436 réponses à ce sujet

[Warheadz]

I think he/she meant it as what Brent wanted DA2 to be, as he clearly stated that DA2 took the direction he didn't want for it. A hypothetical situation of sort.

[Night Prowler76]

Holy, look at all you cute BioSheep dismissing the OP, even tho Mike has basically said most of the those things. You guys are amusing tho, I honestly dont think Ive seen this many lost brain cells in one post before, you guys just keep doing what you do, just make sure you wipe the goo off of your chins afterward.

[MorrigansLove]

Night Prowler76 wrote...

Holy, look at all you cute BioSheep dismissing the OP, even tho Mike has basically said most of the those things. You guys are amusing tho, I honestly dont think Ive seen this many lost brain cells in one post before, you guys just keep doing what you do, just make sure you wipe the goo off of your chins afterward.

HAHA! you win the internet!

/endthread

[erynnar]

errant_knight wrote...

Argumentation over the OP aside, my God, I want to play the sequel that Brent Knowles envisioned so very much... Gah! I'd walk across hot coals for that.

So would I, I wish he could share his ideas on DA the sequel (but I know he can't).  I would crawl on my belly over hot coals and broken glass for Knowles's DA2.

[Ariella]

Night Prowler76 wrote...

Holy, look at all you cute BioSheep dismissing the OP, even tho Mike has basically said most of the those things. You guys are amusing tho, I honestly dont think Ive seen this many lost brain cells in one post before, you guys just keep doing what you do, just make sure you wipe the goo off of your chins afterward.

Care to PROVE Mike Laqidlaw has said most of these things? Rather than insulting people you don't even know from behind a computer screen, why don't you screw up that internet courage of yours and prove your case with facts?

[Persephone]

Night Prowler76 wrote...

Holy, look at all you cute BioSheep dismissing the OP, even tho Mike has basically said most of the those things. You guys are amusing tho, I honestly dont think Ive seen this many lost brain cells in one post before, you guys just keep doing what you do, just make sure you wipe the goo off of your chins afterward.

Oh look....more namecalling and insults. Why am I not surprised? 

Those who need to stoop to personal insults to get their point across only discredit themselves as well as making their supposed point seem irrelevant. It's posts and behavior like yours (Rude, self absorbed, condescending and as classy as a bully) that give the so called "fanbase" a bad name. And you know what's deliciously sweet? If someone who loves this game acted like you did.......no, not even that, hell, they get shot down, insulted and belittled for the cardinal sin of posting a positive review.

Hypocrisy abounds.

[DarthSliver]

Night Prowler76 wrote...

Holy, look at all you cute BioSheep dismissing the OP, even tho Mike has basically said most of the those things. You guys are amusing tho, I honestly dont think Ive seen this many lost brain cells in one post before, you guys just keep doing what you do, just make sure you wipe the goo off of your chins afterward.

What i am seeing is the OP only has a opinion. If Mike has said suchs things the OP needs to prove it or its just empty words of someone whining. Someone complaining that DA2 didnt turn out to be the game he wanted. As far as i am concern its an outright attack on Mike Laidlaw done by the OP. 

Now I am not saying I loved DA2, but I did enjoy the game to a certain point. It has its downsides and its upsides but DA2 does have mostly downsides. I for sure cant enjoy it 3 times straight like i could ME2 because of all the reused maps in the game. But its quite obvious at this point that the OP is just doing an Atk Mike Laidlaw thread and i dont approve of such threads. People like OP just give a good reason why Devs dont look at the forums where their fanbase is. 

[toggled]

It's not just Mr. Laidlaw. Groupthink has taken over at Bioware HQ and this has lead them to believe that the game is awesome and only a very small minority of the population thinks the game is anything less than awesome.

Yes, Mr. Laidlaw should be fired. But it won't happen. Bioware will continue on its course until it finally falls off a cliff and goes splat. Then Mr. Laidlaw will stand up, wipe himself off, say "boy that was awesome!" and get a job as VP of another company.

[Persephone]

toggled wrote...

It's not just Mr. Laidlaw. Groupthink has taken over at Bioware HQ and this has lead them to believe that the game is awesome and only a very small minority of the population thinks the game is anything less than awesome.

