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[Deified Data]

The Cardinal Rules of Magic, first put into word by the First Enchanter Wenselus, read as follows:

You must not be under the misimpression that magic is all-powerful. There are limits, and not even the greatest mages may overcome them.
No one, for instance, has found any means of traveling-either over great distances or small ones-beyond putting one foot in front of the other. The immutable nature of the physical world prevents this. So no, you may not simply pop over to Minrathous to borrow a cup of sugar, nor may you magic the essay you "forgot" in the apprentice dormitory to your desk. You will simply have to be prepared.
Similarly, even when you send your mind into the Fade, your body remains behind. Only once has this barrier been overcome, and reputedly the spell required two-thirds of the lyrium in the Tevinter Imperium as well as the lifeblood of several hundred slaves. The results were utterly disastrous.
Finally, life is finite. A truly great healer may bring someone back from the very precipice of death, when breath and heartbeat have ceased but the spirit still clings to life. But once the spirit has fled the body, it cannot be recalled. That is no failing of your skills or power, it is simple reality.

Note the bolded passage, specifically the underlined section.

Recall that most enemy mages in DAII (though not the player character) are capable of casting a spell that does, indeed, enable them to travel great distances, often from one end of the battlefield to the other. This appears to be dissimilar from a Rogue's stealthing (as AoE spells have no effect on the stealthed mage, as they would a rogue), or a Keeper's ability to travel through the earth via underground roots, in that the mage simply casts a spell, and disappears, only to reappear elsewhere.

This doesn't appear to be a retocon, as the Cardinal Rules are still a discoverable codex entry in-game. Is there something going on here that the player doesn't know about? Is the mage perhaps entering the Fade, then exiting, appearing in a different physical location in the "real world"? If so, does it not take incredible amounts of blood/lyrium for this to be possible?

Just curious. Color me guilty of reading a bit too deep into the lore.

[The Big Nothing]

Gaider has stated that "teleportation" spells are actually illusions cast upon an enemy to confuse and disorient them.

So, movement isn't necessarily occurring, only the player character's uncertainty of the enemy mage's physical presence.

Modifié par The Big Nothing, 16 avril 2011 - 05:29 .

[The Angry One]

The Big Nothing wrote...

Gaider has stated that "teleportation" spells are actually illusions cast upon an enemy to confuse and disorient them.

.... used only in DA:O by a mage of unusual power, who's also completely insane.
Now any common mage can use that?
Also, that mage in DA:O uses it to evade the murder knife. That's it. He doesn't use it to instantly teleport across the battlefield.

[Deified Data]

The Angry One wrote...

The Big Nothing wrote...

Gaider has stated that "teleportation" spells are actually illusions cast upon an enemy to confuse and disorient them.

.... used only in DA:O by a mage of unusual power, who's also completely insane.
Now any common mage can use that?
Also, that mage in DA:O uses it to evade the murder knife. That's it. He doesn't use it to instantly teleport across the battlefield.

My memory fails me - who is this mage?

[The Big Nothing]

Deified Data wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

The Big Nothing wrote...

Gaider has stated that "teleportation" spells are actually illusions cast upon an enemy to confuse and disorient them.

.... used only in DA:O by a mage of unusual power, who's also completely insane.
Now any common mage can use that?
Also, that mage in DA:O uses it to evade the murder knife. That's it. He doesn't use it to instantly teleport across the battlefield.

My memory fails me - who is this mage?

Me, baby. Me.

[Russalka]

The "teleporting" mages sometimes reappear in the same spot.

[The Angry One]

Deified Data wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

The Big Nothing wrote...

Gaider has stated that "teleportation" spells are actually illusions cast upon an enemy to confuse and disorient them.

.... used only in DA:O by a mage of unusual power, who's also completely insane.
Now any common mage can use that?
Also, that mage in DA:O uses it to evade the murder knife. That's it. He doesn't use it to instantly teleport across the battlefield.

My memory fails me - who is this mage?

The crazy old man in the Brecilian Forest.

[lanmao]

As of the writing of the cardinal rules no one had discovered a means of teleportation. Well, apparently now they have.

[cljqnsnyc]

double post

Modifié par cljqnsnyc, 16 avril 2011 - 05:44 .

[Deified Data]

lanmao wrote...

As of the writing of the cardinal rules no one had discovered a means of teleportation. Well, apparently now they have.

That was another point I was considering - the codex, being an in-world, biased resource, could simply be wrong. That being said, it seems odd that your random bandit hedge-wizard discovered in 5 minutes what the Tevinter magisters and First Enchanters of old never came close to discovering, to the extent of declaring it an out-right "impossibility".

If such a seachange in magic had occured, you'd think the cardinal rules would be amended?

[cljqnsnyc]

Ha!

According to DA2, you don't even need magic to perform such extraordinary feats such as teleportation. Hell, even spiders, dogs, and the magic hating Qunari have mastered this talent!

Impressive!

[Merced652]

I'm all for rules being broken, but not by some scrub apostate on the street. Which is why Morrigan's use of the mirror to "teleport" wouldn't have bothered me. She is obviously powerful and has access to a lot of magic lore. Some stupid ass random blood mage in kirkwall is not powerful nor to daughter of an ancient abomination.

Modifié par Merced652, 16 avril 2011 - 05:45 .

[lanmao]

Deified Data wrote...

lanmao wrote...

As of the writing of the cardinal rules no one had discovered a means of teleportation. Well, apparently now they have.

