671 réponses à ce sujet

[Zeratul20]

The Angry One wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

Merci357 wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

I shall remain eternally hopeful in that regard then. And be constantly disappointed, no doubt. >.>

See the bright side.
If you ever roleplay a male PC in a RPG from now on, just don't be polite, and you are doing it perfect! :innocent:

Great advice, thank you! It's a free license to be a complete douche, I understand perfectly now. >:3

Also, you must yell "I AM A MAN!" and punch people in the face.

But... But... I don't LIKE being a total douche!   EDIT: Looks like I'm late to the party. Don't mind me, then, I'm just a charging Krogan.

Modifié par Zeratul20, 19 avril 2011 - 06:29 .

[Serelir]

I think some men are just more comfortable or interested in seeing things from another perspective, whereas others feel that their identity is threatened. Masculinity seems very fragile to me. Women grow up learning to put themselves in a male protagonist's view, whereas it's only recently that we have the choice of gender for videogames. I was having a discussion about literature with a teacher, and we were hard-pressed to find a work on the AP reading list that was from a female perspective and not about her relationship to men. In an article about the so-called crisis of boys falling behind in school, they said that boys were less likely to read a book if it had a girl on the cover. It didn't matter to girls what was on the cover.

So, T&A aside, kudos to the men who are adventurous enough to try out a different role. For those who are not, well, now that I have a choice, I usually pick a female character so that I feel more immersed in the game. But I've played as men, too. I'm not really sure if my male characters are gay or straight though *laughs*

I do get the typical propositions in MMORPGs when guys hear my voice, but "No, I'm old enough to be your mom," usually does the trick.

[Davasar]

I think it is wholly unfair that you had to play as a man, and that given a choice, you play as a woman for the best immersion as you said.

Thus it is with myself and many others. It has nothing to do with the false perception of the fragility of masculinity.

For immersion reason I want to play as a man because I am male. I like women, a lot. I am fascinated by how they move and think and act and I like all types of them.  But this stems from a primal, attraction basis... not wanting to be one.

It also means I do not want to play as one either. The fascination of how they go about things is due to the fact that how they think is a mystery to me, and that adds to the intrigue.

There is also another factor which many will not talk about, but I shall try to shed some light on it here.

It's simply this: Men are vicious to each other. When we sense weakness in another, he is torn down without mercy unless he can show he can stand up to the attacks he will receive.

And even then, he will be diminished among his peers for taking such a 'weak' choice, whatever the situation.

Weakness among men is not tolerated, period. Thus, showing that you want to play a female for escapism and wish fulfillment means you are less of a man.

You are a man. Why do you wish you could be a woman, even for a little while?

How much less of a man for seeking this wish fulfillment? Who knows, hence the harsh litmus test.

Men must be strong, resolute, determined and never weak.

If they do not meet the above criteria, then they aren't men, or at least not top tier men.

That is the perception and in many cases the harsh reality.

Modifié par Davasar, 19 avril 2011 - 04:43 .

[Serelir]

Davasar wrote...

Men must be strong, resolute, determined and never weak.

If they do not meet the above criteria, then they aren't men, or at least not top tier men.

That is the perception and in many cases the harsh reality.

So does that mean that female characters can't be strong, resolute, determined and never weak? If a man isn't these things, then he automatically becomes a woman, even if he retains a Y chromosome? 

I had hoped we'd progressed beyond this attitude. I'm just glad my male partner is bi. He never worries about being "top tier."

Anyway, this does clarify why some men won't play a female character.

[Carfax]

Davasar wrote...

I think it is wholly unfair that you had to play as a man, and that given a choice, you play as a woman for the best immersion as you said.

Thus it is with myself and many others. It has nothing to do with the false perception of the fragility of masculinity.

For immersion reason I want to play as a man because I am male. I like women, a lot. I am fascinated by how they move and think and act and I like all types of them.  But this stems from a primal, attraction basis... not wanting to be one.

It also means I do not want to play as one either. The fascination of how they go about things is due to the fact that how they think is a mystery to me, and that adds to the intrigue.

There is also another factor which many will not talk about, but I shall try to shed some light on it here.

