160 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

KainrycKarr wrote...

Because she's a doctor? I've known a lot of people in the surgical and medical field, and generally those types are extremely nitpicky about who's involved in their procedures.

That's like saying Shepard's a sergeant-personality because he's a soldier, on account that you can find of a lot of Sergeants in the army.

[Naltair]

Miranda was a team leader there is very little evidence her medical knowledge is actually that extensive. If so why would they have Mordin and Chakwas take the lead on medicine on the ship. She is a leader, she may have passing knowledge but her capabilities lies in getting people motivated towards a goal.

[crimzontearz]

again that does not explain why Miranda would not tell shepard about the implants AFTER she turnd her back to cerberus

this is not going to happen and has a place only in fanfictions

[Dean_the_Young]

Why? Because Miranda's busy being XO, not because she doesn't know.

Miranda has more evidence for having medical knowledge than Chakwas, given that we're only told that Chakwas does a surgery and watches after Joker while Miranda has had a direct hand in bending the laws of nature and life or death.

[JosephShrike]

I think if Chakwas got kicked out of medical while working on Garrus, who was part of the old crew which she has obvious and unhidden loyalties to, she would absolutely tell Shepard.

Also, why would they need to control Garrus when they could just control Shepard? He has far more Cerberus cybernetics in him then Gary would have. It seems incredibly odd to go through the kind of immediate and haphazard operation to shove crap into Garrus to force an outcome in TIM's favor when the same could have just been done with Shep, and done far easier.

[Dean_the_Young]

crimzontearz wrote...

again that does not explain why Miranda would not tell shepard about the implants AFTER she turnd her back to cerberus

It does, in many respects. For one, we, the players, haven't had an extensive 'after Mass Effect 2' time for character development, so the 'after' would not necessarily have occured yet. For two, there are plenty of reasons Miranda might delay.

this is not going to happen

Please read first post.

[Naltair]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Why? Because Miranda's busy being XO, not because she doesn't know.

Miranda has more evidence for having medical knowledge than Chakwas, given that we're only told that Chakwas does a surgery and watches after Joker while Miranda has had a direct hand in bending the laws of nature and life or death.

Please explain how Miranda has more evidence than Dr. Chakwas who has been a Military doctor for decades?

Miranda lead a team that bent the laws of nature, in the same way that the Doctors that run BioWare were in charge of the Mass Effect Franchise, or more correctly Casey Hudson, that does not mean he is an animator, coder, writer, and sound technician.  She is a leader a leader only needs a passing knowledge to lead and organize her people.

[Dean_the_Young]

JosephShrike wrote...

I think if Chakwas got kicked out of medical while working on Garrus, who was part of the old crew which she has obvious and unhidden loyalties to, she would absolutely tell Shepard.

And if it weren't so blatant?

Also, why would they need to control Garrus when they could just control Shepard? He has far more Cerberus cybernetics in him then Gary would have. It seems incredibly odd to go through the kind of immediate and haphazard operation to shove crap into Garrus to force an outcome in TIM's favor when the same could have just been done with Shep, and done far easier.

Shepard is a symbol who was needed to be just as he/she was. Garrus, is not. Putting a chip in Shepard ****s with who Shepard is, which is critical to the Illusive Man's goals. Garrus's already-revolving Paragon/Renegade moodset being a bit altered, is not so much.

Because of ideology, TIM sees Shepard being 'pure' as vital. The same need not apply to Garrus.

[Naltair]

Miranda is a brilliant strategist and leader but there is no evidence to suggest she was even close to the level of her team at Lazarus for medical/science knowledge or even Mordin or Chakwas. Why would you even need Mordin if she had such awesome law breaking biomedical knowledge.

[Naltair]

As an addendum you can technically have two medical doctors, Chakwas and Mordin, that we know are doctors and have extensive experience in their fields work on Garrus and both with reasons not to put a control chip in his head.

[Dean_the_Young]

Naltair wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Why? Because Miranda's busy being XO, not because she doesn't know.

Miranda has more evidence for having medical knowledge than Chakwas, given that we're only told that Chakwas does a surgery and watches after Joker while Miranda has had a direct hand in bending the laws of nature and life or death.

Please explain how Miranda has more evidence than Dr. Chakwas who has been a Military doctor for decades?

Simple: we don't see Dr. Chakwas career. We do see the effects of Miranda at work. That's how evidence works.

I'm not saying Miranda has more experience, but rather we have more evidence of Miranda's capabilities than Chakwas.

 She is a leader a leader only needs a passing knowledge to lead and organize her people.

That's... complete bull****, by engineering, organizational, and especially military standards. A leader might not be an expert in things, but they do need to be intimately familiar with the roles and jobs of their subordinates.

Which is irrelevant, because Miranda is established, right from the start, as the right-lobe of the Lazarus project's science to put Shepard back together.

[crimzontearz]

why? because otherwise the stupid conspiracy theory does not work...lol

[Dean_the_Young]

Naltair wrote...

