161 réponses à ce sujet

[Paper420]

RandName wrote...
Heh, it should be common knowlage already I think - and since it has more to do with DA:O and game design in general I don't see a big need for it. but thanks ~

Yaw, I just keep seeing the same thread asking for help with the basic game play on harder difficulties and what you said just jumped out at me.

[Sleek]

why im resenting Biowares new game and marketing directions are because, they truly feel like they are catering to 10 to 13 year olds . Which is the age of MOST console gamers .

[ransompendragon]

bEVEsthda wrote...

Dudes, - what's your points?
Isn't there enough children games out there? Is EVERY game now required to be a children game?

This.

If you want to make action games and sell them to action/casual/insert some polite way of saying great washed masses/ gamers on all platforms - FINE. MAKE and SELL THOSE GAMES. NOT A PROBLEM. DONT CALL THEM RPG's and DONT EXPECT ME TO BUY THEM.

[Vic George 2011]

I like how the difficulty is evenly scaled on both the console versions and the computer versions of DA2: Casual plays just the same on both. As much as I wanted to play DA:O on the computer after trying out the Xbox 360 version and liking it despite its shortcomings, I didn't like how Easy on the computer comes off as a bit harder than Casual on the console. The Tower of Ishaal ogre which wasn't much of a problem for me to deal with on console Casual was wiping the floor with my entire team on computer Easy.

[Otterwarden]

Teredan wrote...

It doesn't make sense, they should have instead implemented better tutorials?
I doubt your friend lacks the ability to learn? (And learning new mechanics can be made fun if done right)

Amen.  Bioware can invest some of their profits into making hard copy manuals written specifically for novice players, walking them through strategy and build suggestions.  No need to ruin the game just so the newbie can figure it out.

[JoshPloof]

Flayling wrote...

Me personally? Dragon Age Origins was a brilliant game, but I'm a hardcore gamer. I could easily handle all the complex situations.

..... Now let's analyze my best friend's gaming style.  He is not video game savy.  He installed Dragon Age and absolutely loved the game.  But....

1. He kept dieing on casual mode over & over & over again.
2. He didnt' even know that you can have four party members.
3. He had no idea that you could equip new armor and weapons for your hero or companions
4. He never looted anything off corpses
5. He had no idea there was a "party camp".
6. He skipped through dialogue to get to the "action".

The list goes on and on. Sadly these types of gamers make up a majority of Bioware's consumers.

Before I saw my friend play Dragon Age Origins I thought Bioware was completely retarded in how they designed DA2. But after seeing my friend play Dragon Age Origins I understand why Bioware made DA2 the way they did.

Basically Bioware is catering to people who have no clue about video games and have no idea what an RPG is. Sad but true.......

Everything Mike Laidlaw or any of the other bioware employees say MAKES PERFECT sense when I compare their comments to how retarded my friend played Dragon Age Origins.

Food for thought.

Is your friend braindead? I remember I got Dragon Age Origins with NO knowledge of what it was at ALL I didn't hear about it, never saw any commercials, just saw it in the store one day and decided to go for it. As soon as I popped it in I knew exactly what to do, it was pretty damn user-friendly if you have any video gaming experience at all.

[Miashi]

Otterwarden wrote...
Amen.  Bioware can invest some of their profits into making hard copy manuals written specifically for novice players, walking them through strategy and build suggestions.  No need to ruin the game just so the newbie can figure it out.

Or they could also put a difficulty that makes your party invincible :/

[Guldor]

Flayling wrote...

Me personally? Dragon Age Origins was a brilliant game, but I'm a hardcore gamer. I could easily handle all the complex situations.

..... Now let's analyze my best friend's gaming style.  He is not video game savy.  He installed Dragon Age and absolutely loved the game.  But....

1. He kept dieing on casual mode over & over & over again.
2. He didnt' even know that you can have four party members.
3. He had no idea that you could equip new armor and weapons for your hero or companions
4. He never looted anything off corpses
5. He had no idea there was a "party camp".
6. He skipped through dialogue to get to the "action".

The list goes on and on. Sadly these types of gamers make up a majority of Bioware's consumers.

Before I saw my friend play Dragon Age Origins I thought Bioware was completely retarded in how they designed DA2. But after seeing my friend play Dragon Age Origins I understand why Bioware made DA2 the way they did.

Basically Bioware is catering to people who have no clue about video games and have no idea what an RPG is. Sad but true.......

