251 réponses à ce sujet

[JKoopman]

Just to make a point, imagine if it had been the Reapers and not the rachni that had nearly wiped out all life in the galaxy 2,000 years prior to the start of Mass Effect, and somehow the Council races had miraculously managed to resist them and win the war. Spectre Shepard then comes along two millenia later and finds the last surviving Reaper having been uncovered and brought to Noveria for study. It tells Shepard that it's totally not like all those other Reapers and pinky-swears via an indoctrinated scientist that it won't try to destroy the galaxy; it'll just go off, build a few more Reapers and peacefully coexist with the Council races.

Would you trust it? Would you pity it? Would you release it? Would that have been a good idea?

I suspect most would destroy it. The Reapers are an obvious threat after all. But somehow the rachni aren't despite having done almost exactly what the Reapers are trying to do now 2,000 years ago?

Modifié par JKoopman, 17 avril 2011 - 11:48 .

[88mphSlayer]

this is just my observation but renegade/paragade players tend to think more about actually defeating the reapers, while pure paragon players tend to think more about companions and friendships with npc's

somebody should do a study on which side likes the idea of a deus ex machina ending more, because i'd think renegade/paragade players would be unanimously against it

[eternalnightmare13]

JKoopman wrote...

Just to make a point, imagine if it had been the Reapers and not the rachni that had nearly wiped out all life in the galaxy 2,000 years prior to the start of Mass Effect, and somehow the Council races had miraculously managed to resist them and win the war. Spectre Shepard then comes along two millenia later and finds the last surviving Reaper having been uncovered and brought to Noveria for study. It tells Shepard that it's totally not like all those other Reapers and pinky-swears via an indoctrinated scientist that it won't try to destroy the galaxy; it'll just go off, build a few more Reapers and peacefully coexist with the Council races.

Would you trust it? Would you pity it? Would you release it? Would that have been a good idea?

I suspect most would destroy it. The Reapers are an obvious threat after all. But somehow the rachni aren't despite having done almost exactly what the Reapers are trying to do now 2,000 years ago?

That depends - can the Reapers sing like the Rachni Queen?! I suspect that they can't even carry a tune or at the very  least resort to the dreaded auto-tune...

[JKoopman]

eternalnightmare13 wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

Just to make a point, imagine if it had been the Reapers and not the rachni that had nearly wiped out all life in the galaxy 2,000 years prior to the start of Mass Effect, and somehow the Council races had miraculously managed to resist them and win the war. Spectre Shepard then comes along two millenia later and finds the last surviving Reaper having been uncovered and brought to Noveria for study. It tells Shepard that it's totally not like all those other Reapers and pinky-swears via an indoctrinated scientist that it won't try to destroy the galaxy; it'll just go off, build a few more Reapers and peacefully coexist with the Council races.

Would you trust it? Would you pity it? Would you release it? Would that have been a good idea?

I suspect most would destroy it. The Reapers are an obvious threat after all. But somehow the rachni aren't despite having done almost exactly what the Reapers are trying to do now 2,000 years ago?

That depends - can the Reapers sing like the Rachni Queen?! I suspect that they can't even carry a tune or at the very  least resort to the dreaded auto-tune...

MC Sovereign in the hizz-ouse?

Dude's got wicked bass.

Modifié par JKoopman, 18 avril 2011 - 12:27 .

[FlyingSquirrel]

GodWood wrote...

hex23 wrote...
If you don't have high enough morality rep, you can hand over the evidence even though Tali begged you not to. This also earns you 30 Renegade points.....but despite them both being Renegade one is obviously "bad ass" and one is a d*ck move, basically for no reason. That's what I meant what I said the "hard line" Renegades, and not Renegades in general. 

You're releasing information that condemns a war criminal for his actions and proves Tali's innocence.
It's perfectly justifiable and not d*ckish at all.

Funnily enough it's one of the paragon choices that gets her exiled.

Yeah, I found the assignment of paragon and renegade points in that scene a bit "off" - it seemed like they only reflected the direct effect on Tali and on the quarian politics, whereas I would argue that a paragon Shepard might well just be unwilling to cover up what Rael'Zorah did. As it is, I've only ever had one of my characters - an Earthborn paragon who is instinctively anti-establishment - actually present the evidence at the trial (this same character also chewed out Miranda in the confrontation with Jack rather than talking them both down). But I think there's a good argument that the "we have no evidence" and "here's the evidence" choices should have been the other way around in terms of the paragon and renegade points.

