251 réponses à ce sujet

[AdmiralCheez]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

*explains the entire point of playing renegade*

(Also, your avatar lures me into threads I have been avoiding. Rrrrrr.)

That pretty much sums it up.  The ultimate reward for playing renegade is being a badass.  The red text is just more fun.  So you ****** people off, who cares?  You can blow their heads off if they get in your face anyway.

And keep in mind, kiddies--all the stuff that truly detracts from your gaming experience is usually the result of you not having enough charmidate points and/or doing something incredibly stupid outside the restrictions of the dialogue wheel.  Or, you know, just skipping content.

(All power and glory to monocle cat.  Like hypnotoad, only more charmingly devious.)

[KotOREffecT]

You see my Renegade Shepards face full of scars. That's win, right there. We win.

[GodWood]

hex23 wrote...

GodWood wrote...
You're releasing information that condemns a war criminal for his actions and proves Tali's innocence.
It's perfectly justifiable and not d*ckish at all.

Funnily enough it's one of the paragon choices that gets her exiled.

You're making it seem like her not getting exiled is the primary objective. It isn't. Job 1 is earning her Loyalty, which the d*ck move Renegade option makes impossible.

The objective of the mission is to prove Tali's innocence and releasing the information on her father does just that.
You need to remember that in the context of the game's universe the loyalty mechanic doesn't exist.

And regardless of your justification for handing over the info, a friend....or at the very least a team mate....asked you not to. Again, if you're willing to betray their trust, what would you do to other people? It doesn't really paint you as a trustworthy leader.

In your opinion.

[KainrycKarr]

jbblue05 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

I don't see how anybody can beat the Reapers, be they Renegade or Paragon.

Also I agree with GodWood about Tali's trial. Frankly I think the Renegade/Paragon options there should have been reversed. A Paragon would want to do what is right whether it pisses Tali off or not. A Renegade however just want's her focused on the mission so he wouldn't care.

I think the Paragon and renegeade decisions are correct.

Paragon your doing a favor for your friend just to make them happy which is selfish

Renegade your thinking about all the Quarians  not just Tali.  THe Quarians will not win the war with the Geth, so you try to install fear and steer their attention towards the Reapers

Umm, you can steer their attention towards the Reapers and away from war with the Geth without giving them the information.

Doing something, for a friend.....is selfish?


lolwut

[AdmiralCheez]

GodWood wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...
Renegades have the better awesome button.

*hawke trying to be awesome*

See?  ReneShep's so cool, even Laidlaw Hawke wants to be him!

[GodWood]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...
*explains the entire point of playing renegade*
(Also, your avatar lures me into threads I have been avoiding. Rrrrrr.)

That pretty much sums it up.  The ultimate reward for playing renegade is being a badass.  The red text is just more fun.  So you ****** people off, who cares?  You can blow their heads off if they get in your face anyway.

This is a common paragon opinion of why renegades play renegade.
But as someone who actually is a renegade I must say that is not my reasoning at all for choosing to play as one.

[jbblue05]

Saphra Deden wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

I think the Paragon and renegeade decisions are correct.

Paragon your doing a favor for your friend just to make them happy which is selfish

Renegade your thinking about all the Quarians  not just Tali.  THe Quarians will not win the war with the Geth, so you try to install fear and steer their attention towards the Reapers

A reasonable way to look at it, but then why is this reversed on Garrus and Zaeed's loyalty missions? Suddenly doing what your squadmate wants is Renegade and telling them how to run their lives is Paragon. The same with Mordin and Miranda when it comes to Niket/Maelon.

In any case, with Tali's mission my Renegade would have kept the evidence hidden if the Intimidate prompt wasn't available. His goal there was to get Tali ready for the Suicide Mission. Same reason he helped Zaeed despite wanting to rescue the workers.

Killing Vido solves a lot of problems best of all it destabilizes the Blue Suns
Garrus's mission is selfish for Paragons not Renegades
Paragon- even thouigh we kill dozens of mercs a couple minutes ago we can't kill SIdonis because I think its wrong
Renegade- Sure whatever do what you want

[AdmiralCheez]

GodWood wrote...

]This is a common paragon opinion of why renegades play renegade.
But as someone who actually is a renegade I must say that is not my reasoning at all for choosing to play as one.

Well, sure, there's also the more realistic/ruthless mindset that goes with it, but since I don't think that way, this is my excuse.  My brains, they think differently from your brains.

Totally understand the merits/reasoning outside of pure entertainment value, though.  But since OP is paragon, I thought the good ol' "shush, red text = awesome" would be sufficient.

[hex23]

Saphra Deden wrote...

It is not a dick move and as far as Shepard knows what guarantee is there that being exiled won't make Tali unfocused on the mission too? Shepard not letting Tali be exiled, even if it destroys the reputation
of her father, is best for Tali in the long run. When she's older and
more mature she'll realize that.

You're wildly projecting assumptions into the game. I'm talking about facts.

We know for a fact ruining her father's rep makes her unfocused on the mission. Period. She's Unlolyal.

You're asking "what guarantee"...."when she's older"....that doesn't matter. The game spells out in black and white what bothers her.

Hint: It's not her getting exiled. It's you handing over the evidence.

Saphra Deden wrote...

So if your best friend murdered somebody and asked you to hide the body you'd help them? Enjoy your prison sentence.

Shep and Tali don't go to prison if you hide the evidence so the analogy makes zero sense. Lay off the drugs.

[GodWood]

AdmiralCheez wrote...
Totally understand the merits/reasoning outside of pure entertainment value, though.  But since OP is paragon, I thought the good ol' "shush, red text = awesome" would be sufficient.