Everything Mike Laidlaw or any of the other bioware employees say MAKES PERFECT sense when I compare their comments to how retarded my friend played Dragon Age Origins.

Food for thought.

Seriously!!  My 55 years old dad who barely plays videogames was able to finish it.  We both bought DAO but will not buy DA2.

[uanime5]

I feel their should be a difference between easy mode and person who can't be bothered to learn how to play the game mode.

[Monica83]

Merilsell wrote...

My friend, who never played videogames in her life, played Origins on the XBox and quite frankly did very well for her lack of experience. She made her own character and not only that she talked to her companions without skipping anything, nor did she die in battle on casual. And she really liked Origins. That the interest about it was that strong that it brought her to play videogames in the first place says something.

Good I helped her with fiddling with the inventory a bit, but she figured out the rest on her own. It is not that hard when you try to use a program called brain.exe * rolls eyes*

But yeah, apparently BW makes RPG's now for people who don't play RPG's.

classy.

This...

My mother never played a videogame before and she loved dragon age origins.. Well she taked some time to learn but she finished the game and love it....

Wher my mom seen dragon age 2 she asked to me: Why they changed all in this manner? Its like play a power rangers game!

Ohhhhh i laughted so hard at her comment XD

[mordarwarlock]

Monica83 wrote...

Merilsell wrote...

My friend, who never played videogames in her life, played Origins on the XBox and quite frankly did very well for her lack of experience. She made her own character and not only that she talked to her companions without skipping anything, nor did she die in battle on casual. And she really liked Origins. That the interest about it was that strong that it brought her to play videogames in the first place says something.

Good I helped her with fiddling with the inventory a bit, but she figured out the rest on her own. It is not that hard when you try to use a program called brain.exe * rolls eyes*

But yeah, apparently BW makes RPG's now for people who don't play RPG's.

classy.

This...

My mother never played a videogame before and she loved dragon age origins.. Well she taked some time to learn but she finished the game and love it....

Wher my mom seen dragon age 2 she asked to me: Why they changed all in this manner? Its like play a power rangers game!

Ohhhhh i laughted so hard at her comment XD

your mom rocks, take good care of her

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

A fair share of people who seem to think DA:O was too difficult either were new to RPGs or were playing on the terrible port to consoles which had some pretty bad control schemes. I'm not some sort of amazing player with this game but I'm doing a Nightmare run now and it's not too difficult to me.

Haha, your mom does sound pretty cool Monica83, funny story.

[Otterwarden]

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

A fair share of people who seem to think DA:O was too difficult either were new to RPGs or were playing on the terrible port to consoles which had some pretty bad control schemes. I'm not some sort of amazing player with this game but I'm doing a Nightmare run now and it's not too difficult to me.

Haha, your mom does sound pretty cool Monica83, funny story.

Well, if statistics showed they aren't making it past Ostergar, then I would figure they are getting stumped by the ogre battle.  Everything before that can be piece meal managed.  The ogre though would be difficult for a newcomer who isn't familiar with options like kiting.

Inspired by Wynne, my mom also took over the mouse a few times.  However, she had two back seat drivers whenever she did.

[Gatt9]

Otterwarden wrote...

Ryllen Laerth Kriel wrote...

A fair share of people who seem to think DA:O was too difficult either were new to RPGs or were playing on the terrible port to consoles which had some pretty bad control schemes. I'm not some sort of amazing player with this game but I'm doing a Nightmare run now and it's not too difficult to me.

Haha, your mom does sound pretty cool Monica83, funny story.

Well, if statistics showed they aren't making it past Ostergar, then I would figure they are getting stumped by the ogre battle.  Everything before that can be piece meal managed.  The ogre though would be difficult for a newcomer who isn't familiar with options like kiting.

Inspired by Wynne, my mom also took over the mouse a few times.  However, she had two back seat drivers whenever she did.

That's actually a good point.

I'm an experienced gamer,  no stranger to tactics and reacting to situations,  and I had to replay that battle 3-4 times.  So did my friend playing on her X-box.  That first boss battle was a challenge.  IIRC,  I did get through it by kiting him,  and advised my friend to do the same.

Which kind of proves my point on the futility of datamining specific Achievements when they're meaningless without context.  Datamining out that alot of people quit playing at point X is completely useless without knowing what it was about X that made people quit.  Was it a rental?  Was it a battle?  Was it mechanics?  The data is useless without that context.

