162 réponses à ce sujet

[IrishSpectre257]

I felt that the lack of a traditional inventory fit Mass Effect better. I have a fully stocked armory and research lab on my state-of-the-art ship. Why would Shepard be picking up and keeping equipment from dead mercs?

[Murmillos]

Walker White wrote...


What is true is that you get no inventory for loot. But loot makes no sense in a futuristic game. 3D printing is going to change everything; we are seeing that happen now, in present day. No one wants to buy your second hand crap, when they can print off a perfect copy on their home printer. Loot will not even be worth the fuel to carry it out on the shuttle. Scan the schematics of the unique devices, and be done with it.

Furthermore, we most certainly do not want what we had in ME1: a magical bag of holding that allowed Shepard to run full speed while carrying 150 suits of Krogan armor. And to swap our weapon mods in mid fire. That stuff needs to die, and be shot again if it tries to get back up.

Don't worry, we get you - we really do. ME1 had a very poorly thought out and implemented loot system of recent days. I mean, nobody wants to go back to ME1 loot system, but not having a loot system was just as a bad planned thought out idea.

As you've stated, we can do loot in ME3 in a futurist way that makes sense but doesn't bog down the system with a unrealistic "bag of holding". Look, ME2 had "upgrades" to the weapons systems - how is that much more unrealistic then ME1, other then we had to wait to buy it from stores instead of finding it on the body of an enemy?

ME has a perfect tool that bridges the that logic gap. The OMNI TOOL. There are better items, better armor set pieces for ourselves and squad mates and now in ME3 weapon mod pieces. We can find those better loot items, on mini-bosses, computers that we have to hack, crates, etc.etc. Then Shepard and squad use the Omnitool to scan the new item. Once you make it back to ship (or the rare instance the item you find is "brand-new" which you can just equip right there [As in some ME2 weapon instances...]) you can then equip those item to whom you desire needs it, unless its one of those automatic upgrades to your weapon or armor.

Did that just rock your world.. because it did mine.

Modifié par Murmillos, 17 avril 2011 - 01:15 .

[sympathy4saren]

Savber100 wrote...

Guys... saren4sympathy... understand this simple concept

BIOWARE IS NOT MAKING A PURE RPG!

Mass Effect is a hybrid of a shooter and a RPG. We call it a RPG because of the choice and consequences of a player's choice in the game where the player plays a role in deciding the fate of the galaxy and not because we can decide whether have a cybernetic backpack to place your manly pink armor.
Bioware is trying something new by combining genres. Remember that Bioware's main goal has ALWAYS been to create GOOD STORIES combined with an interactive experience which does not always need to be a RPG. If you don't like Bioware's direction, then don't buy Bioware products. But don't treat Bioware like some **** who is entitled to serve a single audience forever and then call them a panderer to the so-called " stupid shooter crowd"

Interesting perspective. Except, of course, the fact that during a recent interview the co-founders claimed, specifically, that their main goal is to please the core fanbase that has been with them since their founding, and that they always keep their core fanbase as a priority.

Well...that's me. Sorry buddy.

It's not just mass effect, but go stroll over to the Dragon Age forum. Much resentment and displeasure at the newbies.

[sympathy4saren]

Mecha Tengu wrote...

inventory too hard. Halo make recharging shields idea. Infinity ward capitalized recharging health for call of duty 2(+). Easy, action fast paced. Companies follow suit. Dumbed for masses, want fun action game. Mass effect 1 too trippy, Press R to throw grenade. Many complaints. Bioware decide to streamline into shooter, less work involved in gameplay, more emphasis on story, fun for the children and console gamers. RPG too boring, not enough button mash

Lol. EXACTLY.

[Merci357]

sympathy4saren wrote...

Savber100 wrote...

Guys... saren4sympathy... understand this simple concept

BIOWARE IS NOT MAKING A PURE RPG!

