251 réponses à ce sujet

[jbblue05]

I don't understand why Paragons think they will have much more allies.

Even if you saved the Council in ME2 the COuncil tells the Alliance to screw off and solve their own human problem.
Whhich tells me the COuncil will help the Alliance if it effects them also. So the enemy of my enemy is an ally.

The Rachni is in favor of Paragons but something tells me they will be bittersweet in the fight against the reapers.

Being nice to Tali doesn't equal QUarian army nor does being mean to Tali equal Quarians joins Reapers.
I think the Quarians will be useless but something tells ,me they rather live than become Reapers smoothies

By popular demand Cerberus is now your enemy, now Cerberus the only people who were fighting the Reapers are trying to kill the leader of the Reapers demise.

If what Legion says is true the Geth don't like the Reapers and will fight them regardless if you rewrote or destroy.

The Krogan are no use in space warfare and they will probably focus on protecting their only planet. Not to mention the Krogan are probably in the middle of a civil/feudal war thanks to our pal Wrex.

But maybe the Batarians find out Paragon Shepard tried to send a warning message to the coloies in Arrival and they will join Shpard's army. while Renegades are SOL

Modifié par jbblue05, 17 avril 2011 - 03:06 .

[Elliot Slack]

or TIM might try to kill you with reaper tech, I think he is capable of doing bad things to people that give him things

[eternalnightmare13]

masseffectexpert94 wrote...

Stukovkh wrote...

I actually just started another playthrough as a renegade shep... I was actually surprised to see the options were more get to the point and or get this sh*t done rather than I'm just an evil ******... Not to mention renegade or not Shepard is always a good public speaker, he makes people follow him through inspiration or intimidation, so irregardless of how he has been, he will find away to find allies in the coming fight.

renegade means bad ass and right to the point not evil

True, espeically in ME1 the Renegade is more like Dirty Harry from the Clint Eastwood movies.
In ME2 this continues, but the only notable exception is the deal with Samara.  Allowing Samara to die, and taking a serial rapist/killer on board doesn't fit the idea of the Renegade being 'bad ass and straight to the point'.

[GodWood]

eternalnightmare13 wrote...
True, espeically in ME1 the Renegade is more like Dirty Harry from the Clint Eastwood movies.
In ME2 this continues, but the only notable exception is the deal with Samara.  Allowing Samara to die, and taking a serial rapist/killer on board doesn't fit the idea of the Renegade being 'bad ass and straight to the point'.

Samara intends to kill a renegade Shepard after the suicide mission - she's a threat.
Plus one could argue Samara is just as reckless and dangerous as her serial killer daughter.

[GodWood]

eternalnightmare13 wrote...
Using Tali's trial as an example I would say that the Renegade option isn't about being a d*ck, but a direct 'cut to the chase' move. Rather then wrangle through the red tape and pseudo politics of Quarian's floating trailer park the Renegade lays out all the dirty laundry of Tali's dad and proves her innocence. From a storyline the trial isn't about getting her loyalty it's about proving her innocence. Her loyalty is a game mechanic. If you RP (this is role play game, eh?) then you shouldn't even be worrying about game mechanics. I don't. Tali's in a highly emotional and unstable place during the trial and can't think of things objectively. The Renegade doesn't give a rat's ass about all that - he/she is a soldier that bludgeons through burearcy (I can bludgeon pretty good a la Noveria) and like all soldiers doesn't allow his/her emotions get involved in the way.

Pretty much agree with all this. 

A player with high Renegade points may have less options and suffer more casualities - lose more systems to the Reapers etc but in the end they can still 'win'.

But not this.

[Black_Arrow141]

The end justifies the means. That's the renegade way of thinking. Simple as that.

[Viperlord 21]

GodWood wrote...

eternalnightmare13 wrote...
True, espeically in ME1 the Renegade is more like Dirty Harry from the Clint Eastwood movies.
In ME2 this continues, but the only notable exception is the deal with Samara.  Allowing Samara to die, and taking a serial rapist/killer on board doesn't fit the idea of the Renegade being 'bad ass and straight to the point'.

Samara intends to kill a renegade Shepard after the suicide mission - she's a threat.
Plus one could argue Samara is just as reckless and dangerous as her serial killer daughter.

