161 réponses à ce sujet

[DocDoomII]

Flayling wrote...

Me personally? Dragon Age Origins was a brilliant game, but I'm a hardcore gamer. I could easily handle all the complex situations.

..... Now let's analyze my best friend's gaming style.  He is not video game savy.  He installed Dragon Age and absolutely loved the game.  But....

1. He kept dieing on casual mode over & over & over again.
2. He didnt' even know that you can have four party members.
3. He had no idea that you could equip new armor and weapons for your hero or companions
4. He never looted anything off corpses
5. He had no idea there was a "party camp".
6. He skipped through dialogue to get to the "action".

The list goes on and on. Sadly these types of gamers make up a majority of Bioware's consumers.

Before I saw my friend play Dragon Age Origins I thought Bioware was completely retarded in how they designed DA2. But after seeing my friend play Dragon Age Origins I understand why Bioware made DA2 the way they did.

Basically Bioware is catering to people who have no clue about video games and have no idea what an RPG is. Sad but true.......

Everything Mike Laidlaw or any of the other bioware employees say MAKES PERFECT sense when I compare their comments to how retarded my friend played Dragon Age Origins.

Food for thought.

For such people wouldn't be better a WII?

[Teredan]

@randName

it's a possibility but I'm in no position to judge it's viability since it doesn't affect me.
I mean for those that found origins to hard there were cheats out there, people that still didn't want to use them sought what I assume a challenge? For which making god mode in casual obsolete.

[mdugger12]

Teredan wrote...

mdugger12 wrote...

Teredan wrote...

It doesn't make sense, they should have instead implemented better tutorials?
I doubt your friend lacks the ability to learn? (And learning new mechanics can be made fun if done right)

I don't think it's about lacking the ability to learn, I think that casual gamers or even gamers that aren't hardcore RPG fans don't want to go through hours of tutorials before they can start enjoying a game. It's a hurdle that Bioware faced in trying to share the DA universe with more people. I don't see that as being wrong, it's something worth sharing with the world. Still, I totally understand how some fans are disappointed that DA 2 isn't quite the love letter to RPG fans that DA:O was.

like I said rightly implemented tutorials don't have to be tedious. Casual gamers don't want to put in the effort to learn hard mechanics. so you make the learning process as easy as possible and fun as possible instead of eliminating it. problem solved.

I hear you. I agree to a certain extent but some aspects should be made easier or more convenient. Nothing in a game should be difficult just for the sake of being difficult. There should be a challenge available to even the most experienced gamer but and you should never lose the importance of strategy. But I don't think basic controls or combat should have to be more difficult than necessary.

Something like attacking an enemy in and of itself shouldn't be hard. Figuring out how to make your attack effective should be the challenge.

[DocDoomII]

mdugger12 wrote...

I hear you. I agree to a certain extent but some aspects should be made easier or more convenient. Nothing in a game should be difficult just for the sake of being difficult. There should be a challenge available to even the most experienced gamer but and you should never lose the importance of strategy. But I don't think basic controls or combat should have to be more difficult than necessary.

Something like attacking an enemy in and of itself shouldn't be hard. Figuring out how to make your attack effective should be the challenge.

And exactly what was really difficult in DA:O mechanics (all mechanics, not only combat related ones)?

[Melca36]

I played every single Origin. I played Human and Dalish more than once because I enjoyed them the most.

Of course there is a learning curve the first time you play a game but you make the effort learn. I think 7 out of every 10 people who thought Origins was difficult are just lazy! These are the type of people that want everything handed to them.

[Teredan]

DocDoomII wrote...

mdugger12 wrote...

I hear you. I agree to a certain extent but some aspects should be made easier or more convenient. Nothing in a game should be difficult just for the sake of being difficult. There should be a challenge available to even the most experienced gamer but and you should never lose the importance of strategy. But I don't think basic controls or combat should have to be more difficult than necessary.

Something like attacking an enemy in and of itself shouldn't be hard. Figuring out how to make your attack effective should be the challenge.

