160 réponses à ce sujet

[xzxzxz701]

Moreover, why would Chakwas need to be the one implanting it at all? We can already justify Miranda helping Chakwas.

No, we actually can't.

[Elite Midget]

It's Garrus! He's the supposed favorite thus no one believes he will ever betray even with a control chip because that would 'ruin' ME3 for many.

[atheelogos]

xzxzxz701 wrote...

Moreover, why would Chakwas need to be the one implanting it at all? We can already justify Miranda helping Chakwas.

No, we actually can't.

this

[atheelogos]

Elite Midget wrote...

It's Garrus! He's the supposed favorite thus no one believes he will ever betray even with a control chip because that would 'ruin' ME3 for many.

No its not that. I just don't think Chakwas would be that inept as to not know what she was doing.

[VioletSparks]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

And maybe even slept with him?

You remember how in recruiting Garrus, he got his face blown to pieces?
Remember how, as close to death as he was, you handed him to Cerberus
and didn't ask too many questions? Remember how you were so relieved to
see him that you never asked what 'some cybernetics and other things'
might have implied?

Did you forget Miranda's inclination towards a control chip, but TIM shot her down because it was Shepard?

If you don't like TIM, you may wish you hadn't.


/Mind screw

In all seriousness, yes. I know this isn't going to be revealed as having happened. But I don't think I've ever heard someone raise the possibility, which is even scarier. How much is it that you don't think it could have happened... and how much is that you never wanted to consider the possibility?

Imagine, just imagine, if Cerberus had put a control chip in Garrus... and all that might imply.  How could that have turned out?


(Hint: possibly like this person's interpretation. Warning: not for the faint of heart, or those who like happy endings,)

Edit: Not sure if the link-to is working. Trying to fix it.

Not sure anything will come of this but it's a fascinating idea.. if bioware had all the time in the world it would be the sort of awesome complexity which would pay dividends, but alas, they don't and it will doubtlessly be overlooked (I had completely skipped over this every playthrough thusfar). that fanfic though is actually quite impressive (wasn't what I was expecting at all - and I didn't know turians could actually sleep with humans? i was taken aback to say the least, but it was really maturely handled)

[Dean_the_Young]

mrsph wrote...

The fact this came from Mass Kink is amusing the hell out of me.

Actually, I posted it there before posting it here, but hey.

[MrFob]

I'd rather be worried about this:

[Rekkampum]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

mrsph wrote...

The fact this came from Mass Kink is amusing the hell out of me.

Actually, I posted it there before posting it here, but hey.

Do you mean you posted the idea there or you wrote the excerpt?

[Dean_the_Young]

Rekkampum wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

mrsph wrote...

The fact this came from Mass Kink is amusing the hell out of me.

Actually, I posted it there before posting it here, but hey.

Do you mean you posted the idea there or you wrote the excerpt?

The idea. As much as I'd like to claim that brilliant excerpt as my own... I can't.

[MajorStranger]

JeffZero wrote...

candidate88766 wrote...

JeffZero wrote...

candidate88766 wrote...

You hand him to Dr Chakwas.

He is repaired and operated on aboard the Normandy, so it stands to reason that the Dr is the one operating on him (along with Mordin if recruited) and as the Dr has worked with Garrus and Shepard before there is zero chance Cerberus has done anything to him.

Oh. Well that might settle that.

I now feel like a bit of a party pooper 

Eh, better to know the truth in life than blow hours on the what-ifs of things that can't possibly be... well, most of the time, anyway. :happy:

Tell that to Zulu_DFA

[emmanuelsieyes]

Guys, this is Cerberus we're talking about.

If they implanted a control chip inside his brain, it would inevitably malfunction and go thermonuclear or something.

[Gar_Logan]

This is actually very easy.
The Illusive Man saw Shepard's potential before he died, when all his crewmates were still accounted for. Shepard dies, a few months later Garrus "disappears." This is what The Illusive Man tells you. This, the same guy who lies to you and withholds truth about the VS on Horizon and sending you into a Collector trap. Also the same man who sends you information about the Shadow Broker, an entity that, previously, could never be found by anyone ever. Keeping tabs on Garrus can't be too hard if they can track down the Shadow Broker.

So they knew Shepard would be recruiting Garrus, someone that Shepard would trust no matter what. Someone who could also be recruited before Mordin, thus there's a chance that his surgery would have gone on without him. And even if he was there, he says himself that Cerberus has never worked with aliens, they probably have tech he's never seen before. Control chips or cybernetics, things that were used to repair Shepard, probably weren't bought straight out of the box like the expensive bug devices planted throughout his lab. Thus, without a full in-depth study on them, he might not even find anything.