Mass Effect is a hybrid of a shooter and a RPG. We call it a RPG because of the choice and consequences of a player's choice in the game where the player plays a role in deciding the fate of the galaxy and not because we can decide whether have a cybernetic backpack to place your manly pink armor.
Bioware is trying something new by combining genres. Remember that Bioware's main goal has ALWAYS been to create GOOD STORIES combined with an interactive experience which does not always need to be a RPG. If you don't like Bioware's direction, then don't buy Bioware products. But don't treat Bioware like some **** who is entitled to serve a single audience forever and then call them a panderer to the so-called " stupid shooter crowd"

Interesting perspective. Except, of course, the fact that during a recent interview the co-founders claimed, specifically, that their main goal is to please the core fanbase that has been with them since their founding, and that they always keep their core fanbase as a priority.

Well...that's me. Sorry buddy.

It's not just mass effect, but go stroll over to the Dragon Age forum. Much resentment and displeasure at the newbies.

But it's me, too. And - regarding the topic - I very much prefer ME2's approach over ME1's piles of trash loot. Sorry. Now, would I prefer a middle ground? Sure. But don't judge how things could have been, but how they are. It's far from perfect, but it's an improvement over converting xxx items into omni gel.

[AbsolutGrndZer0]

Sounds to me like inventory in ME3 will be just like it is, or very similar, to ME2. 

[eye basher]

Naltair wrote...

I used to pick up pipes and bats in Double Dragon, obviously Bioware sold out.

And don't forget whips.

[MrGone]

Murmillos wrote...

Walker White wrote...


What is true is that you get no inventory for loot. But loot makes no sense in a futuristic game. 3D printing is going to change everything; we are seeing that happen now, in present day. No one wants to buy your second hand crap, when they can print off a perfect copy on their home printer. Loot will not even be worth the fuel to carry it out on the shuttle. Scan the schematics of the unique devices, and be done with it.

Furthermore, we most certainly do not want what we had in ME1: a magical bag of holding that allowed Shepard to run full speed while carrying 150 suits of Krogan armor. And to swap our weapon mods in mid fire. That stuff needs to die, and be shot again if it tries to get back up.

Don't worry, we get you - we really do. ME1 had a very poorly thought out and implemented loot system of recent days. I mean, nobody wants to go back to ME1 loot system, but not having a loot system was just as a bad planned thought out idea.

As you've stated, we can do loot in ME3 in a futurist way that makes sense but doesn't bog down the system with a unrealistic "bag of holding". Look, ME2 had "upgrades" to the weapons systems - how is that much more unrealistic then ME1, other then we had to wait to buy it from stores instead of finding it on the body of an enemy?

ME has a perfect tool that bridges the that logic gap. The OMNI TOOL. There are better items, better armor set pieces for ourselves and squad mates and now in ME3 weapon mod pieces. We can find those better loot items, on mini-bosses, computers that we have to hack, crates, etc.etc. Then Shepard and squad use the Omnitool to scan the new item. Once you make it back to ship (or the rare instance the item you find is "brand-new" which you can just equip right there [As in some ME2 weapon instances...]) you can then equip those item to whom you desire needs it, unless its one of those automatic upgrades to your weapon or armor.

Did that just rock your world.. because it did mine.

I like this idea. Mostly though because I've wanted to see an omni-tool scan mode since the first game.

[Psearo]

IrishSpectre257 wrote...

I felt that the lack of a traditional inventory fit Mass Effect better. I have a fully stocked armory and research lab on my state-of-the-art ship. Why would Shepard be picking up and keeping equipment from dead mercs?

I can understand picking up and using weapons from a dead enemy. After all, there may be situations where it's necessary.

For any RPG of any sort, set in modern or future/sci-fi/sci-fantasy setting, it makes no sense to be carrying around loads of junk.
Weapon attachments, medical supplies, ammo, back up weapon, essential things that make sense, they're fine to be carrying around.

Carrying around 150 different weapons and weapon mods, biotic amps and omni-tools didn't make sense.
Traditional swords & sorcery fantasy RPGs, it's acceptable, even expected to have some sort of inventory system for carrying around extra swords/bows/shields etc, but Mass Effect wasn't a swords & sorcery fantasy game.
Mind you, there are certainly times I'd rather a more streamlined (refined, not butchered) inventory system for fantasy RPGs. By that, I mean carrying one sword (or two if your character's that kind of fighter), one dagger, sword & shield, and maybe a bow & quiver as well, but not in some sort of magical invisible back pack. Leave everything else at the camp that you can't carry/wear. Force some players to put some fore-thought  into things.