Got it

Modifié par GodWood, 16 avril 2011 - 06:15 .

[jbblue05]

Saphra Deden wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

Killing Vido solves a lot of problems best of all it destabilizes the Blue Suns

Oh really? Prove it. The only notion of that comes from Zaeed and I think he has an interest in justifying what he did on Zorya.

Frankly I doubt killing Vido will make a damn lick of difference.

Vido was in charge of the Blue Suns.  WIth their leader gone their is going to be a power vaccum.
The Blue Suns will come back to strength but they are weakened now.

If Vido survives  he can focus his attention on SHepard and Zaaed to eliminate a potential future threat.

This was a hard choice for me at first but that AR upgrade sort of tilt the balance in Zaaed's favor

[hex23]

GodWood wrote...
The objective of the mission is to prove Tali's innocence and releasing the information on her father does just that.
You need to remember that in the context of the game's universe the loyalty mechanic doesn't exist.

And regardless of your justification for handing over the info, a friend....or at the very least a team mate....asked you not to. Again, if you're willing to betray their trust, what would you do to other people? It doesn't really paint you as a trustworthy leader.

In your opinion.

The objective isn't to prove her innocence. You need her on your team to fight the Collectors. Hell, she joins your team before the trial even becomes a plot point.

We don't need the game's Loyalty mechanic to spell out why backstabbing someone....a person who you need to be 100% trust worthy, and 100% invested in your ability to lead....is a bad idea. And for the record it's not my opinion. People who backstab other people, aren't trusted. Period. That's Real Life 101.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

GodWood wrote...

]This is a common paragon opinion of why renegades play renegade.
But as someone who actually is a renegade I must say that is not my reasoning at all for choosing to play as one.

Well, sure, there's also the more realistic/ruthless mindset that goes with it, but since I don't think that way, this is my excuse.  My brains, they think differently from your brains.

Totally understand the merits/reasoning outside of pure entertainment value, though.  But since OP is paragon, I thought the good ol' "shush, red text = awesome" would be sufficient.

Also, Devbrains = different from your brains, possibly.

Sometimes I think back to Yahtzee's famous "Captain Picard vs. Dirty Harry" analogy. The ending for Dirty Harry isn't sunshine and rainbows, with everyone offering him hugs and cash and favors. It's him saying "well, I got the job done" and walking away with nothing, essentially. That's why he is so awesome. That is why that movie is considered a flippin classic, while the Star Trek movies are considered, at best, loltastic.

Do I think some things will go better for Renegades than Paragons? Heck yeah. Do I think their ending will necessarily be equally "feelgood?" Hells no. That's why I am so confused about Renegades ire at the result of the saving the Council decision - this darker world is perfect for you to operate in.

In some ways, I think the universe after the Council dies may be a warning - if you keep treating people like this, there may be dark times ahead. Do you really want to tread this (decidedly awesome) path? Think carefully, now. Those dark times may offer you unforeseen opportunity for profit, and vengeance, and badassery, but they will still be dark times.

[twisty77]

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

The Council decision was the more realistic decision, but he did it with malice toward the Council. The Collector base was just a realistic decision.

Personally I chose neutral for the Council and kept the Collector Base.

You can kill the council and then use the Paragon options after you kill the Saren-bot-reaper-thingy. Basically saying that we should restore the council. Then Udina shoots you down, saying that ever since becoming a Spectre, you've become ruthless and all that nonsense. Even if you did it for the right reasons, it doesn't end up that way.

BTW that woould have been a great third option: 1) Save the Council, 2) Kill the Council, stack it with humans, 3) Kill the Council, restore the species in power.

[PMC65]

It is easy making "paragon" choices in the game because it is a game .... If you were standing before a real rachni queen would you let it live? Add having Wrex with you at the time and he reminds you of the history. I loved his comment about bugs writing songs about me ... I am hoping that Bioware doesn't go the "PC/Disneyland" route but has negative Consequences for both the paragon and renegade choices.

[jbblue05]

Saphra Deden wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

Vido was in charge of the Blue Suns.  WIth their leader gone their is going to be a power vaccum.
The Blue Suns will come back to strength but they are weakened now.

Or they'll just get a new leader who is just as or even more ambitious and slimey as Vido.

also a possibility.

But the new leader won't have a personal grudge against Shepard and Zaaed

[jbblue05]

Saphra Deden wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

But the new leader won't have a personal grudge against Shepard and Zaaed

Vido wasn't the one with the grudge. He's a successful man with a lot of power, he doesn't give two-****s about Zaeed.

Zaaed was close to killing Vido. I'm sure Vido is going to get paranoid and want to eliminate a threat.

The new leader will be thankful of Zaaed and Shepard's actions for allowing their rise to power

[Seboist]

twisty77 wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

The Council decision was the more realistic decision, but he did it with malice toward the Council. The Collector base was just a realistic decision.

Personally I chose neutral for the Council and kept the Collector Base.

You can kill the council and then use the Paragon options after you kill the Saren-bot-reaper-thingy. Basically saying that we should restore the council. Then Udina shoots you down, saying that ever since becoming a Spectre, you've become ruthless and all that nonsense. Even if you did it for the right reasons, it doesn't end up that way.

BTW that woould have been a great third option: 1) Save the Council, 2) Kill the Council, stack it with humans, 3) Kill the Council, restore the species in power.

It'd be nice if there were more story paths in the series like:

Pro-Human dominance Paragon: Wants to promote human dominance through peaceful and lawful ways.

Pro-Alien Renegade: Rallies the non-council races (Krogan,Vorcha,Batarian,etc) against the Council.