That's the major problem with the latest trend of datamining Achievements, Lots of developers now feel it's invalueable data.  But the data is completely without context,  and so generally pretty useless.  The only meaning that can be derived is what the viewer wants to see.

The sad part is,  this is all just Stat 1000,  in the first couple of chapters,  long discussion on how datamining must be done with data that doesn't require context to make sense. 

The correct way of doing it is Mass Effect.  If only 10% of the players got the "60 missions with Ashley" achievement,  you can be pretty certain she wasn't a popular character.  That's data that has meaning without context.

[Teredan]

Bioware should put a survey after the ending credits in their games for additional and hopefully more usefull datamining. I mean you'd think that people that cared to finish their games would take the time to answer one of these?

[sympathy4saren]

The original Dragon Age was perfect in regard to difficulty, in my opinion.

[Otterwarden]

Gatt9 wrote...

The correct way of doing it is Mass Effect.  If only 10% of the players got the "60 missions with Ashley" achievement,  you can be pretty certain she wasn't a popular character.  That's data that has meaning without context.

Yes, but you wouldn't be able to answer whether she was shunned because of her manly looks or her xenophobic tendencies?  Fundamentally, I don't think I like this "Big Brother" monitoring influencing how the game is developed.

That ogre battle was tough.  I made it through on my first go, but only with some really cheesy manuevers.

[Paper420]

Sleek wrote...

why im resenting Biowares new game and marketing directions are because, they truly feel like they are catering to 10 to 13 year olds . Which is the age of MOST console gamers .

When it comes to online FPS games this is true but not true when it comes to the whole console community gamers.

I don't know 1 kid that plays DAO,DA2 because they find it boring or just to hard.

[Fishy]

JoshPloof wrote...

Flayling wrote...

Me personally? Dragon Age Origins was a brilliant game, but I'm a hardcore gamer. I could easily handle all the complex situations.

..... Now let's analyze my best friend's gaming style.  He is not video game savy.  He installed Dragon Age and absolutely loved the game.  But....

1. He kept dieing on casual mode over & over & over again.
2. He didnt' even know that you can have four party members.
3. He had no idea that you could equip new armor and weapons for your hero or companions
4. He never looted anything off corpses
5. He had no idea there was a "party camp".
6. He skipped through dialogue to get to the "action".

The list goes on and on. Sadly these types of gamers make up a majority of Bioware's consumers.

Before I saw my friend play Dragon Age Origins I thought Bioware was completely retarded in how they designed DA2. But after seeing my friend play Dragon Age Origins I understand why Bioware made DA2 the way they did.

Basically Bioware is catering to people who have no clue about video games and have no idea what an RPG is. Sad but true.......

Everything Mike Laidlaw or any of the other bioware employees say MAKES PERFECT sense when I compare their comments to how retarded my friend played Dragon Age Origins.

Food for thought.

Is your friend braindead? I remember I got Dragon Age Origins with NO knowledge of what it was at ALL I didn't hear about it, never saw any commercials, just saw it in the store one day and decided to go for it. As soon as I popped it in I knew exactly what to do, it was pretty damn user-friendly if you have any video gaming experience at all.

You don't need to be mean or elitist .A lot of gamer can be quite challenged by the amount of information you can find in older RPG or MMORPG.My sister wanted to play the Sims 3 but was stunned by the amount of thing she had to learn.It's was simply too much for her and not worth her time.

Video game it's more about 'I WANT ' rather than ' MY IQ' just like so many other thing in life.But bioware are wrong to think that they should build their game for the ' I don't want' .

When i played daoc i could go through a tutorial of 100 page about doing RAIDS .Hell i actually was quite into TL and that took a retarded amount of time just to gather information about some class mechanic.

I would never do that again .. But i love my RPG  to be difficult with lot of information and thing to learn.
Divinity 2 was quite good  for a game without the old dungeons and dragon ruleset.

[Otterwarden]

Teredan wrote...

Bioware should put a survey after the ending credits in their games for additional and hopefully more usefull datamining. I mean you'd think that people that cared to finish their games would take the time to answer one of these?

That's really not a bad idea, but it should also be made a button on the menu page so that those who aren't in the mood to answer it upon completion can easily access it when they are.

Modifié par Otterwarden, 17 avril 2011 - 07:12 .

[Priisus]

mdugger12 wrote...

