436 réponses à ce sujet

[Mad-Max90]

^ the world as we knew it, has been destroyed, they should never go over 9000 9000s

[Rockpopple]

 Well, we had a good run. Time to give the crab people their turn.

[The Angry One]

cljqnsnyc wrote...

True. Since that hasn't exactly worked out the way they had wished, what now?

I don't even understand the logic behind this.
Fallout 3/FNV have much more of a shot at grabbing the CoD crowd being first person and technically shooters along with sandbox RPGs, and yet as far as I know neither have captured the FPS market completely.
This has "corporate meddling" written all over it.

I'm wondering if there's a back up plan in all of this. Morphing DAO into DA2 was obviously a highly risky proposition.

Denial is their plan, apparently.

Bioware's next move as far as DA is concerned will be interesting. I can't recall a time where they have ever found themselves in this position. A segmented fanbase, rising mistrust, etc. I guess we'll have to wait on this one. 

As far as their other big releases go, I doubt this situation will affect ME3 or The Old Republic. Separate teams who seem to be dotting I's and crossing T's. I think Bioware will have a very strong 3rd and 4th Quarter, more than enough to make up for whatever DA2 didn't deliver saleswise.

The only thing at risk here is DA3, really. I'm sure it'll be developed, but I worry that instead of learning lessons they'll continue to insist they need to appeal to non-RPG fans and drive DA3 into total mediocrity.

Modifié par The Angry One, 17 avril 2011 - 05:06 .

[erynnar]

TRfore wrote...

RE quotes from Laidaw:
Mike Laidlaw: I've certainly seen a fair amount of feedback that says, "I couldn't play Origins, I thought it was too slow, the story was too plodding, too typical, and Dragon Age II is awesome by comparison!"
Context of quote:
Question was asked:
Eurogamer: Imported saves don't appear to do much in Dragon Age 2. Will they be beefed up for Dragon Age 3?
Mike Laidlaw: A defence of Dragon Age II
http://www.eurogamer....e-ii-interview

What did Laidlaw mean?  What I'm getting from his answer is 999,990 people liked DAO but 10 people didnt like it because "I couldn't play Origins, I thought it was too slow, the story was too plodding, too typical, and Dragon Age II is awesome by comparison!," then I will change what the 999,990 people liked about the game into something 10 people would like.

OP wants Laidlaw/Bioware to do an apology similar to the FF14's (The MMO)  lead designer's apology to the FF MMO fans.  OP wants Laidlaw to say DA3 will be similar to DAO rather than DA2.  OP wants Laidlaw to address  DA2's shortcomings.

Current Metacritic player's review score of DA2 is 4.3/10.  I consider that a fail but this is what Laidlaw said:
I am. What we're seeing is a pretty wide range; I've seen perfects, I've seen less than perfects.

Above was in response to this question:
Eurogamer: Are you happy with the reviews of Dragon Age II?

As an apology Bioware should make all future DA2 DLCs free.

Mike Laidlaw: I've certainly seen a fair amount of feedback that
says, "I couldn't play Origins, I thought it was too slow, the story was
too plodding, too typical, and Dragon Age II is awesome by comparison!"



Does that mean the "fair amount" of people who can't finish DA2 or even do another replay because of reused dungeons, grind quests, MMORPG type bosses, the lack of even the illusion of choice, the lack of impact on the world by our PCs, the endless waves of identical bad guys and the mind numbingly tedious natures of battles, the story with plot holes so big I could drive a convoy of eighteen wheelers through it (being a mage and doing magic right in front of the Templars off the boat from Ferelden comest to mind), the "surpise" comments by our PCs with the stupid convo wheel, the cheesy cameos by the DAO people (many of whom got hit by the ugly stick and had the ugly tree fall on them) the running from arrow to arrow (because, Maker forbid we use our brains), the parachuting of enemies from ceilings in rooms and roofs on buildings in full metal armor no less, the junk crap in our bags which pull in two coppers, having to choose to buy real armor in the beginning or save our gold (despite being rich and owning part in a mine) so we can buy it later, the beating over the head of the <spoiler> vs <spoiler> beng ramped up to choose sides and having to kill two bosses MMORPG style anyways and he will change again for us? Guess not. I wish BioWare would give him JE2 and let someone who worked on DAO and who loved it (and I hope there are still some at BioWare)  will be put in charge of the DA franchise.  