Unless I'm mistaken though, Samara doesn't threaten Renegade Shepard until after her loyalty mission, so without metagaming, that's not really a reason to kill her.

[Dean_the_Young]

Viperlord 21 wrote...

GodWood wrote...

eternalnightmare13 wrote...
True, espeically in ME1 the Renegade is more like Dirty Harry from the Clint Eastwood movies.
In ME2 this continues, but the only notable exception is the deal with Samara.  Allowing Samara to die, and taking a serial rapist/killer on board doesn't fit the idea of the Renegade being 'bad ass and straight to the point'.

Samara intends to kill a renegade Shepard after the suicide mission - she's a threat.
Plus one could argue Samara is just as reckless and dangerous as her serial killer daughter.

Unless I'm mistaken though, Samara doesn't threaten Renegade Shepard until after her loyalty mission, so without metagaming, that's not really a reason to kill her.

In her own recruitment she says that she 'may' hold you accountable after the mission for anything 'dishonorable' you do during the period of her employ.

[Viperlord 21]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Viperlord 21 wrote...

GodWood wrote...

eternalnightmare13 wrote...
True, espeically in ME1 the Renegade is more like Dirty Harry from the Clint Eastwood movies.
In ME2 this continues, but the only notable exception is the deal with Samara.  Allowing Samara to die, and taking a serial rapist/killer on board doesn't fit the idea of the Renegade being 'bad ass and straight to the point'.

Samara intends to kill a renegade Shepard after the suicide mission - she's a threat.
Plus one could argue Samara is just as reckless and dangerous as her serial killer daughter.

Unless I'm mistaken though, Samara doesn't threaten Renegade Shepard until after her loyalty mission, so without metagaming, that's not really a reason to kill her.

In her own recruitment she says that she 'may' hold you accountable after the mission for anything 'dishonorable' you do during the period of her employ.

True, that slipped my mind.

[JKoopman]

jamesp81 wrote...

masseffectexpert94 wrote...

Stukovkh wrote...

I actually just started another playthrough as a renegade shep... I was actually surprised to see the options were more get to the point and or get this sh*t done rather than I'm just an evil ******... Not to mention renegade or not Shepard is always a good public speaker, he makes people follow him through inspiration or intimidation, so irregardless of how he has been, he will find away to find allies in the coming fight.

renegade means bad ass and right to the point not evil

That's what it's supposed to mean.  And, most of the time, it does.  However, there are some renegade decisions that ARE outright evil.  Two I can think of are executing Shiala and executing the Rachni queen.  Those sorts of renegade choices break the morality system.

How is executing Shiala and killing the rachni queen "evil"? Shiala was formerly an indoctrinated servant of Saren; just one more asari commando out of the dozens you've already killed up to that point. The only evidence that she's NOT indoctrinated any longer is that she says she's not. A Renegade Shepard isn't going to chance it out of mercy. He's just going to execute her once he has the information he wants. Granted, I've never done so in any of my playthroughs (even the Renegade one) but I can understand the reasoning for doing so.

As for the rachni queen, her species was the greatest former threat to the galaxy next to the Reapers themselves. They very nearly wiped out all life in the settled galaxy and were only finally stopped by the krogan uplifting. Again, the only assurance Shepard has that the queen wont try to do so again is her word that she wont. A Renegade Shepard isn't going to risk it. Better to eliminate the threat now while he has the chance.

Neither one of those is being "evil". It's just being pragmatic. And, in the case of the later option, I think actually being far more prudent.

eternalnightmare13 wrote...

masseffectexpert94 wrote...

Stukovkh wrote...

I actually just started another playthrough as a renegade shep... I was actually surprised to see the options were more get to the point and or get this sh*t done rather than I'm just an evil ******... Not to mention renegade or not Shepard is always a good public speaker, he makes people follow him through inspiration or intimidation, so irregardless of how he has been, he will find away to find allies in the coming fight.

renegade means bad ass and right to the point not evil

True, espeically in ME1 the Renegade is more like Dirty Harry from the Clint Eastwood movies. In ME2 this continues, but the only notable exception is the deal with Samara.  Allowing Samara to die, and taking a serial rapist/killer on board doesn't fit the idea of the Renegade being 'bad ass and straight to the point'.