Yes, Mr. Laidlaw should be fired. But it won't happen. Bioware will continue on its course until it finally falls off a cliff and goes splat. Then Mr. Laidlaw will stand up, wipe himself off, say "boy that was awesome!" and get a job as VP of another company.

Reaaaaaaaaaally? Are you a fly on their wall during meetings?

When hatred goes as far as wanting someone to lose their job because you didn't get what you wanted, it's going bloody too far.

[Everwarden]

toggled wrote...

It's not just Mr. Laidlaw. Groupthink has taken over at Bioware HQ and this has lead them to believe that the game is awesome and only a very small minority of the population thinks the game is anything less than awesome.

Yes, Mr. Laidlaw should be fired. But it won't happen. Bioware will continue on its course until it finally falls off a cliff and goes splat. Then Mr. Laidlaw will stand up, wipe himself off, say "boy that was awesome!" and get a job as VP of another company.

I see every part except for the bolded happening. A track record of lead designing flops won't look great on a resume. 

[toggled]

Persephone wrote...

toggled wrote...

It's not just Mr. Laidlaw. Groupthink has taken over at Bioware HQ and this has lead them to believe that the game is awesome and only a very small minority of the population thinks the game is anything less than awesome.

Yes, Mr. Laidlaw should be fired. But it won't happen. Bioware will continue on its course until it finally falls off a cliff and goes splat. Then Mr. Laidlaw will stand up, wipe himself off, say "boy that was awesome!" and get a job as VP of another company.

Reaaaaaaaaaally? Are you a fly on their wall during meetings?

When hatred goes as far as wanting someone to lose their job because you didn't get what you wanted, it's going bloody too far.

There's no hated here. The part of me that thinks logically believes DA2 is an inferior, rushed product. Someone is responsible, and I believe that person is probably Mr. Laidlaw. Therefore, he should be fired. That part of me that is a little less logical and a little more street smart knows that most business executives are short-term thinkers; they look at the sales and that's it. The sales for DA2 are impressive on the back of pre-orders alone. The execs don't know that a large percentage of their fanbase has been alienated by the game, so Mr. Laidlaw will be rewarded for his "awesome" game and will be allowed to continue to wreak havoc on Bioware titles until Bioware goes under or becomes yet another inconsequential game designer.

[Addai]

Night Prowler76 wrote...

Holy, look at all you cute BioSheep dismissing the OP, even tho Mike has basically said most of the those things. You guys are amusing tho, I honestly dont think Ive seen this many lost brain cells in one post before, you guys just keep doing what you do, just make sure you wipe the goo off of your chins afterward.

I'm sure the critics are thrilled to have such articulate, polite people jumping to defend them from the "Biosheep."  Well done.

It's the same old rigamarole as in the pre-game marketing, only now it's on the back end with the damage control.  Those of us who like Origins are going to get slapped in an effort to make DA2 seem a worthy successor.  Been there, done that.  Laidlaw is just doing his job.

[Night Prowler76]

Persephone wrote...

Night Prowler76 wrote...

Holy, look at all you cute BioSheep dismissing the OP, even tho Mike has basically said most of the those things. You guys are amusing tho, I honestly dont think Ive seen this many lost brain cells in one post before, you guys just keep doing what you do, just make sure you wipe the goo off of your chins afterward.

Oh look....more namecalling and insults. Why am I not surprised? 

Those who need to stoop to personal insults to get their point across only discredit themselves as well as making their supposed point seem irrelevant. It's posts and behavior like yours (Rude, self absorbed, condescending and as classy as a bully) that give the so called "fanbase" a bad name. And you know what's deliciously sweet? If someone who loves this game acted like you did.......no, not even that, hell, they get shot down, insulted and belittled for the cardinal sin of posting a positive review.

Hypocrisy abounds.

xoxo

[Night Prowler76]

DarthSliver wrote...

Night Prowler76 wrote...

Holy, look at all you cute BioSheep dismissing the OP, even tho Mike has basically said most of the those things. You guys are amusing tho, I honestly dont think Ive seen this many lost brain cells in one post before, you guys just keep doing what you do, just make sure you wipe the goo off of your chins afterward.

