436 réponses à ce sujet

[Riknas]

More important question: Why is the fanbase so paranoid, self-victimizing, and defensive?

[Persephone]

MorrigansLove wrote...

nekhbet wrote...

MorrigansLove wrote...
You only like the game, because you enjoy it for what it is.

I don't understand. Is there another way of liking a game than liking it for what it is? Liking it for what it isn't is a bit too wide a definition. Liking, or disliking, it for what it ought to be gets a bit too metaphysical for me.

A few people in the entire world like quantum theory for what it is. A third person shooter. The people who dislike that game dislike it because it has ugly graphics, an awful story, and some of the worst character development ever. Do you understand now?

Eh?

Do YOU understand that none of the things you mentioned here are more than your OPINION?

[MorrigansLove]

Merci357 wrote...

MorrigansLove wrote...

Oh. My. God. Some people in this thread really do make me laugh. Look, I understand if you like the game, and find it as a nice fun time waster and such. But, please, please, PLEASE DO NOT say that this game is not mediocre, because the cons outweigh the pros for this game entirely. Seriously, re-used areas? Less involved conversations with companions? Plotholes galore? ALL of these things bring down this game, so NOONE should be calling a masterpiece. I understand if you are one of the people saying "Well, I can look past that..." but you cannot and should not say that this game is above average because it isn't. You only like the game, because you enjoy it for what it is.

Oh. My. God. I only like the game because I enjoy it? That's the only thing that does matter, in the end.

Look, it could have been (far) better. It is no masterpiece. I guess in the end it's a glass half full or half empty issue. I take the "half full" approach - I don't deny any of it's flaws. I don't like the level re-use, I don't like the wave mechanic,  but what I call mediocre is entirely up to me, you don't make this judgement for me. Thanks.

You're saying you know it has problems, but it isn't mediocre to YOU! The game IS mediocre, because of all the problems that it has. I can't be asked to explain anymore, here's a link to Rockpapershotgun if you want a professional analysis: http://www.rockpaper...-dragon-age-ii/

[MorrigansLove]

Persephone wrote...

MorrigansLove wrote...

nekhbet wrote...

MorrigansLove wrote...
You only like the game, because you enjoy it for what it is.

I don't understand. Is there another way of liking a game than liking it for what it is? Liking it for what it isn't is a bit too wide a definition. Liking, or disliking, it for what it ought to be gets a bit too metaphysical for me.

A few people in the entire world like quantum theory for what it is. A third person shooter. The people who dislike that game dislike it because it has ugly graphics, an awful story, and some of the worst character development ever. Do you understand now?

Eh?

Do YOU understand that none of the things you mentioned here are more than your OPINION?

Have you played Quantum Theory?

[cljqnsnyc]

Riknas wrote...

More important question: Why is the fanbase so paranoid, self-victimizing, and defensive?

Which fanbase would that be?

[upsettingshorts]

Well, not to put to fine a point on it but many of the various things Rock Paper Shotgun and/or forum users would cite as features of or aspects to Origins that made it a "masterpiece" are precisely the same things I disliked about it. Ergo, once again the opinions of others - be they marked with the label "professional" or not, are simply that.

Everyone has their own preferences, and I have mine.  They're no less valid, but the underlying implication when it is stated "the game is mediocre" is that my preferences don't matter.  But to me, they do.  They're the only ones that do.  

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 16 avril 2011 - 10:46 .

[brightblueink]

MorrigansLove wrote...

Oh. My. God. Some people in this thread really do make me laugh. Look, I understand if you like the game, and find it as a nice fun time waster and such. But, please, please, PLEASE DO NOT say that this game is not mediocre, because the cons outweigh the pros for this game entirely. Seriously, re-used areas? Less involved conversations with companions? Plotholes galore? ALL of these things bring down this game, so NOONE should be calling a masterpiece. I understand if you are one of the people saying "Well, I can look past that..." but you cannot and should not say that this game is above average because it isn't. You only like the game, because you enjoy it for what it is.

In my opinion, it is above average. It's not "a masterpiece" by any stretch of the imagination, but I wouldn't have called DA:O that, either. For me, the pros completely outweigh the cons.

Don't go around trumpeting your opinion as if it's fact. It's not. You will never get all gamers to agree that a game is masterpiece, or a POS, or even mediocre. There will always, ALWAYS be someone that disagrees with you. Since DA2 is rather contentious, there's going to be a lot of people that will disagree with you no matter what you say about the game.

Riknas wrote...

More important question: Why is the fanbase so paranoid, self-victimizing, and defensive?