I also chose the "rally the crowd" option rather than the blue-text persuasion option for one of my other paragons, partly because I wanted to give the quarian leadership a wake-up call if I couldn't expose Rael and still keep Tali's loyalty. In general, I think I'd prefer it if the paragon choices were focused more consistently around ethical judgment and less around the idea of avoiding conflict. The paragon speech to Charn in Bring Down The Sky, for example, didn't sit well with me either - it seems like Shepard basically appeals to his ambitions for more autonomy as a criminal rather than trying to convince him to retire from the slaver business. By comparison, the Helena Blake scenario worked better because you can talk her into cleaning up her act.

[eternalnightmare13]

JKoopman wrote...

eternalnightmare13 wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

Just to make a point, imagine if it had been the Reapers and not the rachni that had nearly wiped out all life in the galaxy 2,000 years prior to the start of Mass Effect, and somehow the Council races had miraculously managed to resist them and win the war. Spectre Shepard then comes along two millenia later and finds the last surviving Reaper having been uncovered and brought to Noveria for study. It tells Shepard that it's totally not like all those other Reapers and pinky-swears via an indoctrinated scientist that it won't try to destroy the galaxy; it'll just go off, build a few more Reapers and peacefully coexist with the Council races.

Would you trust it? Would you pity it? Would you release it? Would that have been a good idea?

I suspect most would destroy it. The Reapers are an obvious threat after all. But somehow the rachni aren't despite having done almost exactly what the Reapers are trying to do now 2,000 years ago?

That depends - can the Reapers sing like the Rachni Queen?! I suspect that they can't even carry a tune or at the very  least resort to the dreaded auto-tune...

MC Sovereign in the hizz-ouse?

Dude's got wicked bass.

Word!

[Askio]

GodWood wrote...

[Potential] Benefits of Renegade Decisions:

Sacrificing the council: Arms race between Humans and turians means more Ships to combat the Reapers.
Killing the Rachni Queen: No indoctrinated rachni soldiers, no rachni wars/hostilities post Reaper War.
Destroying Genophage Cure: Wrex's system stays in tact, smaller but unified krogan army, no krogan hostilities post Reaper war.
Blowing up Heretic Geth: Heretic geth's memories not intergrated with other geth - lessened chance of geth heretics popping up again.
Saving Collector Base: Greater knowledge of Reapers, new advanced technology.

EDIT: What other BIG choices is there?

Some counter possibilities for that are


Arms Race: One of the races goes broke, or tensions between the races results in another war. Also, other races from council probably will feel reluctant in helping Shepard.
Killing Rachni Queen: Having less troops, commiting genocide.
Genophage: I kept it and got renegade. Which was the right choice imo. Give it to Wrex, and then he can be a hero that unites the krogan and lets them have many baby dinos.
Heretic Geth: The geth reached the heretic status on their own. They could very easily do it again, but integrating them could prevent that.
Collector Base: The reason the Reapers were able to win so easily is because other species relied on the technology that the Reapers "created" apparently. Now what would happen if we only got, say, a years experience using reaper tech while they've been causing mass genocide for millions of years. Not a good thing to count on.


But no, Renegades could also bully or justify their actions to others, and create some very unique choices. Likewise, being all Paragon could allow old enemies to come back against you, or something to that effect. I think BioWare has done a good job not screwing up the ME choices and consequences.

[jbblue05]

jamesp81 wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

I don't understand why Paragons think they will have much more allies.

Even if you saved the Council in ME2 the COuncil tells the Alliance to screw off and solve their own human problem.
Whhich tells me the COuncil will help the Alliance if it effects them also. So the enemy of my enemy is an ally.

The Rachni is in favor of Paragons but something tells me they will be bittersweet in the fight against the reapers.

Being nice to Tali doesn't equal QUarian army nor does being mean to Tali equal Quarians joins Reapers.
I think the Quarians will be useless but something tells ,me they rather live than become Reapers smoothies

By popular demand Cerberus is now your enemy, now Cerberus the only people who were fighting the Reapers are trying to kill the leader of the Reapers demise.

If what Legion says is true the Geth don't like the Reapers and will fight them regardless if you rewrote or destroy.

The Krogan are no use in space warfare and they will probably focus on protecting their only planet. Not to mention the Krogan are probably in the middle of a civil/feudal war thanks to our pal Wrex.

But maybe the Batarians find out Paragon Shepard tried to send a warning message to the coloies in Arrival and they will join Shpard's army. while Renegades are SOL

Krogan will be needed as ground troops.  Or did you forget anywhere there's a Reaper there also tends to be epic ****loads of husks.

  I said they are no use in space warfare and the Krogan aren't united.
Biotics are just as good at taking down husks as Krogan

[Seboist]

Screw using Krogans as ground troops, use the Vorcha instead!

