161 réponses à ce sujet

[the_one_54321]

Flayling wrote...
The list goes on and on. Sadly these types of gamers make up a majority of Bioware's consumers.

And they suck. Forget them, and their money. End of story. <_<

[SkittlesKat96]

 Yeah as much as I don't like to say it toning down some of the Rpg depth for Dragon Age II was kind of necessary.

Although I think they can still have lots of Rpg depth but they just need to make Casual mode more easier, and casual mode actually is easier in Dragon Age II which is good.

[Boh22]

You know it's just money.

[Macrake]

Trying to get the casual crowd and the core crowd isnt gonna work. Decide on one or make two different games.

[Tirigon]

SkittlesKat96 wrote...

 Yeah as much as I don't like to say it toning down some of the Rpg depth for Dragon Age II was kind of necessary.

No it wasnt. They should instead have made a RPG for RPG FANS!!!! instead of trying to get others to play the game...

[mdugger12]

Firky wrote...

Priisus wrote...

That sir is what a lot of the complaints I saw in the forums (not from my personal experience) so I can't really answer that. Plus I haven't tried DA2 Nightmare, only Hard.

I'd recommend trying it. I struggled at about level 6, before the first spec point, but after that it's been really fun. (And I'm as old school, classic RPG as it gets.)

This forum does drive me slightly bonkers, because someone says something like "bosses are tedious" and then everyone else runs with it. Then it sounds like everyone has played on nightmare and come to the same conclusion, when it might have just been one or two people.

I totally agree.

After playing on nightmare myself I really wasn't understanding how nobody was finding it challenging. I had the same experience as you right before the spec point. But it seemed alot of people that comment would complain that it wasn't a challenge at all and wouldn't even have a single party member in danger of falling. While that may very well be true for some I find it hard to believe that the overwhelming majority had the same experience. Well, unless the use of alternative tactics are at play. But who knows.

[mdugger12]

Tirigon wrote...

SkittlesKat96 wrote...

 Yeah as much as I don't like to say it toning down some of the Rpg depth for Dragon Age II was kind of necessary.

No it wasnt. They should instead have made a RPG for RPG FANS!!!! instead of trying to get others to play the game...

How is this not a game for RPG fans? It certainly isn't for the CoD or FIFA crowd.

[Tirigon]

mdugger12 wrote...

How is this not a game for RPG fans? It certainly isn't for the CoD or FIFA crowd.

True, but it´s not for RPG fans either, as the forums should prove you.

I suppose it is a game for people with bad taste, high pain tolerance or both  :-/

[Firky]

mdugger12 wrote...

But it seemed alot of people that comment would complain that it wasn't a challenge at all and wouldn't even have a single party member in danger of falling.

So far, this is my favourite moment of my NM playthrough.



The music thinned out to that one dissonant chord and I fought back from this screenshot to win! Through tears, dammit. I was like, "No way, man. You can't have my Hawke and Carver."

I loved Origins, but I never had that kind of experience with combat. Redcliffe was the only battle I had to play more than a couple of times on nightmare. (I am kind of a combat junkie.)

[mdugger12]

Firky wrote...

So far, this is my favourite moment of my NM playthrough.



The music thinned out to that one dissonant chord and I fought back from this screenshot to win! Through tears, dammit. I was like, "No way, man. You can't have my Hawke and Carver."

I loved Origins, but I never had that kind of experience with combat. Redcliffe was the only battle I had to play more than a couple of times on nightmare. (I am kind of a combat junkie.)

LOL Immediately when I saw this I began nodding my head in agreement. Same here. Things would fall apart, everything would look hopeless, and through nothing but sheer will you pull it off.

Modifié par mdugger12, 17 avril 2011 - 12:14 .

[PinkShoes]

DAO wasnt too hard he was just playing the WRONG genere of game.

Simple.

[abaris]

SkittlesKat96 wrote...