And exactly what was really difficult in DA:O mechanics (all mechanics, not only combat related ones)?

nothing, it was just extremely tedious to learn them (at least that's what my friend said).
As far as I remember the tutorial was also very lackluster covering only elemental things.
Knowledge for advanced tactics (such as spellcombos) where only gained through reading block text boxes.
I didn't have a problem with that, but there seems to be a mass of people that do.

@mdugger12

I agree completely

Melca36 wrote...

I played every single Origin. I played Human and Dalish more than once because I enjoyed them the most.

Of
course there is a learning curve the first time you play a game but you
make the effort learn. I think 7 out of every 10 people who thought
Origins was difficult are just lazy! These are the type of people that
want everything handed to them.

thats how I personally see things too, but that doesn't mean I can't relate to those that were too lazy and condemn efforts on making it more comfortable for them to learn. What I condemn is cutting out stuff because it's deemed to difficult for the common folks.

Modifié par Teredan, 16 avril 2011 - 10:27 .

[randName]

Teredan wrote...

@randName

it's a possibility but I'm in no position to judge it's viability since it doesn't affect me.
I mean for those that found origins to hard there were cheats out there, people that still didn't want to use them sought what I assume a challenge? For which making god mode in casual obsolete.

Well I meant god mode as in that you will never really fail, as Fable 2 did it (so so casual) - so you get beaten, but you don't.

And I'm not affected directly either - but it would allow people to play the games for the story and don't care about the combat.

And new people would always be able to get through everything, even if they get negative feedback for losing their health.

[Louis deGuerre]

This discussion is like rounding PI to 3 so math is easier for the retarded.

The retarded can bugger off to [insert-retarded-game-of-choice].

[Melca36]

Teredan wrote...

DocDoomII wrote...

mdugger12 wrote...

I hear you. I agree to a certain extent but some aspects should be made easier or more convenient. Nothing in a game should be difficult just for the sake of being difficult. There should be a challenge available to even the most experienced gamer but and you should never lose the importance of strategy. But I don't think basic controls or combat should have to be more difficult than necessary.

Something like attacking an enemy in and of itself shouldn't be hard. Figuring out how to make your attack effective should be the challenge.

And exactly what was really difficult in DA:O mechanics (all mechanics, not only combat related ones)?

nothing, it was just extremely tedious to learn them (at least that's what my friend said).
As far as I remember the tutorial was also very lackluster covering only elemental things.
Knowledge for advanced tactics (such as spellcombos) where only gained through reading block text boxes.
I didn't have a problem with that, but there seems to be a mass of people that do.

@mdugger12

I agree completely

Melca36 wrote...

I played every single Origin. I played Human and Dalish more than once because I enjoyed them the most.

Of
course there is a learning curve the first time you play a game but you
make the effort learn. I think 7 out of every 10 people who thought
Origins was difficult are just lazy! These are the type of people that
want everything handed to them.

thats how I personally see things too, but that doesn't mean I can't relate to those that were too lazy and condemn efforts on making it more comfortable for them to learn. What I condemn is cutting out stuff because it's deemed to difficult for the common folks.

Exactly. When I pay for a game I want my money's worth. I didn't hate DA:2 but it could have been a far better game had they not pandered to one fan base.

[mdugger12]

DocDoomII wrote...

mdugger12 wrote...

I hear you. I agree to a certain extent but some aspects should be made easier or more convenient. Nothing in a game should be difficult just for the sake of being difficult. There should be a challenge available to even the most experienced gamer but and you should never lose the importance of strategy. But I don't think basic controls or combat should have to be more difficult than necessary.

Something like attacking an enemy in and of itself shouldn't be hard. Figuring out how to make your attack effective should be the challenge.

And exactly what was really difficult in DA:O mechanics (all mechanics, not only combat related ones)?

I didn't think anything was really that difficult in DA:O but that's just me. The game was obviously not made to be played on a console but I knew that going in. But, I can't say what may have turned other people off about the first one. Then again, I don't see what they did this time around that somehow makes the game "dumbed down".

[Sabriana]

Melca36 wrote...

Exactly. When I pay for a game I want my money's worth. I didn't hate DA:2 but it could have been a far better game had they not pandered to one fan base.

I agree on the money's worth point, and I also didn't "hate" DA 2. It could have been a great game indeed. It had so many interesting characters that fell by the wayside, unfortunately.