[Askio]

ExtremeOne wrote...

ArmedChimp wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

Its really a mute point since in 3 the Paragon Shepard is the default Shepard in the game

You're basing this of random speculation. People don't know how choices will impact the game.

  



The Game Informer clearly indictaes that the paragon ending in 2 is the one that the default Shepard will be. unless they have another way of explaining  it to us renegade players.  I am only going by what the GI  article says since it come from Bioware theme selfs 

Here's my problem with this. Paragon and renegade are being to liberally applied to situations. Even if one choice or another may technically fill up that bar, a renegade Shepard could argue that TIM can't be trusted and shouldn't get what he wants. Or that relying on the tech that reapers themselves use is risky and not worth chancing.  Regardless it seems like TIM wants Shepard dead either way.

[Golden Owl]

88mphSlayer wrote...

this is just my observation but renegade/paragade players tend to think more about actually defeating the reapers, while pure paragon players tend to think more about companions and friendships with npc's

I disagree...though really it probably just comes down to each individual players perception...The paragon is also just as focussed on defeating the Reapers, he just doesn't see bludgeoning his way through every one else as the only path to his ultimate aim....I see his focus in ME2 in particular as trying to garner the support and readiness of as many races as he is able, before the Reapers arrive.

[FlyingSquirrel]

How is executing Shiala and killing the rachni queen "evil"? Shiala was formerly an indoctrinated servant of Saren; just one more asari commando out of the dozens you've already killed up to that point. The only evidence that she's NOT indoctrinated any longer is that she says she's not. A Renegade Shepard isn't going to chance it out of mercy. He's just going to execute her once he has the information he wants. Granted, I've never done so in any of my playthroughs (even the Renegade one) but I can understand the reasoning for doing so.

The thing is, even if you don't trust her, there's no real reason to kill her, IMO. Unless her biotics are unusually powerful, she's not going to do anything that three well-armed individuals couldn't quickly counteract if they had to. She could easily be taken prisoner and handed over to Alliance or Asari authorities, or to the Council. I have a hard time believing that Spectres have no options in dealing with suspicious characters or even known criminals other than letting them go or executing them.

I created a thread a while back asking if there was any good reason for choosing Morinth over Samara and it was explained to me that it actually makes sense for a Renegade to side with Morinth because Samara has basically sworn to attack you after the Collector threat is taken care of. She tells you at the conclusion of her recruitment mission that, if you do anything especially dishonest (like executing unarmed civilians, which Renegade Shepard does quite frequently) then her Code will compel her to kill you once her Oath to you is fulfilled.

I think the "Morinth will be more useful to me" line, not the choice itself, was the mistake there. What's Morinth going to do that's more "useful"? Her skills aren't that different from Samara's, and frankly I think she'd be less trustworthy in a really tough situation (she doesn't exactly seem big on the self-sacrifice thing). For that matter, I could see how a Shepard of *either* alignment might intervene on Morinth's behalf - a renegade would be worried that Samara will turn against him/her after the mission, and a paragon might want to stop the execution and let them both live. I suppose the "more useful" line *could* be interpreted along the lines of fearing that Samara's code will eventually compel her to kill Shepard, but it's a somewhat oblique way of saying it, if that's what the intention was.

[Seboist]

Killing Shiala is by far one of the most dubious things one can do in ME. She provides valuable intel, offers to assist the colonists rebuild and seems remorseful for her past. She doesn't even struggle when Shep decides to kill her and willingly kneels so she can be executed. I couldn't bring myself to kill her despite role playing as "The Punisher".

This is stark contrast to someone like say Rana Thanoptis who was participating in vile experiments and was only interested in saving her own tail. Her I killed without second thought.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Seboist wrote...

Killing Shiala is by far one of the most dubious things one can do in ME. She provides valuable intel, offers to assist the colonists rebuild and seems remorseful for her past. She doesn't even struggle when Shep decides to kill her and willingly kneels so she can be executed. I couldn't bring myself to kill her despite role playing as "The Punisher".

This is stark contrast to someone like say Rana Thanoptis who was participating in vile experiments and was only interested in saving her own tail. Her I killed without second thought.

As much as I love Shiala as a character, her history of being both indoctrinated and... consumed by the Thorian give you a plausible reason to no trust her; even if she does indeed intend well herself, she may simply be used as a unknowing pawn (or vector, I suppose).

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 18 avril 2011 - 03:26 .

[Empiro]

FlyingSquirrel wrote...