As an addendum you can technically have two medical doctors, Chakwas and Mordin, that we know are doctors and have extensive experience in their fields work on Garrus and both with reasons not to put a control chip in his head.

But they wouldn't need to be the ones to knowingly put a control chip in his head, so their aversion to doing so is rather irrelevant.

[Dean_the_Young]

crimzontearz wrote...

why? because otherwise the stupid conspiracy theory does not work...lol

A conspiracy theory asserts itself to be the truth. This thread has never asserted such.

[lovgreno]

In fact everyone on board could have been implanted with brain chips. But it's obviously just not necesary to take that risk.

[crimzontearz]

no it asserted itseld to be remotely plausible....which, still, it is not. At best it is a huge stretch

[Naltair]

No we don't we have evidence of Miranda's expertise just Wilson's work. You are making an assumption. Miranda was the leader of Lazarus she may have even watched the work but Wilson and his fellow scientists did the work, evidence for this is found on the Lazarus base during the escape.

He even states something to the effect of, "We did it we have brought Shepard back, greatest achievement in medical science, now I hope this impresses Miranda," why would would it impress her if she was not intimately involved. Reason because obviously she wasn't.

As an aside a Leader needs to be familiar with what his subordinates do but he does not need to know how they do it, just what they can do and how to motivate them to do their jobs and reach or exceed whatever standards are set in place.

Modifié par Naltair, 16 avril 2011 - 05:33 .

[KainrycKarr]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

Because she's a doctor? I've known a lot of people in the surgical and medical field, and generally those types are extremely nitpicky about who's involved in their procedures.

That's like saying Shepard's a sergeant-personality because he's a soldier, on account that you can find of a lot of Sergeants in the army.

What? You gotta stop with those analogies. They don't make sense. 

I'm assuming she is like most in that field, that doesn't mean she is. Adding to that, she trusts Shepard and Garrus more than Cerberus, and thus is probably going to be very thorough about what goes in and out of them when it comes to surgeries.

We're both making assumptions.

Modifié par KainrycKarr, 16 avril 2011 - 05:34 .

[Naltair]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
Simple: we don't see Dr. Chakwas career. We do see the effects of Miranda at work. That's how evidence works.

I'm not saying Miranda has more experience, but rather we have more evidence of Miranda's capabilities than Chakwas.

The evidence that Chakwas is a qualified medical doctor is much more substantial then one scene where Miranda tells Wilson to use the sedatives.

[Dean_the_Young]

KainrycKarr wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

Because she's a doctor? I've known a lot of people in the surgical and medical field, and generally those types are extremely nitpicky about who's involved in their procedures.

That's like saying Shepard's a sergeant-personality because he's a soldier, on account that you can find of a lot of Sergeants in the army.

What? You gotta stop with those analogies. They don't make sense.

Fallacy of composition. That was your fallacy.

Simpler?

[KainrycKarr]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Why? Because Miranda's busy being XO, not because she doesn't know.

Miranda has more evidence for having medical knowledge than Chakwas, given that we're only told that Chakwas does a surgery and watches after Joker while Miranda has had a direct hand in bending the laws of nature and life or death.

....What?

Chakwas was the Chief Medical Officer for a high-level military vessel. That's some pretty heft evidence of having medical knowledge.

Miranda was the project lead for Lazarus. That means she obviously has some medical knowledge, but in no way means she has more than someone who was professional trained and specialized in the field.

[Dean_the_Young]

Naltair wrote...

The evidence that Chakwas is a qualified medical doctor is much more substantial then one scene where Miranda tells Wilson to use the sedatives.

If that were the only scene... well, Chakwas would still need an equivalent. But that's not the only scene involving Miranda being portrayed as intimately involved in Lazarus.

[Dean_the_Young]

KainrycKarr wrote...

....What?

Chakwas was the Chief Medical Officer for a high-level military vessel. That's some pretty heft evidence of having medical knowledge.

That's a title, not evidence. Equivalent to an Appeal to Authority fallcy in terms of proof.

It's a safe assumption, but it isn't evidence.

Miranda was the project lead for Lazarus. That means she obviously has some medical knowledge, but in no way means she has more than someone who was professional trained and specialized in the field.

I never said it did mean she had more. Only that her role and involvement showed more capability than anything Chakwas has been credited with.

[Naltair]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Naltair wrote...

The evidence that Chakwas is a qualified medical doctor is much more substantial then one scene where Miranda tells Wilson to use the sedatives.

If that were the only scene... well, Chakwas would still need an equivalent. But that's not the only scene involving Miranda being portrayed as intimately involved in Lazarus.

Please provide evidence for this other scene?

[Dean_the_Young]

Naltair wrote...

As an aside a Leader needs to be familiar with what his subordinates do but he does not need to know how they do it, just what they can do and how to motivate them to do their jobs and reach or exceed whatever standards are set in place.

If this is how they do things outside of the service industry, administrative sector, or military, I can not comment.

Certainly it was never true in those three, in my experience.