160 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

Yes

[KnightofPhoenix]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Because Garrus doesn't try to stop you if you destroy the base. If TIM implanted him, I think he would have tried to make Garrus stop you, just like he try to do with Miranda.

Perhaps, but you could also justify it that while Garrus is a surprise card, control-chip Garrus can't beat 2-1 odds like that, so employing him (only to see him shot down), while great tragedy, would be a wasted move.

He didn't mind doing the same with Miranda, even if there is not  even a slight chance that someone like say Samarra, Thane and especially Jack would help her. Considering Miranda's background, I'd think she would be as valuable, if not more so, than cyborg Garrus.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 16 avril 2011 - 02:32 .

[eternalnightmare13]

It's a good idea, being hunted down by your former friend/squad mate who's being controlled by Cerebus.

[Dean_the_Young]

At the same time, though, Miranda is quote/unquote 'Perfect', while Garrus is neither perfect and would have the control chip influence on him... which, as we hear from Mordin's LM, is a big dipper in ability. Miranda is powerful, uncoerced, and is openly known as a Cerberus loyalist anyway: she might not have a great chance, but a big enough one and she won't be as trusted 'afterwards' even if she kept her head down. Guarrus's chances are less, while the evaluations about keeping him secret are easier to justify (for whatever reasons), even if they don't pan out.


Like I said from the start, I know this isn't how it will turn out, and the story certainly isn't based around the theme. Whether it could have been, however, is far more interesting.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
Like I said from the start, I know this isn't how it will turn out, and the story certainly isn't based around the theme. Whether it could have been, however, is far more interesting.

I'd personally be far more interested if one of our companions becomes a Reaper agent a la Saren.
It would be heart wrenching to have to kill one of your comrade in arms. And if they want to make it really effective (at causing us emotional pain), it has to be someone we know from the beginning. Garrus and Tali would be the best options.

But yea, it would have been interesting also if Cerberus did implant Garrus.

[eternalnightmare13]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

candidate88766 wrote...

Eh, as much as I like the idea I can't see that Miranda would've had the time to do anything like that even if the Normandy happened to have a stash of control chips and the tools to implant them: its not like she can tell Chakwas to take a break for several hours when it is Chakwas' job as medic to tend to Garrus.

Why on earth not?

'You've been up for 22 hours, and the crisis point has passed Doctor. Go take a rest: I'm more than suited for the routine cybernetics.'

Then theres the chance that Shepard was watching part of the operation (Shepard is meant to be a seasoned soldier so I can't see him/her being all squemish here).

Why would a seasoned soldier know one medical cybernetic from another? Especially if said cybernetic is meant to look and function like another?

Also, Miranda is merely in charge of the Lazurus Cell - they did all the work in bringing Shepard back. Miranda may well be very intelligent and have medical training but I don't think she's meant to be an expert on it.

She was established as an expert in it from the opening cutscenes and throughout the game whenever Lazarus is referred to. She was just as much the expert in putting Shepard back together, just as he was.

Let's not forget that Miranda outranks Chakwas.  Chakwas is a seasoned military vet and even though Cerebus isn't military she still understands and follows protocol.  Not once did Chakwas ever do or say anything that showed insubordination in either game.  If Miranada told her to take her leave then Chakwas would do it, because Miranda outranks her.  She wonder 'WTF?' but wouldn't protest over it.

[Apollo Starflare]

While I actually like this idea (so long as there was a way to resolve things without Garrus' death) another point against it would be that for all those who made Miranda loyal (and seemingly turned her somewhat against TIM) it would make sense for her to own up to any meddling with Garrus after the mission at the very least.

[Labrev]

If they didn't do it to Shepard himself why would they bother with Garrus?

Nothing in his behavior suggested it either.

[Magragoc]

eternalnightmare13 wrote...

Let's not forget that Miranda outranks Chakwas.  Chakwas is a seasoned military vet and even though Cerebus isn't military she still understands and follows protocol.  Not once did Chakwas ever do or say anything that showed insubordination in either game.  If Miranada told her to take her leave then Chakwas would do it, because Miranda outranks her.  She wonder 'WTF?' but wouldn't protest over it.

