182 réponses à ce sujet

[sevalaricgirl]

daemon1129 wrote...

dreepa wrote...

Hey,

I just came across this video:

http://www.ea.com/au...OPY1065140aRCRD

Maik Laidlaw talking about DA:O being not regular fantasy but being dark, being more challenging... being more "mature" and the combat is more "grown up"...

Somehow I think that he should ve rememberd his own words before making DA2 *G*

Combat is more "grown up"?  So what about DA2's combat? Only litte kids would believe real combat would have you doing a backflip to kick a flask at your enemy when you can just freaking throw it.  Oh also when slice your enemies, they explode into strawberries.  DA2 combat was much more immature than DAO ever was.  Explain to me why on earth was the sequel's combat getting stupidier from grown up into litte kids fantasy?  Is it to attract the CoD crowd?  If thats the case, than Bioware is insulting them by saying CoD crowd would like kid's stuff instead of "Grown up" combat.

I am a female who loves COD:MW2 and I found the combat in DA2 ridiculous to some extent.  Yes it was fun, mature it was not, realistic it was not.  COD warfare is realistic but a little less bloody than I like, lol.  Splattering bodies in DA2, not mature.  I agree with you completely.

[elearon1]

Seena wrote...
Sam Raimi and Rob Tapert weren't concerned with making Spartacus one iota hisorically "right".   It's just not what they do   

Well, to be fair, there are some historically accurate parts to Spartacus, though that wasn't really the audience they were shooting for with this series, I imagine.  (Just as there is some historical accuracy in the much better movie "Gladiator", but the main focus of the film was the story, the combat and the ... no, I think that's about it.)  

Point being, period shows and movies are rarely very accurate because most audience members are not going to care, so long as it looks like what they'd expect of the era.  It is when that illusion is broken that people start to complain.  Film and games are in the business of entertainment - which maybe a little education in the fringes for the people really wanting it - and as such one needs to have realistic expecations in these matters when he or she comes to that product.

[Seena]

Rockpopple wrote...

I've read some posts from people in this very thread that make it quite clear that for some people - which is what I said - it is the issue.

Maybe it's not for you, and I salute you for it, but I wasn't talking particularly about you.

I've pretty much followed the thread from the beginning. And while some people are a little more "tongue in cheek" in how they relate their position - it's pretty much universal.

It ISN'T that people WANT to see nudity and graphic sex.

It IS, that since the target audience is SUPPOSEDLY a "MATURE" one, they would like to be treated, as a "MATURE" one, and not insulted with lame peek-a-boo sex in their underwear love scenes.

If you are going to include a damn sex scene, and CHOOSE to render the entire body -  have the balls to do it in an ADULT way (instead of treating us like 11 year old children).

If you don't have the balls to render the full body sex scenes in an ADULT and MATURE way - stick to facial expressions, or leave the damn things out entirely.

Does that clear things up? 

[Seena]

elearon1 wrote...

Seena wrote...
Sam Raimi and Rob Tapert weren't concerned with making Spartacus one iota hisorically "right".   It's just not what they do   

Well, to be fair, there are some historically accurate parts to Spartacus, though that wasn't really the audience they were shooting for with this series, I imagine.  (Just as there is some historical accuracy in the much better movie "Gladiator", but the main focus of the film was the story, the combat and the ... no, I think that's about it.)  

Point being, period shows and movies are rarely very accurate because most audience members are not going to care, so long as it looks like what they'd expect of the era.  It is when that illusion is broken that people start to complain.  Film and games are in the business of entertainment - which maybe a little education in the fringes for the people really wanting it - and as such one needs to have realistic expecations in these matters when he or she comes to that product.

Yes, there were some - but that wasn't an intention - it was a consequence.

Being a huge Tapetrt/Raimi fan I just chuckle when people complain that their stuff isn't "historically correct" or contain anachronisms.  They really aren't shooting for "historical correctness".

[Seena]

sevalaricgirl wrote...

I am a female who loves COD:MW2 and I found the combat in DA2 ridiculous to some extent.  Yes it was fun, mature it was not, realistic it was not.  COD warfare is realistic but a little less bloody than I like, lol.  Splattering bodies in DA2, not mature.  I agree with you completely.

I'm playing through DAO again - and just killed Weylond. I decapitated him! -- never did THAT before! 

[Rockpopple]

Do you really want me to go through 6 pages of this thread and drudge up and copy and paste every reference to sex and nudity as part of the posters' complaints about this game? Cuz I'm not doing that. I'm at work, and I've got enough to do as is, posting here and working at the same time.

