112 réponses à ce sujet

[Sphynx118]

Mesina2 wrote...

Well they can always revoke his/hers Spectre status.

They certainly can but not BEFORE the damn trial that determines whether he was right or not. 

If the want to demote him it should happen after him being found guilty.
They didnt demote Saren just cause Shepard said he was guilty, they demoted him after having a trial and shepard bringing in proof

[Sphynx118]

Mesina2 wrote...

Eradyn wrote...

Again: It doesn't matter. Shepard, as a Spectre, only answers to the council. Period. It doesn't matter if Shepard lit a bag of puppies on fire, it will have to be the council who makes any real determination.

Like with Saren when Shepard proved he attacked Eden Prime with Geth?

Exactly like that. Saren was tried by THE COUNCIL and found guilty. Not by the turian government on Palaven

[lolwut666]

Tsc...

Like that ol' saying goes, "You give 'em a hand and they want the entire arm."

You killed 300.000 innocent people and destroyed a Mass Relay together with an entire solar system. Unless the Council is on some bad weed, your Spectre status is as good as revoked.

[Sphynx118]

lolwut666 wrote...

Tsc...

Like that ol' saying goes, "You give 'em a hand and they want the entire arm."

You killed 300.000 innocent people and destroyed a Mass Relay together with an entire solar system. Unless the Council is on some bad weed, your Spectre status is as good as revoked.

Wouldnt call a planet populated by military bases, a torture prison and slavers commanding slaves make the planet habitable completely innocent but yes it was a bad thing either way.

The question is was it necesary/worth it. When you accuse the asari spectre of blowing up a building of innocent people and saying spectres wouldnt do that she just laughs and says: "Sure we do" "We do what is necesary". 

Admiral Hackett says the evidence is shoddy at best so its not like the council can kick you out before having a proper trial. They need solid evidence. Like with Saren. 

And thats why i hope they are atlest attending the trial on earth since they are the ones in charge of you. Not the alliance

Modifié par Sphynx118, 16 avril 2011 - 03:17 .

[levannar]

Sphynx118 wrote...

E

Mesina2 wrote...

Well they can always revoke his/hers Spectre status.

They certainly can but not BEFORE the damn trial that determines whether he was right or not. 

If the want to demote him it should happen after him being found guilty.
They didnt demote Saren just cause Shepard said he was guilty, they demoted him after having a trial and shepard bringing in proof

Not to argue, but Saren's reasons for attacking Eden Prime were irrelevant. Shepard only needed to prove that he had attacked Eden Prime, and his status was immediately revoked. Similarly, if the Council has proof that Shepard destroyed the Batarians, then regardless of his/her reasons, his/her Spectre status can be revoked immediately. The only difference between the two situations is that while Saren ran away, Shepard tries to justify his/herself, hence the trial. I do agree though, that it makes little sense to hold it on Earth, unless for some special political reason that we don't see at the moment. 

Edit: Of course, if they can't prove it was Shepard, that changes things.

Modifié par levannar, 16 avril 2011 - 03:19 .

[CroGamer002]

Sphynx118 wrote...
They certainly can but not BEFORE the damn trial that determines whether he was right or not. 

If the want to demote him it should happen after him being found guilty.
They
didnt demote Saren just cause Shepard said he was guilty, they demoted
him after having a trial and shepard bringing in proof

Sphynx118 wrote...
Exactly like that. Saren was tried by THE COUNCIL and found guilty. Not by the turian government on Palaven

Wait, what?!

There was no trial!
Saren wasn't there to defend himself, there was no jury and no court!

Only thing they did is that they removed his immunity and any resources while sending Shepard to apprehend him.
Only after Shepard caught him he could have been trialed.

Also war crimes trials take years to be finished.

[Eradyn]

Another difference:

Batarians= not council species.

Humanity=council species.

It's not exactly apples to apples here.

I'm not saying the council won't drop Shepard, but what I am saying is that it is the council who decides and we can't say what Saren did is directly equatable to what Shepard did.  Politics and political boundaries are a ****.

Modifié par Eradyn, 16 avril 2011 - 03:25 .

[lolwut666]

Sphynx118 wrote...

lolwut666 wrote...

Tsc...

Like that ol' saying goes, "You give 'em a hand and they want the entire arm."

You killed 300.000 innocent people and destroyed a Mass Relay together with an entire solar system. Unless the Council is on some bad weed, your Spectre status is as good as revoked.

Wouldnt call a planet populated by military bases, a torture prison and slavers commanding slaves make the planet habitable completely innocent but yes it was a bad thing either way.

The question is was it necesary/worth it. When you accuse the asari spectre of blowing up a building of innocent people and saying spectres wouldnt do that she just laughs and says: "Sure we do" "We do what is necesary". 