[erynnar]

The Angry One wrote...

cljqnsnyc wrote...

True. Since that hasn't exactly worked out the way they had wished, what now?

I don't even understand the logic behind this.
Fallout 3/FNV have much more of a shot at grabbing the CoD crowd being first person and technically shooters along with sandbox RPGs, and yet as far as I know neither have captured the FPS market completely.
This has "corporate meddling" written all over it.

I'm wondering if there's a back up plan in all of this. Morphing DAO into DA2 was obviously a highly risky proposition.

Denial is their plan, apparently.

Bioware's next move as far as DA is concerned will be interesting. I can't recall a time where they have ever found themselves in this position. A segmented fanbase, rising mistrust, etc. I guess we'll have to wait on this one. 

As far as their other big releases go, I doubt this situation will affect ME3 or The Old Republic. Separate teams who seem to be dotting I's and crossing T's. I think Bioware will have a very strong 3rd and 4th Quarter, more than enough to make up for whatever DA2 didn't deliver saleswise.

The only thing at risk here is DA3, really. I'm sure it'll be developed, but I worry that instead of learning lessons they'll continue to insist they need to appeal to non-RPG fans and drive DA3 into total mediocrity.

As DA2 is only splendid in its medocrity at the moment.  Just think how much more mediocre it could get...oh excuse me, um, more "streamlined." Yes, that's what I meant.

[Rockpopple]

Epic rant is epic. Material's a bit stale tho. You could surprise us once in a while with some not-as-yet-before-mentioned-aspect of the game you truly, truly despise. No bowstrings on the bows, perhaps? The inexcusable lack of pies? Come on, surprise us!

[erynnar]

Rockpopple wrote...

Epic rant is epic. Material's a bit stale tho. You could surprise us once in a while with some not-as-yet-before-mentioned-aspect of the game you truly, truly despise. No bowstrings on the bows, perhaps? The inexcusable lack of pies? Come on, surprise us!

The cake was not a lie?

edited because I forgot to say ... red velvet cake with cream cheese icing...yum.

Modifié par erynnar, 17 avril 2011 - 05:12 .

[Mad-Max90]

To erynnar, word

[Xeranx]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Xeranx wrote...

I'm honestly disgusted by people clamoring about how this is the op's opinion. He/she made the statement. By virtue of there not being quotes it is subjective and I'm sure the op knows that. Even if it were factual you are supposed to automatically assume it's subjective until the op produces anything concrete.

I seriously read every post stating that something is someone's opinion (unless someone actually states their view is fact when it isn't) as though that individual just learned the difference between fact and opinion. Grow up. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

He wasn't stating his opinion. He was stating the Fanbase's opinion. As part of the Fanbase, I'd love to know exactly how Laidlaw insulted us and what names he's been calling me. I think thats fair.

But as far as growing up goes, I wasn't the one demanding someone be fired over a percieved insult in a video game.

If the OP had said that Bioware had complimented its fans with DAII I feel I can hazard a guess that you wouldn't make it a point to state that it was the OP's opinion.  In this scenario he/she wouldn't be specificying any one individual and you might be inclined to come to their defense if someone were to come at them the same way you and others have (and yes I my feelings on the "that's your opinion" goes both ways).  He/she could be talking about a small section of the fanbase that they are familiar with or the fanbase at large.  Point is you don't know what they have in mind when they make that statement.  You have to assume it's opinion for the mere fact that it's a statement made by an individual who is fallible.  