A man was on the table with his head blown open, in critical condition, and you're suggesting that a military surgeon would abandon his patient just because a higher-up said "leave the room"?  Preposterous.  Even more preposterous when you consider Dr. Chakwas' personality. 

You really think that she'd kowtow to Miranda, of all people?   That Dr. Chakwas, who felt so adrift without the "family" she'd built around her crew, would allow this Cerberus woman to put her patient at risk "just because"?  Surgeons are little tyrants in their operating theaters and for good reason; you can't have a bunch of chiefs fighting to control the indians.  

I can see Miranda trying to muscle in, but there's no way that Dr. Chakwas would have allowed it.  No matter the repercussions later, she would have told Miranda off. 

[Dean_the_Young]

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

If they didn't do it to Shepard himself why would they bother with Garrus?

Garrus isn't as important as Shepard.

Nothing in his behavior suggested it either.

How would you know the difference?

[Dean_the_Young]

Magragoc wrote...

A man was on the table with his head blown open, in critical condition, and you're suggesting that a military surgeon would abandon his patient just because a higher-up said "leave the room"?  Preposterous.  Even more preposterous when you consider Dr. Chakwas' personality. 

After the surgery is largely completed, with minor things that don't require her? Or subterfuge without her knowledge? 

You really think that she'd kowtow to Miranda, of all people?   That Dr. Chakwas, who felt so adrift without the "family" she'd built around her crew, would allow this Cerberus woman to put her patient at risk "just because"?  Surgeons are little tyrants in their operating theaters and for good reason; you can't have a bunch of chiefs fighting to control the indians. 

She kowtows to Cerberus already. A bit late to take a moral high road.

I can see Miranda trying to muscle in, but there's no way that Dr. Chakwas would have allowed it.  No matter the repercussions later, she would have told Miranda off. 

Why would Miranda have to muscle in?

[Dean_the_Young]

Apollo Starflare wrote...

While I actually like this idea (so long as there was a way to resolve things without Garrus' death) another point against it would be that for all those who made Miranda loyal (and seemingly turned her somewhat against TIM) it would make sense for her to own up to any meddling with Garrus after the mission at the very least.

It would also make sense not to tell: sense, after all, is in the eye of the beholder. Raising something that can not be changed and will only incur negative feeling... yes, there are many, many people who would understand why they might want to bury some things.

Tali, for example.

[crimzontearz]

highly doubtful....even if Miranda did such a thing by the end of the game she tells TIM to screw off...so why leave the controlling implants in garrus?

Also the person who monitors the health of the team is MORDIN....you really think while checking up on Garrus he would miss the controlling devices? I doubt it

[Dean_the_Young]

Why presume it's an option? Why should there be a way to remove a controlling implant?

If the control chip is meant to look (and provide the functionality) of a 'conventional' implant, there wouldn't necessarily be signs. It's less 'miss the device' and more 'hm, Cerberus has alternative cybernetics.'

Now, whether Mordin or anyone else eventually discover them... well, that's another question. But you could hardly know they wouldn't find anything when Garrus gets right back off the table.

[lovgreno]

Actualy TIMmy and Miranda wants Shepard to trust Cerberus so a backstab like that when Shepard has barely started to work for them is a unnecesary risk. And besides TIMmy wisely thinks that manipulations like brain chips have a possibility to change people too much and thus make them less efficent. There are better ways to make people work for you, like helping them to prevent total galactic genocide.

[KainrycKarr]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Jacob: "The doc's corrected with surgical procedures and some cybernetics."

Yes, maybe she didn't do it all personally, but the evidence we actually have says she did. So, to me, the most plausible way he could have been chipped was if someone "doped" the implants before handing them off to the doc.

Well, I guess that disproves it. No way would anyone ever manipulate medical technology and implants!

That would just be evil.

Again, they likely wouldn't have, unless they knew who Archangel was, and anticipated those injuries.

Sorry, I know how much these forums love a good conspiracy theory, but this one is a stretch.

[KainrycKarr]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Magragoc wrote...

A man was on the table with his head blown open, in critical condition, and you're suggesting that a military surgeon would abandon his patient just because a higher-up said "leave the room"?  Preposterous.  Even more preposterous when you consider Dr. Chakwas' personality. 