I don't think it's about lacking the ability to learn, I think that casual gamers or even gamers that aren't hardcore RPG fans don't want to go through hours of tutorials before they can start enjoying a game. It's a hurdle that Bioware faced in trying to share the DA universe with more people. I don't see that as being wrong, it's something worth sharing with the world. Still, I totally understand how some fans are disappointed that DA 2 isn't quite the love letter to RPG fans that DA:O was.

That^

I actually have seen friends worse than OP's... One of my friend was only auto attacking the whole time and after that target died, he wasn't targeting a new enemy... I was like use the damn abilities lol, you realized there are reasons for classes right? I have seen a lot of people get frustrated by DAO's combat system to the point that they said f*** it and quit the game even when playing on casual. And these people want to try their hands playing this game. There is always a first RPG for everybody and DAO is definitely a hard title for it.

I think what DA2 did that destroys a lot for the "hardcore gamers" is that hard & nightmare was just enemies with more health, hence it is more tedious and not challenging? I remembered getting one random encounter in Origins where I didn't realize there was an enemy mage and my whole party got wiped.

Then again, I'm wondering if the majority of DA2 disgruntlers are PC gamers? My friend got me DAO and DAA as a gift for the XBox and naturally I got DA2 for it too. But then I was at another friend's house the other day and tried DAO on PC, and the overhead camera just gives another whole feel to the game. Tried my hands at DA2 demo for both 360 and PC, got to say DA2's new systems starts off awkward for DAO PC users imo.

[Priisus]

Gatt9 wrote...

The correct way of doing it is Mass Effect.  If only 10% of the players got the "60 missions with Ashley" achievement,  you can be pretty certain she wasn't a popular character.  That's data that has meaning without context.

class choice? We all know by now that soldier seems to be the most popular class... that being said... why have a 2nd party member who is a weaker duplicate of Shepard

When I'm doing a soldier playthrough in ME1, I never bring Ash because uhh... I like more biotics and engineers in my team, adds more fun and flexibilty imo... rather than "everybody shoot" lol...

[Firky]

Priisus wrote...
I think what DA2 did that destroys a lot for the "hardcore gamers" is that hard & nightmare was just enemies with more health, hence it is more tedious and not challenging? \\

I just don't get this argument. I'm not trying to be confrontational, I just really don't understand it. I'm starting to wonder if it's something people are just parrotting around here without actually trying to get into nightmare past a cursory try.

I'm finding DAII on nightmare way, way harder than DA:O. The only battle which stumped me in DA:O on nightmare was Redcliffe. Sure, enemies are hardy. But, I'm only lvl 9 so far, and I can take down commanders very quickly now. Stuff like explosive strike is very powerful, if you can look after your rogue long enough - which requires tactics.

Bosses can have a zillion HP, but they aren't necessarily tedious. Depends whether there is anyone else in the battle and exactly what the bosses abilities are.

[Priisus]

Firky wrote...

I'm finding DAII on nightmare way, way harder than DA:O. The only battle which stumped me in DA:O on nightmare was Redcliffe. Sure, enemies are hardy. But, I'm only lvl 9 so far, and I can take down commanders very quickly now. Stuff like explosive strike is very powerful, if you can look after your rogue long enough - which requires tactics.

Bosses can have a zillion HP, but they aren't necessarily tedious. Depends whether there is anyone else in the battle and exactly what the bosses abilities are.

That sir is what a lot of the complaints I saw in the forums (not from my personal experience) so I can't really answer that. Plus I haven't tried DA2 Nightmare, only Hard. I don't necessarily find it more tedious on Hard than Normal. Maybe just general waves after waves of enemies with more health and not necessarily boss fights? I thought the end boss at Act 1 was actually fun and a lot of it does not factor the fact that it has a lot of health. I'm trying a nightmare playthrough once they fix a certain companion's rivalry ending bug, I'm glad to hear some poeple find nightmare challenging, definitely going to try it.

[Firky]

Priisus wrote...

That sir is what a lot of the complaints I saw in the forums (not from my personal experience) so I can't really answer that. Plus I haven't tried DA2 Nightmare, only Hard.

I'd recommend trying it. I struggled at about level 6, before the first spec point, but after that it's been really fun. (And I'm as old school, classic RPG as it gets.)

This forum does drive me slightly bonkers, because someone says something like "bosses are tedious" and then everyone else runs with it. Then it sounds like everyone has played on nightmare and come to the same conclusion, when it might have just been one or two people.