What i am seeing is the OP only has a opinion. If Mike has said suchs things the OP needs to prove it or its just empty words of someone whining. Someone complaining that DA2 didnt turn out to be the game he wanted. As far as i am concern its an outright attack on Mike Laidlaw done by the OP. 

Now I am not saying I loved DA2, but I did enjoy the game to a certain point. It has its downsides and its upsides but DA2 does have mostly downsides. I for sure cant enjoy it 3 times straight like i could ME2 because of all the reused maps in the game. But its quite obvious at this point that the OP is just doing an Atk Mike Laidlaw thread and i dont approve of such threads. People like OP just give a good reason why Devs dont look at the forums where their fanbase is. 

Obviously some of his post was opinion, just like every other post on these forums, if you carefully read the interviews that Mike has done, you will see that he is very dismissive of anyone who has anything negative to say about  about DA2.

Such as this interview bit from Eurogamer where he dismisses the lower scores on Metacritic, implying that anyone giving the game a low score wanted DAO2, and not because they genuinely thought the game was sub-par, that is classic denial of what one has created, and it mirror's the people on this forum who seem to by no fault of their own, follow BioWare blindly like sheep, even when by critical standards, this is a sub par game by a company who is known for making highly rated games (by the same critics).

I may be harsh to some people on here, and the main reason is that if everyone keeps kissing the companies butt, then they will never make better games and they will dismiss criticism and just do what they want because apparently a large population of Bioware fans keep having lower and lower expectations.


Eurogamer:
I've seen scores as low as a 6/10 - what do you think when you read those?

Mike Laidlaw:
Well it's hard to know exactly what's going on with scores that
are really, really negative. One possible culprit could just be a change
backlash, i.e. this isn't Origins and I wanted Origins 2. There may be
some degree of what I would honestly say is emotional investment in the
Origins story, or in the way Origins was presented which is leading to a
stronger than average reaction of disappointment. That's
understandable, and if anything that really is a compliment to the work
on Origins. I'm not sure it's an entirely fair assessment to say all
games must be like the previous game. I think we would have seen just as
much negativity if we just, as I used to joke, stapled two Archdemons
together and called it a super blight. It boils down to a game that
challenges a fair amount of convention: it doesn't tell the usual
fantasy story or present the usual fantasy combat, and in doing so it
does run the risk of someone going, "Wow, this is just too different and
I cannot handle it."

Modifié par Night Prowler76, 17 avril 2011 - 08:11 .

[Persephone]

One can be critical of a game without stooping to rudeness and insults.

And one can be positive without kissing Bioware's hindquarters.

Constructive criticism is the key. The rest will be overlooked. And justly so.

[Night Prowler76]

Persephone wrote...

One can be critical of a game without stooping to rudeness and insults.

And one can be positive without kissing Bioware's hindquarters.

Constructive criticism is the key. The rest will be overlooked. And justly so.

Awww Im sorry Persephone, I will behave, I dont want to get bullied by you:wub:

[Persephone]

Night Prowler76 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

One can be critical of a game without stooping to rudeness and insults.

And one can be positive without kissing Bioware's hindquarters.

Constructive criticism is the key. The rest will be overlooked. And justly so.

Awww Im sorry Persephone, I will behave, I dont want to get bullied by you:wub:

I don't believe I'm bullying you.

Make light of it all you like.

But as someone who actually works in Sales and Marketing I can tell you this: Bashing and hate campaigning does not achieve the desired result of a better product the next time.

Constructive criticism stands a chance.

And you want to know the ONE reaction that will rattle us Sales and Marketing drones?

Apathy. Middle ratings that can mean anything or nothing.

[Ariella]

Night Prowler76 wrote...

DarthSliver wrote...

Night Prowler76 wrote...

Holy, look at all you cute BioSheep dismissing the OP, even tho Mike has basically said most of the those things. You guys are amusing tho, I honestly dont think Ive seen this many lost brain cells in one post before, you guys just keep doing what you do, just make sure you wipe the goo off of your chins afterward.

What i am seeing is the OP only has a opinion. If Mike has said suchs things the OP needs to prove it or its just empty words of someone whining. Someone complaining that DA2 didnt turn out to be the game he wanted. As far as i am concern its an outright attack on Mike Laidlaw done by the OP. 