Add a bit of love and polish, give the player choices and the opportunity to be *in* the world, and it would've been much better. And for goodness sakes, a RPG player doesn't want to be surprised by her/his MC. That's an absolute no-no. (yeah, I just found out that the wheel silliness was purposely done, so the player could be "surprised", and I'm not over that yet. So sue me) It most likely wouldn't have incited so many stable and lasting negative reactions across many boards/forums/blogs/fansites.

However, I think the problem lies in the fact that they tried to cater to more than one fanbase. They tried to keep the loyal RPG fans happy while reaching for an unreachable audience. They stretched too far, and failed at both ends.

[micdy]

1. He kept dieing on casual mode over & over & over again.
2. He didnt' even know that you can have four party members.
3. He had no idea that you could equip new armor and weapons for your hero or companions
4. He never looted anything off corpses
5. He had no idea there was a "party camp".
6. He skipped through dialogue to get to the "action".

i think your friend have to learn WHAT is an rpg and learn to play them,  or maybe  just play some action game or shooter game...

What have deceive me the most in DAO  is that my first playthrou i have set the difficulty level at Hard and found it too easy so i tryed Nightmare,...  again too easy  

[senjeny]

Flayling wrote...

..... Now let's analyze my best friend's gaming style.

1. He kept dieing on casual mode over & over & over again.
2. He didnt' even know that you can have four party members.
3. He had no idea that you could equip new armor and weapons for your hero or companions
4. He never looted anything off corpses
5. He had no idea there was a "party camp".
6. He skipped through dialogue to get to the "action".

With all due respect, your friend is not the smartest person in the world and he should be playing other kind of games. Not everything is for everyone.

[Tirigon]

Flayling wrote...

1. He kept dieing on casual mode over & over & over again.

Yea me too. Then I learned some basic tactics and by now I installed a mod to make Nightmare harder and about 90% of the fights are still too easy.....

[micdy]

Tirigon wrote...

Flayling wrote...

1. He kept dieing on casual mode over & over & over again.

Yea me too. Then I learned some basic tactics and by now I installed a mod to make Nightmare harder and about 90% of the fights are still too easy.....

where did you find this mod to make Nightmare harder,  i want it,  i need it please.

Modifié par micdy, 16 avril 2011 - 11:22 .

[DocDoomII]

I suppose he is referring to this mod
Nightmare Plus

[Tirigon]

DocDoomII wrote...

I suppose he is referring to this mod
Nightmare Plus

No I´m using Combat Tweaks with the optional Level scaling change. Note that, due to the way Combat Tweaks works, Magic becomes weaker towards lategame - the difficulty increase came, for me, mainly because I play mage and might not be as strong for non-mages.

However, there is many more possibilities to customise, and I think all ability tweaks are an improvement, so you should definitely have a look and see for yourself if it is something for you or not.

here´s the link: http://www.dragonage...file.php?id=354

[micdy]

thank you, i will look those two options and see wich one fit best for me ,
i was looking for a way to make this game harder, except imposing myself some rules, i had found now way so far.
those two new options sound interesting, thank you

[Funkjoker]

Flayling wrote...

1. He kept dieing on casual mode over & over & over again.
When you push a button in DAII, something awesome happens: Action and mainstream ftw!
2. He didnt' even know that you can have four party members.
...............
Yeah, this is so difficult to find out in the game. It's literally hidden in the game's UI. But don't tell anybody!
3. He had no idea that you could equip new armor and weapons for your hero or companions
See #2. Just give him DAII, because there you only have to equip the main character (mostly). I hope this mechanism isn't too complicated!
4. He never looted anything off corpses
Nobody forces him
5. He had no idea there was a "party camp".
#2
6. He skipped through dialogue to get to the "action".
Aaah. A perfect mainstream gamer. See #3 and #1.

Food for thought.

Seriously, if BioWare wants to appeal to those... kind of gamers, the DA series will only have one great game: DAO. I hope they learned a lesson. None of these points are difficult to find out.

Modifié par Jean-Funk Van Damme, 16 avril 2011 - 11:42 .

[DocDoomII]

Flayling wrote...

