They helped get us to where we are today. They’re the core of what we do, and we want to make sure we’re making games that satisfy them."

Ray basically avoided the subject of negative feedback. In fact, he never even properly addressed it - all he did was go on and on about how successful DA2 is. 

As such, I interpreted Ray's statements in the following way - "Sorry old fanbase, we have a new one now who likes DA2. If you can't learn to like DA2, then too bad."

Again, where'd the quote come from. It's seems a great deal more genunine than what you paraphrased before, so I believe you when you say it's legit, I just wantn to be able to read the entire interview and so I have context. Feel free to blame the historian in me for that.

However he does provide an answer )about the negative criticisms in the second paragraph, that they are taking what's been said to heart and trying to find a so theres's something for both newcomers and old timers. I doubt he's going to acknowledge the "Fire (x)" threads or anything else.

Also if you want to go back and take a look at some of the interviews that came prior to release, I think you'll see Laidlaw comments a lot of the things that got changed: art, revamped combat etc, did come from old timers giving feedback on DAO. Hell, one of the biggest complains I've seen on DAO until DA2 came out was that the visuals were generic "rip offs" of LotR, or Song of Ice and Fire or Wheel of Time etc etc. I didn't agree then, as I kinda liked the watercolor look for Fereldan. However, enough people repeated that, so Laidlaw and Darrah and the rest of the leads got together and tried to figure out a way to do it better. Maybe they went to far in the other direction, I don't know as I enjoy DA 2.

One of the big things we PC gamers need to learn is that we console gamers (yes I'm both) are going to stay and the console market is a viable one for Bioware to try and tap for revenue. I'm playing on both my laptop (which saved my sanity while I was stuck in the hospital with supposed heart trouble... also playing DA2 on Dilauded is wacky), and my Xbox and the evenness between systems is wonderful compared to DAO PC va DAO Xbox, mostly due to the fact that the Xbox was farmed out, and in many ways a lot hard to judge things like how much XP one had for level since one couldn't mouse over the bubbling green bar that looked more at home in a Doc Horrible blog . All this combined with the admittedly unconventional storytelling technique frustrated some people, and I not only respect that but understand it. But the best way to make a better DA3 is to give logical criticism, as detailed as you can, without engaging the emotions. That's what's going to make things better, because these guys do listen. DA 2 really is testament to that, though many people don't see it right now.

I also apologize for snapping. I really am an academic at heart, and quotation and correct attribution is a huge deal in my little world so it's a hot button, but I shouldn't have been so snappish. I apologize.

[NedPepper]

Sabriana wrote...

@ nedpepper

Oh my heavens. Please don't do this, it'll lead to no good. Please don't lump all the critics into the "unreasonable screamer' crowd. That's simply not true. There are also true biodrones around who will defend bioware with the most silliest of arguments. However, I refuse to lump those silly people together with the people who derived genuine enjoyment out of DA 2.

It's not 'fashionable' to be critical of a game that delivered a devastatingly disappointed feeling in many? What kind of thing is that to say? Angry mob group think? Have you checked the forums at all? Yes, I agree, there are those who lash about wildly being more than ridiculous with their bile and hatred, but the majority is quite calm and contructive. The biodrones and the unreasonable nay-sayers are recognizable, that's how low their number is overall.

You ascribe motives to the critics simply out of thin air without the backing of facts. I would never even dream of doing that for the supporters. If you like DA 2 then more power to you. I wish I could with all my heart. I don't dislike it to begin with, I think it's a 'meh' game that is way overpriced. After resigning to the fact that it is not a true RPG, but an action/h&s hybrid with a few RPG elements, I even got some fun out of it. I liked Act II very much.

And yes, I would most likely still buy it, but not for 56 euros. I would wait until it landed in the bargain bin. If I hadn't put blind faith into the company, and engaged in immature rush-buying behavior, I would not be so severely disappointed. I am partially to blame. I am an adult, and I didn't act like one. I will in the future though.