Now I am not saying I loved DA2, but I did enjoy the game to a certain point. It has its downsides and its upsides but DA2 does have mostly downsides. I for sure cant enjoy it 3 times straight like i could ME2 because of all the reused maps in the game. But its quite obvious at this point that the OP is just doing an Atk Mike Laidlaw thread and i dont approve of such threads. People like OP just give a good reason why Devs dont look at the forums where their fanbase is. 

Obviously some of his post was opinion, just like every other post on these forums, if you carefully read the interviews that Mike has done, you will see that he is very dismissive of anyone who has anything negative to say about  about DA2.

Such as this interview bit from Eurogamer where he dismisses the lower scores on Metacritic, implying that anyone giving the game a low score wanted DAO2, and not because they genuinely thought the game was sub-par, that is classic denial of what one has created, and it mirror's the people on this forum who seem to by no fault of their own, follow BioWare blindly like sheep, even when by critical standards, this is a sub par game by a company who is known for making highly rated games (by the same critics).

I may be harsh to some people on here, and the main reason is that if everyone keeps kissing the companies butt, then they will never make better games and they will dismiss criticism and just do what they want because apparently a large population of Bioware fans keep having lower and lower expectations.


Eurogamer:
I've seen scores as low as a 6/10 - what do you think when you read those?

Mike Laidlaw:
Well it's hard to know exactly what's going on with scores that
are really, really negative. One possible culprit could just be a change
backlash, i.e. this isn't Origins and I wanted Origins 2. There may be
some degree of what I would honestly say is emotional investment in the
Origins story, or in the way Origins was presented which is leading to a
stronger than average reaction of disappointment. That's
understandable, and if anything that really is a compliment to the work
on Origins. I'm not sure it's an entirely fair assessment to say all
games must be like the previous game. I think we would have seen just as
much negativity if we just, as I used to joke, stapled two Archdemons
together and called it a super blight. It boils down to a game that
challenges a fair amount of convention: it doesn't tell the usual
fantasy story or present the usual fantasy combat, and in doing so it
does run the risk of someone going, "Wow, this is just too different and
I cannot handle it."

I don't see where he's dismissive at all of negative feedback. His comment is directed to the really really low scores that appeared on metacritic with little to no feedback at all just because there were fans who were so disappointed in the game not being DAO. If I may point out, he also says that the reaction is also a complement to
DAO itself, in that people are passionate enough about the game to react this negatively when presented with something so different from potential expectations.

I probably would have found different wording for the end of the quote had I been Mike, as it is a bit blunt, but his point is well taken. A lot of the arguments around here boil down to "this isn't DAO2", which is fair because it isn't Origins 2. More than a few people, however, turn their nose up just because of that fact alone, and seem to forget that Origns did have it share of flaws and critics, both fan and profesional. 

I'll end on this note by saying Bioware DID warn us all long before release day came that DA2 was going to be different than Origins, especially in the storytelling aspect. It something that should be taken into account every time one loads up the game.

[Everwarden]

Ariella wrote...
 His comment is directed to the really really low scores that appeared on metacritic with little to no feedback at all just because there were fans who were so disappointed in the game not being DAO.

That's the problem. He thinks (or claims to think) that the low scores are all because "It's different" and people just can't stand change. I don't hate DA2 because it isn't Origins, I hate DA2 because it isn't a very good game. 

[Seena]

Everwarden wrote...

Ariella wrote...
 His comment is directed to the really really low scores that appeared on metacritic with little to no feedback at all just because there were fans who were so disappointed in the game not being DAO.

That's the problem. He thinks (or claims to think) that the low scores are all because "It's different" and people just can't stand change. I don't hate DA2 because it isn't Origins, I hate DA2 because it isn't a very good game. 

Where does he say that the low scores are ALL because the game is different?

He doesn't.

[AtreiyaN7]

Night Prowler76 wrote...

DarthSliver wrote...

Night Prowler76 wrote...

Holy, look at all you cute BioSheep dismissing the OP, even tho Mike has basically said most of the those things. You guys are amusing tho, I honestly dont think Ive seen this many lost brain cells in one post before, you guys just keep doing what you do, just make sure you wipe the goo off of your chins afterward.