That was another point I was considering - the codex, being an in-world, biased resource, could simply be wrong. That being said, it seems odd that your random bandit hedge-wizard discovered in 5 minutes what the Tevinter magisters and First Enchanters of old never came close to discovering, to the extent of declaring it an out-right "impossibility".

If such a seachange in magic had occured, you'd think the cardinal rules would be amended?

You would think so.  It does seem rather ridiculous that every mage appears perfectly capable of such a difficult magic. 

[Deified Data]

cljqnsnyc wrote...

Ha!

According to DA2, you don't even need magic to perform such extraordinary feats such as teleportation. Hell, even spiders, dogs, and the magic hating Qunari have mastered this talent!

Impressive!

For argument's sake, I'm going to assume there's a difference between "seeming to disappear" and actually doing so. Rogues who appear to teleport do so in stealth, where they can still be hit by AoE abilities - the same applies to most enemies that appear to disappear, with the exception of mages. If they're not teleporting, I'd like to know what they are doing.

[aaniadyen]

Weren't they also subverted when that one blood mage made franken-mom?

"Finally, life is finite. A truly great healer may bring someone back from the very precipice of death, when breath and heartbeat have ceased but the spirit still clings to life. But once the spirit has fled the body, it cannot be recalled. That is no failing of your skills or power, it is simple reality."

Also, you can't say an enemy mage isn't teleporting because it's just an illusion when they do actually teleport. If it means my rogue or warrior needs to run to their new apparant location to attack them physically, that's teleportation.

Modifié par aaniadyen, 16 avril 2011 - 05:57 .

[cljqnsnyc]

Falling out of the sky at the beach IS teleportation........not stealth. So magic is commonly used by non mages and beasts.

Who knew?

Modifié par cljqnsnyc, 16 avril 2011 - 05:49 .

[The Angry One]

aaniadyen wrote...

Weren't they also subverted when that one blood mage made franken-mom?

"Finally, life is finite. A truly great healer may bring someone back from the very precipice of death, when breath and heartbeat have ceased but the spirit still clings to life. But once the spirit has fled the body, it cannot be recalled. That is no failing of your skills or power, it is simple reality."

Firstly, it wasn't really subverted - Quentin didn't get his wife back. He constructed a body resembling that of his wife's with Leandra's head which still had Leandra's personality.
You could argue that Leandra wasn't dead long enough for her spirit to leave her body, or Quentin bound it somehow.

Secondly, this was done after years of research as a powerful blood mage and necromancer, this isn't the same as every common peasant mage being able to suddenly teleport on a whim.

[Merced652]

aaniadyen wrote...

Weren't they also subverted when that one blood mage made franken-mom?

"Finally, life is finite. A truly great healer may bring someone back from the very precipice of death, when breath and heartbeat have ceased but the spirit still clings to life. But once the spirit has fled the body, it cannot be recalled. That is no failing of your skills or power, it is simple reality."

Not really because the timeline lead you to believe you were just a little too late and there wou;dn't have been sufficient time for her spirit to leave before stupid ass blood mage to bind it to some zombie. Of course that brings about the question of whether every mortal is a spirit and as defined by the codex among the makers first children..

[hoorayforicecream]

aaniadyen wrote...

Weren't they also subverted when that one blood mage made franken-mom?

"Finally, life is finite. A truly great healer may bring someone back from the very precipice of death, when breath and heartbeat have ceased but the spirit still clings to life. But once the spirit has fled the body, it cannot be recalled. That is no failing of your skills or power, it is simple reality."

One could argue that Leandra's spirit hadn't yet left her body during the procedure.

[Deified Data]

aaniadyen wrote...

Weren't they also subverted when that one blood mage made franken-mom?

"Finally, life is finite. A truly great healer may bring someone back from the very precipice of death, when breath and heartbeat have ceased but the spirit still clings to life. But once the spirit has fled the body, it cannot be recalled. That is no failing of your skills or power, it is simple reality."

Possibly...

We could assume that Leandra'a spirit still clung to life momentarily, long enough to say goodbye to Hawke, but it would not linger. Eventually Quentin's flesh-golem would lose that spark and enter a sort of un-life. Quentin deluded himself into thinking he was creating anything but an undead horror.

[Justin2k]

I hate to break it to you but you're looking for something that is not there.

They just assumed with speedy up gameplay, it would be cool to have speedy up enemies who teleport around.

It's a gameplay decision, not a lore decision. They probably forgot they even wrote that.

[Deified Data]

Justin2k wrote...

I hate to break it to you but you're looking for something that is not there.

They just assumed with speedy up gameplay, it would be cool to have speedy up enemies who teleport around.

It's a gameplay decision, not a lore decision. They probably forgot they even wrote that.

That's what I feared, though you may be right. Confirmation from the writers would be excellent, however

[_Somebody]

Justin2k wrote...

I hate to break it to you but you're looking for something that is not there.

They just assumed with speedy up gameplay, it would be cool to have speedy up enemies who teleport around.

It's a gameplay decision, not a lore decision. They probably forgot they even wrote that.

I doubt they forgot. The codex entry was in DA2 as well as DAO.

In DA3 we will be able to teleport around Thedas. 

[The Angry One]

Leandra said that Quentin's magic was keeping her bound to that body.
Remember that's not the same as taking a spirit back into the body, he simply used magic to trap her in his construct.

[Herr Uhl]

The Angry One wrote...

Leandra said that Quentin's magic was keeping her bound to that body.
Remember that's not the same as taking a spirit back into the body, he simply used magic to trap her in his construct.

Something similar to a golem pretty much.

Why wouldn't he have brought back his old wife if he could bring back people from the dead?