I think it is fashionable to bash this game.  There are a lot of people trying to create memes that Dragon Age 2 = FAIL.  I do read many threads in this forum.  Lately, I just hear the same snarky crap, so I tend to stick to the forums where people have actually played the game.  The Quest and Character forum.

I'm not singling say, you, out.  But, be honest.  There's a lot of negative sniping that gives Bioware nothing to build on.  What I want is a Dragon Age 3 that MOST OF US can be happy with.  But to do that, you have to construct criticism in a way that can be digested.  For the most part, I don't see that.

I'm glad you have specific qualms.  You give reasons.   But the people attacking Mike Laidlaw and saying he is insulting the fans is ridiculous.  He is not attacking the core audience.  He simply had a vision for an different kind of RPG and he believes in it.  As an artist myself, I will defend my actions until someone writes criticism I can take seriously.

[NedPepper]

SirLogical wrote...

nedpepper wrote...

It's funny neppakyo posted in this thread. Because you can always count on him/her whenever there's something negative to say. Tell me how that is not trying to bury this franchise? There's a clear diffrerence in being disappointed in a game, and posting in every thread how much you think this game is a giant "turd".

Those of you offended by this post might want to think about those of us who LIKE the game having everything we say negated by certain posters in EVERY THREAD. I can only look at that as a number of things:

1) Your disappointment has consumed you to point being obsessively bitter

2) It's become "cool" to bash the game. Hey, someone mention the AWESOME BUTTON. We've only seen the joke....everywhere. It's sheep mentality.

3) You are the type of person who looks for flaws in everything.

Whatever the case, why must those of us who look at video games as an escape from the DOOM and GLOOM of our culture and want to come to a board to talk about playing a game they enjoy, have a horde of trollspawn flank you with their cynical bitterness.

I honestly don't understand why Bioware would WANT people to register their games here. This place has all of the joy of a cemetery. By this point, if you don't like the game and you're not going to buy any DLC or, as some of you have said, DA 3, when do you finally say to yourself, "There's more games out there."

Firstly, I'm sorry if you think our culture is 'doom and gloom'. I happen to rather like it myself.

Secondly, there is a reason the awesome button is everywhere. Whenever I see an arrow cause a corpse to detonate as if it had dynamite inside, I am reminded of the 'press a button, something awesome happens' comment. And since combat is a significant part of this game, such a comment is not going to just tuck itself away under the carpet and hide.

Thirdly, don't generalise. Its stupid and invalidates the rest of your points. The vast majority of those making who come on these boards, and complain about DA:2, do so because they love the series and are just disappointed. I for one will purchase all the DLC and the next game.

Finally, you complain about the "horde of trollspawn", yet you fail to mention that a lot of the trolls are people who come on the forums and, like yourself, lay into those who are simply trying to voice their opinion. It is angry, somewhat childish posts like the one quoted that fill this forum with "doom and gloom". I admit that some of those complaining about the game could do so in a more adult manner, but as you show, you are no better than them.

/rant.

The fact that you seem to be taking it personally invalidates everything you just posted.  I was talking about a certain type of poster.  I'm not sure why you WANTED to be grouped in with them.  I'm not saying everyone who was disappointed with the game is WRONG.  I'm talking about the people who offer nothing but snarky insults toward the people who like the game.

There was a thread the other day where a woman had played Dragon Age 2 first and then played origins.  She liked DA 2 more.  It's not a big deal.  You can like either one or like them both, as I do.  But she was attacked within minutes with people calling her an idiot.  That's the tone of this board.  Maybe you're not one of those people, so why group yourself in with them?

And I'll be honest.  I come here to talk about the game.  And, quite frankly, I always leave irritated.  So, there's a feeling to fight back.  You can only watch people being bullied until you feel like you should act.

[NedPepper]

Serpieri Nei wrote...

nedpepper wrote...

Mad-Max90 wrote...