It's simply this: Men are vicious to each other. When we sense weakness in another, he is torn down without mercy unless he can show he can stand up to the attacks he will receive.

And even then, he will be diminished among his peers for taking such a 'weak' choice, whatever the situation.

Weakness among men is not tolerated, period. Thus, showing that you want to play a female for escapism and wish fulfillment means you are less of a man.

You are a man. Why do you wish you could be a woman, even for a little while?

How much less of a man for seeking this wish fulfillment? Who knows, hence the harsh litmus test.

Men must be strong, resolute, determined and never weak.

If they do not meet the above criteria, then they aren't men, or at least not top tier men.

That is the perception and in many cases the harsh reality.

Good post.  Saves me the time of writing it myself..

All in all, it comes down to having weak gender identity.  A man that has strong gender identity will not play as a woman if given the choice, and will probably feel strange doing so......unless he has absolutely no connection towards the character at all.. 

If his gender identity is weak however, he will probably prefer to play as a female and create a number of "excuses" in order to justify doing so; usually something a long the lines of,"I'd rather look at a female pixelated ass than a male pixelated ass."

Which is ridiculous of course and makes them look seriously pathetic, as no normal person would be sexually titilated by pixelated asses whether male or female, much less look at one for extended hours..

Masculinity or manliness has always been a fairly rigid concept in Western culture..  Men that deviate from the norm are punished by their peers severely.  In today's "anything goes" culture however, we are starting to see a lot more flexibility, which is both good and bad I think.

[Carfax]

Tuilinn Celeborne wrote...
So does that mean that female characters can't be strong, resolute, determined and never weak? If a man isn't these things, then he automatically becomes a woman, even if he retains a Y chromosome? 

I had hoped we'd progressed beyond this attitude. I'm just glad my male partner is bi. He never worries about being "top tier."

Anyway, this does clarify why some men won't play a female character.

Weakness and submission has historically been associated with femininity, while strength and domination with masculinity. 

It's a rather simplistic view given that both men and women are capable of both in equal measure, but then again, no man is the perfect representation of masculinity nor is any woman the perfect representation of femininity.

We all possess a measure of the opposite sex within ourselves..

[Laurelinde]

Carfax wrote...

Weakness and submission has historically been associated with femininity, while strength and domination with masculinity. 

And for a couple hundred years, pink was associated with boys and blue was associated with girls (as pink was next to red, which was 'stronger' than blue.)  Now it's the opposite.  So what?  Some of us are pretty damn tired of this rubbish, because in the end, this kind of hypermasculine construct isn't beneficial to anyone, male or female.

Evopsych is...yeah.  There's a reason we don't live like cavemen anymore, people: it kinda sucked.

[Davasar]

Tuilinn Celeborne wrote...

Davasar wrote...

Men must be strong, resolute, determined and never weak.

If they do not meet the above criteria, then they aren't men, or at least not top tier men.

That is the perception and in many cases the harsh reality.

So does that mean that female characters can't be strong, resolute, determined and never weak? If a man isn't these things, then he automatically becomes a woman, even if he retains a Y chromosome? 

I had hoped we'd progressed beyond this attitude. I'm just glad my male partner is bi. He never worries about being "top tier."

Anyway, this does clarify why some men won't play a female character.

That's not at all what I said.  You are reading quite a bit into this.

Anyway, I am glad I could clarify this.

[Captain_Obvious]

Carfax wrote...

All in all, it comes down to having weak gender identity.  A man that has strong gender identity will not play as a woman if given the choice, and will probably feel strange doing so......unless he has absolutely no connection towards the character at all.. 

I think you have this exactly backwards.  In my experience, men with strong gender identities are not threatened by female characters in games.  They are confident enough in their own sexuality so that the assumption of the role of a virtual female character, especially in games where that is your only option, does not cause them to question their own sexual identities. 

[Carfax]

Laurelinde wrote...

And for a couple hundred years, pink was associated with boys and blue was associated with girls (as pink was next to red, which was 'stronger' than blue.)  Now it's the opposite.  So what?  Some of us are pretty damn tired of this rubbish, because in the end, this kind of hypermasculine construct isn't beneficial to anyone, male or female.

