436 réponses à ce sujet

[Persephone]

MorrigansLove wrote...

@Persephone - Another 6 months of Dev time would have done DAII a world of good.

AGREED! O.M.G, Persephone. We agree on something for once. I will also say that I'd like a lot of short, NOT reused dungeons, instead of a few long, arduous dungeons. More fun, less grinding. DA2's dungeons did feel like one big deep road, to be honest, though.

But...but....we CANNOT agree! We must not!!

The order dictates.......

Anyway, all kidding aside, yes, a lot shorter dungeons with more variety, I'm totally on board there!!!

[cljqnsnyc]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

cljqnsnyc wrote...

It's a paradox figure of speech

No it isn't.  It just means the exact opposite of "couldn't care less."

cljqnsnyc wrote...

and I still COULD CARE LESS!

Then answer my first question.  How can I - or anyone else - help you care less?

The point I made was clear and hasn't changed despite your attempts to turn my statement into a joke.

What constitutes a figure of speech is a debate for a different forum.

So please, continue with your ridicule if you wish.

[upsettingshorts]

cljqnsnyc wrote...

The point I made was clear and hasn't changed despite your attempts to turn my statement into a joke

I didn't need to do anything other than point at it.

Anyway, if someone else could explain whatever "point" you claim to have I might be able to take it seriously.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 16 avril 2011 - 11:30 .

[Tsarapihelas]

OP, it's because he wouldn't have his job otherwise.

[Persephone]

Justin2k wrote...

MorrigansLove wrote...

Oh. My. God. Some people in this thread really do make me laugh. Look, I understand if you like the game, and find it as a nice fun time waster and such. But, please, please, PLEASE DO NOT say that this game is not mediocre, because the cons outweigh the pros for this game entirely. Seriously, re-used areas? Less involved conversations with companions? Plotholes galore? ALL of these things bring down this game, so NOONE should be calling a masterpiece. I understand if you are one of the people saying "Well, I can look past that..." but you cannot and should not say that this game is above average because it isn't. You only like the game, because you enjoy it for what it is.

Exactly.   Bioware rate this game 10/10 on websites.  10/10 means cannot get better, is the best it could be.  Is great.  Do Bioware really think this?

3 quests bugged for me and wouldnt leave quest log.
a total of about 8 achievements bugged for me.
I saw the aftermath of Merril's companion quest before I had done it.
I could not get the final armor piece for Aveline.
A dead PC showed up in a cutscene alive and well.

None of that is opinion, just fact.  As for opinions, most of the game was spent doing the same sidequest over and over.  The names of the npc changed, and the left door would be locked and the right one open, but it was the same sidequest.

So yeah, 10/10?  Masterpiece?  No.  Maybe you just like grindy games.  Did some of you have fun, great for you.  Is it a mediocre game and failing to say so is accepting mediocrity?  Certainly.

If people want them to keep churning out buggy unfinished rushed games then by all means, keep licking away, noone is stopping you.  But don't try to tell me something is perfect when it's clearly not.

That is very skewed. One Bioware employee rating the game that high doesn't imply that this is Bioware's general view. (Esp. reading many Devs' reactions to the feedback. I.E. David Gaider)

Most of the bugs mentioned above are now fixed.

The same sidequest over & over? Writing wise, that is not true at all. We did see many locations reused for different quests however and that was sloppy.

There was MUCH more grinding in DAO. (The Deep Roads...eugh)

Just putting some extremist points into perspective here. Middle ground, people. :happy:

[Justin2k]

And to the person who said not reusing areas is impossible?  Well again you are accepting mediocrity to think this. 

The issue with the re-use of areas is that they use the exact same map.  Every time you go to a beach or a cave or wherever, it is the exact same map.  It never ever changes.   They have some locked door that makes it seem different, but in reality, it's the same map used every time you go in a cave.

You said DA:O re-used areas.  What DA:O mostly did was a tileset.  It used the same textures, the same pathing, the same walls, the same greenery.  But the map itself was entirely different for most of the game.  I guess they may have used the same random field once or twice but each important dungeon was re-mapped.

[nekhbet]

MorrigansLove wrote...

nekhbet wrote...

MorrigansLove wrote...
You only like the game, because you enjoy it for what it is.

I don't understand. Is there another way of liking a game than liking it for what it is? Liking it for what it isn't is a bit too wide a definition. Liking, or disliking, it for what it ought to be gets a bit too metaphysical for me.

A few people in the entire world like quantum theory for what it is. A third person shooter. The people who dislike that game dislike it because it has ugly graphics, an awful story, and some of the worst character development ever. Do you understand now?

They dislike the game for what it is, and what it is is to them is entirely defined by their subjective experience. Same for those who like it, only that their subjective experiences are positive.

My point is that you're trying to define objectively something that cannot be defined so. The game is what it is, and what it is is how people experience it. But it can be different things to different people. You used "for what it is" in a derogatory way back there, and I wanted to call you out on it, because your own experience isn't anything "more" than "enjoying the game for what it is". To you.