Admiral Hackett says the evidence is shoddy at best so its not like the council can kick you out before having a proper trial. They need solid evidence. Like with Saren. 

And thats why i hope they are atlest attending the trial on earth since they are the ones in charge of you. Not the alliance

Destroying an entire colony and blowing up a building are different things; the former far out-weights the later.

And weather it was necessary or not is irrelevant. Obviously it was necessary, but the Council does not believe on the Reaper threat, so Shepard saying "I DID IT TO STOP THE REAPER INVASION" won't cut it.

[xiiz]

Agreed. I hope the Council will at least be there for the trial for those of us who are still Spectres.

That's another chance BioWare has to convince us that our choices in the previous games actually matter.. Something that hasn't really been that visible so far.

[Thompson family]

The Spectre thing does not make the trial moot because the Alliance needs someone to take the blame for this to avoid a war with the Batarians and Shep volunteered.

Shep may be the "savior" of the universe, but he knows he doesn't want the Alliance fleet deployed in a war with the Batarians when the reapers hit.

[KenKenpachi]

They got rid of Saren for attacking a human colony of maybe a few hundred people, and all the proof they had was a voice recording. Shepard just killed a star system.

Its like being say a US James Bond. If you attacked and blew up a city in Iran, or North Korea, with a few hundred thousand dead, though not an ally state, the fact lets say I blew it up as the MOLEMEN ARE COMING! No one is going to buy that **** for the most, And now I just attacked two nations that are major military powers in a manner, over something no one for the most buys into.

I'ld be lucky if all I got was a burn notice. Right now Shepard comes off to most as being barely sane as is.

Modifié par KenKenpachi, 16 avril 2011 - 03:26 .

[Sphynx118]

Mesina2 wrote...

Sphynx118 wrote...
They certainly can but not BEFORE the damn trial that determines whether he was right or not. 

If the want to demote him it should happen after him being found guilty.
They
didnt demote Saren just cause Shepard said he was guilty, they demoted
him after having a trial and shepard bringing in proof

Sphynx118 wrote...
Exactly like that. Saren was tried by THE COUNCIL and found guilty. Not by the turian government on Palaven

Wait, what?!


There was no trial!
Saren wasn't there to defend himself, there was no jury and no court!

Only thing they did is that they removed his immunity and any resources while sending Shepard to apprehend him.
Only after Shepard caught him he could have been trialed.

Also war crimes trials take years to be finished.

Sure there was. There was one where Saren appeared and said he hadnt even been on Eden Prime. Then shepard brought proof that he had lied and blewn the place to hell. Do you need a re-trial for that? The council saw that he lied and then found him guilty. 
The court is the council and a jury is just something some countries choose to use.
Doesnt mean it has to be the same juridical system in Mass effect.

Besides there are no such evidence against shepard. Yet. As admiral hacket said: "Its shoddy at best". So theres no reason to remove his spectre immunity before the trial has taken place

[Fiery Phoenix]

I love it when people think their Spectre status basically means they're God. Really, it doesn't. It only gives you more room to screw around as you see fit, but the limits are still there.

Modifié par Fiery Phoenix, 16 avril 2011 - 03:28 .

[CroGamer002]

Also it was said in GI that both Anderson and Udina is gonna be in prologue.

So I guess human councilor will be there personally while rest of the Council with hologram.

[Eradyn]

I don't think anyone has said that, Fiery. At least I am saying that it is only the council that makes this call for a Spectre, not some foreign government with no authority over Spectres.

[dreman9999]

Being a Spectre ,as much power as they have , is mute in this trail because being a spectre only gains you power if you are within cousil space and have the full support of the counsil itself. Also, to gain spectre statue you have to be presented by your races government and acsepted by the counsil, so if that race government want to retract your statues or hold you on trail, then that would happen. The spectreonly has as much power as the counsil and race that presents them gives them. If the spectre is no doing what the two wants then, ofcourse, he or she is rogue and lose the statues.

Modifié par dreman9999, 16 avril 2011 - 03:43 .

[weazelwogger]

Earth is a member of the Citadel Council.  Any trial of a Spectre on Earth will comply with relevant Council requirements/participation.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Eradyn wrote...

I don't think anyone has said that, Fiery. At least I am saying that it is only the council that makes this call for a Spectre, not some foreign government with no authority over Spectres.

I'm sure the Council will have a say in the trial. They could at least have a representative or something along those lines.

[Irrepressible]

Hackett makes it clear that the evidence against you is shoddy at best, the Council will refuse to act without irrefutable evidence thus there's simply no way you could be tried by the Council. That said, they could request that you explain yourself in order to avoid war with the Batarians, of which it makes perfect sense for said 'trial' to take place on Earth due to political reasons. It would effectively be done in order to try to show the Batarian Hegemony that destroying the system was not an act of war, or indeed even an act of the Alliance in an attempt to quell some of the fallout from the events.