What i am seeing is the OP only has a opinion. If Mike has said suchs things the OP needs to prove it or its just empty words of someone whining. Someone complaining that DA2 didnt turn out to be the game he wanted. As far as i am concern its an outright attack on Mike Laidlaw done by the OP. 

Now I am not saying I loved DA2, but I did enjoy the game to a certain point. It has its downsides and its upsides but DA2 does have mostly downsides. I for sure cant enjoy it 3 times straight like i could ME2 because of all the reused maps in the game. But its quite obvious at this point that the OP is just doing an Atk Mike Laidlaw thread and i dont approve of such threads. People like OP just give a good reason why Devs dont look at the forums where their fanbase is. 

Obviously some of his post was opinion, just like every other post on these forums, if you carefully read the interviews that Mike has done, you will see that he is very dismissive of anyone who has anything negative to say about  about DA2.

Such as this interview bit from Eurogamer where he dismisses the lower scores on Metacritic, implying that anyone giving the game a low score wanted DAO2, and not because they genuinely thought the game was sub-par, that is classic denial of what one has created, and it mirror's the people on this forum who seem to by no fault of their own, follow BioWare blindly like sheep, even when by critical standards, this is a sub par game by a company who is known for making highly rated games (by the same critics).

I may be harsh to some people on here, and the main reason is that if everyone keeps kissing the companies butt, then they will never make better games and they will dismiss criticism and just do what they want because apparently a large population of Bioware fans keep having lower and lower expectations.


Eurogamer:
I've seen scores as low as a 6/10 - what do you think when you read those?

Mike Laidlaw:
Well it's hard to know exactly what's going on with scores that
are really, really negative. One possible culprit could just be a change
backlash, i.e. this isn't Origins and I wanted Origins 2. There may be
some degree of what I would honestly say is emotional investment in the
Origins story, or in the way Origins was presented which is leading to a
stronger than average reaction of disappointment. That's
understandable, and if anything that really is a compliment to the work
on Origins. I'm not sure it's an entirely fair assessment to say all
games must be like the previous game. I think we would have seen just as
much negativity if we just, as I used to joke, stapled two Archdemons
together and called it a super blight. It boils down to a game that
challenges a fair amount of convention: it doesn't tell the usual
fantasy story or present the usual fantasy combat, and in doing so it
does run the risk of someone going, "Wow, this is just too different and
I cannot handle it."

There is nothing dismissive in that interview/quote at all. It seems clear that he understands there are negative critcisms and is analyzing possible reasons for it. If one is somehow loopy enough to take offense at it, well, I guess that's their problem, not Laidlaw's.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 17 avril 2011 - 08:48 .

[Night Prowler76]

Persephone wrote...

Night Prowler76 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

One can be critical of a game without stooping to rudeness and insults.

And one can be positive without kissing Bioware's hindquarters.

Constructive criticism is the key. The rest will be overlooked. And justly so.

Awww Im sorry Persephone, I will behave, I dont want to get bullied by you:wub:

I don't believe I'm bullying you.

Make light of it all you like.

But as someone who actually works in Sales and Marketing I can tell you this: Bashing and hate campaigning does not achieve the desired result of a better product the next time.

Constructive criticism stands a chance.

And you want to know the ONE reaction that will rattle us Sales and Marketing drones?

Apathy. Middle ratings that can mean anything or nothing.

In an ideal world your theories would ring true, unfotunately for you, everyone on here and myself, our opinions wont change anything about DA2, the opinions and criticism's of DA2 were on here way before the game came out, they could have been fixed, but they were not, these forums dont represent sales figures for BioWare, they really dont care, we got told that the changes were great and embrace them blah blah, and anyone who voiced a concern got talked down to, insulted and were told to leave, (as I was one of those people).

Now a strange thing has happened, the BioSheep have diminished, the herd is much smaller now that the game came out, I guess they werent as strong in their convictions as they thought.

I dont dislike you or anyone on here,but being in sales and marketing you should know for instance, if I hire you and your firm to do a job to promote something for me, and the ads and commercials are not satisfactory you know what happens, I FIRE YOU, you dont get any more of my money, that is how the real world works, it seems you guys think that Mike should not be held accountable for what calibre of job he does.