Anyway, that's a lot of words to say: shut up with the insults all around and enjoy the game or don't enjoy it. It's all between your ears, regardless of your opinions on it.

[Persephone]

Justin2k wrote...

And to the person who said not reusing areas is impossible?  Well again you are accepting mediocrity to think this. 

The issue with the re-use of areas is that they use the exact same map.  Every time you go to a beach or a cave or wherever, it is the exact same map.  It never ever changes.   They have some locked door that makes it seem different, but in reality, it's the same map used every time you go in a cave.

You said DA:O re-used areas.  What DA:O mostly did was a tileset.  It used the same textures, the same pathing, the same walls, the same greenery.  But the map itself was entirely different for most of the game.  I guess they may have used the same random field once or twice but each important dungeon was re-mapped.

Not re-using them at ALL is impossible. Stop putting words in my mouth, please.

I am all for re-mapping and more various designs, I have said that too.

[Maria Caliban]

I could care less about Dragon Age II.

[Zanallen]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I could care less about Dragon Age II.

I'm glad you somewhat enjoyed yourself.

[upsettingshorts]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I could care less about Dragon Age II.

Well played.

[cljqnsnyc]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

cljqnsnyc wrote...

The point I made was clear and hasn't changed despite your attempts to turn my statement into a joke

I didn't need to do anything other than point at it.

Anyway, if someone else could explain whatever "point" you claim to have I might be able to take it seriously.

 I don't know you...so your opinions.....which you have the right to.....are meaningless to me. I made a statement about the TOPIC and that has nothing to do with this pissing match you are trying to have with me. Whatever your opinion is about my statement, fine. My personal point of veiw doesn't need validation by someone else so whether or not you take me seriously doesn't matter.

[Envor44]

Why so serious OP.

[Zanallen]

cljqnsnyc wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

cljqnsnyc wrote...

The point I made was clear and hasn't changed despite your attempts to turn my statement into a joke

I didn't need to do anything other than point at it.

Anyway, if someone else could explain whatever "point" you claim to have I might be able to take it seriously.

 I don't know you...so your opinions.....which you have the right to.....are meaningless to me. I made a statement about the TOPIC and that has nothing to do with this pissing match you are trying to have with me. Whatever your opinion is about my statement, fine. My personal point of veiw doesn't need validation by someone else so whether or not you take me seriously doesn't matter.

Exactly. And that's the point. If only everyone on this forum agreed to disagree and vowed to not give a crap about the personal opinions of others while still respecting their right to have said opinions.

[upsettingshorts]

Zanallen wrote...

Exactly. And that's the point

Actually that was my point.  The whole tangent about "could care less" was a sidetrack about a misuse of a phrase.

[Zanallen]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

Exactly. And that's the point

Actually that was my point.  The whole tangent about "could care less" was a sidetrack about a misuse of a phrase.

Its also my point and thus is the point.

[Justin2k]

Persephone wrote...
Not re-using them at ALL is impossible. Stop putting words in my mouth, please.

I am all for re-mapping and more various designs, I have said that too.

Why is it impossible?  Skyrim does not have one single reused map.  Every single dungeon and overworld is individually mapped with tilesets.  I don't believe the Witcher 2 does either.  And the only reused map in DA:O if there were any was the odd field/campsite. 

If this is a 10/10 game according to Bioware, surely they should be doing this also.  Reality is, this game falls far behind the standard of the better WRPGs these days.  Not just in my opinion, but technically, bug-wise.

It's only strong point is the story and in all honesty, the choices feel shoehorned in.  For instance, regardless of who you side with at the end, the same result happens.  In a minor sidequest you get to be nice to a mage, or hate the mage.  Regardless of what you do the same outcome happens...  and it makes no sense at all if you chose to be nice to them...

It's not a great game.  As the other poster said, if you enjoyed it great, but by saying "oh well, it could have been better but lets be nice to them..." well its just accepting things.  If Bioware want to be the best in their field, if they want their fans to keep coming back, they should be getting these things right. 

I've bought every Bethesda and every Bioware game there is.  I know Skyrim will not disappoint me.  I cannot say the same about Mass Effect 3.  This is the position Bioware find themselves in now and if they keep releasing games like DA2 they're going to lose a lot of business.

[MorrigansLove]

Zanallen wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Zanallen wrote...

Exactly. And that's the point

Actually that was my point.  The whole tangent about "could care less" was a sidetrack about a misuse of a phrase.

Its also my point and thus is the point.

What's the point?

Modifié par MorrigansLove, 16 avril 2011 - 11:53 .

[Valcutio]

Bioware should pay anything Brent Knowles asks to come back. That man MADE Dragon Age what it was before the abomination that DA2 is came along. Not sure if I agree with some of the OPs comments but I know where he's coming from.

[Zanallen]

Justin2k wrote...

Why is it impossible?  Skyrim does not have one single reused map.  Every single dungeon and overworld is individually mapped with tilesets.  I don't believe the Witcher 2 does either.  And the only reused map in DA:O if there were any was the odd field/campsite. 

