126 réponses à ce sujet

[Stukovkh]

omgmahbrain wrote...

TIM has 'ALWAYS' been a bad guy, does anybody remember the stuff Cerberus did in ME1??

And that stuff makes TIM a "bad guy" how, exactly?

The dude is a ****, its niave to believe that all the ceberus projects he runs are necessary evils. I don't understand why people are so quick to trust/support him. Hes the best anology for the great deciever, well dressed, clean cut, with "noble pro-human goals".  I would be suprised if any apology or reassurance from TIM that cerberus/TIM have good intentions was geniune. Wasteing recources is not his concern. His personal agenda is. If he has to spend billions to bring shepard into the world ok, if he has to spend a few more billion to kill shep he will. As everybody knows we wont know his/cerberus' true motives until ME3 but until then he still top of the sh*t list in my book. 

[The BS Police]

omgmahbrain wrote...

TIM has 'ALWAYS' been a bad guy, does anybody remember the stuff Cerberus did in ME1??

And that stuff makes TIM a "bad guy" how, exactly?

How is impalling a bunch of innocent colonists on Dragons Teeth in order to turn them into Husks and study them not evil? Let alone accidently setting the Rachni loose in the galaxy and killing Alliance Admirals doesn't make them good either.

[omgmahbrain]

The dude is a ****, its niave to believe that all the ceberus projects he runs are necessary evils. I don't understand why people are so quick to trust/support him. Hes the best anology for the great deciever, well dressed, clean cut, with "noble pro-human goals". I would be suprised if any apology or reassurance from TIM that cerberus/TIM have good intentions was geniune. Wasteing recources is not his concern. His personal agenda is. If he has to spend billions to bring shepard into the world ok, if he has to spend a few more billion to kill shep he will. As everybody knows we wont know his/cerberus' true motives until ME3 but until then he still top of the sh*t list in my book.

I'm sorry, but I'm unable to decipher your paranoid rambling.

Let alone accidently setting the Rachni loose in the galaxy and killing Alliance Admirals doesn't make them good either.

How were the Rachni experiments evil? If successful they would have saved a good number of lives. And let's not pretend Kahoku was a saint.

[The BS Police]

omgmahbrain wrote...
How were the Rachni experiments evil? If successful they would have saved a good number of lives.

They were expirmenting on sentient creatures, that alone is evil as wel learned from real life events like the holocaust.

And let's not pretend Kahoku was a saint.

How do you know he wasn't a saint? From what we saw, he was investigating a mysterious death of an Alliance Operative, his men were lured into a Thresher Maw nest by Cerberus, and as soon as he found out that information, he was hunted down and murdered by Cerberus.

 

[Dean_the_Young]

The BS Police wrote...

omgmahbrain wrote...

TIM has 'ALWAYS' been a bad guy, does anybody remember the stuff Cerberus did in ME1??

And that stuff makes TIM a "bad guy" how, exactly?

How is impalling a bunch of innocent colonists on Dragons Teeth in order to turn them into Husks and study them not evil?

Where are we ever told or suggested that Cerberus instigated that on a corporate colony world? A corporation, mind you, that was quite willing to infect civilians with the Thorian?

We've seen a number of colonists and back-woods colonies impale themselves on Dragon's Teeth. All we're told is that Cerberus went and cause samples: how it started, if anyone in particular started it, is never gone into.

Let alone accidently setting the Rachni loose in the galaxy and killing Alliance Admirals doesn't make them good either.

No, but then accidents are rarely evil either. Killing Kohaku is certainly bad... but also understandable, whether from a perspective that Cerberus is still part of the Alliance or not. It's hard to de-legitimize self-defense, even from the illegitimate.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 17 avril 2011 - 11:59 .

[omgmahbrain]

They were expirmenting on sentient creatures, that alone is evil as wel learned from real life events like the holocaust.

...and there goes the thread!

How do you know he wasn't a saint?

He was going to give classified Alliance information to the Shadow Broker. Do you realise how irresponsible that was?

From what we saw, he was investigating a mysterious death of an Alliance
Operative, his men were lured into a Thresher Maw nest by Cerberus, and
as soon as he found out that information, he was hunted down and
murdered by Cerberus.

That's a bit of a misrepresentation of what happened.

Modifié par omgmahbrain, 17 avril 2011 - 12:09 .

[Dean_the_Young]

The BS Police wrote...

omgmahbrain wrote...
How were the Rachni experiments evil? If successful they would have saved a good number of lives.

They were expirmenting on sentient creatures, that alone is evil as wel learned from real life events like the holocaust.

Sure... if you know the creatures are sentient beforehand. Which, with the Rachni, is not all-apparent, nor was it assumed.

And let's not pretend Kahoku was a saint.