Would Shepard ever be convicted? Doubtful. Is Shepard really being tried rather than merely investigated? I'd say doubtful too, i'd say it's all nothing more than an act to save face. After all, if your character is a Spectre and it's a real trial, it would be held at the Citadel by the Council. The fact it's on Earth just seems to point to it being nothing more than a political move in my book, that's unless BioWare have jus gotten lazy with it all.

Modifié par Irrepressible, 16 avril 2011 - 03:36 .

[Sphynx118]

dreman9999 wrote...

Spectre as much power that it has, is mute in this trail because being a spectre only gains you power if you are with in cousil space and have the full support of the counsil itself. Also, to gain spectre statue you have to be presented by your races government and acsepted by the counsil, so it that race government want to retract you or hold you on trail, then that would happen. The spectreonly has as much power as the counsil and race that presents them gives them. If the spectre is no doing what the two wants then, ofcourse, he or she is rogue.

You cant retract a spectre.
If humanity has supported shepard to a spectre position and he gets accepted they cant just change their minds. Once he is a spectre the council have the last say no matter what humanity thinks

[CroGamer002]

Sphynx118 wrote...

Sure there was. There was one where Saren appeared and said he hadnt even been on Eden Prime.

He wasn't there personally.

Then shepard brought proof that he had lied and blewn the place to hell. Do you need a re-trial for that? The council saw that he lied and then found him guilty.

He wasn't there at all then!
And they didn't find him guilty.
They revoked his Spectre status so Shepard can apprehand him for him to be judged.

The court is the council and a jury is just something some countries choose to use.
Doesnt mean it has to be the same juridical system in Mass effect.

No, they do have same juridicial system.

Also Council will stay neutral in this huge diplomatic incident and I'm sure they don't want Alliance to fall.

Besides there are no such evidence against shepard. Yet. As admiral hacket said: "Its shoddy at best". So theres no reason to remove his spectre immunity before the trial has taken place

I'm sure there were security cameras in that jail that record Shepard and they might have pick up transmision if you wanted to warn Batarians.
You think they didn't transmision that to their govorment authorites in other systems?

And Shepard needs Alliance NOT in war with anyone and Batarians have more then enough reasons to attack Alliance.

[Severyx]

Also remember that ME3 takes place months after Arrival, so any number of things could happen between those two events.

[Hawkeye121]

Thompson family wrote...

The Spectre thing does not make the trial moot because the Alliance needs someone to take the blame for this to avoid a war with the Batarians and Shep volunteered.

Shep may be the "savior" of the universe, but he knows he doesn't want the Alliance fleet deployed in a war with the Batarians when the reapers hit.

   I wouldn't go so far as to say that Shepard "volunteered" to take the blame, however we need to remember regardless of our decisions Shepard is no longer affiliated with the Alliance in any official way.
   As you stated it's logical to assume that Shepard would could take the blame in order to avoid a Alliance/Batarian confict admist a Reaper invasion, but I think the smartest thing to do in that situation is justify your actions and stress the point of cooperation admist ongoing/immenent Reaper invasion.  

-Hawk

[Sphynx118]

Mesina2 wrote...

Sphynx118 wrote...

Sure there was. There was one where Saren appeared and said he hadnt even been on Eden Prime.

He wasn't there personally.

Then shepard brought proof that he had lied and blewn the place to hell. Do you need a re-trial for that? The council saw that he lied and then found him guilty.

He wasn't there at all then!
And they didn't find him guilty.
They revoked his Spectre status so Shepard can apprehand him for him to be judged.

The court is the council and a jury is just something some countries choose to use.
Doesnt mean it has to be the same juridical system in Mass effect.

No, they do have same juridicial system.

Also Council will stay neutral in this huge diplomatic incident and I'm sure they don't want Alliance to fall.

Besides there are no such evidence against shepard. Yet. As admiral hacket said: "Its shoddy at best". So theres no reason to remove his spectre immunity before the trial has taken place

I'm sure there were security cameras in that jail that record Shepard and they might have pick up transmision if you wanted to warn Batarians.
You think they didn't transmision that to their govorment authorites in other systems?

And Shepard needs Alliance NOT in war with anyone and Batarians have more then enough reasons to attack Alliance.

What part of " THE EVIDENCE IS SHODDY AT BEST" dont you understand? Its said ingame by Hackett. That means that there cant have been any solid video or audio or other stuff that you can think of. It wouldnt be shoddy then would it?
And it doesnt matter if Saren wasnt there personally the first time. He was with them through hologram and that seemed to be ok dont you think?
 
All im saying is the council should be there in someway. Either through hologram communication(oh yes its still counts as being there) or personally

Modifié par Sphynx118, 16 avril 2011 - 03:45 .