34 réponses à ce sujet

[sassperella]

Kawamura wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

sassperella wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

The Qun can shove it.

No matter the excuse of mages, blood magic is wrong. They should fight like real warriors. They cna cast fireballs, heal themselves magically and summon fire storms and then them gaining aid from demons is okay? Nope. They already have an advantage over normal people, summoning demons to fight for them just makes the fight even less fair.

Blood magic... like the Joining?

EDIT: Because not only am i slow, I'm redundant!

Not to mention using phylactaries to hunt down mages by templars... this borders on blood magic too.

Not really.
Blood magic is the act of using blood to power spells instead of Lyrium. Neither the Joining or phylactery tracking is powered by blood.

Which the Joining and phylacteries seem to do.

It's... a grey area. Probably not the sort of thing you'd like to argue with a Templar about, for example, but it seems like both would be blood magic, er,  thingies.

I believe even David Gaider admitted it was a grey area.

[The Angry One]

sassperella wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

sassperella wrote...

Kawamura wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

The Qun can shove it.

No matter the excuse of mages, blood magic is wrong. They should fight like real warriors. They cna cast fireballs, heal themselves magically and summon fire storms and then them gaining aid from demons is okay? Nope. They already have an advantage over normal people, summoning demons to fight for them just makes the fight even less fair.

Blood magic... like the Joining?

EDIT: Because not only am i slow, I'm redundant!

Not to mention using phylactaries to hunt down mages by templars... this borders on blood magic too.

Not really.
Blood magic is the act of using blood to power spells instead of Lyrium. Neither the Joining or phylactery tracking is powered by blood.

Which the Joining and phylacteries seem to do.

It's... a grey area. Probably not the sort of thing you'd like to argue with a Templar about, for example, but it seems like both would be blood magic, er,  thingies.

I believe even David Gaider admitted it was a grey area.

Maybe, but the important part and what makes blood magic powerful/dangerous is when blood is used to power magic.
Sort of like how doctors use radioactive dye, and uranium is used in fission reactors, both are nuclear but one is more potent than the other.

Modifié par The Angry One, 17 avril 2011 - 04:56 .

[Emperor Iaius I]

Yes, but when you use it to power reactors, the benefits generally tend to outweigh the costs so long as you know what you're doing and follow proper scientific and engineering standards. If you build a reactor in your backyard, using instructions that shady fellow on the internet gave you, you're just asking for trouble.

Just to be clear, the shady fellow on the internet is a demon.

Modifié par Emperor Iaius I, 17 avril 2011 - 05:09 .

[Schala00neg]

The impression that I got from talking to NPCs is that some Templars were majorly abusing the Rite. When Tranquil are wandering around talking about Ser Alrik "visiting" them during the night and other mages, such as Alain, making comments to the same effect- it sounds like some Templars are giving the Rite to mages that won't lay back at take it.

If I was given the choice of being raped repeatedly, perhaps over years, or being forced into the Rite, I probably would slit my wrists, invite a demon into my body, and take out as many ****s as I could.

[hoorayforicecream]

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

Yes, but when you use it to power reactors, the benefits generally tend to outweigh the costs so long as you know what you're doing and follow proper scientific and engineering standards. If you build a reactor in your backyard, using instructions that shady fellow on the internet gave you, you're just asking for trouble.

Just to be clear, the shady fellow on the internet is a demon.

Biggest issue is that the only people who knew the proper scientific and engineering standards are long dead and that information is outlawed and only kept in bits and pieces that are jealously guarded by people who tend to spend their time consulting with shady fellows on the internet.

[Emperor Iaius I]

Well. Partially. You describe Orlesian Chanry Circles well, but it's a bit different in Tevinter. They're using surplus Soviet reactor casings and parts which--though not as safe as they could be--still have a modicum of scientific know-how behind it. The problem is, even though Tevinter blood mages are accomplished magisters who are able to resist demonic possession, they still have to outwardly pretent they're going along with the Chantry's rules and so aren't able to properly reconstruct a lot of the lost lore. We know that they can summon demons and we know that they do have templars to take down abominations, but we don't know how much more successful they are as a whole. The magisters seem to do fine, but what about the lesser mages? How often do they have to take them down?

