188 réponses à ce sujet

[Boiny Bunny]

David Gaider wrote...

The main purpose behind the ban on teleportation with regards to magic is actually to prevent two things: distance as being irrelevant and obstacles being easily surmountable. Gameplay often dictates that, in order to employ any kind of obstacle in a setting where teleportation exists, you need to create some kind of hand-wave in order to make it happen ("tachyon interference in the atmosphere has rendered the transporters inoperable!").

Technically speaking, what the mages in DA2 are doing breaks neither of these rules-- the mages are jumping between two spots but are neither traveling nor passing through obstacles. It's not supposed to be literal teleportation, either. The idea was to have a visual effect that travels between the spot where they disappear and the spot where they reappear... they're moving very quickly.

But that effect never got implemented, and thus the result really looks like literal teleportation. Which makes me unhappy. With any luck I'll have this fixed in the future as, no, mages are not actually breaking the cardinal rule.

I wouldn't mind knowing, out of curiousity, is there a lore reason that Hawke and his/her companions cannot do this as well?

[David Gaider]

Boiny Bunny wrote...
I wouldn't mind knowing, out of curiousity, is there a lore reason that Hawke and his/her companions cannot do this as well?

Not at all. Not every talent or spell that's possible in the world is represented in DA2, just as not every specialization is.

[Gavinthelocust]

My hope for a possible lovecraftian superpower blood mage specialization returns. :happy:

[Fruit of the Doom]

Can mages turn people into toads?

[IanPolaris]

David Gaider wrote...

Boiny Bunny wrote...
I wouldn't mind knowing, out of curiousity, is there a lore reason that Hawke and his/her companions cannot do this as well?

Not at all. Not every talent or spell that's possible in the world is represented in DA2, just as not every specialization is.

Perhaps not.  I could see some rare or obscure types of magic (or combat techniques) not being available to the PC and/or NPCs, but do you honestly think that a magic that every single mage in Kirkwall from the lowest apostate to the highest ranking mage we run into, would NOT at least be known by a mage PC hero?  Really?  Wouldn't Bethany in the circle at least know of it?  It just doesn't seem very plausible.

-Polaris

[Boiny Bunny]

David Gaider wrote...

Boiny Bunny wrote...
I wouldn't mind knowing, out of curiousity, is there a lore reason that Hawke and his/her companions cannot do this as well?

Not at all. Not every talent or spell that's possible in the world is represented in DA2, just as not every specialization is.

Thanks for the response.  I was wondering before why the enemy mages in Dragon Age 2 seem to have vastly different spells to those available to Hawke and his/her party.  I suppose this can be explained by the fact that Hawke and the mages he/she travels with (Bethany, Anders, and Merrill) all come from Ferelden.  Perhaps different schools of magic are taught in the Free Marches?

[Sharn01]

Boiny Bunny wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

The main purpose behind the ban on teleportation with regards to magic is actually to prevent two things: distance as being irrelevant and obstacles being easily surmountable. Gameplay often dictates that, in order to employ any kind of obstacle in a setting where teleportation exists, you need to create some kind of hand-wave in order to make it happen ("tachyon interference in the atmosphere has rendered the transporters inoperable!").

Technically speaking, what the mages in DA2 are doing breaks neither of these rules-- the mages are jumping between two spots but are neither traveling nor passing through obstacles. It's not supposed to be literal teleportation, either. The idea was to have a visual effect that travels between the spot where they disappear and the spot where they reappear... they're moving very quickly.

But that effect never got implemented, and thus the result really looks like literal teleportation. Which makes me unhappy. With any luck I'll have this fixed in the future as, no, mages are not actually breaking the cardinal rule.

I wouldn't mind knowing, out of curiousity, is there a lore reason that Hawke and his/her companions cannot do this as well?

I dont think its really a big deal, a short distance teleport for a mage in combat is more realistic then a short distance teleport for a rogue, or a warrior making a small earthquake by punching the ground.  I never considered game mechanics to be indicative of the actual lore of the world, the impossible was done in origins let alone DA2, non magic classes are capable of magical feats as much as those that are, and mages who are suppose to require a group of templars to take down are relegated to a low damage support class in DA2. 

Game mechanics are there to make the game fun, or at least make the attempt at it.  While I would love for the classes and game mechanics to represent the lore bioware went the other direction,  I think it should be more a recommendation for future games then a complaint about lore, when lore is far more blatantly broken every few seconds of gameplay then something as minor as this.

[brightblueink]

David Gaider wrote...

Boiny Bunny wrote...
I wouldn't mind knowing, out of curiousity, is there a lore reason that Hawke and his/her companions cannot do this as well?

Not at all. Not every talent or spell that's possible in the world is represented in DA2, just as not every specialization is.

Besides, Merrill can travel through the ground and assassins can be invisible and use smoke to poof from one place to another, seemingly like teleporting...so yeah.

[jcp234]

David Gaider wrote...

Boiny Bunny wrote...
I wouldn't mind knowing, out of curiousity, is there a lore reason that Hawke and his/her companions cannot do this as well?

Not at all. Not every talent or spell that's possible in the world is represented in DA2, just as not every specialization is.