To point out that an opinion is an opinion is redundant to me and comes across as though you're putting yourself (generally speaking) above the person making the statement simply because you feel you can.  It looks petty to me and I dislike it as a result.  That's why I said "grow up".  Again, this isn't directed at just you or anyone else who is against the topic at hand, it (also) definitely goes for those who would be for the topic.  I feel we can avoid, completely, all the inane arguments about opinions and facts if we just approached statements on a message board like we used to: as though they were opinions until supported by documentation or what-have-you.

So if the OP says Bioware insulted the fans then ideally you would say something along the lines of, "I disagree because I found bits of it enjoyable" and/or just discuss the points brought up.  All over the boards I'm looking at people trying to refute instead of discuss.  I didn't know competition got this bad that we seek to utterly destroy someone rather than have them understand that you see things differently.  My gosh that sounds so PC, but it looks like what we used to do before we got so PC.

Anyway, I'm going to hit the hay.  This post may have gotten away from me and I'll have to look at it in the morning with fresh eyes so as to make any apologies if need be.  In case I have to however I apologize if I came across as harsh as that wasn't my intention and I hope everything made sense.

[Mad-Max90]

And to whoever was mad at erynnar, if he/she states good reasons at to why the hate the game no matter how many others have posted the same things, the point is still valid, you should try to respect others opinions instead of being a ****** about it

[Rockpopple]

I have no problem with erynnar. I happen to disagree with almost every point erynnar made against the game - I happen to think it was almost all hilarious hyperbole, but I have nothing against erynnar-the-poster, and I think they know that.

And if they don't: I have no problems with you erynnar.

I believe people can disagree without being disagreeable. I also believe people can be snarky without being enemies.

[erynnar]

Mad-Max90 wrote...

And to whoever was mad at erynnar, if he/she states good reasons at to why the hate the game no matter how many others have posted the same things, the point is still valid, you should try to respect others opinions instead of being a ****** about it

Aw, thanks, love. But Rockpopple is a good guy/girl (can't tell on the forums really sorry sweetie)? Honest, Rockpopple has my respect, as one of the leveler heads on the forum.

Rockpopple wrote...

Epic rant is epic. Material's a bit
stale tho. You could surprise us once in a while with some
not-as-yet-before-mentioned-aspect of the game you truly, truly despise. No bowstrings on the bows, perhaps? The inexcusable lack of pies? Come on, surprise us!

Rock, darlin' I have never talked about the game economy in any of my posts before.  That is new, I am totally sad you didn't catch that.   Not really sweetie, but it is a new thing I found that I need to put on the feedback forum and not here (sorry I blame a lack of sleep and guests in my house, I am a bit punchy, okay punchier).

[erynnar]

Rockpopple wrote...

I have no problem with erynnar. I happen to disagree with almost every point erynnar made against the game - I happen to think it was almost all hilarious hyperbole, but I have nothing against erynnar-the-poster, and I think they know that.

And if they don't: I have no problems with you erynnar.

I believe people can disagree without being disagreeable. I also believe people can be snarky without being enemies.

We can, and do! No worries Rock, I think you, um well...rock? Too puny? Thanks sweetie, I have no problems with you either.<3


LOL! As to hyperbole...the enemies jumping from mid air in a ceiling made of stone with no beams to hide on...just as bad as DAO where I am cleaning up bodies which I subsequently throw down a well in front of two templars (granted one is lyrium addled) in an crowded chantry courtyard while Alistair and Wynne say nothing (Morrigan wouldn't have cared) and I keep thinking..."my how awkward, and I am going to make everyone who uses the chantry well sick and die from decomp in the water). Yeah, about that bad. But in DAO that only happned three times for three bodies. The magically appearing bad guys happened a lot more in DA2.

Modifié par erynnar, 17 avril 2011 - 05:35 .

[Rockpopple]

Erynnar - you're absolutely right. It's no excuse, but my eyes tend to glaze over big blocks of text, so I did miss it.

And you know what - I agree. I disliked that part of the game too. I always rolled my eyes when I killed 3 waves of deadly enemies hell-bent on my death and destruction only to find about enough coin to maybe afford the ugliest peg-legged prostitute in Darktown if I paid her on credit. It was kinda stupid.

