188 réponses à ce sujet

[aaniadyen]

The Angry One wrote...

Leandra said that Quentin's magic was keeping her bound to that body.
Remember that's not the same as taking a spirit back into the body, he simply used magic to trap her in his construct.

I suppose that's true. Perhaps saying it was subverted was an overreaction. Guess it isn't too hard to imagine a mage who spends years of practice developing an ability to bind souls to inanimate objects. Still, the entry states a spirit that has left the body cannot be recalled. I suppose so long as she was still alive at the time he bound her soul it would have worked.

[Herr Uhl]

aaniadyen wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Leandra said that Quentin's magic was keeping her bound to that body.
Remember that's not the same as taking a spirit back into the body, he simply used magic to trap her in his construct.

I suppose that's true. Perhaps saying it was subverted was an overreaction. Guess it isn't too hard to imagine a mage who spends years of practice developing an ability to bind souls to inanimate objects. Still, the entry states a spirit that has left the body cannot be recalled. I suppose so long as she was still alive at the time he bound her soul it would have worked.

We have a seer and two Almarri dudes trapped in statues as well as an elf in a gem before. The Leandra thing wasn't that odd.

[The Angry One]

aaniadyen wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Leandra said that Quentin's magic was keeping her bound to that body.
Remember that's not the same as taking a spirit back into the body, he simply used magic to trap her in his construct.

I suppose that's true. Perhaps saying it was subverted was an overreaction. Guess it isn't too hard to imagine a mage who spends years of practice developing an ability to bind souls to inanimate objects. Still, the entry states a spirit that has left the body cannot be recalled. I suppose so long as she was still alive at the time he bound her soul it would have worked.

Keep in mind it also says the spirit can cling onto the body for a short time after death which is why spirit healers can appear to ressurect people.
Leandra's abduction and body swap happens within one day, even if she was dead for a time it still doesn't break any established rules.

[bushidobonkai]

It wasn't even internally consistent in the first game. The fourth summoning circle in the Circle Tower teleported Arl Foreshadow who promptly teleported himself back out. While the fact that the entry appears in tame which allows you to play with narrative, its still likely just an error.

[Vicious]

Crappy way of making Mages tougher with a crappy explanation for it.

[Deified Data]

Vicious wrote...

Crappy way of making Mages tougher with a crappy explanation for it.

The problem is there isn't an explanation for it. If there was, maybe it'd satisfy me.

[Cutlass Jack]

Just to put this out there, David has repeatedly said the Codex entries are just what the writer believed to be true. They could have been completely wrong or trying to decieve the reader.

And on a personal level, I always took the 'one foot in front of the other' line you highlighted from that book as purposely poking fun of the fact its the only way a player can travel in the game due to lack of horses, etc.

[bleetman]

I'm more curious as to why mages, who are apparently capable of teleporting or otherwise instantly and undetectably transporting themselves moderate distances, don't simply escape the Gallows by doing precisely that. We see mages use secret underground tunnels, attempt resistance with their other magic or become abominations in times of desperation, but none seem to try something every hedge mage and mercenary apostate you ordinarily fight are able to perform.

Modifié par bleetman, 16 avril 2011 - 07:49 .

[IanPolaris]

Filament wrote...

http://social.biowar...98&lf=8#3180676

I read it.  In this case it's fecal matter from a bull.  I have seen Arcane Horrors, Mages, and even street apostates teleport across the battlefield faster than any character could possibly run.  Thus it is teleportation and it does violate the cardinal rules of magic.

Having Morrigan apparently violate them with a major game-changing artifact of the ancient elves is one thing.  Violating what is thought to be a cornerstone of magic by John or Jane Apostate in street is something else again (esp when PC mages can not get such magic).  [Although Merrill can with Stone throw which is very explicitly Teleportation and again in violation what what is though to be a cardinal rule of magic]

-Polaris

[arcsquad12]

cljqnsnyc wrote...

Ha!

According to DA2, you don't even need magic to perform such extraordinary feats such as teleportation. Hell, even spiders, dogs, and the magic hating Qunari have mastered this talent!

Impressive!

Qunari deserve a special mention. These guys have found a way to contract their mass into an object small enough to hide inside a shin high bush, and then spring out in ambush.

[Maverick827]

Yeah, what's up with this inconsistency, Gaider? It's not only limited to enemy mages, either: when I go to my map and choose to travel to a new area, I'm instantly teleported there. That is such bull****.

[Crossroads_Wanderer]

Merced652 wrote...

I'm all for rules being broken, but not by some scrub apostate on the street. Which is why Morrigan's use of the mirror to "teleport" wouldn't have bothered me. She is obviously powerful and has access to a lot of magic lore. Some stupid ass random blood mage in kirkwall is not powerful nor to daughter of an ancient abomination.

If we're assuming that the Cardinal Rules of Magic is correct, it is possible that teleportation wasn't known before, but is relatively easy to perform once it is known. In this way, it would be a bit like technology. There is technology that we possess now that we didn't before, but which is relatively easy to replicate given the right knowledge.