[Blacklash93]

Kail Ashton wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

I hope Bioware understands that the least of DA2's problems lie in the faster combat and new dialogue system.

How bland and lifeless Kirkwall is. How few areas there are. The rehashed dungeons. Insta-spawning. Glitches. Those are what make DA2 no more than just mildly decent.

What does this have to do with the topic? oh right nothing, any exscuse to whine endlessly right?

Because the devs seem to categorize us into those who embrace change, or those who reject it. That's not true. Most of DA2's faults are universal and are not up to personal taste. I like the new dialogue system and the faster combat, but a lot of things pertaining to them were executed horribly.

A lifeless city is a problem when the entire game takes place in it. Dragon Age 2 is not DLC and even then the rehashed dungeons seriously took away from quality, just like now. And enemies visibly spawning out of thin air in the middle of the battlefield is nothing like in Origins save for rogues and spirits, but at least there it makes sense. And Origins had glitches too, but that doesn't make them any more excusable here.

It's people like you making excuses for Bioware that will make more likely that this decline in quality continues.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 17 avril 2011 - 08:55 .

[Night Prowler76]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

Night Prowler76 wrote...

DarthSliver wrote...

Night Prowler76 wrote...

Holy, look at all you cute BioSheep dismissing the OP, even tho Mike has basically said most of the those things. You guys are amusing tho, I honestly dont think Ive seen this many lost brain cells in one post before, you guys just keep doing what you do, just make sure you wipe the goo off of your chins afterward.

What i am seeing is the OP only has a opinion. If Mike has said suchs things the OP needs to prove it or its just empty words of someone whining. Someone complaining that DA2 didnt turn out to be the game he wanted. As far as i am concern its an outright attack on Mike Laidlaw done by the OP. 

Now I am not saying I loved DA2, but I did enjoy the game to a certain point. It has its downsides and its upsides but DA2 does have mostly downsides. I for sure cant enjoy it 3 times straight like i could ME2 because of all the reused maps in the game. But its quite obvious at this point that the OP is just doing an Atk Mike Laidlaw thread and i dont approve of such threads. People like OP just give a good reason why Devs dont look at the forums where their fanbase is. 

Obviously some of his post was opinion, just like every other post on these forums, if you carefully read the interviews that Mike has done, you will see that he is very dismissive of anyone who has anything negative to say about  about DA2.

Such as this interview bit from Eurogamer where he dismisses the lower scores on Metacritic, implying that anyone giving the game a low score wanted DAO2, and not because they genuinely thought the game was sub-par, that is classic denial of what one has created, and it mirror's the people on this forum who seem to by no fault of their own, follow BioWare blindly like sheep, even when by critical standards, this is a sub par game by a company who is known for making highly rated games (by the same critics).

I may be harsh to some people on here, and the main reason is that if everyone keeps kissing the companies butt, then they will never make better games and they will dismiss criticism and just do what they want because apparently a large population of Bioware fans keep having lower and lower expectations.


Eurogamer:
I've seen scores as low as a 6/10 - what do you think when you read those?

Mike Laidlaw:
Well it's hard to know exactly what's going on with scores that
are really, really negative. One possible culprit could just be a change
backlash, i.e. this isn't Origins and I wanted Origins 2. There may be
some degree of what I would honestly say is emotional investment in the
Origins story, or in the way Origins was presented which is leading to a
stronger than average reaction of disappointment. That's
understandable, and if anything that really is a compliment to the work
on Origins. I'm not sure it's an entirely fair assessment to say all
games must be like the previous game. I think we would have seen just as
much negativity if we just, as I used to joke, stapled two Archdemons
together and called it a super blight. It boils down to a game that
challenges a fair amount of convention: it doesn't tell the usual
fantasy story or present the usual fantasy combat, and in doing so it
does run the risk of someone going, "Wow, this is just too different and
I cannot handle it."

There is nothing dismissive in that interview/quote at all. It seems clear that he understands there are negative critcisms and is analyzing possible reasons for it. If one is somehow loopy enough to take offense at it, well, I guess that's their problem, not Laidlaw's.

Or maybe people are too dense to understand that he is deflecting criticism?Kind of  like he does in every interview.  Maybe you are not the person I should be talking to, I think you fall into that category.