Evopsych is...yeah.  There's a reason we don't live like cavemen anymore, people: it kinda sucked.

I'm just a player like everyone else, I didn't make the rules. 
 
And I agree that hypermasculinity isn't necessarily a good thing, but what I'm talking about is gender identity which is different.

It's healthy and normal for men to identify with their own gender moreso than they do with women, and vice versa. 
Men that identify more with the opposite sex, tend to exhibit behaviours that most people would find abnormal.....which is why this topic inevitably generates this sort of debate.

[The Angry One]

Otterwarden wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Funnily enough I have always used female avatars in MMOs, and never had any problems.
Perhaps they assume I'm male, or maybe I've avoided a lot of idiots.

Umm, that, or they are afraid of your spiked boot collection

Can't argue with that notion.

[Darkhour]

okrane_silver wrote...

What the hell is with all these dudes playing female characters in a Role Playing Game?

 

Wow, another spam thread that is 20+ pages long. What a surprise.

[aliswann10]

The reason I'll play a female in some RPG's is because the movie Aliens. It should that a women could be a bad @ss just like a man and it was a different approach and feel. Men are the heroes in 95% of most movies or videogames anyways.
I wanted something different that I felt most guys wouldn't do. I played ME 1 first with a male Shepard but my subsequent Shepard was a female that I carried into ME 2 and will finish ME 3 with. All my characters for DA O were males but I just recently started another playthrough with a femalehuman noble to have a different experience. I scraped that and went back to my Dalish elf just to be consistent.  I see absolutely nothing wrong with a guy playing a female character in an RPG or vice versa. It's a matter of choice.

[Carfax]

Captain_Obvious wrote...

I think you have this exactly backwards.  In my experience, men with strong gender identities are not threatened by female characters in games.  They are confident enough in their own sexuality so that the assumption of the role of a virtual female character, especially in games where that is your only option, does not cause them to question their own sexual identities. 

You conveniently missed out the part where I said,"unless he has no connection with the character at all."

Basically, if you do not identify with the character you are playing at all, then none of this applies to you, because you are detached.

For example, I myself love the Tomb Raider games....always have.  However, I always play as a male when given the opportunity..

This may sound contradictory but it's not, because when I play as Lara Croft, I'm playing in a detached state.  I have no personal connection with the character at all, I'm just controlling her.

Now with my MaleShep or MaleHawke it's a bit different.  They are extensions of my own personality in many ways, and I roleplay them as if I were them therefore I have a personal connection with those characters.

Modifié par Carfax, 19 avril 2011 - 05:44 .

[Dark83]

Carfax wrote...

This may sound contradictory but it's not, because when I play as Lara Croft, I'm playing in a detached state.  I have no personal connection with the character at all, I'm just controlling her.

Now with my MaleShep or MaleHawke it's a bit different.  They are extensions of my own personality in many ways, and I roleplay them as if I were them therefore I have a personal connection with those characters.

This is my feelings as well.

Certain games I'm guiding "someone else", like the Assassin from back in Diablo. In such cases I can be as evil, random, and female as anyone. Certain games I see the protagonist as an extension of myself, in which case he'd have to be male, and generally a sap nice guy.

[wyvernix]

Eh, I'm the opposite. As a female player who predominantly plays male characters, I can say that guys playing female characters doesn't bug me. To me, it opens up a different perspective when it comes to roleplaying; You can create a persona that is entirely unlike your own, with their own weaknesses, strengths, baggage, and personality to boot. I find it refreshing to distance yourself from, well, "yourself" when it comes to gaming/roleplaying. I guess you could say I like exploring the other end of the spectrum, for what it's worth.

To those that find playing the opposite gender uncomfortable, well, then by all means they're entitled to it. People are allowed to like/dislike what they will.

Modifié par wyvernix, 19 avril 2011 - 05:55 .

[The Angry One]

aliswann10 wrote...

The reason I'll play a female in some RPG's is because the movie Aliens. It should that a women could be a bad @ss just like a man and it was a different approach and feel. Men are the heroes in 95% of most movies or videogames anyways.