I like the part where you are stating facts about a game that isn't even out yet. That's like me saying that the climax of ME3 made the world weep due to its heartfelt, poignant story.

[cljqnsnyc]

Zanallen wrote...

cljqnsnyc wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

cljqnsnyc wrote...

The point I made was clear and hasn't changed despite your attempts to turn my statement into a joke

I didn't need to do anything other than point at it.

Anyway, if someone else could explain whatever "point" you claim to have I might be able to take it seriously.

 I don't know you...so your opinions.....which you have the right to.....are meaningless to me. I made a statement about the TOPIC and that has nothing to do with this pissing match you are trying to have with me. Whatever your opinion is about my statement, fine. My personal point of veiw doesn't need validation by someone else so whether or not you take me seriously doesn't matter.

Exactly. And that's the point. If only everyone on this forum agreed to disagree and vowed to not give a crap about the personal opinions of others while still respecting their right to have said opinions.

THAT was my POINT! It's more or less exactly what I said..before I was challenged to a game of semantics.

I have no problem agreeing to disagree. Challenging someone's right to their own opinion serves no purpose either. The statement I made was about the right to complain when you're dissatisfied....and having certain labels assigned to you by others who see things differently dosen't change the fact that you can still voice your opinion.

[MorrigansLove]

Post by Vilnii in constructive criticism:

While the new combat system was an amazing improvement, the game did loose its soul somewhere along the way....

# Reused areas


# Shoehorned in romances


# Weak storytelling - except, I repeat except for the Flemeth sequences.


# Cameos from DAO characters were just slapped on


# Enemies spawning out of thin air


# No sense of connection to your companions


# People in the world do not speak the lore, the player has to read wall after wall of text


The list can go on, but the general sense of a rushed, thrown together product is very strong after playing the game. I fear that comparisons with The Witcher 2 over the next few months will be brutal.


I hope Bioware does not decieve itself that there are no danger signs. I hope the development crew does not fall prey to arrogance and brush off feedback.

The old attitude of "We make what we want to make and you have to deal" cannot continue....

I wish them luck, I hope the team can pick up from here and do better.

[MJRick]

MorrigansLove wrote...

Oh. My. God. Some people in this thread really do make me laugh. Look, I understand if you like the game, and find it as a nice fun time waster and such. But, please, please, PLEASE DO NOT say that this game is not mediocre, because the cons outweigh the pros for this game entirely. Seriously, re-used areas? Less involved conversations with companions? Plotholes galore? ALL of these things bring down this game, so NOONE should be calling a masterpiece. I understand if you are one of the people saying "Well, I can look past that..." but you cannot and should not say that this game is above average because it isn't. You only like the game, because you enjoy it for what it is.

[MorrigansLove]

MJRick wrote...

MorrigansLove wrote...

Oh. My. God. Some people in this thread really do make me laugh. Look, I understand if you like the game, and find it as a nice fun time waster and such. But, please, please, PLEASE DO NOT say that this game is not mediocre, because the cons outweigh the pros for this game entirely. Seriously, re-used areas? Less involved conversations with companions? Plotholes galore? ALL of these things bring down this game, so NOONE should be calling a masterpiece. I understand if you are one of the people saying "Well, I can look past that..." but you cannot and should not say that this game is above average because it isn't. You only like the game, because you enjoy it for what it is.

Let me guess: You loved Dragon Age 2, and you're annoyed that I'm criticizing it?

[Persephone]

Justin2k wrote...

Persephone wrote...
Not re-using them at ALL is impossible. Stop putting words in my mouth, please.

I am all for re-mapping and more various designs, I have said that too.

Why is it impossible?  Skyrim does not have one single reused map.  Every single dungeon and overworld is individually mapped with tilesets.  I don't believe the Witcher 2 does either.  And the only reused map in DA:O if there were any was the odd field/campsite. 

If this is a 10/10 game according to Bioware, surely they should be doing this also.  Reality is, this game falls far behind the standard of the better WRPGs these days.  Not just in my opinion, but technically, bug-wise.

It's only strong point is the story and in all honesty, the choices feel shoehorned in.  For instance, regardless of who you side with at the end, the same result happens.  In a minor sidequest you get to be nice to a mage, or hate the mage.  Regardless of what you do the same outcome happens...  and it makes no sense at all if you chose to be nice to them...

It's not a great game.  As the other poster said, if you enjoyed it great, but by saying "oh well, it could have been better but lets be nice to them..." well its just accepting things.  If Bioware want to be the best in their field, if they want their fans to keep coming back, they should be getting these things right. 

I've bought every Bethesda and every Bioware game there is.  I know Skyrim will not disappoint me.  I cannot say the same about Mass Effect 3.  This is the position Bioware find themselves in now and if they keep releasing games like DA2 they're going to lose a lot of business.

Er...

Skyrim has not even been released yet.

And after the mess called Oblivion.........*Huggles Morrowind*

According to Bioware? One Bioware employee =/= Bioware.

As for the rest, that is your decision to make. I for one am completely fired up to get my greedy paws on ME3. And more DAII related content.