I love this response.  Gets me excited about the potential spell selection in Dragon Age 3.

[Icy Magebane]

It probably just means that Champion and Arcane Warrior still exist in the lore, but not in DA2. They might give mages a teleportation spell at some point, but that's a 50/50 shot as far as I can tell.

[atheelogos]

jcp234 wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Boiny Bunny wrote...
I wouldn't mind knowing, out of curiousity, is there a lore reason that Hawke and his/her companions cannot do this as well?

Not at all. Not every talent or spell that's possible in the world is represented in DA2, just as not every specialization is.

I love this response.  Gets me excited about the potential spell selection in Dragon Age 3.

:happy:

[Deified Data]

David Gaider wrote...

The main purpose behind the ban on teleportation with regards to magic is actually to prevent two things: distance as being irrelevant and obstacles being easily surmountable. Gameplay often dictates that, in order to employ any kind of obstacle in a setting where teleportation exists, you need to create some kind of hand-wave in order to make it happen ("tachyon interference in the atmosphere has rendered the transporters inoperable!").

Technically speaking, what the mages in DA2 are doing breaks neither of these rules-- the mages are jumping between two spots but are neither traveling nor passing through obstacles. It's not supposed to be literal teleportation, either. The idea was to have a visual effect that travels between the spot where they disappear and the spot where they reappear... they're moving very quickly.

But that effect never got implemented, and thus the result really looks like literal teleportation. Which makes me unhappy. With any luck I'll have this fixed in the future as, no, mages are not actually breaking the cardinal rule.

Thank you. Is it fair to say they're using magic to propel themselves at high speeds from one area to another, like a Force Mage using force magic on his/her self?

[andraip]

David Gaider wrote...

But that effect never got implemented,

I'm just curios, if Bioware would make a list of things that got implemented in DA2 and things that never got implemented due to the fact that March 2011 was coming to soon, which one of them would be bigger...

[David Gaider]

Deified Data wrote...
Thank you. Is it fair to say they're using magic to propel themselves at high speeds from one area to another, like a Force Mage using force magic on his/her self?

I think it's either that (moving very quickly) or they're transforming themselves into energy for a brief period and moving to the new spot (not unlike how the shapeshifter transformed into a swarm of bugs and did the same thing). I don't know, to be honest. I didn't make the spell list.

andraip wrote...
I'm just curios, if Bioware would make a list
of things that got implemented in DA2 and things that never got
implemented due to the fact that March 2011 was coming to soon, which
one of them would be bigger...[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/unsure.png[/smilie]

The list for DAO would be larger-- by far. There are hundreds of things that never got implemented like we wanted (or at all) in DAO, despite (or perhaps because of) the longer period of development. DA2's scope was smaller, and most things that got cut were cut fairly early in the process-- which is still heartbreaking, but hardly as bad as some of the cuts for DAO were.

But that happens with every game. I know you guys don't like to hear about things like deadlines or cuts-- and why would you? All you care about are results, which is as it should be. So having a discussion over things like resources and limitations isn't likely to be helpful to anyone involved.

Modifié par David Gaider, 19 avril 2011 - 11:20 .

[The Angry One]

David Gaider wrote...

Boiny Bunny wrote...
I wouldn't mind knowing, out of curiousity, is there a lore reason that Hawke and his/her companions cannot do this as well?

Not at all. Not every talent or spell that's possible in the world is represented in DA2, just as not every specialization is.

I don't recall fighting any mage that shared my abilities anyway.
No fireballs, cones of cold, fists of the maker, hemmorhage or whatever, they all use those wind up bolts, teleports, shields and that delayed aoe attack.
Hell, blood mage npcs don't even use Blood Magic (I have 2 NPC blood mage skills on my char, they're not only usable without Blood Magic but if you edit them to require Blood Magic, blood mage npcs can no longer use them).
This also goes for Templars and any other class/spec.

I dislike this really as it portrays a firm disconnect between player and npc.

[hoorayforicecream]

The Angry One wrote...

I don't recall fighting any mage that shared my abilities anyway.
No fireballs, cones of cold, fists of the maker, hemmorhage or whatever, they all use those wind up bolts, teleports, shields and that delayed aoe attack.
Hell, blood mage npcs don't even use Blood Magic (I have 2 NPC blood mage skills on my char, they're not only usable without Blood Magic but if you edit them to require Blood Magic, blood mage npcs can no longer use them).
This also goes for Templars and any other class/spec.

I dislike this really as it portrays a firm disconnect between player and npc.

I thought that the NPC mages used Hemorrhage too... isn't it that reddish blackish cloud of stun stun ow pain death spell? I could be misremembering.

While it does kind of create a disconnect, I think it was intended because there's no inherent feel for what sort of AE is and isn't safe for your characters by default. If you cast firestorm and your enemy casts firestorm, you see globs of fire falling from the sky and don't know whether you're going to get exploded or not. I realize that it doesn't make a difference in nightmare or possible hard with friendly fire on, but would certainly confuse and annoy most folks on normal or casual.

