671 réponses à ce sujet

[Abispa]

To be honest, I find that the VA in recent Bioware games is usually much better with the female characters. Meer is okay, but once you get used to Hale, it's hard to go back to male Shepard. I found the Hawke VAs to be close though. Now the thing that bothers me is that when I play a male, all the love interests jump all over me, and when I'm playing female it seems that I'm allowed to start or shoot down a romance more easily.

[randName]

Warheadz wrote...

randName wrote...

Sadly true, goes for games as well to a large extent - even games like Metroid are now getting ruined (with metroid M).

That's one of the bull**** pillars that keep our current culture up. Don't know about eastern as I don't have enough knowledge, but I would guess it's pretty much the same over there. I am personally completely tired of this bull****, and I am even more tired of women who follow it. Every form of media even reinforces the crap that women must look like this, they must act like this. This is appropriate, this is not. This is what they must be like, this they must not be.

It's like a disease that has taken over the world.

And screw you people, I am a white straight male, and I am not a feminist. I'm just not so ****ing blind to this crap that surrounds us.

Not going to really argue - but if you hold enough views to make you fit into class X, you kind of are anyway - so in general if you fit into the following description "[you are for] establishing and defending equal political, economic, and social rights and equal opportunities for women.[1][2][3]" you kind of are, if you like it or not. It's a bit like you being a liberalist if you hold "the belief in the importance of liberty and equal rights" ~ Obviously you can have conflicting opionions to move you out from one class/group into an other, and you might not call your self X.

For example I don't call myself a feminist, since while I hold the general views of the group it's kind of included in that I'm a liberal progressive socialist, and it's more descriptive, since it would say that I'm pro certain kinds of mesures to establish equality, and not others.

Even if all these groups are so vague that it becomes hard to really say anything, save that I prefer a rather liberal and equal society.

But if someone would ask me if I am a feminist, I would have to say yes since I hold that we should establish equal political, social and economic rights, and defend them if need be.


And it's a wide group, containing many different types of views, some miltiant and very angry, some not - for example in Europe the deadliest terrorist threat is leftist extremism, and as you might have figured I'd be placed on the economic left, but I have very little in common with those who kill people in the name of communism or socialism.


EDIT: and that was some nice venting of anger right there btw. not that Metroid M doesn't deserve all the anger we can muster.

Modifié par randName, 19 avril 2011 - 06:38 .

[randName]

The Angry One wrote...

randName wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

mykeme wrote...

 If there's ever a cooking RPG released with multiple gender choices I'll pick female because it's canon.

Yeah, Gordon Ramsay wants a word with you.

Actually we just discovered that he is either non-canon or in disguise ~ 

Troll or not, the sad thing is that it's pretty much true, with games like DA or ME acting as if the male character is canon (ME at least), something too common in optional cRPGs, or they could easily have sold in both characters as Canon, or decide from game to game.

Nah, in ME/DA's case it's to me entirely a marketing issue. Which is part of the problem, there is no reason why the female character shouldn't be in the promotions/box art/wall papers. I've always taken a dim view of BioWare's marketing department.
However in the games themselves the posterboy is little more than default, there is no canon other than personal canon. And I have spiked boots prepared for those who say otherwise!

I know a lot of maleShep players who resent that Sheploo guy too.

Yes, it's not a huge issue in DA or ME, and BioWare have been good when it comes gender - not that they have taken strong stances on it, but rather in that they have made an almost Utopian world without roles for the PC, even if the reason is probably largely one of economics as well.

Still the PR part is a part of BioWare, and can't land the ire alone.


Personally I prefer a more Mad Men approach to it, with strong gender roles in games, albeit realistic - it's better if it's set in a time that is stigmatised by sexism, and then to place female characters within it - a bit like the tale of Aveline from Orlais, a tragic fate that isn't representative for DA and Thedas no more, which I almost find to be a shame, since it would be more illustrative.

It's like a mod I like for FONV if I play female characters - it makes the misogynists male characters try to use your character or/and Cass and Veronica, it makes the world really oppressive as you have to tell them to **** off again and again, and the worst is when you go to Cesar, as you are stripped of your guns, and if you refuse too often they attack, so you have to avoid the soldiers unless you feel that you can take them on. (Boomers and Legion mostly, some others as well, but they don't take it as bad when you turn them down).

Modifié par randName, 19 avril 2011 - 06:49 .

[julian08]

Abispa wrote...

To be honest, I find that the VA in recent Bioware games is usually much better with the female characters. Meer is okay, but once you get used to Hale, it's hard to go back to male Shepard. I found the Hawke VAs to be close though. Now the thing that bothers me is that when I play a male, all the love interests jump all over me, and when I'm playing female it seems that I'm allowed to start or shoot down a romance more easily.