There is also a possible explanation I like that I saw on another one of these threads. There are things that the circles keep from their students; maybe teleportation magic is one of these things. Teleportation would be pretty powerful and possibly world-altering, and maybe the Chantry doesn't want that kind of power in the hands of the mages. The Cardinal Rules of Magic is presumably a teaching text, so it would say that teleportation isn't possible to discourage experimentation in that area.

Modifié par Crossroads_Wanderer, 16 avril 2011 - 08:24 .

[Volourn]

"Now any common mage can use that?"

Since when is any mage 'common'? LAW Doesn't that defeat the entire purpsoe of mages? They're anything but.

[Fallstar]

Maverick827 wrote...

Yeah, what's up with this inconsistency, Gaider? It's not only limited to enemy mages, either: when I go to my map and choose to travel to a new area, I'm instantly teleported there. That is such bull****.

Actually thats what the loading screen is for. In case you didn't know, the loading screen exists in a higher dimension with a significantly stronger gravitational field, causing significant curvature of spacetime for the user which results in seemingly little time having passed for the player compared to the large period of time elapsed in game. Hope that cleared things up for you.

[Fallstar]

Volourn wrote...

"Now any common mage can use that?"

Since when is any mage 'common'? LAW Doesn't that defeat the entire purpsoe of mages? They're anything but.

No actually. They are very common in DA:2.

[IanPolaris]

Filament wrote...

And Merrill's Stone's Throw is explicitly not teleportation, it's about her moving through the ground, and its description and animation indicate this.

It moves her from point A to point B faster than she can run (in fact instantaneously in battle...and yes I have used it for exactly that purpose).  By the standards of the world of Dragon Age and the Cardinal Rules of magic, that IS Teleportation.

If Teleportation were suddenly discovered and so easy that even circle apprentices could do it, then it should be available to all mage characters including the PC.

-Polaris

[Nerdage]

Magical knowledge isn't *done* by the time of DA, there's all the magic that was lost with the old elven empire for a start, so you can't assume that codex is correct. Speeking of elves, the eluvian allows teleportation, the first enchanter doesn't mention them. Plus the chantry-controlled circle isn't exactly the cutting edge of magical research.

That said, when so many random mages are doing it there's probably an easier workaround, like what David says in the link.

[bleetman]

Crossroads_Wanderer wrote...

There is also a possible explanation I like that I saw on another one of these threads. There are things that the circles keep from their students; maybe teleportation magic is one of these things. Teleportation would be pretty powerful and possibly world-altering, and maybe the Chantry doesn't want that kind of power in the hands of the mages. The Cardinal Rules of Magic is presumably a teaching text, so it would say that teleportation isn't possible to discourage experimentation in that area.

My issue with that explanation is that the moment an in-game fight lists mages as 'circle mage' or the like, they tend to go warping around in much the same way as anyone else. I saw several doing it after siding with the templars at the conclusion of act 3, too. Assuming they burst out the emergency spell books or otherwise taught themselves beforehand, why not just, y'know, leave?

Modifié par bleetman, 16 avril 2011 - 08:35 .

[IanPolaris]

nerdage wrote...

Magical knowledge isn't *done* by the time of DA, there's all the magic that was lost with the old elven empire for a start, so you can't assume that codex is correct. Speeking of elves, the eluvian allows teleportation, the first enchanter doesn't mention them. Plus the chantry-controlled circle isn't exactly the cutting edge of magical research.

That said, when so many random mages are doing it there's probably an easier workaround, like what David says in the link.

Except what DG says in the link is Fecal Matter from a Bull.  If the mage vanished and then reappeared elsewhere in a time as long (or longer) than it would take to run, I could buy it.  But they don't.  I've SEEN Arcane Horrors, Bloodmages, and even rank amature apostates, vanish from one side of the battlefield and insantly reappear on th other.

That IS Teleportation.  No getting around it.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

Filament wrote...

I think you're quibbling over semantics now. (or whatever that word was that Maria said was more appropriate)

Yes, it's faster than she can run, but it's not blinking her out of existence in one spot and then blinking her into existence in another spot. She's moving quickly, through the ground.

No I'm not.  The Cardinal Rules of Magic very specifically (and have from the beginning) very explicitly said it was impossible to move with magic faster than you could put one foot in front of the other (i.e. run).  By this stanard what Merrill and the NPC mages do IS teleportation.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

Filament wrote...

By that standard Isabela the non-mage is also breaking the Cardinal Rules of Magic. You're taking the rule far too literally.

No she isn't because it's not a magical ability (supposedly) and therefore not subject to this restriction.

Let's be clear, I don't mind tactical (battlefield) teleportation ( but I think my PCs shoud be able to have it too), but don't violate your own game lore and then think we are too dumb to notice (or tell us it's not really breaking your lore when it's damned obvious it is).

-Polaris

Modifié par IanPolaris, 16 avril 2011 - 08:45 .