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[metalisticpain]

tek427 wrote...

I've just finished my first playthrough of Dragon Age II and I encountered my toughest choice in the game. Either kill Anders for nuking the Chantry and sparking a war between the mages and templars, or lose Sebastian and (potentially) have him seek vengeance on Hawke and Anders sometime in the future. What made this choice so hard was because I like both Anders and Sebastian and I hate having campanions leave my party forever. After sitting at my keyboard for about 10 minutes I decided to have Anders rejoin my party at the expense of Sebastian swearing vengeance on me.

Congrats to Bioware for making a situation where I had to truely think of what I wanted. Although I feel bad for Anders for those that killed him.

Anyway my point is: what was the hardest decision in Dragon Age II for you? What made it so hard?

Anders kill/not kill was tough. But in the end I found him annoying and he deserved to pay for his crimes. I was majorly annoyed that he turned my moment into maytredom.

Choosing to kill fenris was def the easiest decision though

[AlexXIV]

Kragghack wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Wardens get the curse. They are not immune to it, it just does have a different course than if people are getting infected in battle or whatever. So yeah making Bethany a Warden is letting her getting the curse. She won't grow old, will have nightmares and spend her life fighting darkspawn. Not to mention that she probably never can have children. If she joins the Circle she does have a couple of difficult years there but eventually the Circle dissolves and Hawke can have her back and she can have a 'relatively' (for a mage) normal life.

I admire Wardens and all and I love my Grey Warden but I would not wish someone I care for to become a Grey Warden.

On the other side, Hawke (or anyone else) doesn't know that the Circle will crumble in a couple of years, so if she goes to the circle it is for life when it happens. We know that the circle will fall ownit since we have played the game, so it may make the choice easier. But then it is not a "RPG-chocie" where you play a character who makes chocies dependent on his knowledge and personality but ou you who make a perosnal chocie for whats best in the end of the story.

There is no RPG choice to make her a Warden. For once if you knew she would get the darkspawn curse you wouldn't take her to begin with. And then you'd have to know you meet Wardens, and that you only meet them and they only help you if Anders is with you. So it is a metagameing choice anyway.

[Faroth]

Hardest thing for me was having Bethany tainted and become a Gray Warden. I liked her and had intended to keep her with me, the sisters Hawke blazing a path through Kirkwall! When I lost her, I was really disappointed.

Since Anders was my Hawke's love interest and she helped him in the Chantry, I killed him. It was betrayal of the deepest kind and I couldn't allow him to go unpunished.

[AlexXIV]

Faroth wrote...

Hardest thing for me was having Bethany tainted and become a Gray Warden. I liked her and had intended to keep her with me, the sisters Hawke blazing a path through Kirkwall! When I lost her, I was really disappointed.

Since Anders was my Hawke's love interest and she helped him in the Chantry, I killed him. It was betrayal of the deepest kind and I couldn't allow him to go unpunished.

I guess if your girlfriend ever cheats on you I'll find your picture in the newpaper.

[Faroth]

AlexXIV wrote...

I guess if your girlfriend ever cheats on you I'll find your picture in the newpaper.

Not quite the same as blowing up a building filled with people with the specific intent of starting a war. 

Unfaithfulness isn't on the same level as mass murder. O_o

Modifié par Faroth, 24 avril 2011 - 05:26 .

[AlexXIV]

Faroth wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

I guess if your girlfriend ever cheats on you I'll find your picture in the newpaper.

Not quite the same as blowing up a building filled with people with the specific intent of starting a war. 

Unfaithfulness isn't on the same level as mass murder. O_o

Ah I thought you were upset that he lied about it.

[Faroth]

Well, he was right. If he had said what he was doing, I would have stopped him.

I felt very betrayed that he essentially used me as a tool for mass murder and instigating the war I'm trying to prevent. I supported the mages, trying to improve things and stop the Templars as they got more out of control and then he up and uses me to explodify everything so, as he says, "There can be no compromise."

Jerk face...

[Eowien Thiele]

The hardest decision I made was whether to take Carter with me on the Deep Roads Expedition.

I had no problem deciding to spare Anders' life. The Chantry and the people of Kirkwall were aiding and abetting genocide against mages. Anders struck out against the whole system that supported that genocide. And he's right - there is no compromise with genocide. I know this is a game, but I have had a hard time reading people justifying actions that, by international law in the real world, constitute genocide - and not realizing that they were actually complicit!

[haroldhardluck]

Eowien Thiele wrote...
I had no problem deciding to spare Anders' life. The Chantry and the people of Kirkwall were aiding and abetting genocide against mages.

The people of Kirkwall were not aiding and abetting genocide. Some were aiding and abetting the mages. One of your quest was stopping Templar death squads hunting down these people. There was a very active underground working against Meredith and if you declared for the mages at the beginning of Act 3 they contact you and give you quests. By Act 3 Kirkwall was an occuppied city. The Kirkwallers no more aided and abetted than the Dutch aided and abetted genoicide during WW2 just because Anne Frank was eventually caught. They did what they could unlike the Chantry.