Right you are. The VA of femshep is a lot better than her male counterpart. However, that excuse falls flat on its face for me, since the last time I played a male character in a BW game for my personal "canon" playthrough was Baldur's Gate II. Don't know why, (flexes muscles) I guess when I'm not juggling burning chainsaws on a pile of broken glass or strangling grizzlies with my bear hands, I like to get in touch with my feminine side. But I still want to set people on fire while I'm doing it.

Modifié par julian08, 19 avril 2011 - 06:45 .

[Warheadz]

Maybe we should stop with the constant urge to categorize people. Why can't we live in an utopia where we can frolick around trees, have our own opinions and discuss about them without someone branding you a PETA-psychopath or a Richie Rich. Maybe we should just strive to do the "right thing" or the "good thing". Not saying that such exist, but you can always dream.

Obviously not aimed at you, randName

[Dark83]

Warheadz wrote...

Why can't we live in an utopia where we can frolick around trees

Because the trees will get jealous.

[The Angry One]

Dark83 wrote...

Warheadz wrote...

Why can't we live in an utopia where we can frolick around trees

Because the trees will get jealous.

What are they going to do? Drop leaves on us?

[ToJKa1]

But those leaves may bugs in them! Maybe even a spider!

[Warheadz]

ToJKa1 wrote...

But those leaves may bugs in them! Maybe even a spider!

We could ask the spiders to frolick with us.

Modifié par Warheadz, 19 avril 2011 - 06:53 .

[ToJKa1]

But what of the arachnophobes? It wont be an utopia if we they can't join in the frolicking.

[The Angry One]

Spiders don't deserve a utopia. They DIE! All of them!

[Warheadz]

ToJKa1 wrote...

But what of the arachnophobes? It wont be an utopia if we they can't join in the frolicking.

[Merci357]

The Angry One wrote...

Spiders don't deserve a utopia. They DIE! All of them!

Sounds reasonable.

[Warheadz]

We could just give the spiders and Arachnophobes some couples counseling.

[randName]

Warheadz wrote...

Maybe we should stop with the constant urge to categorize people. Why can't we live in an utopia where we can frolick around trees, have our own opinions and discuss about them without someone branding you a PETA-psychopath or a Richie Rich. Maybe we should just strive to do the "right thing" or the "good thing". Not saying that such exist, but you can always dream.

Obviously not aimed at you, randName

I agree that there is no point in branding people - I don't want to have a stamp that I'm a liberal progressive socialist, since it varies, and I don't want to be tied down to the description.

But there is a use to descriptions, and if used loosly you don't have to fear them - it's not like if you fall into something that can be described as "happy" at this time, that you would tomorrow, nor is this of interest when we are talking about something else unrelated.

For example if what I classed myself as would be brought up in discussions and situations that are not about issues tied to my political views I would find it detrimental, or that I'm a vegetarian got litttle to do with my stance on what colours we should have for a car.

Just saying that if we discuss feminism it's a bit pointless to claim that you aren't if you do hold those views, or it's a bit like being happy and then claiming you aren't.

It's only when being described as happy when it shouldn't be of importance that it becomes a problem.


And too often this does happen, as when a stamp/brand marks you when it shouldn't - feminism has become tarnished by it, with people now removing themselves from the group who really are feminists but believe that feminism is something else, something more militant and extreme and thus shun it, making it yet more extreme and thrown to the side.

Or if you let those of extremist views take over a class/group that's not good either - as it will be used against the beliefs you actually hold.

And I'm not saying that you are X, nor that if you are you should call yourself X - or I hate it when the first thing I hear from an other vegetarian is that they are vegetarians, it's like a sickness with some, as if they need to tell everyone what they are, especially when they hear that you are the same.


EDIT: Also it was mostly about the tiresome old saying "I'm not X" when somone is actually saying that they are - as in "I'm not happy" when you are grinning like a fool while shining like a sun.

Modifié par randName, 19 avril 2011 - 07:12 .

[ToJKa1]

Warheadz wrote...

ToJKa1 wrote...

But what of the arachnophobes? It wont be an utopia if we they can't join in the frolicking.

And that picture pretty much sums up humanity. Or atleast these forums. Everything someone else says is wrong, especially their opinions.

Modifié par ToJKa1, 19 avril 2011 - 07:06 .

[Dark83]

The Angry One wrote...

What are they going to do? Drop leaves on us?

Sure, make fun of them. You'll just be caught off-guard during the great uprising!