I think the "Morinth will be more useful to me" line, not the choice itself, was the mistake there. What's Morinth going to do that's more "useful"? Her skills aren't that different from Samara's, and frankly I think she'd be less trustworthy in a really tough situation (she doesn't exactly seem big on the self-sacrifice thing). For that matter, I could see how a Shepard of *either* alignment might intervene on Morinth's behalf - a renegade would be worried that Samara will turn against him/her after the mission, and a paragon might want to stop the execution and let them both live. I suppose the "more useful" line *could* be interpreted along the lines of fearing that Samara's code will eventually compel her to kill Shepard, but it's a somewhat oblique way of saying it, if that's what the intention was.

I always thought that perhaps Samara's loyalty mission was meant to be longer but was cut. It should have given more character development to Morinth. Perhaps at some point before Samara shows up, she learns that you're with Samara, and if you were heavily Renegade, she'd mention how Samara was likely to kill you afterwards.

[Seboist]

Empiro wrote...

FlyingSquirrel wrote...


I think the "Morinth will be more useful to me" line, not the choice itself, was the mistake there. What's Morinth going to do that's more "useful"? Her skills aren't that different from Samara's, and frankly I think she'd be less trustworthy in a really tough situation (she doesn't exactly seem big on the self-sacrifice thing). For that matter, I could see how a Shepard of *either* alignment might intervene on Morinth's behalf - a renegade would be worried that Samara will turn against him/her after the mission, and a paragon might want to stop the execution and let them both live. I suppose the "more useful" line *could* be interpreted along the lines of fearing that Samara's code will eventually compel her to kill Shepard, but it's a somewhat oblique way of saying it, if that's what the intention was.

I always thought that perhaps Samara's loyalty mission was meant to be longer but was cut. It should have given more character development to Morinth. Perhaps at some point before Samara shows up, she learns that you're with Samara, and if you were heavily Renegade, she'd mention how Samara was likely to kill you afterwards.

A lot about Morinth's implementation in ME2 implies she was very half assed, from the lack of dialog options in towns to the whole shtick about her having to pretend to be her mother.........even when she's breathing her last breath in the SM(seriously,wtf?).

[Seboist]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Killing Shiala is by far one of the most dubious things one can do in ME. She provides valuable intel, offers to assist the colonists rebuild and seems remorseful for her past. She doesn't even struggle when Shep decides to kill her and willingly kneels so she can be executed. I couldn't bring myself to kill her despite role playing as "The Punisher".

This is stark contrast to someone like say Rana Thanoptis who was participating in vile experiments and was only interested in saving her own tail. Her I killed without second thought.

As much as I love Shiala as a character, her history of being both indoctrinated and... consumed by the Thorian give you a plausible reason to no trust her; even if she does indeed intend well herself, she may simply be used as a unknowing pawn (or vector, I suppose).

I understand that but it's still one of those very hard decisions like keeping David in Project Overlord.

[AngryFrozenWater]

I don't think that being a true renegade has to mean that one is pro Cerberus all the way. Selecting renegade options without thinking things trough isn't smart either. Take David for an example. Giving him back to Cerberus is not a good idea. It'll give renegades a bad name. Ghehe. Think about it. Let's say for some odd reason Shepard needs to be trialed. If Shepard gave David back to Cerberus the Council might have the idea that Shepard is a sociopath. The alternative may work in your defense. Besides... TIM needs to know his place from time to time. Being a renegade doesn't mean you are his obedient servant. You have to be pragmatic as well.

[masseffectexpert94]

MikkroBitti wrote...

masseffectexpert94 wrote...

if you go paragon by me3 you will have a cerberus army a krogan army a geth army a rachni army and a alliance army. if you go renegade you will have nothing

How can paragon have Cerberus army? It's renegade who keeps the base...

because shep works for illusive man. even after blowing the collecter base she still has his support

[masseffectexpert94]

jamesp81 wrote...

masseffectexpert94 wrote...

Stukovkh wrote...

I actually just started another playthrough as a renegade shep... I was actually surprised to see the options were more get to the point and or get this sh*t done rather than I'm just an evil ******... Not to mention renegade or not Shepard is always a good public speaker, he makes people follow him through inspiration or intimidation, so irregardless of how he has been, he will find away to find allies in the coming fight.

renegade means bad ass and right to the point not evil

That's what it's supposed to mean.  And, most of the time, it does.  However, there are some renegade decisions that ARE outright evil.  Two I can think of are executing Shiala and executing the Rachni queen.  Those sorts of renegade choices break the morality system.

i will give u shiala but some would be relived to know shep killed the last rachni

[ISpeakTheTruth]

eternalnightmare13 wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

Just to make a point, imagine if it had been the Reapers and not the rachni that had nearly wiped out all life in the galaxy 2,000 years prior to the start of Mass Effect, and somehow the Council races had miraculously managed to resist them and win the war. Spectre Shepard then comes along two millenia later and finds the last surviving Reaper having been uncovered and brought to Noveria for study. It tells Shepard that it's totally not like all those other Reapers and pinky-swears via an indoctrinated scientist that it won't try to destroy the galaxy; it'll just go off, build a few more Reapers and peacefully coexist with the Council races.