2. He didnt' even know that you can have four party members.

No wait.
I just realized how impossible this is.

Did he at least get to the Korkari Wilds?
If yes, then excuse me if I say that your friend has the cognitive abilities of a... I can't even find somthing to make a paragon!

[randName]

Tirigon wrote...

DocDoomII wrote...

I suppose he is referring to this mod
Nightmare Plus

No I´m using Combat Tweaks with the optional Level scaling change. Note that, due to the way Combat Tweaks works, Magic becomes weaker towards lategame - the difficulty increase came, for me, mainly because I play mage and might not be as strong for non-mages.

However, there is many more possibilities to customise, and I think all ability tweaks are an improvement, so you should definitely have a look and see for yourself if it is something for you or not.

here´s the link: http://www.dragonage...file.php?id=354

I would like the old UT mutators/mods in games like DA2 - customized difficulties - do you want more or less enemies? do you want more health, or less, do you want less health per level up, more? a few simple ones early on and then you can adjust it a little bit to suit your own needs.

Mods allow this ofc. but without the toolset it's hard to get many mods to work at once (one difficulty mod, one spell mods etc) .

[casadechrisso]

There was also a patch, I think the first or second, that made a huge difference in difficulty for DA:O. I remember after installing the vanilla game and playing on normal, there were a few fights that were frustratingly hard. One of the patches changed that, the same fights were much easier afterwards, even on hard still easily manageable. Of course, my first playthrough wasn't really the suggested order too, I think I hit the Dalish way too soon.

[DocDoomII]

casadechrisso wrote...

There was also a patch, I think the first or second, that made a huge difference in difficulty for DA:O. I remember after installing the vanilla game and playing on normal, there were a few fights that were frustratingly hard. One of the patches changed that, the same fights were much easier afterwards, even on hard still easily manageable. Of course, my first playthrough wasn't really the suggested order too, I think I hit the Dalish way too soon.

Now that you mention it... I remember somthing like that too.

[FreyaWazHere]

There's nothing wrong with casual/normal gaming. I for one don't play games for strategy, or tactics, I much prefer enjoying the world/story/characters of the game. So yes for DA I set my companion tactics, but mostly let the AI do all the work, does this make me a poor gamer? Or not worthy to be called a gamer at all? No, it simply means I enjoy different aspects of a game more than others and that may be different for you.

[Just_For_Lulz]

Flayling wrote...

Me personally? Dragon Age Origins was a brilliant game, but I'm a hardcore gamer. I could easily handle all the complex situations.

..... Now let's analyze my best friend's gaming style.  He is not video game savy.  He installed Dragon Age and absolutely loved the game.  But....

1. He kept dieing on casual mode over & over & over again.
2. He didnt' even know that you can have four party members.
3. He had no idea that you could equip new armor and weapons for your hero or companions
4. He never looted anything off corpses
5. He had no idea there was a "party camp".
6. He skipped through dialogue to get to the "action".

The list goes on and on. Sadly these types of gamers make up a majority of Bioware's consumers.

Before I saw my friend play Dragon Age Origins I thought Bioware was completely retarded in how they designed DA2. But after seeing my friend play Dragon Age Origins I understand why Bioware made DA2 the way they did.

Basically Bioware is catering to people who have no clue about video games and have no idea what an RPG is. Sad but true.......

Everything Mike Laidlaw or any of the other bioware employees say MAKES PERFECT sense when I compare their comments to how retarded my friend played Dragon Age Origins.

Food for thought.

To be honest I don't quite get the point of your post... You say that DAO was too hard for your friend, he didn't know about party companions, loot, weapons and armor that you can equip etc. But DA2 still has loot, companions, weapons and armor. So what's your point? Do you want Laidlaw and Co dumb down DA3 even further, stripping those gameplay elements as well?

"Basically Bioware is catering to people who have no clue about video games and have no idea what an RPG is. " - Well, maybe, just maybe, your friend should not play video games in the first place? And search for entertainment somewhere else: literature, movies, theatres etc? Maybe this has nothing to do with DA, or RPGs in general? Because, you know, I can buy CoD, join the server, stand still for 2 hours, and then complain how it is too difficult, because I didn't know I can move or shoot. 
Food for thought.