I created a thread a while back asking if there was any good reason for choosing Morinth over Samara and it was explained to me that it actually makes sense for a Renegade to side with Morinth because Samara has basically sworn to attack you after the Collector threat is taken care of. She tells you at the conclusion of her recruitment mission that, if you do anything especially dishonest (like executing unarmed civilians, which Renegade Shepard does quite frequently) then her Code will compel her to kill you once her Oath to you is fulfilled. She's also a direct threat to more than half you crew as, between the mercenaries, assassins, mass murderers and members of terrorist organizations, almost everyone aboard the Normandy has crossed her Code at some point. Siding with Morinth is basically taking care of a future threat and replacing it with someone who's only dangerous if Shepard allows himself to "sleep" with her.

I should point out that Samara is no saint herself. She's practically psychopathic with her fervent adherence to her rigid Code. She'll kill someone for no more than what she perceives to be a dishonest act (which could be anything as innocent as stealing a loaf of bread) and has personally threatened to kill police officers for trying to detain her. She even attacked and almost killed Nihilus--a fellow Spectre--while he was on a mission when she witness him kill an unarmed civilian, and who knows how many lives her actions cost by delaying him. She's a constant threat to everyone around her and she doesn't respect any other culture's laws or morals.

I'd say she's as bad as Morinth; except that Morinth didn't choose to be an Ardat-Yakshi.

Modifié par JKoopman, 17 avril 2011 - 09:00 .

[ExtremeOne]

Its really a mute point since in 3 the Paragon Shepard is the default Shepard in the game

[JKoopman]

ExtremeOne wrote...

Its really a mute point since in 3 the Paragon Shepard is the default Shepard in the game

*cough*

You mean a moot point?

Sorry, pet peeve.

Modifié par JKoopman, 17 avril 2011 - 09:16 .

[ExtremeOne]

JKoopman wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

Its really a mute point since in 3 the Paragon Shepard is the default Shepard in the game

*cough*

You mean a moot point?

Sorry, pet peeve.

 


yeah sorry for the typo 

[ArmedChimp]

ExtremeOne wrote...

Its really a mute point since in 3 the Paragon Shepard is the default Shepard in the game

You're basing this of random speculation. People don't know how choices will impact the game.

[ExtremeOne]

ArmedChimp wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

Its really a mute point since in 3 the Paragon Shepard is the default Shepard in the game

You're basing this of random speculation. People don't know how choices will impact the game.

  



The Game Informer clearly indictaes that the paragon ending in 2 is the one that the default Shepard will be. unless they have another way of explaining  it to us renegade players.  I am only going by what the GI  article says since it come from Bioware theme selfs 

[Ultai]

There's going to be a comic just like the PS3 version, so it won't be the default (if there is one). It will most likely have you choose decisions for your fresh ME3 Shep.

Modifié par Ultai, 17 avril 2011 - 10:05 .

[eternalnightmare13]

JKoopman wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

masseffectexpert94 wrote...

Stukovkh wrote...

I actually just started another playthrough as a renegade shep... I was actually surprised to see the options were more get to the point and or get this sh*t done rather than I'm just an evil ******... Not to mention renegade or not Shepard is always a good public speaker, he makes people follow him through inspiration or intimidation, so irregardless of how he has been, he will find away to find allies in the coming fight.

renegade means bad ass and right to the point not evil

That's what it's supposed to mean.  And, most of the time, it does.  However, there are some renegade decisions that ARE outright evil.  Two I can think of are executing Shiala and executing the Rachni queen.  Those sorts of renegade choices break the morality system.

How is executing Shiala and killing the rachni queen "evil"? Shiala was formerly an indoctrinated servant of Saren; just one more asari commando out of the dozens you've already killed up to that point. The only evidence that she's NOT indoctrinated any longer is that she says she's not. A Renegade Shepard isn't going to chance it out of mercy. He's just going to execute her once he has the information he wants. Granted, I've never done so in any of my playthroughs (even the Renegade one) but I can understand the reasoning for doing so.

As for the rachni queen, her species was the greatest former threat to the galaxy next to the Reapers themselves. They very nearly wiped out all life in the settled galaxy and were only finally stopped by the krogan uplifting. Again, the only assurance Shepard has that the queen wont try to do so again is her word that she wont. A Renegade Shepard isn't going to risk it. Better to eliminate the threat now while he has the chance.