Carrying four versions of the same assault rifle along with dozens of other assorted weapons and mods.... That really stretched the ol' suspension of disbelief. We weren't running around with Mary Poppins' carpet bag.

So, Mass Effect 2 comes out, and aside from removing the silly idea of running around with an invisible carpet bag full of weapons, mods & tools, also gone was modifications to the stock weapons, replaced with upgrading them slowly when we found the upgrades for each weapon class.

Now, it looks like we're getting what we logically should have had from the beginning.
The weapons we are equipped with (or in the ship's inventory before a mission), and the capacity to modify them to our personal tastes. Hopefully we won't be getting Heavy Barrel I, II, III, IV etc again.

[Admoniter]

I can deal with ME2s loadout system, I'm not exactly fond of it but with the return of mods I can live with it, but I won't like it. That said I want to see armor partially return to the traditional system with the twist of specific pieces giving specific benefits. Also biotic amps/ omni tools making a return as an item one can equip on themselves or squadmates, preferably with the ability to mod them; the latter isn't a deal breaker the former is.

Modifié par Admoniter, 17 avril 2011 - 03:18 .

[lolwut666]

This won't get anywhere ever.

Some people just have old-fashioned ideas. You can't expect your gandmother to enjoy video games and the Internet as much as you do, just like you can't expect an RPG "purist" to get over things such as a lack of inventory.

If life has taught me something is that, once a person has made up her mind about something, there is little point in arguing; she'll just say anything that will defend her cause, even if it's a lost one.

Best to just leave them to their frustration and move on to something more productive.

[AlanC9]

sympathy4saren wrote...
We are in space...how many cool and creative things could there be to obtain and add additional layers to modification? Or to sell? Exploring a planet's surface you stumble across a secret gun that can only be found there, for its not anywhere else in the game. And it owns. Or you find a special ammo type that's hidden?

The only problem with this is that it's really, really, stupid. Why is a secret gun hidden on a planet's surface? Because RPGs traditionally do things that way and you like the way RPGs traditionally do things?

Edit: sure, you can come up with some b.s. reason to make it work. But at this point you've got the mechanics driving the game design.

 Or you find valuable items that are rare and can barter them for credits. And if they're common, or more common, work can get you rich in a hurry.

Rules in an RPG should be used to help the role-playing, not work against it. Or are you saying that Shepard's in it for the money?

@ lolwut: sure, it's futile. I show up for threads like this because I want to represent my views, not because I think there's any hope for the OP.

Modifié par AlanC9, 17 avril 2011 - 03:55 .

[AlanC9]

sympathy4saren wrote...
Interesting perspective. Except, of course, the fact that during a recent interview the co-founders claimed, specifically, that their main goal is to please the core fanbase that has been with them since their founding, and that they always keep their core fanbase as a priority.

Well...that's me. Sorry buddy.

The core fanbase is you? Funny. I thought it was me.

Is this the part where we whip out our join dates? And if you're really part of the core fanbase, why don't you have a BG-specific handle instead of an ME-specific one?

[Tested-Faythe]

lolwut666 wrote...

This won't get anywhere ever.

Some people just have old-fashioned ideas. You can't expect your gandmother to enjoy video games and the Internet as much as you do, just like you can't expect an RPG "purist" to get over things such as a lack of inventory.

If life has taught me something is that, once a person has made up her mind about something, there is little point in arguing; she'll just say anything that will defend her cause, even if it's a lost one.

Best to just leave them to their frustration and move on to something more productive.

word.

[MasterSamson88]

We have Mass Effect 2's load out system with weapon mods that change the overall look of your weapon. I say that's better than a cluttered inventory.

The only thing loot ever amounted to in ME1 was easy money and the occasional decent weapon or set of armor. Everything else got sold off, or turned into omni-gel when it inevitably filled up to capacity and had to be flushed.

[Urdnot Orrad]

Magragoc wrote...

ME2 has an inventory, and it's miles better than the worthless pile of trash it was in ME1.  Does anyone remember their favorite weapons from the first Mass Effect?  Neither do I, because they were all the same.  Whereas in ME2, we have an array of guns whose differences are immediately noticeable.  Every gun (with the exception of the Mantis / Widow)  feels completely different, and excels in different dituations.  If you'd rather go back to incremental upgrades, and every assault rifle being exactly the same barring color and a few percentage points difference, you'd have more fun playing a spreadsheet.