 Yeah as much as I don't like to say it toning down some of the Rpg depth for Dragon Age II was kind of necessary.

Why? They made a cute fortune with DAO. Will those folks, who don't even understand its a party based game make up for the loss on the other side?

I guess not, since they're like locusts, looking for the next shiny bubble on the horizon and they're really not into RPGs, as fast paced as the might be on the outside.

Creating a hybrid has been tried quite often. But it never worked out, since you're losing on both ends. Just look at Molineux and his movies.

[mdugger12]

abaris wrote...

SkittlesKat96 wrote...

 Yeah as much as I don't like to say it toning down some of the Rpg depth for Dragon Age II was kind of necessary.

Why? They made a cute fortune with DAO. Will those folks, who don't even understand its a party based game make up for the loss on the other side?

I guess not, since they're like locusts, looking for the next shiny bubble on the horizon and they're really not into RPGs, as fast paced as the might be on the outside.

Creating a hybrid has been tried quite often. But it never worked out, since you're losing on both ends. Just look at Molineux and his movies.

DA:O was a success because it had appeal outside of the "old school RPG" market. It didn't sell 3.2 million on consoles because it was some spiritual successor to BG2. The reasons you loved DA:O isn't necessarily the same reasons everyone else did and they aren't more valid either.  

[Alex Kershaw]

To add to the discussion...

I found Origins really difficult the first time I played through it. I actually turned it down from Normal to easy/casual (forgot what it's called in Origins) because Haven was really hard (I think I went there a bit early). I used automatic levelling on my first playthrough because everything was a bit overwhelming and so specialisations confused me because on automatic levelling you don't get specialisations, so I didn't understand the references to it.

Since then, DAO has become my favourite game ever and I've completed it on Nightmare, got every achievement, etc. So I don't think only casual players found DAO too hard - Normal difficulty simply was too difficult on PC. For the record, I give DAO a 10/10 and DA2 a 7.5/10.

EDIT: Lots of people are saying DAO was too easy because if you pull off specific combo X with characters Y using items Z then on nightmare it's simple. Fact of the matter is, unless you look online before-hand which is just spoiler-icious then you're not going to know about these on your first play through. If you did, then that's your fault. I personally think Nightmare was too easy on Origins because for Nightmare, you're expected to have researched strategies. Normal difficulty, however, on a first playthrough, was a bit too hard on PC. I didn't see it as a big problem though - just turn the difficulty down. No big issue...

Modifié par Alex Kershaw, 17 avril 2011 - 03:46 .

[Vic George 2011]

That seems to be the problem: make a game in the series that's accessible to everyone and you alienate long-time fans of that particular genre, or make a game in the series that's only accessible to the fans of that genre and you alienate everyone else who might be interested in what you have to offer. Trying to open up the audience while also trying to please the long-time fans is going to get complaints from both ends: the newbies will say that the game is too difficult and the long-time fans will say that the game is too easy and dumbed-down.

[LyndseyCousland]

Origins was too difficult? News to me.
Difficult for lobotomised people, maybe.

[evilhouseboat]

I agree with a lot of the posts in this thread.

I think people often forget the challenges they first faced when playing games. Many of us have been playing games for over 15 years. 15 YEARS of playing games means that we're more or less experts at gaming.

However, people new to gaming do not have that vast experience.

It's a huge challenge for Bioware or anyone to cater to all the different demographics with such a complex genre as RPGs.

When I read some of the reactions I think of immigrants to Canada and some folks reactions to their poor English. Some of the comments read like "we shouldn't have to spend time and effort catering to their language because English is an easy language to learn."

[abaris]

evilhouseboat wrote...

However, people new to gaming do not have that vast experience.

It's a huge challenge for Bioware or anyone to cater to all the different demographics with such a complex genre as RPGs.

 

I'm repeating myself when I say: It's possible for a noob to leave certain aspects out if it gets to complex or complicated. But its not possible to add features that haven't been included to begin with. So, a game being reduced for the sake of attracting noobs, caters to noobs, since someone loving complexity won't find what they're looking for.