Neither one of those is being "evil". It's just being pragmatic. And, in the case of the later option, I think actually being far more prudent.

eternalnightmare13 wrote...

masseffectexpert94 wrote...

Stukovkh wrote...

I actually just started another playthrough as a renegade shep... I was actually surprised to see the options were more get to the point and or get this sh*t done rather than I'm just an evil ******... Not to mention renegade or not Shepard is always a good public speaker, he makes people follow him through inspiration or intimidation, so irregardless of how he has been, he will find away to find allies in the coming fight.

renegade means bad ass and right to the point not evil

True, espeically in ME1 the Renegade is more like Dirty Harry from the Clint Eastwood movies. In ME2 this continues, but the only notable exception is the deal with Samara.  Allowing Samara to die, and taking a serial rapist/killer on board doesn't fit the idea of the Renegade being 'bad ass and straight to the point'.

I created a thread a while back asking if there was any good reason for choosing Morinth over Samara and it was explained to me that it actually makes sense for a Renegade to side with Morinth because Samara has basically sworn to attack you after the Collector threat is taken care of. She tells you at the conclusion of her recruitment mission that, if you do anything especially dishonest (like executing unarmed civilians, which Renegade Shepard does quite frequently) then her Code will compel her to kill you once her Oath to you is fulfilled. She's also a direct threat to more than half you crew as, between the mercenaries, assassins, mass murderers and members of terrorist organizations, almost everyone aboard the Normandy has crossed her Code at some point. Siding with Morinth is basically taking care of a future threat and replacing it with someone who's only dangerous if Shepard allows himself to "sleep" with her.

I should point out that Samara is no saint herself. She's practically psychopathic with her fervent adherence to her rigid Code. She'll kill someone for no more than what she perceives to be a dishonest act (which could be anything as innocent as stealing a loaf of bread) and has personally threatened to kill police officers for trying to detain her. She even attacked and almost killed Nihilus--a fellow Spectre--while he was on a mission when she witness him kill an unarmed civilian, and who knows how many lives her actions cost by delaying him. She's a constant threat to everyone around her and she doesn't respect any other culture's laws or morals.

I'd say she's as bad as Morinth; except that Morinth didn't choose to be an Ardat-Yakshi.

You have some decent points about Morinth/Samara.

Except with Samara the whole Collectors' mission appeals her as a great cause, and she remains focused on that mission - not killing your proverbial bread stealers.  Yeah, she says she 'may' come after Shep for anything he's done she deems immoral or against her code, but not during the middle of a mission.  She may be 'psychotic' but she still adheres to her code and a sense of honor for her word.  

Morinth on the other hand is the emobdiment of chaos and death.  You say she's only a danger if Shep 'sleeps' with her, but the rest of Shep's crew isn't as strong willed as Shep.  Heck, depending on how you play it even Shep almost falls prey to Morinth if weren't for Samara.  Morinth's sociopathic tendancies and no concern for right/wrong makes her far more dangerous IMO.  

The only way I see it being renegade rather then evil or insane  is that Morinth is not hindered by any code.  She's not tied down by what a Renegade Shep would percieve as antiquated and bothersome rules. If some civilans are killed in the process of going after the Collectors' - Morinth isn't going to have an issue with that.  Morinth doesn't care who she kills and that may be dangerous but it's less complicated and political then Samara's Code and that's why it would be Renegade from an RP point of view.  

[ExtremeOne]

Ultai wrote...

There's going to be a comic just like the PS3 version, so it won't be the default (if there is one). It will most likely have you choose decisions for your fresh ME3 Shep.

  


well that explains some of My issues with the GI article 

[Viperlord 21]

eternalnightmare13 wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

masseffectexpert94 wrote...

Stukovkh wrote...

I actually just started another playthrough as a renegade shep... I was actually surprised to see the options were more get to the point and or get this sh*t done rather than I'm just an evil ******... Not to mention renegade or not Shepard is always a good public speaker, he makes people follow him through inspiration or intimidation, so irregardless of how he has been, he will find away to find allies in the coming fight.

renegade means bad ass and right to the point not evil

That's what it's supposed to mean.  And, most of the time, it does.  However, there are some renegade decisions that ARE outright evil.  Two I can think of are executing Shiala and executing the Rachni queen.  Those sorts of renegade choices break the morality system.