Heh. I bet if Hollywood ever remade Aliens they'd put a man in the lead.
Because as we all know women can't be leads in movies unless she's a sex symbol in a bikini. You know, despite Alien and Aliens being all time classics. Phlft.

[abaris]

Laurelinde wrote...

And for a couple hundred years, pink was associated with boys and blue was associated with girls (as pink was next to red, which was 'stronger' than blue.)  Now it's the opposite.  So what?  Some of us are pretty damn tired of this rubbish, because in the end, this kind of hypermasculine construct isn't beneficial to anyone, male or female.

Evopsych is...yeah.  There's a reason we don't live like cavemen anymore, people: it kinda sucked.

Thanks, this saved me the time to come up with a reply of my own - I was actually pondering how to phrase caveman without it being too insulting.

[mykeme]

 If there's ever a cooking RPG released with multiple gender choices I'll pick female because it's canon.



Problem, feminist?

Modifié par mykeme, 19 avril 2011 - 06:00 .

[randName]

The Angry One wrote...

aliswann10 wrote...

The reason I'll play a female in some RPG's is because the movie Aliens. It should that a women could be a bad @ss just like a man and it was a different approach and feel. Men are the heroes in 95% of most movies or videogames anyways.

Heh. I bet if Hollywood ever remade Aliens they'd put a man in the lead.
Because as we all know women can't be leads in movies unless she's a sex symbol in a bikini. You know, despite Alien and Aliens being all time classics. Phlft.

Sadly true, goes for games as well to a large extent - even games like Metroid are now getting ruined (with metroid M).

[The Angry One]

mykeme wrote...

 If there's ever a cooking RPG released with multiple gender choices I'll pick female because it's canon.

Yeah, Gordon Ramsay wants a word with you.

randName wrote...

Sadly true, goes for games as well to a large extent - even games like Metroid are now getting ruined (with metroid M).

You know when even Yahtzee who makes a living out of being a misogynist troll thinks your game is too damn sexist, you've gone too far. 

Modifié par The Angry One, 19 avril 2011 - 06:13 .

[randName]

The Angry One wrote...

mykeme wrote...

 If there's ever a cooking RPG released with multiple gender choices I'll pick female because it's canon.

Yeah, Gordon Ramsay wants a word with you.

Actually we just discovered that he is either non-canon or in disguise ~ 

Troll or not, the sad thing is that it's pretty much true, with games like DA or ME acting as if the male character is canon (ME at least), something too common in optional cRPGs, or they could easily have sold in both characters as Canon, or decide from game to game.

Modifié par randName, 19 avril 2011 - 06:16 .

[Warheadz]

randName wrote...

Sadly true, goes for games as well to a large extent - even games like Metroid are now getting ruined (with metroid M).

That's one of the bull**** pillars that keep our current culture up. Don't know about eastern as I don't have enough knowledge, but I would guess it's pretty much the same over there. I am personally completely tired of this bull****, and I am even more tired of women who follow it. Every form of media even reinforces the crap that women must look like this, they must act like this. This is appropriate, this is not. This is what they must be like, this they must not be.

It's like a disease that has taken over the world.

And screw you people, I am a white straight male, and I am not a feminist. I'm just not so ****ing blind to this crap that surrounds us.

[The Angry One]

randName wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

mykeme wrote...

 If there's ever a cooking RPG released with multiple gender choices I'll pick female because it's canon.

Yeah, Gordon Ramsay wants a word with you.

Actually we just discovered that he is either non-canon or in disguise ~ 

Troll or not, the sad thing is that it's pretty much true, with games like DA or ME acting as if the male character is canon (ME at least), something too common in optional cRPGs, or they could easily have sold in both characters as Canon, or decide from game to game.

Nah, in ME/DA's case it's to me entirely a marketing issue. Which is part of the problem, there is no reason why the female character shouldn't be in the promotions/box art/wall papers. I've always taken a dim view of BioWare's marketing department.
However in the games themselves the posterboy is little more than default, there is no canon other than personal canon. And I have spiked boots prepared for those who say otherwise!

I know a lot of maleShep players who resent that Sheploo guy too.