The Chantry also did not aid and abet. What they did was much worst. They stood aside and did nothing because the Grand Cleric was willfully blind to what was happening and used a narrow interpretation of scripture as blinders. She lacked the moral strength to make a choice that she should have made and clung to dogma as her excuse. It was clear in the opening scene of Act 3 that she had the moral authority to stop the oppression of the mages if she chose to.

Harold

[Alice829]

It's a toss-up between Anders and siding with the mages/Templars. My first Hawke was romancing Anders, but I became outraged when he used the "If you really loved me, you'd do what I say" blackmail bit on his Justice quest. There wasn't any way to break the romance at that point, so I actually went back to the beginning of Act 2 and romanced Isabela instead. My first play through was blind, so I didn't know what he was going to do, but I had the feeling it wasn't good. I was really glad later I hadn't helped him. That Hawke chose to kill him. I didn't like it and couldn't give a flying f*** about Sebastian or his threats, but I couldn't see letting Anders go after he murdered a bunch of innocents, even if Elphina should have gotten off her a** and 'done something'. If he felt no remorse for blowing up a chantry full of bystanders, what would Anders/Justice do next? He even says earlier that there is no separation anymore between him and Justice/Vengeance, and it's pretty clear who's winning that battle. I also think that death for Anders at that point (and finally being free of Justice) might actually be a form of mercy, albeit a harsh one. Anders, the real one, was horrified when he nearly killed the escaped Mage (or does, in some playthroughs). Would the real Anders really feel nothing over killing innocents in the Chantry? That person is already dead.

Hawke generally ends up supporting the mages, but a lot of that is because there's no way she's letting Meredith kill her sister, no way no how. Next playthrough, will make Bethany a Grey Warden and take her out of that equation.

[Rifneno]

Faroth wrote...

Well, he was right. If he had said what he was doing, I would have stopped him.

I felt very betrayed that he essentially used me as a tool for mass murder and instigating the war I'm trying to prevent. I supported the mages, trying to improve things and stop the Templars as they got more out of control and then he up and uses me to explodify everything so, as he says, "There can be no compromise."

Jerk face...

And this is why he absolutely cannot trust the PC with his plans.  Even if on full friendmance mode with a Hawke that has as much as said "I will take down the templars by any means necessary."  Because doing so would force them to give you a choice to do something about it, and since the ending demands that he do it and Hawke be innocent (remember Cassandra's point of view), you can't be given a choice in it.  In other words, the whole "framed narrative to always end the same way" thing is made of reinforced double-forged failium.

[ashez2ashes]

Saephy wrote...


Pretty much this, to the letter, for me as well.
It was also hard because I really thought you could cure him and I desperately wanted this to be true and had problems accepting this was not the case (I still do, DLC anyone?).

Wasn't the warden able to de-demonfy Eamon's kid in DA:O?  Or was that just another plot hole?

[AlexXIV]

Rifneno wrote...

Faroth wrote...

Well, he was right. If he had said what he was doing, I would have stopped him.

I felt very betrayed that he essentially used me as a tool for mass murder and instigating the war I'm trying to prevent. I supported the mages, trying to improve things and stop the Templars as they got more out of control and then he up and uses me to explodify everything so, as he says, "There can be no compromise."

Jerk face...

And this is why he absolutely cannot trust the PC with his plans.  Even if on full friendmance mode with a Hawke that has as much as said "I will take down the templars by any means necessary."  Because doing so would force them to give you a choice to do something about it, and since the ending demands that he do it and Hawke be innocent (remember Cassandra's point of view), you can't be given a choice in it.  In other words, the whole "framed narrative to always end the same way" thing is made of reinforced double-forged failium.

Yeah even if Hawke is pro-mage, blowing up the Chantry is bad. Because it doesn't help either side. And causing a war could destroy the whole world so I doubt the mages' situation would improve then.

[Rifneno]

AlexXIV wrote...

Yeah even if Hawke is pro-mage, blowing up the Chantry is bad. Because it doesn't help either side. And causing a war could destroy the whole world so I doubt the mages' situation would improve then.

I think "destroy the whole world" is a bit dramatic.  I wouldn't have taken the Chantry bomb route, but the multinational rebellion it leads to, is a very good thing IMO.  The Chantry has been abusing its power for 1,000 years and they aren't going to stop unless they're forced to stop.

[haroldhardluck]

Rifneno wrote...
The Chantry has been abusing its power for 1,000 years and they aren't going to stop unless they're forced to stop.

This is questionable. In Fereldon we have a Circle that works well. In Kirkwall we have a Circle that does not work well. In Tevinter, we have a Circle that is controlled by the mages not the Chantry. The Circle addresses a real need to watch out for blood mages and demon summoners, which are different. You can be a blood mage without summoning any demons.

The problem with the system under the Chantry is it is easy to abuse it and create the situation in Kirkwall. There is no question that even when the system works well as in Fereldon, the mages are subject to far more restrictions than seem justified. Under the Black Chantry in Tevinter, the Circle allows the mages to rule and create people such as Denarius and the Tevinter slavers that the Warden defeated in the Alienage.

The Circle system worked well for 1,000 years but it is showing its age. The subversion of the system in Tevinter and the oppression in Kirkwall are the results. Yet something is needed to watch over the mages. I presume the subject of DA3 is the founding of such a system that is more fair than the Circle.

Harold