How is executing Shiala and killing the rachni queen "evil"? Shiala was formerly an indoctrinated servant of Saren; just one more asari commando out of the dozens you've already killed up to that point. The only evidence that she's NOT indoctrinated any longer is that she says she's not. A Renegade Shepard isn't going to chance it out of mercy. He's just going to execute her once he has the information he wants. Granted, I've never done so in any of my playthroughs (even the Renegade one) but I can understand the reasoning for doing so.

As for the rachni queen, her species was the greatest former threat to the galaxy next to the Reapers themselves. They very nearly wiped out all life in the settled galaxy and were only finally stopped by the krogan uplifting. Again, the only assurance Shepard has that the queen wont try to do so again is her word that she wont. A Renegade Shepard isn't going to risk it. Better to eliminate the threat now while he has the chance.

Neither one of those is being "evil". It's just being pragmatic. And, in the case of the later option, I think actually being far more prudent.

eternalnightmare13 wrote...

masseffectexpert94 wrote...

Stukovkh wrote...

I actually just started another playthrough as a renegade shep... I was actually surprised to see the options were more get to the point and or get this sh*t done rather than I'm just an evil ******... Not to mention renegade or not Shepard is always a good public speaker, he makes people follow him through inspiration or intimidation, so irregardless of how he has been, he will find away to find allies in the coming fight.

renegade means bad ass and right to the point not evil

True, espeically in ME1 the Renegade is more like Dirty Harry from the Clint Eastwood movies. In ME2 this continues, but the only notable exception is the deal with Samara.  Allowing Samara to die, and taking a serial rapist/killer on board doesn't fit the idea of the Renegade being 'bad ass and straight to the point'.

I created a thread a while back asking if there was any good reason for choosing Morinth over Samara and it was explained to me that it actually makes sense for a Renegade to side with Morinth because Samara has basically sworn to attack you after the Collector threat is taken care of. She tells you at the conclusion of her recruitment mission that, if you do anything especially dishonest (like executing unarmed civilians, which Renegade Shepard does quite frequently) then her Code will compel her to kill you once her Oath to you is fulfilled. She's also a direct threat to more than half you crew as, between the mercenaries, assassins, mass murderers and members of terrorist organizations, almost everyone aboard the Normandy has crossed her Code at some point. Siding with Morinth is basically taking care of a future threat and replacing it with someone who's only dangerous if Shepard allows himself to "sleep" with her.

I should point out that Samara is no saint herself. She's practically psychopathic with her fervent adherence to her rigid Code. She'll kill someone for no more than what she perceives to be a dishonest act (which could be anything as innocent as stealing a loaf of bread) and has personally threatened to kill police officers for trying to detain her. She even attacked and almost killed Nihilus--a fellow Spectre--while he was on a mission when she witness him kill an unarmed civilian, and who knows how many lives her actions cost by delaying him. She's a constant threat to everyone around her and she doesn't respect any other culture's laws or morals.

I'd say she's as bad as Morinth; except that Morinth didn't choose to be an Ardat-Yakshi.

You have some decent points about Morinth/Samara.

Except with Samara the whole Collectors' mission appeals her as a great cause, and she remains focused on that mission - not killing your proverbial bread stealers.  Yeah, she says she 'may' come after Shep for anything he's done she deems immoral or against her code, but not during the middle of a mission.  She may be 'psychotic' but she still adheres to her code and a sense of honor for her word.  

Morinth on the other hand is the emobdiment of chaos and death.  You say she's only a danger if Shep 'sleeps' with her, but the rest of Shep's crew isn't as strong willed as Shep.  Heck, depending on how you play it even Shep almost falls prey to Morinth if weren't for Samara.  Morinth's sociopathic tendancies and no concern for right/wrong makes her far more dangerous IMO.  

The only way I see it being renegade rather then evil or insane  is that Morinth is not hindered by any code.  She's not tied down by what a Renegade Shep would percieve as antiquated and bothersome rules. If some civilans are killed in the process of going after the Collectors' - Morinth isn't going to have an issue with that.  Morinth doesn't care who she kills and that may be dangerous but it's less complicated and political then Samara's Code and that's why it would be Renegade from an RP point of view.  

Jkoopman made some excellent points I hadn't really considered in detail, beyond Samara's fanatical adherence to her rigid and hypocritical code mildly annoying me.