Chakwas probably didn't know that the cybernetics she was using could be used as a control chip. If she did know, there's nothing in her character that would suggest she would do it or not tell Shepard right away. So it stands that she would be unaware. It was probably her that did it, with Miranda overseeing it though.
Plus, monitoring devices are necessary in order to maintain that the cybernetics are being accepted by the body, any kind of secret control chip may be masked by these monitors. Maybe even undetectable if it were lying dormant, waiting to be activated.

As previously stated, Shepard was meant to be brought back exactly as he was, no control chips or anything (that we know of,) so someone who wasn't as important but close to Shepard would be invaluable to have control over.
And as for the probability that they were expecting Garrus to be mortally wounded and in need of cybernetic implants, people like TiM plan for every single contingency. If it happened, they have their opening. If they didn't, they have a backup plan for that. (Or the other way around, Garrus being injured may have opened up a backup plan for the future with a plan in place if he was never hurt at all being their primary.)

And probability? This is a game where you recruit 12 individuals to trek into an unmapped relay using reaper technology that scientists only theorize would work. This is just as probable as the entire plot of the game, which means it can fit right in.

Long story short: TiM lies about Garrus disappearing, Garrus' implants were one of many contingencies that just happened to occur, making anopening for the chip being implanted in a way leaving Chakwas and Mordin unaware of it.

The only flaw I can see, at this point without much more thought, is that Miranda WOULD tell you of such an implant being in Garrus, unless of course she dies before she can tell you. And if she doesn't, she'd tell you. No question.

Either that, or, in an attempt to avoid bad blood, disables it secretly without anyone knowing. Of course, a spy onboard the Normandy that no one is aware of could always switch it back on, it would still only be logical Shepard be informed regardless.

Oh, and Garrus is special in the way that Shepard is close to him/her. That's not something TiM would blow in the Collector Base. Not only would Garrus lose the fight, but TiM loses the ability to utilize Garrus later.
Blah blah blah it's all really been discussed but that's it.

EDIT: Fix bad formatting.

Modifié par Gar_Logan, 17 avril 2011 - 06:54 .

[didymos1120]

emmanuelsieyes wrote...

Guys, this is Cerberus we're talking about.

If they implanted a control chip inside his brain, it would inevitably malfunction and go thermonuclear or something.

Guess Shep is screwed then.  Should probably keep an eye on the SR-2, since it too may detonate at any moment.

[AlexXIV]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

And maybe even slept with him?

You remember how in recruiting Garrus, he got his face blown to pieces?
Remember how, as close to death as he was, you handed him to Cerberus
and didn't ask too many questions? Remember how you were so relieved to
see him that you never asked what 'some cybernetics and other things'
might have implied?

Did you forget Miranda's inclination towards a control chip, but TIM shot her down because it was Shepard?

If you don't like TIM, you may wish you hadn't.


/Mind screw

In all seriousness, yes. I know this isn't going to be revealed as having happened. But I don't think I've ever heard someone raise the possibility, which is even scarier. How much is it that you don't think it could have happened... and how much is that you never wanted to consider the possibility?

Imagine, just imagine, if Cerberus had put a control chip in Garrus... and all that might imply.  How could that have turned out?


(Hint: possibly like this person's interpretation. Warning: not for the faint of heart, or those who like happy endings,)

Edit: Not sure if the link-to is working. Trying to fix it.

Wouldn't it have been easier to put a control chip into Shepard? They rebuilt Shep for 2 years and never planted a chip in him/her. At least as far as we know. Not to mention that Garrus' relationship to Shep is uncertain. I mean how'd they figure they were friends to begin with if you (being Shep) could as well dislike Garrus and never listen to anything he says.

[didymos1120]

AlexXIV wrote...

 I mean how'd they figure they were friends to begin with if you (being Shep) could as well dislike Garrus and never listen to anything he says.

For that matter, what if your particular Shepard never bothered recruiting Garrus in the first place.  Their whole relationship then consisted of a brief chat in the Council chamber before the first meeting about Saren.

[GuardianAngel470]

Though I don't deny it is technically plausible, I do want to say that replacing a collar bone with cybernetics does not equal brain surgery. In order for a control chip to be implanted, Chakwas or someone else would have to cut open Garrus' skull which, based on his actual injuries, probably wouldn't happen.

At most she might drill in to relieve pressure from a swelling brain that had suffered a concussion or something but most of Garrus' injuries were to his body, not his head. He was shot multiple times in the body with a heavy machine gun while the only injury he suffered to his head was the scarring.