Because we're gamers! We don't have anything better to do besides assume that every change made to a game series is a conspiracy of gaming companies to insult us.

[Zanallen]

MorrigansLove wrote...

Merci357 wrote...

MorrigansLove wrote...

Oh. My. God. Some people in this thread really do make me laugh. Look, I understand if you like the game, and find it as a nice fun time waster and such. But, please, please, PLEASE DO NOT say that this game is not mediocre, because the cons outweigh the pros for this game entirely. Seriously, re-used areas? Less involved conversations with companions? Plotholes galore? ALL of these things bring down this game, so NOONE should be calling a masterpiece. I understand if you are one of the people saying "Well, I can look past that..." but you cannot and should not say that this game is above average because it isn't. You only like the game, because you enjoy it for what it is.

Oh. My. God. I only like the game because I enjoy it? That's the only thing that does matter, in the end.

Look, it could have been (far) better. It is no masterpiece. I guess in the end it's a glass half full or half empty issue. I take the "half full" approach - I don't deny any of it's flaws. I don't like the level re-use, I don't like the wave mechanic,  but what I call mediocre is entirely up to me, you don't make this judgement for me. Thanks.

You're saying you know it has problems, but it isn't mediocre to YOU! The game IS mediocre, because of all the problems that it has. I can't be asked to explain anymore, here's a link to Rockpapershotgun if you want a professional analysis: http://www.rockpaper...-dragon-age-ii/

Question, why is Merci's personal opinion any less valid than your's or that of a professional reviewer?

[Morroian]

Merced652 wrote...

No, i find i highly value the opinion of my wife and friends. When they disagree with an assessment of mine i don't tell them to "**** off and die." I simply have a problem with both sides of the coin acting like Rinpochelameberry. The system is flawed because people who would generally be objective find that they cannot be because of individuals who are intent on not being so. This leads to petty cycle of hate and vitriol, of which i find myself participating in more often than not because of the hate elicited by comments i find retarded and without and level of objectivity. Such as someone so easily and flippantly dismissing issues one might make with a particular game. 

The level of de nile is high in this post.

Merced652 wrote...

Just from that alone you could make the case that Laidlaw was insulting a portion of the fanbase because he apparently pays them no heed. Being objective pretty much dictates that he know about, and probably acknowledge the more poignant issues that are brought up. 

And anyone with any objectivety would know how ludicrous it is to expect Laidlaw to criticise the game weeks out from its debut, especially being a representative of a public company beholden to shareholders.

[redneck nosferatu]

These fanboys sure prove how strong denial can be. The denial in this thread is so strong it warps reality.

Bioware insulted FFXIII, saying it wasn't an RPG. Then they released Dragon Age II, a game that was worse in every respect, being more linear, having no more choice in roleplaying and character customization, much worse graphics, recycled areas, a disjointed and slapped-together plot, and a metric ton of bugs. And I can't stop laughing at their hypocricy and miserable failure.

But that's just my opinion. Heh.

Modifié par redneck nosferatu, 16 avril 2011 - 10:50 .

[The Angry One]

I do think Laidlaw should at least lay off on defending the copy-pasted enviroments because frankly they're indefensible, and anytime anyone from BioWare tries to do this they just generate more resentment.
As far as insults go though, that's just silly.

[MorrigansLove]

Zanallen wrote...

MorrigansLove wrote...

Merci357 wrote...

MorrigansLove wrote...

Oh. My. God. Some people in this thread really do make me laugh. Look, I understand if you like the game, and find it as a nice fun time waster and such. But, please, please, PLEASE DO NOT say that this game is not mediocre, because the cons outweigh the pros for this game entirely. Seriously, re-used areas? Less involved conversations with companions? Plotholes galore? ALL of these things bring down this game, so NOONE should be calling a masterpiece. I understand if you are one of the people saying "Well, I can look past that..." but you cannot and should not say that this game is above average because it isn't. You only like the game, because you enjoy it for what it is.

Oh. My. God. I only like the game because I enjoy it? That's the only thing that does matter, in the end.

Look, it could have been (far) better. It is no masterpiece. I guess in the end it's a glass half full or half empty issue. I take the "half full" approach - I don't deny any of it's flaws. I don't like the level re-use, I don't like the wave mechanic,  but what I call mediocre is entirely up to me, you don't make this judgement for me. Thanks.

You're saying you know it has problems, but it isn't mediocre to YOU! The game IS mediocre, because of all the problems that it has. I can't be asked to explain anymore, here's a link to Rockpapershotgun if you want a professional analysis: http://www.rockpaper...-dragon-age-ii/

Question, why is Merci's personal opinion any less valid than your's or that of a professional reviewer?