I don't think Morinth is much of a threat to the crew however. I don't think she'd settle for anything less than Shepard him/herself, as Shepard is clearly the most "interesting" person on the ship, and from what we know of Morinth, she's clearly not the type to settle for the next best thing. Nobody on the ship equals Shepard's "artistry" on the battlefield. She'd probably also have a hard time propositioning anyone while disguised as Samara. Furthermore, Morinth saw Shepard betray her mother, and is probably smart enough to know that Shepard won't hesitate to kill her if she touches any of the crew.

Modifié par Viperlord 21, 17 avril 2011 - 11:12 .

[Viperlord 21]

Sorry, double post.

Modifié par Viperlord 21, 17 avril 2011 - 11:12 .

[jamesp81]

GodWood wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...
Two I can think of are executing Shiala and executing the Rachni queen.  Those sorts of renegade choices break the morality system.

Just because it makes you uneasy that doesn't mean it's 'evil'.
If you had the option to give the queen to the Council I guarantee they'd have done the same.

The council is capable of great evil.  Just because they're the ruling government doesn't make them good people.

[jamesp81]

jbblue05 wrote...

I don't understand why Paragons think they will have much more allies.

Even if you saved the Council in ME2 the COuncil tells the Alliance to screw off and solve their own human problem.
Whhich tells me the COuncil will help the Alliance if it effects them also. So the enemy of my enemy is an ally.

The Rachni is in favor of Paragons but something tells me they will be bittersweet in the fight against the reapers.

Being nice to Tali doesn't equal QUarian army nor does being mean to Tali equal Quarians joins Reapers.
I think the Quarians will be useless but something tells ,me they rather live than become Reapers smoothies

By popular demand Cerberus is now your enemy, now Cerberus the only people who were fighting the Reapers are trying to kill the leader of the Reapers demise.

If what Legion says is true the Geth don't like the Reapers and will fight them regardless if you rewrote or destroy.

The Krogan are no use in space warfare and they will probably focus on protecting their only planet. Not to mention the Krogan are probably in the middle of a civil/feudal war thanks to our pal Wrex.

But maybe the Batarians find out Paragon Shepard tried to send a warning message to the coloies in Arrival and they will join Shpard's army. while Renegades are SOL

Krogan will be needed as ground troops.  Or did you forget anywhere there's a Reaper there also tends to be epic ****loads of husks.

[jamesp81]

Just so we're clear...
Murdering an Asari commando that surrendered without a fight is evil.  Period.  It doesn't matter if you THINK it's not, it is.  You don't shoot people who surrender.  Unless you're an evil bastard, of course

[JKoopman]

jamesp81 wrote...

GodWood wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...
Two I can think of are executing Shiala and executing the Rachni queen.  Those sorts of renegade choices break the morality system.

Just because it makes you uneasy that doesn't mean it's 'evil'.
If you had the option to give the queen to the Council I guarantee they'd have done the same.

The council is capable of great evil.  Just because they're the ruling government doesn't make them good people.

It's not the Council's job to be Paragons of Virtue and Benevolence. It's their job to keep the tenuous alliance of species in the galaxy from tearing themselves apart. Neither is it Shepard's job to be the Champion of Moral Virtue. As a Spectre, it's his/her job to protect galactic stablility at any cost.

Now, does freeing the rachni queen and unleashing the species that very nearly destroyed all life in the galaxy sound like it's in the interest of galactic stability to anyone? It's a patent example of Shepard letting his morals get in the way of his responsibility.

Modifié par JKoopman, 17 avril 2011 - 11:37 .

[JKoopman]

jamesp81 wrote...

Just so we're clear...
Murdering an Asari commando that surrendered without a fight is evil.  Period.  It doesn't matter if you THINK it's not, it is.  You don't shoot people who surrender.  Unless you're an evil bastard, of course

Sure you do. Shepard isn't a cop, the Normandy isn't a POW camp and Feros doesn't exactly have a criminal courts system. That Shiala surrendered to you is meaningless. It's effectively a choice between killing her or letting her go free. Now, if you have reason to believe that she may still be indoctrinated or that the indoctrination might resurface, isn't it a better idea to kill her and end the potential threat right then and there rather than let her go and risk whatever potential mischief she may get up to later?