Therefore, I think Shepard would notice if one of the unnamed medical specialists on the ship took a saw to Garrus' head when he knew that it had suffered no real damage. He may not be able to distinguish between individual implants but seeing anyone implant anything into his friend's brain would probably raise a few flags.

On top of that, his discussion with Miranda about control chips would likely still be fresh in his mind and invariably had occured before rescuing Garrus.

I'm not saying I'm right, just that there are other angles to this.

[candidate88766]

Having read some more of this thread, it seems a tad possible I guess. I still don't think it happened in ME2, but as the OP is asking a 'what if' scenario I think if something like this happened in ME3 (very likely, what with indoctrination and all that) it would be a fantastic twist.

It could change with each playthrough, or maybe not happen at all sometimes - you'd be constantly trying to work who, if anyone, on your team is going to betray you. One of the final bosses could be a former squadmate. 

MajorStranger wrote...

JeffZero wrote...

Eh, better to know the truth in life than blow hours on the what-ifs of things that can't possibly be... well, most of the time, anyway. :happy:

Tell that to Zulu_DFA

LOL

[didymos1120]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

On top of that, his discussion with Miranda about control chips would likely still be fresh in his mind and invariably had occured before rescuing Garrus.

Not invariably at all.  You have to start a conversation with her after Lazarus Station and the first chat with TIM but before heading to Freedom's Progress and then pick the right option before she'll bring it up, and it won't come up in any other conversation. 

Modifié par didymos1120, 17 avril 2011 - 10:03 .

[GuardianAngel470]

didymos1120 wrote...

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

On top of that, his discussion with Miranda about control chips would likely still be fresh in his mind and invariably had occured before rescuing Garrus.

Not invariably at all.  You have to start a conversation with her after Lazarus Station and the first chat with TIM but before heading to Freedom's Progress and then pick the right option before she'll bring it up, and it won't come up in any other conversation. 

That's true, I phrased that poorly. My point was that if Shepard heard the coversation then it is impossible for it to have occured AFTER rescuing Garrus because that conversation takes place before Shepard goes to Freedom's Progress.

[Dean_the_Young]

AlexXIV wrote...

Wouldn't it have been easier to put a control chip into Shepard? They rebuilt Shep for 2 years and never planted a chip in him/her. At least as far as we know.

And do you remember why they didn't plant a chip in Shepard? A particular, specific reason that need not apply to anyone else?

Not to mention that Garrus' relationship to Shep is uncertain. I mean how'd they figure they were friends to begin with if you (being Shep) could as well dislike Garrus and never listen to anything he says.

You can always manipulate, whether you are friend or foe. Friends make people more inclined to share a view: foes make someone more inclined to reject a view. Either way works.

It's not like they would even need to plan for it being Garrus.

[jamesp81]

Sajuro wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

What, and somehow you can't disguise a control chip to look like something else?

I think the better question is, how do you know what a control chip looks like as compared to a regular brain activity monitering chip?

Chakwas has been doing the surgeon thing for decades.  I think she knows what to look for, disguised or not.

[jamesp81]

GuardianAngel470 wrote...

Though I don't deny it is technically plausible, I do want to say that replacing a collar bone with cybernetics does not equal brain surgery. In order for a control chip to be implanted, Chakwas or someone else would have to cut open Garrus' skull which, based on his actual injuries, probably wouldn't happen.

At most she might drill in to relieve pressure from a swelling brain that had suffered a concussion or something but most of Garrus' injuries were to his body, not his head. He was shot multiple times in the body with a heavy machine gun while the only injury he suffered to his head was the scarring.

Therefore, I think Shepard would notice if one of the unnamed medical specialists on the ship took a saw to Garrus' head when he knew that it had suffered no real damage. He may not be able to distinguish between individual implants but seeing anyone implant anything into his friend's brain would probably raise a few flags.

On top of that, his discussion with Miranda about control chips would likely still be fresh in his mind and invariably had occured before rescuing Garrus.

I'm not saying I'm right, just that there are other angles to this.

I'm pretty sure even my paragon Shepard would gladly torture the truth out of Miranda if he suspected anything.

[Dean_the_Young]

jamesp81 wrote...

Chakwas has been doing the surgeon thing for decades.  I think she knows what to look for, disguised or not.

Which is like saying that bodyguards should be able to stop all Assassinations.

[Anacronian Stryx]

I believe that Chakwas is a reaper agent, After all the game never tells us she isn't so we can justify that reasoning.

And since we now know Chakwas is a reaper agent would it be so far fetched to believe that she Implanted Garrus (Garru's) with some reaper tech?

No of cause not.

The only question remains is .. Did the blast from the collector base give Garrus (Garru's) a toothache?.