But as it stands, I don't have to, cuz you already made my point. My point was, again, for some people a big part, if not a major part, of what makes a game mature is how realistically they portray sex in the game, vis-a-vis nudity.

To which I respond: there are different ways of portraying sex in games/books/movies that are in "mature" movies, without showing nudity. This is kind of a fact. Dragon Age II took this tact.

Your problem seems to be with Dragon Age: Origins, which in fact did render a sex scenes but did not unclothe the characters. Hey, I agree with you. They did it wrong. They should have had the...temerity.... to unclothe those characters if they were gonna render a full-body nude scene. Dragon Age II didn't have that problem, tho, so.... yup.

And lastly, you oughta calm down a little. We're just having a conversation here.

[elearon1]

Seena wrote...
It IS, that since the target audience is SUPPOSEDLY a "MATURE" one, they would like to be treated, as a "MATURE" one, and not insulted with lame peek-a-boo sex in their underwear love scenes.

See, I thought the sex scenes were handled just fine ... I don't think the presence or lack of nudity effects the maturity of those scenes in either way.  They were emotional, (more or less) passionate, and very clear about where they were going.  I think Mature players are more than capable of filling in the blanks themselves, and should be just as comfortable not feeling as though nudity should be the defining element of a love scene. (especially when you're only seeing it at the begining)

Now, it might have been a little silly to have them laying around in their underwear After the sex scene was finished ... as if to suggest they'd done the deed, then made certain to dress before snuggling - or what not.  In those scenes I think it would have been better to simply have them under a blanket and - when someone did get up - have an off screen shuffle of clothing sound, then swow them in skivies, or - better yet - wrapped in a blanket, towel, or robe.

But, let us face it, the best love scene in any game so far still belongs to Mass Effect; it was passionate, sensual and suggestive without ever having to beat you over the head with the details of what were happening.


Edit:  By the way, that "draw out of the scene" mechanic they used is actually one I'm very fond of and, as a matter of fact, is how I noted in a post some time before release, how I would prefer to see the scenes done. (lacking the ME option)

Modifié par elearon1, 19 avril 2011 - 02:15 .

[Seena]

Rockpopple wrote...

Do you really want me to go through 6 pages of this thread and drudge up and copy and paste every reference to sex and nudity as part of the posters' complaints about this game? Cuz I'm not doing that. I'm at work, and I've got enough to do as is, posting here and working at the same time.

But as it stands, I don't have to, cuz you already made my point. My point was, again, for some people a big part, if not a major part, of what makes a game mature is how realistically they portray sex in the game, vis-a-vis nudity.

To which I respond: there are different ways of portraying sex in games/books/movies that are in "mature" movies, without showing nudity. This is kind of a fact. Dragon Age II took this tact.

Your problem seems to be with Dragon Age: Origins, which in fact did render a sex scenes but did not unclothe the characters. Hey, I agree with you. They did it wrong. They should have had the...temerity.... to unclothe those characters if they were gonna render a full-body nude scene. Dragon Age II didn't have that problem, tho, so.... yup.

And lastly, you oughta calm down a little. We're just having a conversation here.

I'm not not calm. I'm passionate.  And I honestly tire of the same blanket accusations that anyone who had issues about the way the sex scenes were rendered - just wants to see pron. (intentionally misspelled).

YOU didn't do that - and that was noted. Thank-you. You just happened to be the straw.

I do believe that MOST people who had problems with the sex scenes - have them for the same reason I do. NOt because they want to see pron.

[Seena]

elearon1 wrote...

Seena wrote...
It IS, that since the target audience is SUPPOSEDLY a "MATURE" one, they would like to be treated, as a "MATURE" one, and not insulted with lame peek-a-boo sex in their underwear love scenes.

See, I thought the sex scenes were handled just fine ... I don't think the presence or lack of nudity effects the maturity of those scenes in either way.  They were emotional, (more or less) passionate, and very clear about where they were going.  I think Mature players are more than capable of filling in the blanks themselves, and should be just as comfortable not feeling as though nudity should be the defining element of a love scene. (especially when you're only seeing it at the begining)

Now, it might have been a little silly to have them laying around in their underwear After the sex scene was finished ... as if to suggest they'd done the deed, then made certain to dress before snuggling - or what not.  In those scenes I think it would have been better to simply have them under a blanket and - when someone did get up - have an off screen shuffle of clothing sound, then swow them in skivies, or - better yet - wrapped in a blanket, towel, or robe.

But, let us face it, the best love scene in any game so far still belongs to Mass Effect; it was passionate, sensual and suggestive without ever having to beat you over the head with the details of what were happening.