[Torax]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

I don't recall fighting any mage that shared my abilities anyway.
No fireballs, cones of cold, fists of the maker, hemmorhage or whatever, they all use those wind up bolts, teleports, shields and that delayed aoe attack.
Hell, blood mage npcs don't even use Blood Magic (I have 2 NPC blood mage skills on my char, they're not only usable without Blood Magic but if you edit them to require Blood Magic, blood mage npcs can no longer use them).
This also goes for Templars and any other class/spec.

I dislike this really as it portrays a firm disconnect between player and npc.

I thought that the NPC mages used Hemorrhage too... isn't it that reddish blackish cloud of stun stun ow pain death spell? I could be misremembering.

While it does kind of create a disconnect, I think it was intended because there's no inherent feel for what sort of AE is and isn't safe for your characters by default. If you cast firestorm and your enemy casts firestorm, you see globs of fire falling from the sky and don't know whether you're going to get exploded or not. I realize that it doesn't make a difference in nightmare or possible hard with friendly fire on, but would certainly confuse and annoy most folks on normal or casual.

I think that makes the most sense. In WoW I hated when the group would want to move the pack cause my Hurricane looks just like one some npcs can do. Wastes time and mana. Would happen in a solo rpg as well.

Modifié par Torax, 20 avril 2011 - 12:57 .

[Elessara]

@Boiny Bunny ... I believe if you look at the description of Force Mage it says that the mages of Kirkwall use this type of magic or it was developed there, so I would assume that each Circle could have it's own special technique or such.

I wonder if more specialisations will be added with an expansion? If they're even going to do an xpac instead of smaller dlc's. But it would be nice to have another mage specialisation at least. I find myself not wanting to use Blood Magic for RP reasons but I don't really feel like much of a healer type. It would be nice to have another option.

[The Angry One]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

I thought that the NPC mages used Hemorrhage too... isn't it that reddish blackish cloud of stun stun ow pain death spell? I could be misremembering.

No. NPCs use a different but similar spell. With Hemorrhage you stab yourself and the aoe appears for a second with other effects.
The NPC spell lifts you off the ground, the aoe is much smaller, lasts longer and does more damage.

While it does kind of create a disconnect, I think it was intended because there's no inherent feel for what sort of AE is and isn't safe for your characters by default. If you cast firestorm and your enemy casts firestorm, you see globs of fire falling from the sky and don't know whether you're going to get exploded or not. I realize that it doesn't make a difference in nightmare or possible hard with friendly fire on, but would certainly confuse and annoy most folks on normal or casual.

All in all I preferred it the way DA:O did it though, NPC mages used the same spells as me, it felt more natural and I could learn their tactics while playing my mage.
DA2's enemies are very straightforward and predictable in that regard.

[hoorayforicecream]

The Angry One wrote...

All in all I preferred it the way DA:O did it though, NPC mages used the same spells as me, it felt more natural and I could learn their tactics while playing my mage.
DA2's enemies are very straightforward and predictable in that regard.

I actually prefer DA2's mages over DA:O's mages. When I was playing for the first time, running into a group of enemy mages meant I'd probably have to pause, look for the guy who just fireballed my team and KOed somebody, then reload and metagame my way through. I found it a lot more annoying. In DA2, I found mages and was like "Cool, let's kill them".

Then again, it cut both ways... in DA:O, the inevitable reload would lead to a mana clash and a mop up.

[Torax]

Yay for the entrance before Fort Drak with 2 casters far apart from each other. Amirite?

[_Aine_]

David Gaider wrote...
The list for DAO would be larger-- by far. There are hundreds of things that never got implemented like we wanted (or at all) in DAO, despite (or perhaps because of) the longer period of development. DA2's scope was smaller, and most things that got cut were cut fairly early in the process-- which is still heartbreaking, but hardly as bad as some of the cuts for DAO were.

But that happens with every game. I know you guys don't like to hear about things like deadlines or cuts-- and why would you? All you care about are results, which is as it should be. So having a discussion over things like resources and limitations isn't likely to be helpful to anyone involved.

I would actually be interested in knowing that sort of thing, but I am just a nerd like that.   I don't doubt that most people don't care though, it is detail...details we really don't see on this end of things, well, aside from what we see is missing what we don't that is.    

My real interest is actually not what is cut or even why ( despite curiosity and my poor cat) but rather how do you prioritize what stays and goes?  Like, why would (just for an example) a quest be cut as opposed to cinematics or vice versa? Anyway, just thinking out loud there...

Mages:  despite the teleportation (illusion) spells I found *playing* a mage a lot more fun in DA2.  I couldn't even tell you why, really.  But I am attempting to play one again in DA:O right now and they just feel underwhelming in comparison. Maybe they were over-powered in DA2.  Hard to say.  =)  

[TEWR]

Icy Magebane wrote...

It probably just means that Champion and Arcane Warrior still exist in the lore, but not in DA2. They might give mages a teleportation spell at some point, but that's a 50/50 shot as far as I can tell.

And really, the Arcane Warrior specialization being absent actually made sense considering it was a long lost type of magic where the only person who remembered an inkling of it was trapped inside an ancient phylactery that the Warden stumbled across.