[hoorayforicecream]

Emperor Iaius I wrote...

Well. Partially. You describe Orlesian Chanry Circles well, but it's a bit different in Tevinter. They're using surplus Soviet reactor casings and parts which--though not as safe as they could be--still have a modicum of scientific know-how behind it. The problem is, even though Tevinter blood mages are accomplished magisters who are able to resist demonic possession, they still have to outwardly pretent they're going along with the Chantry's rules and so aren't able to properly reconstruct a lot of the lost lore. We know that they can summon demons and we know that they do have templars to take down abominations, but we don't know how much more successful they are as a whole. The magisters seem to do fine, but what about the lesser mages? How often do they have to take them down?

Actually, no. The Tevinters don't bow to the Andrastean Chantry, they have their own chantry with their own Divine (the Black Divine, as opposed to the White Divine in Val Royeaux, Orlais), and their own templar order. The Chantry and Templars still fulfill the same role in Tevinter (opiate of the masses, killers of abominations, respectively) but the real power still comes from the magisters. They even have a good relationship with the dwarves, providing their chantry with a lyrium supply as well.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I'm fairly certain that the tevinter magisters are pretty much a dog-eat-dog society. There's no grand university teaching magic in Tevinter, and the magisters jealously guard their own secrets from each other for fear of losing advantage. The only way mages advance is to become apprentices, but I hardly think the magisters treat their apprentices benevolently.

Generally, the only way to learn blood magic is either to luck into it (what Anders thought happened to Merrill), learn it from a book randomly left behind by an idiot mage (Jowan), learn it from a blood mage (Tevinter magisters, sometimes), or learn it from a demon (Warden in DA:O, Merrill, and majority of blood mages we've encountered).

Modifié par hoorayforicecream, 17 avril 2011 - 05:55 .

[Emperor Iaius I]

They are both Andrastian. That's like saying Christian; there are different denominations of the same. I'm quite aware of the two chantries; what did you think I meant by "Orlesian Chantry"?

The magisters cannot openly practice blood magic, even there. Regardless of the influence they have, and despite the fact that the Black Divine is a magister himself, openly practicing blood magic would mean Exalted Marches. It's an "open secret" among the magisters--and Fenris was a slave to a highly placed magister--but it's not exactly paraded in public.

They have an Arcanist Hall. They have institutions of magical research. They have circles of magi--which is where the term came. You're correct about jealously guarding their secrets, certainly, as part of power plays: but it suits nobody to have an abomination running around. Now, we don't have any evidence either way about whether or not they teach these sorts of things to their apprentices, and like I said above, we don't know how often lesser mages become abominations there.

What we do know, however, is those who rise to the rank of magister (which, remember, lies above first enchanter) tend to know what they're doing.

[Torax]

The Tevinter's Magisters seem to remind me a bit like the Sith. A constantly power struggle. Each would love to be the Archon but all would be guarding their own power with all their might. Teaching your apprentices all you know would come at great risk. I do wager it's how much of their knowledge even now would only be portions of it. But if Fenris is to be believed, there is no regular chantry there. There is one to at least placate an exalted March upon them but the Magisters are back in control. I just doubt they're the giant enough Empire to wage war on every nation around them. Blood Magic is the tool of choice, more plentiful than lyrium and at times being able to warp the minds of your opponents is more of a gain than to outright kill them.

[Emperor Iaius I]

What makes you say that there's no regular Chantry there? Is the Orlesian Chantry's oppression of mages the definition of what a Chantry is? Gaider's said that the Tevinter religion today is Andrastianism: we can see this through Fenris as well, since the Sword of Mercy is seen as a symbol of honor throughout the Imperium. It's a doctrinal difference: they take "magic should serve man" as a literal imperative. The rulers of mankind, therefore, use magic to serve them.

Believe me, I would love it if the Tevinters thought nothing of Andrastian ways. That's just not true, though.