Edit:  By the way, that "draw out of the scene" mechanic they used is actually one I'm very fond of and, as a matter of fact, is how I noted in a post some time before release, how I would prefer to see the scenes done. (lacking the ME option)

The scenes in ME were done well.  But honestly how you find that people having sex with their underclothes on is "just fine" - is beyond me. But - that's me. (But I think we are intermingling DAO and DA2's scenes)

Like I said - if you can't/won't render a believable scene with nudity - then render one WITHOUT nudity that is believable (like the one you described)  It's that simple and imo makes you far more credible. As it is it looks like Bioware is trying to appease both the FOX network, and the "mature" gamer population - and in this case, imo they did a ****** poor job.

Modifié par Seena, 19 avril 2011 - 02:51 .

[darkshadow136]

dreepa wrote...

Hey,

I just came across this video:

http://www.ea.com/au...OPY1065140aRCRD

Maik Laidlaw talking about DA:O being not regular fantasy but being dark, being more challenging... being more "mature" and the combat is more "grown up"...

Somehow I think that he should ve rememberd his own words before making DA2 *G*

There is nothing more or less mature between the games of DAO and DA2 when compared. What made DAO more mature is when modders created new romance sequences and nude mods and such. The relationships and friendships conversations where mor immersive and detailed in DAO however in comparison to DA2.

[Rockpopple]

Fair enough, Seena.

I guess it's an old issue, since Origins came out so many years ago, and the modding community more than made up for that little quirk.

But for me I liked the way Dragon Age II did it. Passionate kiss - being led to the bed - unfocusing/fade to black - post-coitus conversation. Hey, that's a way to do it, at least.

[Seena]

Rockpopple wrote...

Fair enough, Seena.

I guess it's an old issue, since Origins came out so many years ago, and the modding community more than made up for that little quirk.

But for me I liked the way Dragon Age II did it. Passionate kiss - being led to the bed - unfocusing/fade to black - post-coitus conversation. Hey, that's a way to do it, at least.

I didn't have a gaming rig when DAO came out - so, I had to play it on the PS3 - so, no mods.

I agree - the sex scenes were handled better in DA2 -  except for the post coital cuddling as mentioned above. I mean *I* always get up in the middle of my post-coital glow just to put on underwear so I can cuddle.  I mean, we ARE only supposed to be nude when bathing and having sex, right?

Now I'll get back to lopping of heads in my replay. 

[Vicious]

Who the hell wants to look at low-res boobies. Have you SEEN the graphic engine we are using? It's years behind the times.

low-res nudity would just make the game a laughingstock. And yes, I am knocking the game's dated 7 year old engine and the fact that they 'stylized' the graphics to give it more longevity... doesn't work, still looks terrible.

I mean *I* always get up in the middle of my post-coital glow just to put on underwear so I can cuddle. I mean, we ARE only supposed to be nude when bathing and having sex, right?

lol epic post.

[Chromie]

Seena wrote...

Rockpopple wrote...

Fair enough, Seena.

I guess it's an old issue, since Origins came out so many years ago, and the modding community more than made up for that little quirk.

But for me I liked the way Dragon Age II did it. Passionate kiss - being led to the bed - unfocusing/fade to black - post-coitus conversation. Hey, that's a way to do it, at least.

I didn't have a gaming rig when DAO came out - so, I had to play it on the PS3 - so, no mods.

I agree - the sex scenes were handled better in DA2 -  except for the post coital cuddling as mentioned above. I mean *I* always get up in the middle of my post-coital glow just to put on underwear so I can cuddle.  I mean, we ARE only supposed to be nude when bathing and having sex, right?

Now I'll get back to lopping of heads in my replay. 

Only?...I do pretty stupid things while naked sometimes in public...

[Seena]

Ringo12 wrote...



Only?...I do pretty stupid things while naked sometimes in public...

LOL I guess ya missed the sarcasm

[Chromie]

Seena wrote...

Ringo12 wrote...



Only?...I do pretty stupid things while naked sometimes in public...

LOL I guess ya missed the sarcasm

Lol...I guess I did.

Still ME1 scenes > ME, Origins and Da2. Certain game coming out where they do it like people. Hint it's in my sig...not the dancing pokemon.

[Rockpopple]

They may "do it like people" but they're still cartoon characters. =P I've seen the facial models for TW2, and I prefer the faces in DA2, but that's neither here nor there.

[Chromie]

Rockpopple wrote...

They may "do it like people" but they're still cartoon characters. =P I've seen the facial models for TW2, and I prefer the faces in DA2, but that's neither here nor there.

*cough hentai cough* <---cartoon just not for kids...

But that's neither here nor there.

I do like the face texture of DA2. Witcher 2 and DA2 have very different art styles also.