How do you know he wasn't a saint? From what we saw, he was investigating a mysterious death of an Alliance Operative, his men were lured into a Thresher Maw nest by Cerberus, and as soon as he found out that information, he was hunted down and murdered by Cerberus.

No, it wasn't even then. As soon as he made a deal with the Shadow Broker for information, promised Alliance secrets to the Broker in exchange, and made efforts and preparations to hurt them... then, and only then, did they kill him.

Cerberus was quite happy to leave him alone when he wasn't threatening them or the Alliance.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Redhot_1 wrote...

^Isn't that kinda, well, obvious?

Well, yeah, but just to throw it out there. I just hope they stay true to their word and don't spoil it away halfway through the marketing campaign.

[Redhot_1]

^Agreed

[Stukovkh]

omgmahbrain wrote...

The dude is a ****, its niave to believe that all the ceberus projects he runs are necessary evils. I don't understand why people are so quick to trust/support him. Hes the best anology for the great deciever, well dressed, clean cut, with "noble pro-human goals". I would be suprised if any apology or reassurance from TIM that cerberus/TIM have good intentions was geniune. Wasteing recources is not his concern. His personal agenda is. If he has to spend billions to bring shepard into the world ok, if he has to spend a few more billion to kill shep he will. As everybody knows we wont know his/cerberus' true motives until ME3 but until then he still top of the sh*t list in my book.

I'm sorry, but I'm unable to decipher your paranoid rambling.

Let alone accidently setting the Rachni loose in the galaxy and killing Alliance Admirals doesn't make them good either.

How were the Rachni experiments evil? If successful they would have saved a good number of lives. And let's not pretend Kahoku was a saint.

lol I'm just an Alliance fanboy.

[omgmahbrain]

lol I'm just an Alliance fanboy.

Uh...yeah...okay.

[The BS Police]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

The BS Police wrote...

omgmahbrain wrote...
How were the Rachni experiments evil? If successful they would have saved a good number of lives.

They were expirmenting on sentient creatures, that alone is evil as wel learned from real life events like the holocaust.

Sure... if you know the creatures are sentient beforehand. Which, with the Rachni, is not all-apparent, nor was it assumed.

And let's not pretend Kahoku was a saint.

How do you know he wasn't a saint? From what we saw, he was investigating a mysterious death of an Alliance Operative, his men were lured into a Thresher Maw nest by Cerberus, and as soon as he found out that information, he was hunted down and murdered by Cerberus.

No, it wasn't even then. As soon as he made a deal with the Shadow Broker for information, promised Alliance secrets to the Broker in exchange, and made efforts and preparations to hurt them... then, and only then, did they kill him.

Cerberus was quite happy to leave him alone when he wasn't threatening them or the Alliance.

1. The Rachni had spaceships during the Rachni War's, that alone say's they are sentient!

2. Admiral Kahoku was not giving information related to the Alliance to the Shadow Broker, rather the information was simply related to Cerberus, possible Cerberus personel and strongholds, the information was simply deemed classified by the Alliance! Sure is it morally wrong for him to do that? Of course, however the Shadow Broker views Cerberus as a threat aswell, eitherway Kahoku never even got the chance to keep or abck away from that deal.

Even then Renagade Shepard's can transmit the data to the Shadow Broker aswell, so yeah.

Modifié par The BS Police, 17 avril 2011 - 12:20 .

[Dean_the_Young]

The BS Police wrote...

1. The Rachni had spaceships during the Rachni War's, that alone say's they are sentient!

It says that the Rachni Queens are sentient. For a queen-based hive-mind, that still leaves how much mind the 'drones' have: are they themselves sentient, or are they simply directed and controlled by the 'Master CPU'? If ten skeletons at my command march towards you, are those skeletons sentient, or am I controlling automotons? 

It's a valid question in a hive-mind species.

2. Admiral Kahoku was not giving information related to the Alliance to the Shadow Broker, rather the information was simply related to Cerberus, possible Cerberus personel and strongholds, the information was simply deemed classified by the Alliance! Sure is it morally wrong for him to do that? Of course, however the Shadow Broker views Cerberus as a threat aswell, either Kahoku never even got the chance to keep or abck away from that deal.

And? That's not a defense of Kohaku: you even conceded that it was legally and morally wrong to promise to do so.

Your argument isn't that Kohaku was right, but rather that it would hurt Cerberus, which isn't in question.

Even then Renagade Shepard's can transmit the data to the Shadow Broker aswell, so yeah.

Yeah. Renegade Shepard can hurt the Alliance and break laws as well.

Who woulda thought?

[omgmahbrain]

2. Admiral Kahoku was not giving information related to the Alliance to the Shadow Broker, rather the information was simply related to Cerberus, possible Cerberus personel and strongholds, the information was simply deemed classified by the Alliance! Sure is it morally wrong for him to do that? Of course, however the Shadow Broker views Cerberus as a threat aswell, either Kahoku never even got the chance to keep or abck away from that deal.