In fact, I'd say that an inventory never had a place in Mass Effect at all, and was shoe-horned in just because "RPGs need lewt".  You're a Spectre, an elite agent of the galactic government ...but you have to poke through crates for equipment?  What sense does that make?  How does that improve your "immersion"?  By rights, we should have had X-level gear from level one.

This isn't a JRPG.  We aren't playing a plucky preteen living hand-to-mouth in a fantasy version of medieval Europe.  We're being bankrolled by some of the richest, most well-supplied agencies that have ever existed.  It's insulting to be expected to rifle through the pockets of dead Mercs for pocket change, let alone for better gear than what we have.

Just...no.

^This

But, I DO remember my favorite weapon: The HMWA Master Assault Rifle, X-level. Why? It was the strongest AR in the game. Plus, it just looked awesome with the black color scheme.

[commandoclone87]

First a question to RPG purists. What makes an inventory so damned essential to playing the "Role" of an intergalatic super-commando? If you want realism or to really step into the role, then your inventory is going to be your armour, the guns you can carry (even Shepard can't really carry more than a few guns at a time) and considering the weight of a piece of armour and the time it would take to change clothes while on a hostile planet, you can't expect Shepard to double as a pack mule.

People said they wanted more realism with Mass Effect 2 and guess what? Bioware listened and gave us what can be considered one of the most realistic inventories in modern RPGS.

If you want an inventory as extensive as ME1, it should only be available at select terminals on "Populated" worlds, at the Mako/Hammerhead/Shuttle or on the Normandy to retain the realism that you so desire.

That said, the preview of the Gameinformer article mentioned that you will have swappable options for things like barrels and sights for Shepard and his squad. As for armour, if you want realism, you can't have an inventory with 20 different armour kits and expect to be able to swap on the fly.

[atheelogos]

If this is true then I'm glad they went this way. Holding 150 items is.... unrealistic.

[Savber100]

sympathy4saren wrote...

Savber100 wrote...

Guys... saren4sympathy... understand this simple concept

BIOWARE IS NOT MAKING A PURE RPG!

Mass Effect is a hybrid of a shooter and a RPG. We call it a RPG because of the choice and consequences of a player's choice in the game where the player plays a role in deciding the fate of the galaxy and not because we can decide whether have a cybernetic backpack to place your manly pink armor.
Bioware is trying something new by combining genres. Remember that Bioware's main goal has ALWAYS been to create GOOD STORIES combined with an interactive experience which does not always need to be a RPG. If you don't like Bioware's direction, then don't buy Bioware products. But don't treat Bioware like some **** who is entitled to serve a single audience forever and then call them a panderer to the so-called " stupid shooter crowd"

Interesting perspective. Except, of course, the fact that during a recent interview the co-founders claimed, specifically, that their main goal is to please the core fanbase that has been with them since their founding, and that they always keep their core fanbase as a priority.

Well...that's me. Sorry buddy.

It's not just mass effect, but go stroll over to the Dragon Age forum. Much resentment and displeasure at the newbies.

To me... this was Bioware's greatest mistake. They should have kept DA franchise as the series dedicated to the hardcore RPG fans while taking ME to appeal to the more casual RPGer. That way, they have a hold on both fan bases. But after DAII, they kinda just made Dragon Age a poor man Mass Effect. <_<

[CubbieBlue66]

The shotguns of ME2 were a lesson in why there is no need for a big inventory system. Each one was unique and suited to a different purpose or playstyle, and were balanced quite well. It made a difference to sit there and debate the relative merits of them. The eviscerator still just feels right for my vanguard while the claymore feels better on my soldier and my engineer uses the geth shotgun.

It was a masterpiece, really. There wasn't a wrong, answer... just a preference. I hope to see more of this kind of decision making from the new weapon customization feature, as well as the weapons and armor again. I do really want that helmet toggle though... I can't bring myself to use anything other than the sentry visor just because that's the least intrusive.

[Urdnot Orrad]

CubbieBlue66 wrote...