After the surgery is largely completed, with minor things that don't require her? Or subterfuge without her knowledge? 

You really think that she'd kowtow to Miranda, of all people?   That Dr. Chakwas, who felt so adrift without the "family" she'd built around her crew, would allow this Cerberus woman to put her patient at risk "just because"?  Surgeons are little tyrants in their operating theaters and for good reason; you can't have a bunch of chiefs fighting to control the indians. 

She kowtows to Cerberus already. A bit late to take a moral high road.

I can see Miranda trying to muscle in, but there's no way that Dr. Chakwas would have allowed it.  No matter the repercussions later, she would have told Miranda off. 

Why would Miranda have to muscle in?

Because Chakwas might not trust her? There seems to be a lot of "well I work for them, but I'm not entirely sold on everything they do..."

[Dean_the_Young]

KainrycKarr wrote...

Again, they likely wouldn't have, unless they knew who Archangel was, and anticipated those injuries.

Sorry, I know how much these forums love a good conspiracy theory, but this one is a stretch.

This conspiracy is pretty tame to the most common ones. All it really requires is that a Turian-applicable control-chip be on the Normandy.

[Dean_the_Young]

KainrycKarr wrote...

Because Chakwas might not trust her? There seems to be a lot of "well I work for them, but I'm not entirely sold on everything they do..."

Which is reason to keep Miranda out because...?

Chakwas might not like Cerberus, but she's already committed herself to being involved with them. Not being sold on everything they do doesn't entail claiming exclusive involvement in all medical procedures.

[KainrycKarr]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

Again, they likely wouldn't have, unless they knew who Archangel was, and anticipated those injuries.

Sorry, I know how much these forums love a good conspiracy theory, but this one is a stretch.

This conspiracy is pretty tame to the most common ones. All it really requires is that a Turian-applicable control-chip be on the Normandy.

so, honestly, considering they didn't know who Archangel was, and didn't anticipate his injuries....how likely is that? IMO, not very. A slim possibility, I'll admit, but slim nonetheless.

[KainrycKarr]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

Because Chakwas might not trust her? There seems to be a lot of "well I work for them, but I'm not entirely sold on everything they do..."

Which is reason to keep Miranda out because...?

Chakwas might not like Cerberus, but she's already committed herself to being involved with them. Not being sold on everything they do doesn't entail claiming exclusive involvement in all medical procedures.

Because she's a doctor? I've known a lot of people in the surgical and medical field, and generally those types are extremely nitpicky about who's involved in their procedures.

[Naltair]

Chakwas is the most likely person to do the surgery and she states quite clearly, "I don't work for them, I work for you [Shepard]... (snip)," so I am not sure why she would do the control chip. Miranda for all her vaunted intellect is not a medical technician, she is a leader so is probably familiar with all the processes in the Lazarus project but she wasn't probably doing the work herself.

The added question is who would actually benefit from this? Are they going to turn Garrus into a sleeper? If so the time to activate has probably passed. By the end of the game I have broken ties with Cerberus and have a loyal crew to do whatever I want. TIM can activate him next game but I don't really see the point, it just seems implausible.

[Naltair]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

Because Chakwas might not trust her? There seems to be a lot of "well I work for them, but I'm not entirely sold on everything they do..."

Which is reason to keep Miranda out because...?

Chakwas might not like Cerberus, but she's already committed herself to being involved with them. Not being sold on everything they do doesn't entail claiming exclusive involvement in all medical procedures.

She is committed to Shepard, most of the key people on the ship are committed to him/her and not Cerberus.

[Dean_the_Young]

Naltair wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

Because Chakwas might not trust her? There seems to be a lot of "well I work for them, but I'm not entirely sold on everything they do..."

Which is reason to keep Miranda out because...?

Chakwas might not like Cerberus, but she's already committed herself to being involved with them. Not being sold on everything they do doesn't entail claiming exclusive involvement in all medical procedures.

She is committed to Shepard, most of the key people on the ship are committed to him/her and not Cerberus.

And so she's going to refuse medical help from the person who brought Shepard back to life and will be watching Shepard's back?