Question, who would EA/Bioware listen to and actually take into account their opinion: Me/Merci or Rockpapershotgun?

[Persephone]

MorrigansLove wrote...

Merci357 wrote...

MorrigansLove wrote...

Oh. My. God. Some people in this thread really do make me laugh. Look, I understand if you like the game, and find it as a nice fun time waster and such. But, please, please, PLEASE DO NOT say that this game is not mediocre, because the cons outweigh the pros for this game entirely. Seriously, re-used areas? Less involved conversations with companions? Plotholes galore? ALL of these things bring down this game, so NOONE should be calling a masterpiece. I understand if you are one of the people saying "Well, I can look past that..." but you cannot and should not say that this game is above average because it isn't. You only like the game, because you enjoy it for what it is.

Oh. My. God. I only like the game because I enjoy it? That's the only thing that does matter, in the end.

Look, it could have been (far) better. It is no masterpiece. I guess in the end it's a glass half full or half empty issue. I take the "half full" approach - I don't deny any of it's flaws. I don't like the level re-use, I don't like the wave mechanic,  but what I call mediocre is entirely up to me, you don't make this judgement for me. Thanks.

You're saying you know it has problems, but it isn't mediocre to YOU! The game IS mediocre, because of all the problems that it has. I can't be asked to explain anymore, here's a link to Rockpapershotgun if you want a professional analysis: http://www.rockpaper...-dragon-age-ii/

And everyone is supposed to follow a professional reviewer's opinion like a herd of mindless cattle? (Wait, that actually happened.....in part)

No thanks, I'm not one to jump on Review bandwagons. I form my own opinions.

[The Angry One]

MorrigansLove wrote...

Question, who would EA/Bioware listen to and actually take into account their opinion: Me/Merci or Rockpapershotgun?

None of the above.

[Riknas]

cljqnsnyc wrote...

Riknas wrote...

More important question: Why is the fanbase so paranoid, self-victimizing, and defensive?

Which fanbase would that be?

Well, the paranoid, self-victimizing, defensive one(s)...

Modifié par Riknas, 16 avril 2011 - 10:53 .

[MorrigansLove]

Persephone wrote...

MorrigansLove wrote...

Merci357 wrote...

MorrigansLove wrote...

Oh. My. God. Some people in this thread really do make me laugh. Look, I understand if you like the game, and find it as a nice fun time waster and such. But, please, please, PLEASE DO NOT say that this game is not mediocre, because the cons outweigh the pros for this game entirely. Seriously, re-used areas? Less involved conversations with companions? Plotholes galore? ALL of these things bring down this game, so NOONE should be calling a masterpiece. I understand if you are one of the people saying "Well, I can look past that..." but you cannot and should not say that this game is above average because it isn't. You only like the game, because you enjoy it for what it is.

Oh. My. God. I only like the game because I enjoy it? That's the only thing that does matter, in the end.

Look, it could have been (far) better. It is no masterpiece. I guess in the end it's a glass half full or half empty issue. I take the "half full" approach - I don't deny any of it's flaws. I don't like the level re-use, I don't like the wave mechanic,  but what I call mediocre is entirely up to me, you don't make this judgement for me. Thanks.

You're saying you know it has problems, but it isn't mediocre to YOU! The game IS mediocre, because of all the problems that it has. I can't be asked to explain anymore, here's a link to Rockpapershotgun if you want a professional analysis: http://www.rockpaper...-dragon-age-ii/

And everyone is supposed to follow a professional reviewer's opinion like a herd of mindless cattle? (Wait, that actually happened.....in part)

No thanks, I'm not one to jump on Review bandwagons. I form my own opinions.

Alright, instead of reading any reviews on websites or magazines, why don't you go buy every game ever created and "form" your own opinion on them? Huh? You don't want to? Guess you'll have to read some reviews to find out if the game is good or not before you waste your money.

[Zanallen]

MorrigansLove wrote...

Question, who would EA/Bioware listen to and actually take into account their opinion: Me/Merci or Rockpapershotgun?

Ideally? Both. Which is what I believe they are doing. From what I have heard, Bioware is taking all praise/criticism and putting in it files to be further evaluated. If the majority of people have issue with a particular aspect of the game, they will most likely tweak said aspect in the next game.

[MorrigansLove]

Zanallen wrote...

MorrigansLove wrote...

Question, who would EA/Bioware listen to and actually take into account their opinion: Me/Merci or Rockpapershotgun?

Ideally? Both. Which is what I believe they are doing. From what I have heard, Bioware is taking all praise/criticism and putting in it files to be further evaluated. If the majority of people have issue with a particular aspect of the game, they will most likely tweak said aspect in the next game.