Would you trust it? Would you pity it? Would you release it? Would that have been a good idea?

I suspect most would destroy it. The Reapers are an obvious threat after all. But somehow the rachni aren't despite having done almost exactly what the Reapers are trying to do now 2,000 years ago?

That depends - can the Reapers sing like the Rachni Queen?! I suspect that they can't even carry a tune or at the very  least resort to the dreaded auto-tune...

But Reapers can sing    

Also it isn't a fair example. If the Reaper were under the control of someone else than they wouldn't be responsible for what happened and if the Rachni were under the control of the Reapers when they started attacking than what they didn't isn't their fault either and they shouldn't be condemed to death for the sins of someone else.

[JKoopman]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

eternalnightmare13 wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

Just to make a point, imagine if it had been the Reapers and not the rachni that had nearly wiped out all life in the galaxy 2,000 years prior to the start of Mass Effect, and somehow the Council races had miraculously managed to resist them and win the war. Spectre Shepard then comes along two millenia later and finds the last surviving Reaper having been uncovered and brought to Noveria for study. It tells Shepard that it's totally not like all those other Reapers and pinky-swears via an indoctrinated scientist that it won't try to destroy the galaxy; it'll just go off, build a few more Reapers and peacefully coexist with the Council races.

Would you trust it? Would you pity it? Would you release it? Would that have been a good idea?

I suspect most would destroy it. The Reapers are an obvious threat after all. But somehow the rachni aren't despite having done almost exactly what the Reapers are trying to do now 2,000 years ago?

That depends - can the Reapers sing like the Rachni Queen?! I suspect that they can't even carry a tune or at the very  least resort to the dreaded auto-tune...

But Reapers can sing    

Also it isn't a fair example. If the Reaper were under the control of someone else than they wouldn't be responsible for what happened and if the Rachni were under the control of the Reapers when they started attacking than what they didn't isn't their fault either and they shouldn't be condemed to death for the sins of someone else.

But, again, the only evidence Shepard has to support this is the queen's word. And might I point out that the queen kind of has a vested interest in ensuring that you don't give her an acid bath?

[Seboist]

thurmanator692 wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Screw using Krogans as ground troops, use the Vorcha instead!

Is it too much to ask for both?

Shep running around with a Vorcha and Krogan squadmate would be the most epic thing ever. Can't say no to that.

[ISpeakTheTruth]

JKoopman wrote...

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

eternalnightmare13 wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

Just to make a point, imagine if it had been the Reapers and not the rachni that had nearly wiped out all life in the galaxy 2,000 years prior to the start of Mass Effect, and somehow the Council races had miraculously managed to resist them and win the war. Spectre Shepard then comes along two millenia later and finds the last surviving Reaper having been uncovered and brought to Noveria for study. It tells Shepard that it's totally not like all those other Reapers and pinky-swears via an indoctrinated scientist that it won't try to destroy the galaxy; it'll just go off, build a few more Reapers and peacefully coexist with the Council races.

Would you trust it? Would you pity it? Would you release it? Would that have been a good idea?

I suspect most would destroy it. The Reapers are an obvious threat after all. But somehow the rachni aren't despite having done almost exactly what the Reapers are trying to do now 2,000 years ago?

That depends - can the Reapers sing like the Rachni Queen?! I suspect that they can't even carry a tune or at the very  least resort to the dreaded auto-tune...

But Reapers can sing    

Also it isn't a fair example. If the Reaper were under the control of someone else than they wouldn't be responsible for what happened and if the Rachni were under the control of the Reapers when they started attacking than what they didn't isn't their fault either and they shouldn't be condemed to death for the sins of someone else.

But, again, the only evidence Shepard has to support this is the queen's word. And might I point out that the queen kind of has a vested interest in ensuring that you don't give her an acid bath?

One has to ask the logical question of if the Rachni are lying about wanting to help Shepard and lying about the Reapers being behind the first Rachni War than why go out of your way to find him in the first place? He's going to have his hands full with the Reapers its not like he's going to go out of his way to try and find the Rachni.

The Queen put herself out in front of Shepard I find it hard to believe that she did this only to turn on Shepard.