^that's the point in complaining about things we didn't like in the game isn't it, that in hopes they will do a better job on the next one, it has nothing to do with hating bioware, it has everything to do in hating some of the changes they made that broke the franchise

There are ways to giving constructive criticism and then there is just negative, whiny noise.  I'm not pointing a finger directly at you.  I'm pointing a finger at the majority of this forum.  How is Bioware supposed to FIND what people like and don't like in the game when they have to stroll through hundreds of pages of "This game is for dumbed down console users."?  Or "There's no story!" Or "Hit the Awesome button to kill ninjas."   If you've played the game, there's a story.  You might not like it, but saying Bioware just ripped you off and they should be ashamed of themselves is not telling them anything they can use when making DA 3.

I have a buddy who is playing the game right now.  He loves it.  In fact, he likes it more than the first game. He said he was thinking about coming to the forums to talk about it.  I told him to STAY AWAY.

The sad thing is this angry mob group think.  By himself, my buddy loves the game.  I think a lot of people actually like this game a lot more than they want to admit.  But it's not fashionable.  And when you dwell on the negative....you'd be amazed how much that can color your thoughts in general. 

Again, you can hate this game.  That's fine.  I don't care one way or another.  I'm just tired of the condescending attitude that IF you like this game, you're an idiot.  Pick a thread at random in the General Discussion forum and you'll see that. 

People are quite aware of how to give constructive criticism, and their is a lot of it. To disregard it as  whinny noise simple shows that you have closed your mind and are unwilling to see things objectively. Bioware has created a
few threads where the majority of the criticism is being collected. Also I hate to break it to you but stream lining,
weak plot, awesome button, and ninja's are valid complaints. If you wish to dismiss these that’s your prerogative but telling people their criticism won't be used is not.

Just as there are people who like the game, there are those that find it to be mediocre and others who feel it’s the worst game in ages. So who's right here? The answer is simple, we all are. I do find it interesting that you believe hating something is more fashionable then praising it, and that those who dwell on the positive are just as susceptible to having their thoughts colored.

You can love the game; no one is stopping you from doing that except yourself. And try not to hide behind a shield of indifference because it’s clear that you do care or you wouldn’t be posting. And just as you’re tired of the condescending attitude. People are just as tired of the Holy Crusade to rid the land of the infidels. How dare we speak out against Bioware.

I'm not sure we're on the same page here.  I'm fine in enjoying the game.  I never said different.  And there's no Holy Crusade.  And I find it amusing that there's some feeling of rebellion attacking a game developer.  I just...don't get that.

[NedPepper]

LyndseyCousland wrote...

nedpepper wrote...

This board has become a lot of DOOM and GLOOM.  It's become depressing.  For those of us who love the Dragon Age franchise, give us a sign of things to come.  That the negative backlash from very loud and very busy posters hasn't put one of my favorite franchises into the grave they think it deserves to be in with.  For those of us who like DA 2 just as much as DA: O, we just want a sign that there will be some kind of DLC or another Gaider novel.

Because this place has sucked the joy and fun out of the gaming experience.  It feels like people are mourning some imaginary thing they lost and the rest of us are just left to think: Is Bioware giving in to this?  I hope not.

Melodramatic much?

I'm glad you decided to offer so much to this conversation and then just agree with two other people....

[Mad-Max90]

They added what they wanted, don't take things said about dragon age 2 so personally, we are not out to make people who love the game cry, we actually do fear the way not just origins but the genre itself is going, it's like wrpgs are endangered and laidlaw is sitting with his elephant gun with his finger on the trigger waiting to pull and kill a beaten down animal that was one of the last of it's kind, that's how I see it anyway, I do respect your opinion though, I don't want disrespect anyone who enjoyed it, like I said I'm happy some of the players here actually enjoyed themselves with this game, I don't want to take that from you, what I do want to do is raise concern for a very real possibility that is currently happening, I know you don't agree with me, I'm not asking you to, but that's just me