You do realise you just conceded the argument, right?

Even then Renagade Shepard's can transmit the data to the Shadow Broker aswell, so yeah.

4realyo?

[The BS Police]

omgmahbrain wrote...

2. Admiral Kahoku was not giving information related to the Alliance to the Shadow Broker, rather the information was simply related to Cerberus, possible Cerberus personel and strongholds, the information was simply deemed classified by the Alliance! Sure is it morally wrong for him to do that? Of course, however the Shadow Broker views Cerberus as a threat aswell, either Kahoku never even got the chance to keep or abck away from that deal.

You do realise you just conceded the argument, right?

No not really, you are forgetting that even though it would be morally wrong to betray the Alliances trust by sending the Data to the Shadow Broker, Kahoku proberly suspected Cerberus still had contacts in the Alliance, so putting all of his eggs in one basket was not the smartest move to make. Handing over the data to both the Alliance and the Shadow Broker would ensure that eventually the data would hurt Cerberus.

Morally wrong to hand the data to the Shadow Broker? yes. But also not a garantee success if you hand it to the Alliance if the data falls into Cerberus's contacts within the Alliance.


Eitherway though that data doesn't seem to have any impact eitherway since the Shadow Broker tries to sell Shepards corpse no matter what you do with the data, unless if Liara manages to stumble accross the data in ME3 of course.

Modifié par The BS Police, 17 avril 2011 - 12:41 .

[Icinix]

Its because TIM is a jerk.

..and a moron.

[VendettaI154]

Cerberus hunting Shepard during a Reaper invasion makes no sense ... Cerberus should be working with the Alliance against a common enemy that is annihilating their race.

[AlexXIV]

VendettaI154 wrote...

Cerberus hunting Shepard during a Reaper invasion makes no sense ... Cerberus should be working with the Alliance against a common enemy that is annihilating their race.

Maybe in ME3 we finally get to see the true face of Cerberus. I would actually appreciate that, no matter if they are the good guys or bad guys. Atm there are good points pro and versus cerberus that leaves me kind of undecided.

[Almostfaceman]

AlexXIV wrote...

VendettaI154 wrote...

Cerberus hunting Shepard during a Reaper invasion makes no sense ... Cerberus should be working with the Alliance against a common enemy that is annihilating their race.

Maybe in ME3 we finally get to see the true face of Cerberus. I would actually appreciate that, no matter if they are the good guys or bad guys. Atm there are good points pro and versus cerberus that leaves me kind of undecided.

That's cool.

*opens door to a room with TiM in it*

Jack, Toombs - have at 'im.  

[Black Howling]

Babli wrote...

Sooo...Reapers are attacking Earth but TIM is wasting time with trying to kill someone who wants to defeat the Reapers?

That makes sense...not.

He is indoctrinated, he sees Reapers offerings as the best thing for human race. True evolution. Submission preferable to extinction.
In short, he is just another bad guy now.

imo.

Pretty much, this. He might not even be indoctrinated. He's looking out for humanity becoming all powerful, and he knows beating the Reapers is a pipedream. I'm sure Harbinger just made him an offer: Give me Shepard dead or alive and you and those worthy or your species shall acesend to our ranks. Most ppl in that position would follow through.

Modifié par Black Howling, 17 avril 2011 - 03:26 .

[knightnblu]

TIM wants to kill Shep for one of two reasons:

1. Shep destroyed the collector base and denied Cerberus the tech advantages that TIM wanted to secure human dominance. That really ticked off TIM and now he wants revenge for the affront.

2. Shep handed him the base and now Cerberus has the tech advantages they need to destroy the Reaper threat. This means that Shep is no loner needed by humanity and can be safely dispatched without risking the survival of the race. As such, Shep is a loose cannon and has to be ended because he has the ability to end Cerberus due to his/her skill and knowledge of Cerberus.

[Ahriman]

I can see one variant.

TIM: Greeting, Shepard, finally restoration of your body is finished and we can remove your implants. I'm sending you coordinates of our med center.
Shepard: Sorry, Jack, I don't have time for that. If you haven't noticed I'm saving the galaxy.
TIM: Shepard, listen to me! These implants...
Shepard: Bye bye.
TIM: Crap. Why none of my porject ends good?

[Dave of Canada]

Unethical =/= evil.

[ISpeakTheTruth]

The reason why TIM is after Shepard is that he feels guilty about all the bad things he's done and he wants Shepard to kill him. Shepard being the kind man that he is will grant his wish.

[Gyroscopic_Trout]

I just assumed it was because TIM's plan to destroy the Reapers was something so ridiculously bad that Shepard would never agree to it, like blowing up the Earth, or weaponizing babies or something. He therefore decides to strike preemptively.