[Spanishcat]

Only read the first page, so I've no idea what's been said or not said.

But it's a stupid question (if indeed it was a genuine one). People play games for a whole variety of reasons; some think about how they associate with their PC, some roleplay, others couldn't give a damn.

I do a little bit of everything; I RP to an extent, and have a lot of fun crafting RP homages (seriously, pick a Rogue in DA2, tweak the eyes and beard/hair, and you have an awesome Logan/Wolverine homage... especially mid-battle, when he's snarling and spattered with blood ).

But a general, knucklehead reason I tend to favour female Hawke's/Shep's (aside from the fact that both games voice actresses destroy their male counterparts) is simply that chicks can be cooler... And this is very subjective, but women can more effectively play around with  (embrace or subvert) gender roles. They can pick from the feminine and masculine, and present more interesting, even more versatile characters as a result. Aesthetically, Fable 2 is a better representation of this, as DA2's customisation choices are extremely limited.

If I could approximate a stat split for female/male character picks, it'd probably be something like 60/40. I tend to vaguely base RP on homages, so that dictates a gender pick. If anyone can figure out a Joss/Astonishing era Kitty Pryde homage in DA2, lemme know... (Spirit Mage maybe?!)

[Warheadz]

I agree with you on the part that people that belong to some group and have a constant need of informing others about it are extremely annoying.

My problem with the branding, grouping and categorizing is that it often prevents good discussions from occuring. At least in my country within the circle of people I have met during my short life. People often take things to extremities.

For example, I was branded a heavy metal absolutist and die hard fan when a couple of guys heard I listen to Slayer, Metallica and Megadeth. After that, no matter what I said about music, people usually didn't care, because I was a heavy metal absolutist to them. Even if I denied it, it would still affect the way people reacted to my comments and such. But when another group of people heard that I really like Franz Schuberts version of Ave Maria (no lyrics), I was suddendly an elitist. After that if I commented on anything regarding any form of art or politics, my opinion was disregarded because I was an elitist at heart to them.

Always when you someone is a part of some group in your eyes, it affects the way you think about them or about things related to them. This wouldn't be a problem if the categorizing was justified, but 99% of times it is not. People need to stop categorizing everything, and some people need to stop the seeking of groups so that they can get acceptance. I'm looking at teenagers mostly with the last part, though.

[DocDoomII]

mykeme wrote...

 If there's ever a cooking RPG released with multiple gender choices I'll pick female because it's canon.



Problem, feminist?

DA2 canon protagonist should be female.
I mean, the feeling you have doing quests it's exactly the same as following the red arrow of this pic:

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

What's with fantasy's fascination with antagonizing spiders? Real spiders are so peaceful. Hell they don't even hunt their prey, just let trespassers be tangled up. Not as scary as an oldman with a shotgun yelling "GIDOFF MA LAWN" and seriously has anyone ever been bitten by a spider?

[Warheadz]

Why is the woman allowed to shop? What kind of man allows her to run free?

[Davasar]

Captain_Obvious wrote...

Carfax wrote...

All in all, it comes down to having weak gender identity.  A man that has strong gender identity will not play as a woman if given the choice, and will probably feel strange doing so......unless he has absolutely no connection towards the character at all.. 

I think you have this exactly backwards.  In my experience, men with strong gender identities are not threatened by female characters in games.  They are confident enough in their own sexuality so that the assumption of the role of a virtual female character, especially in games where that is your only option, does not cause them to question their own sexual identities. 

I am not threatened by them either, neither are most men who play games I would wager whether they have strong gender identities or not.

It is about what gets you the most deeply immersed and what your wish fulfillment is and escapism desires.

I just do not prefer to play females.  I am male, I play males.

[The Angry One]

Nothing wrong with shopping now. Though if the stereotype is true I have to wonder why 90% of JRPG mains and a lot of CRPG mains are male.
Think about it - what's the first thing you do in a lot of RPGs when you reach a new town or progress along the plot? Shopping spree! Check those new swords, nuclear death cannons and shoes!

[Warheadz]

The Angry One wrote...

Nothing wrong with shopping now. Though if the stereotype is true I have to wonder why 90% of JRPG mains and a lot of CRPG mains are male.
Think about it - what's the first thing you do in a lot of RPGs when you reach a new town or progress along the plot? Shopping spree! Check those new swords, nuclear death cannons and shoes!

That's not shopping. It's man-building. You are reinforcing your manliness-level so you can kick some alien ass and **** two lesbian ****es.

Edit: (or to do something of the equivalent man-value)

Modifié par Warheadz, 19 avril 2011 - 07:26 .