Aha, I guess we'll find out if that's true in the upcoming expansion/dlc's.

[Persephone]

redneck nosferatu wrote...

These fanboys sure prove how strong denial can be. The denial in this thread is so strong it warps reality.

Never mind the rest of your absolutely respectful, well written and constructive post but....

Reality is more warped by melodramatic egomaniacs howling about the Lead Designer of a game insulting their precious little level of importance.

And by expecting said Lead Designer to apologize, call his own creation crap...because THEY think so and clearly, Mr. Laidlaw MUST be brought to see that, no matter the cost! Burn the witch!

Modifié par Persephone, 16 avril 2011 - 10:55 .

[cljqnsnyc]

For me...

Voicing your opinion about a product you bought and was dissatisfied with is the right of every consumer. Expressing concern over the tone and choice characterizations posed by a certain designer is also the right of anyone who read it and felt affected by it.

Call me a whinner, old fogey, someone afraid of change, troll, paranoid, whichever label you choose, it doesn't change anything. If I bought something and wasn't happy about it, I'll say so....and I could care less what anyone has to say about it!

[Persephone]

MorrigansLove wrote...

Persephone wrote...

MorrigansLove wrote...

Merci357 wrote...

MorrigansLove wrote...

Oh. My. God. Some people in this thread really do make me laugh. Look, I understand if you like the game, and find it as a nice fun time waster and such. But, please, please, PLEASE DO NOT say that this game is not mediocre, because the cons outweigh the pros for this game entirely. Seriously, re-used areas? Less involved conversations with companions? Plotholes galore? ALL of these things bring down this game, so NOONE should be calling a masterpiece. I understand if you are one of the people saying "Well, I can look past that..." but you cannot and should not say that this game is above average because it isn't. You only like the game, because you enjoy it for what it is.

Oh. My. God. I only like the game because I enjoy it? That's the only thing that does matter, in the end.

Look, it could have been (far) better. It is no masterpiece. I guess in the end it's a glass half full or half empty issue. I take the "half full" approach - I don't deny any of it's flaws. I don't like the level re-use, I don't like the wave mechanic,  but what I call mediocre is entirely up to me, you don't make this judgement for me. Thanks.

You're saying you know it has problems, but it isn't mediocre to YOU! The game IS mediocre, because of all the problems that it has. I can't be asked to explain anymore, here's a link to Rockpapershotgun if you want a professional analysis: http://www.rockpaper...-dragon-age-ii/

And everyone is supposed to follow a professional reviewer's opinion like a herd of mindless cattle? (Wait, that actually happened.....in part)

No thanks, I'm not one to jump on Review bandwagons. I form my own opinions.

Alright, instead of reading any reviews on websites or magazines, why don't you go buy every game ever created and "form" your own opinion on them? Huh? You don't want to? Guess you'll have to read some reviews to find out if the game is good or not before you waste your money.

No, dearie. I'll follow the genres I like. Buy from the studios I trust. If I am on the fence, I'll rent the game first. Easy as that.

[MyKingdomCold]

how much less could you care?

[upsettingshorts]

cljqnsnyc wrote...
 I could care less what anyone has to say about it!

What could I do to make you care less, I wonder...

[Persephone]

MorrigansLove wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

MorrigansLove wrote...

Question, who would EA/Bioware listen to and actually take into account their opinion: Me/Merci or Rockpapershotgun?

Ideally? Both. Which is what I believe they are doing. From what I have heard, Bioware is taking all praise/criticism and putting in it files to be further evaluated. If the majority of people have issue with a particular aspect of the game, they will most likely tweak said aspect in the next game.

Aha, I guess we'll find out if that's true in the upcoming expansion/dlc's.

And of course it's ONLY true if everything you want is part of these upcoming DLC. Otherwise it'll be all "Betrayal!" again. Mark my words.

[Merci357]

MorrigansLove wrote...
You're saying you know it has problems, but it isn't mediocre to YOU! The game IS mediocre, because of all the problems that it has. I can't be asked to explain anymore, here's a link to Rockpapershotgun if you want a professional analysis: http://www.rockpaper...-dragon-age-ii/

You don't have to explain, since we are talking about opinions here, not facts. I am capable of forming my own opinion - I've played the game myself.

The review is quite good. His judgement is "...despite its genuinely being a solid RPG in many respects ..., I ended up not really liking it as a whole."

Compare that to my judgement "Despite its many flaws, I ended up liking it as a whole."

You, simply, agree with him. That's fine.

Modifié par Merci357, 16 avril 2011 - 11:00 .