The shotguns of ME2 were a lesson in why there is no need for a big inventory system. Each one was unique and suited to a different purpose or playstyle, and were balanced quite well. It made a difference to sit there and debate the relative merits of them. The eviscerator still just feels right for my vanguard while the claymore feels better on my soldier and my engineer uses the geth shotgun.

It was a masterpiece, really. There wasn't a wrong, answer... just a preference. I hope to see more of this kind of decision making from the new weapon customization feature, as well as the weapons and armor again. I do really want that helmet toggle though... I can't bring myself to use anything other than the sentry visor just because that's the least intrusive.

What about the N7 Visor? It can play music on-request!

Seriously, wouldn't that be awesome? I used to have hundreds of songs downloaded onto my old 360, and when playing ME or ME2, I'd play them. Good times, good times. It'd be cool if there were some sort of in-universe way to do it; maybe a futuristic interface that's purely aesthetic. Though I do agree, the lack of helmet toggle overall just... sucked.

Modifié par Urdnot Orrad, 17 avril 2011 - 04:34 .

[lolwut666]

Urdnot Orrad wrote...

CubbieBlue66 wrote...

The shotguns of ME2 were a lesson in why there is no need for a big inventory system. Each one was unique and suited to a different purpose or playstyle, and were balanced quite well. It made a difference to sit there and debate the relative merits of them. The eviscerator still just feels right for my vanguard while the claymore feels better on my soldier and my engineer uses the geth shotgun.

It was a masterpiece, really. There wasn't a wrong, answer... just a preference. I hope to see more of this kind of decision making from the new weapon customization feature, as well as the weapons and armor again. I do really want that helmet toggle though... I can't bring myself to use anything other than the sentry visor just because that's the least intrusive.

What about the N7 Visor? It can play music on-request!

Seriously, wouldn't that be awesome? I used to have hundreds of songs downloaded onto my old 360, and when playing ME or ME2, I'd play them. Good times, good times. It'd be cool if there were some sort of in-universe way to do it; maybe a futuristic interface that's purely aesthetic. Though I do agree, the lack of helmet toggle overall just... sucked.

Yeah. Helmet toggle is a must.

Someone needs to spam BioWare's mailbox demanding the return of helmet toggle.

About the music playing visor, I thought it was kinda funny and awsome how it says on Garrus's SB dossier that he listens to music on his visor DURING FIGHTS. You'd think a soldier would like to have all his senses free and sharp while under fire, but Garrus is so badass that he can listen to music while scoppin' and droppin'.

Modifié par lolwut666, 17 avril 2011 - 04:38 .

[Urdnot Orrad]

lolwut666 wrote...

Urdnot Orrad wrote...

CubbieBlue66 wrote...

The shotguns of ME2 were a lesson in why there is no need for a big inventory system. Each one was unique and suited to a different purpose or playstyle, and were balanced quite well. It made a difference to sit there and debate the relative merits of them. The eviscerator still just feels right for my vanguard while the claymore feels better on my soldier and my engineer uses the geth shotgun.

It was a masterpiece, really. There wasn't a wrong, answer... just a preference. I hope to see more of this kind of decision making from the new weapon customization feature, as well as the weapons and armor again. I do really want that helmet toggle though... I can't bring myself to use anything other than the sentry visor just because that's the least intrusive.

What about the N7 Visor? It can play music on-request!

Seriously, wouldn't that be awesome? I used to have hundreds of songs downloaded onto my old 360, and when playing ME or ME2, I'd play them. Good times, good times. It'd be cool if there were some sort of in-universe way to do it; maybe a futuristic interface that's purely aesthetic. Though I do agree, the lack of helmet toggle overall just... sucked.

Yeah. Helmet toggle is a must.

Someone needs to spam BioWare's mailbox demanding the return of helmet toggle.

About the music playing visor, I thought it was kinda funny and awsome how it says on Garrus's SB dossier that he listens to music on his visor DURING FIGHTS. You'd think a soldier would like to have all his senses free and sharp while under fire, but Garrus is so badass that he can listen to music while scoppin' and droppin'.

I actually always imagined that if I were some badass space marine with an uplink like that, I'd be blaring stuff from Disturbed, Metallica, Iron Maiden, Van Canto (if you haven't heard of VC, check 'em out on Youtube), AC/DC... you get the idea.

[SPARTAN-860]

You'd rather have to omni gel everything? No thanks.