Especially considering how some of the truly useful items that are available later in the game cost about a gazillion gold.

So yeah, I'll give you that one.

Modifié par Rockpopple, 17 avril 2011 - 05:29 .

[brightblueink]

The Metacritic score might be 4.3 with players, but on Gamespot and Gamefaqs it's in the 7.7 range or so. Laidlaw's comment that there's been mixed reviews seems pretty accurate to me, both in the professional critic realm and the fan realm.

[erynnar]

Rockpopple wrote...

Erynnar - you're absolutely right. It's no excuse, but my eyes tend to glaze over big blocks of text, so I did miss it.

And you know what - I agree. I disliked that part of the game too. I always rolled my eyes when I killed 3 waves of deadly enemies hell-bent on my death and destruction only to find about enough coin to maybe afford the ugliest peg-legged prostitute in Darktown if I paid her on credit. It was kinda stupid.

Especially considering how some of the truly useful items that are available later in the game cost about a gazillion gold.

So yeah, I'll give you that one.

I know! I kept thinking...shouldn't I have more money from the loot in the Deep Roads and I own part of a mine...where's my gold?  Damn Varric and that Orlesian dude are cheating me!  But, yeah, the good stuff costing so much money, eep!

[Cutlass Jack]

Xeranx wrote...

So if the OP says Bioware insulted the fans then ideally you would say something along the lines of, "I disagree because I found bits of it enjoyable" and/or just discuss the points brought up.  All over the boards I'm looking at people trying to refute instead of discuss.  I didn't know competition got this bad that we seek to utterly destroy someone rather than have them understand that you see things differently.  My gosh that sounds so PC, but it looks like what we used to do before we got so PC.

To say I disagree I'd first need to know what the percieved insult was. Which is what I asked of him. Who knows, maybe if he took to time to present his case I'd agree with him. But due to lack of such I suspect he really wasn't seeking a debate on the topic. Its hard to discuss points when none are presented.

As far as seeking to utterly destroy someone, again let me point out I'm not the one suggesting a real person lose their job over DA2 like the OP is. Which is clearly much more serious than disagreeing with relatively anonymous people on a forum, yes?

Anyway get some sleep. No apologies required.

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 17 avril 2011 - 05:43 .

[Paraxial]

I'm here to get my acting on, I hear we are acting 'hurt' in this scene?

What is my motivation? Did some big mean game designer say some mean things? Oh, well good then.

[erynnar]

brightblueink wrote...

The Metacritic score might be 4.3 with players, but on Gamespot and Gamefaqs it's in the 7.7 range or so. Laidlaw's comment that there's been mixed reviews seems pretty accurate to me, both in the professional critic realm and the fan realm.

Well my problem with Gamespot is that only those who are paid subscribers are allowed to review. I am not paying money just to be able to review. So I don't kmow how much weight I put in their numbers, since a  lot of people aren't going to be allowed to review when they won't subscribe.  And by weight, I mean their score could be even higher, or lower if a portion of people who would review can't and won't. 

Metacritic only asks you to sign up, and does not ask you to pay to review. And do they have the same thing that metacritic had, BioWare employees giving the game 10 out of 10, like it was discovered on Meta? Again, BioWare has no rules against employees doing that. I personally find it sneaky and dirt unless you tell people up front that you work for the company. After all employees are people, and they have their opinions.

[MyKingdomCold]

Xeranx wrote...

If the OP had said that Bioware had complimented its fans with DAII I feel I can hazard a guess that you wouldn't make it a point to state that it was the OP's opinion.  In this scenario he/she wouldn't be specificying any one individual and you might be inclined to come to their defense if someone were to come at them the same way you and others have (and yes I my feelings on the "that's your opinion" goes both ways).  He/she could be talking about a small section of the fanbase that they are familiar with or the fanbase at large.  Point is you don't know what they have in mind when they make that statement.  You have to assume it's opinion for the mere fact that it's a statement made by an individual who is fallible.  

you're right if the OP or anyone made a positive comment about DA II some people would label them as fanboys

[erynnar]

MyKingdomCold wrote...