[Rockpopple]

Just... no comment on hentai. lol

Yup. But I have seen the body models... particular the nude body model of that thar ginger chick in TW2, and I gotta say it looks good. It's too bad her face model and animation is so.... bleh.

Anyhoo, I'm sure people will enjoy it. =)

Modifié par Rockpopple, 19 avril 2011 - 03:19 .

[Chromie]

Rockpopple wrote...

Just... no comment on hentai. lol

=)

LOL.

I think Triss looks great. I found Isabella..unattractive she looks weird like to dark it looks like her skin color was painted on. Bioware never did a good job with darker skin tones imo.

"This must be remedied"

Modifié par Ringo12, 19 avril 2011 - 03:21 .

[Rockpopple]

I probably just prefer the art-style and facial animations in DA2... but I think we're hijacking this thread. lol. I'll just leave it at that.

[Chromie]

Rockpopple wrote...

I probably just prefer the art-style and facial animations in DA2... but I think we're hijacking this thread. lol. I'll just leave it at that.

What...the textures are sooo not mature >.>

Good save.

Modifié par Ringo12, 19 avril 2011 - 03:28 .

[Seena]

Rockpopple wrote...

They may "do it like people" but they're still cartoon characters. =P I've seen the facial models for TW2, and I prefer the faces in DA2, but that's neither here nor there.

You know - it's a tad off topic, but are they, really, only "cartoon characters"?

I'll admit - I came to actually feel certain ways about the characters (especially in DAO) - to care for them, even love them in a way.  (Which is one of the hallmarks of a good game imo).  It actually distressed me when I thought I was hurting feelings, or making them feel rejected.

So, if we are to assume that this is a goal of a good RPG (to elicit these sorts of emotions) - why shouldn't we expect the sex scenes to do so as well (and not just be gratuitous...)

For example, I don't know if it's the case when you romance Leliana as a man - but when you do as a woman (which I am btw), just as you kiss her the first time she makes this very soft sigh that is barely audible, and there's the "sound" of a kiss.  That stirred something in me - a response that was both emotional and physical (you know that little "ding" in your lower abdomen - dunno if men get them...).   That moment (if planned) struck me as brilliant - absolutely brilliant.  And I would have loved it if the sex scenes resulted in similar emotions - but they didn't.  Not even close. In fact - they were pretty much lifeless (except the foreplay with Isabela - which I loved...)

Modifié par Seena, 19 avril 2011 - 03:38 .

[Chromie]

Seena wrote...

Rockpopple wrote...

They may "do it like people" but they're still cartoon characters. =P I've seen the facial models for TW2, and I prefer the faces in DA2, but that's neither here nor there.

You know - it's a tad off topic, but are they, really, only "cartoon characters"?

I'll admit - I came to actually feel certain ways about the characters (especially in DAO) - to care for them, even love them in a way.  (Which is one of the hallmarks of a good game imo).  It actually distressed me when I thought I was hurting feelings, or making them feel rejected.

So, if we are to assume that this is a goal of a good RPG (to elicit these sorts of emotions) - why shouldn't we expect the sex scenes to do so as well (and not just be gratuitous...)

For example, I don't know if it's the case when you romance Leliana as a man - but when you do as a woman (which I am btw), just as you kiss her the first time she makes this very soft sigh that is barley audible, and there's the "sound" of a kiss.  That stirred something in me - a response that was both emotional and physical (you know that little "ding" in your lower abdomen - dunno if men get them...).   That moment (if planned) struck me as brilliant - absolutely brilliant.  And I would have loved it if the sex scenes resulted in similar emotions - but they didn't.  Not even close. In fact - they were pretty much lifeless (except the foreplay with Isabela - which I loved...)

Nope men don't get them..>.>

But the characters aren't one dimensional this isn't a shooter. They are more then just "cartoons" to me. We either hate them or like them. Some of us sympathize with them or pity them. Whatever our feelings are we all have some sort of emotion for each character. To me that makes them more then just cartoons. Bioware does do a goob making their characters come alive.

I like the DA2 companions more then Origins. Except Anders and Isabella. I switched them for Shale and Sten or at least a drunk Alistair.

[Rockpopple]

Oh I'm not denying that you can have an emotional response to cartoon characters. It happens all the time. Just about every Pixar movie does it.

I'm just saying watching cartoon characters have sex doesn't do anything for me. In fact, it has the opposite effect - it always looks silly to me.

But that's just me. I'm aware that many, many people feel differently. Again, I like the way Mass Effect 1 did it - enough sensuality and intimacy without showing too much which would have turned it into a laughing stock. To me, at least.