[thermalware]

So you're saying DA2 suffers from the Lowest Common Demoniator (LCD) syndrome

[Akka le Vil]

If people just want to look at a movie, maybe they shouldn't bother to play games.
But it's completely stupid to dumb down games 'till they don't require to be actually played. Or just become a movie maker instead of a game developper.

[mav805]

mdugger12 wrote...

DA:O was a success because it had appeal outside of the "old school RPG" market. It didn't sell 3.2 million on consoles because it was some spiritual successor to BG2...

Yes it did. I played BG2 when I was 14 and when I saw what Bioware was creating DA:O it instantly became my most anticipated game of the year, so I picked it up on Xbox because I don't have a gaming computer. Maybe not everybody has that experience but I'm sure plenty of console RPGers had at least heard about  the lore, history and sense of achievment that was realized in BG and it drove them to try Origins.

[Whisky]

Games like Dragon Age Origins are pretty new to me. I found Origins a bit hard in my first playthrough (on Normal), and my Warden and his companions kept dying very quickly. But I knew there must be something about this game that I haven't understand, so after a quick Google search, I learned about threats/aggro and related skills. Then I beat Origins in Normal, then Hard, then Nightmare with no effort at all. I was extremely happy with it.
Learning how to play a game like Origins can be VERY interesting. I can't believe what they did to DA2

Oh, and you know what REALLY attracted me to this series? Tactical camera. The first time I saw it on Youtube, I was like "Wow, nice viewing angle!". I love how it allows me to observe the whole battlefield and accurately place my AoE marker. Why they removed it in DA2 is beyond me.

Modifié par Whisky, 22 avril 2011 - 06:54 .

[bzombo]

LyndseyCousland wrote...

Origins was too difficult? News to me.
Difficult for lobotomised people, maybe.

snobbish responses like this are a major problem with rpgs today. too many think rpgs are just for them. well, good luck finding games to play. this is why pc games are getting fewer and fewer. too many people with entitlement issues and thinking they're better/smarter than anyone who finds a game hard that they don't. congratulations. you're special.

[Melca36]

bzombo wrote...

LyndseyCousland wrote...

Origins was too difficult? News to me.
Difficult for lobotomised people, maybe.

snobbish responses like this are a major problem with rpgs today. too many think rpgs are just for them. well, good luck finding games to play. this is why pc games are getting fewer and fewer. too many people with entitlement issues and thinking they're better/smarter than anyone who finds a game hard that they don't. congratulations. you're special.

You know a great many things can be said about the core of console gamers who want everything handed to them in their games. It goes BOTH ways.

And PC games will NEVER die.

[bzombo]

evilhouseboat wrote...

I agree with a lot of the posts in this thread.

I think people often forget the challenges they first faced when playing games. Many of us have been playing games for over 15 years. 15 YEARS of playing games means that we're more or less experts at gaming.

However, people new to gaming do not have that vast experience.

It's a huge challenge for Bioware or anyone to cater to all the different demographics with such a complex genre as RPGs.

When I read some of the reactions I think of immigrants to Canada and some folks reactions to their poor English. Some of the comments read like "we shouldn't have to spend time and effort catering to their language because English is an easy language to learn."

exactly. now let's take it a step further. think of the highest selling games of all time. now how far down do you have to go to find bioware's highest selling game of all time? pretty far down. bioware is successful, but they cater to a niche market. niche markets only sell so much. making a game more mainstream helps sales and thus more future products. baldur's gate 2, considered by many to be one of the top rpgs made, sold what? 2 million? so, dragon age 2 is dumbed down from an already dumbed down dao. why? to sell more. you don't sell, you don't survive. and 2 million pc sales for a single player rpg does not happen much anymore. heck, dao was only a little over 1 million. developers need a good game that can be sold across multiple platforms to cover costs of a AAA game. it's just how things are.