Xeranx wrote...

If the OP had said that Bioware had complimented its fans with DAII I feel I can hazard a guess that you wouldn't make it a point to state that it was the OP's opinion.  In this scenario he/she wouldn't be specificying any one individual and you might be inclined to come to their defense if someone were to come at them the same way you and others have (and yes I my feelings on the "that's your opinion" goes both ways).  He/she could be talking about a small section of the fanbase that they are familiar with or the fanbase at large.  Point is you don't know what they have in mind when they make that statement.  You have to assume it's opinion for the mere fact that it's a statement made by an individual who is fallible.  

you're right if the OP or anyone made a positive comment about DA II some people would label them as fanboys

Ugh, and I hate that attitude from both sides...fanboys or haters! Double UGH!

[Mad-Max90]

It's a lost cause campaigning for or against the game, but the fear of laidlaw's new campaign against the traditional rpg is rational, the man said he want's RPGs to break awayfrom that then on the other hand if you take away so much rpg elements from the game your left with this new genre which isn't actually an rpg per say, it's become something entirely different, while some people are liking this new genre those who prefer the traditional rpg are upset because RPGs are becoming a dying breed, with the exception of a few games here and there. Most fans of origins didn't have a problem with the game even if it had flaws such as antiquated graphics or whatever because of the heavy immersion into the story and what you got to do to leave your mark in thedas history, this new genre or new "rpg" is more of a rpg lite, yes you can customize a character and pick you outfit and weapons but the choices are what separates origins and it's sequel, it seemed like your choices mattered to thedas more in origins, and while there were "choices" you could make in DA2, they didn't feel nearly as impactful or meaningful when no matter what you choose to do everything later plays out the same whether you helped a certain Mage escape or not, they didn't care if you tried to help them, they come back later to bite you in the ass, and it almost feels like even if you could kill them earlier on bioware would just paste random Mage#357 instead to do the same event. What I'm getting, sorry for ranting by the way, is that fans of the old RPGs are being called out by the developers and fans of DA2, while some of those who didn't like the new game are being labeled together as biobashers, which for me is not true, I already stated that Hudson the lead on Mass Effect is my industry hero/savior, most of us, I'm not speaking for everyone when I say this love bioware and their traditional wrpg style, we just don't like this new hybrid genre, that is our preference. To the lovers of the game I did not mean to lump all of you together either because we all have been lumped into the extremes of both groups in this "bioware uncivil war", I can however see why some people like the game there is less freedom given than in origins but noone really feels like they might have made a bad choice in the game because of the "fact"(just using this word, ist up for interpretation) that no matter what you do in the main story quests, the outcome is the same, at the end of the day you can't pick a side you just kill half the city between you and your companions, let me reiterate I'm not trying to get people riled up, this is in my opinion what is going on in these forums as of late

[Mad-Max90]

Sorry for the wall of text, it's hard using my phone to post on these threads but I am away from my laptop so please bare with me.

[doloreg]

@OP
We could give you gold, and you'd complain that it was heavy.
Plus, this is the 43536352346th thread whining about the same thing. And i don't think that everyone who points out mistakes and "hates" are whiners, but you are.

[Persephone]

erynnar wrote...

brightblueink wrote...

The Metacritic score might be 4.3 with players, but on Gamespot and Gamefaqs it's in the 7.7 range or so. Laidlaw's comment that there's been mixed reviews seems pretty accurate to me, both in the professional critic realm and the fan realm.

Well my problem with Gamespot is that only those who are paid subscribers are allowed to review. I

Good thing, that. It keeps the Metacritic spamming and skewing at a minimum. What has happened at Metacritic is an utter disgrace. (And I'm not just talking about the obvious hate campaign that MANY people admitted to. Proudly, in fact)

Modifié par Persephone, 17 avril 2011 - 08:18 .