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So Who was before the Protheans?


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#26
KillerGuy3

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Paulinius wrote...

Also, the Leviathan of Dis (if it is real and if it's a Reaper, but since it's described as a genetically engineered spaceship, I'm thinking it's a Reaper) is a billion years old. If that is the oldest Reaper, that means there have been 20,000 extinction cycles. And some of the planets that were wiped out had species that didn't even develop space travel. Why would the Reapers destroy them as well?


Well if the Reapers destroyed none space-traveling race that means they need organics for things other then the Reaper factory, I guess it will be something important in Mass Effect 3? or maybe they just need more husks?

#27
PirateT138

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I think some of the charm of the ME story was always the ability to remind you how VAST the galaxy is and how LONG it's been going on without us.

The fact that there have been countless societies that have risen, flourished and then been extinguished and that they were using the same tech as you (Citadel) in the same time your species was little more than apes is humbling. The discovery of the Reaper Cycle in ME1 is definitely one of the cooler moments in playing video games for me.

The mysterious scars left behind from the struggle of previous species(Klendagon, the derelict reaper, the Leviathan of Dis) are all very cool, as well.

#28
88mphSlayer

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does it matter? they failed, that's all that matters

#29
KillerGuy3

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PirateT138 wrote...

I think some of the charm of the ME story was always the ability to remind you how VAST the galaxy is and how LONG it's been going on without us.

The fact that there have been countless societies that have risen, flourished and then been extinguished and that they were using the same tech as you (Citadel) in the same time your species was little more than apes is humbling. The discovery of the Reaper Cycle in ME1 is definitely one of the cooler moments in playing video games for me.

The mysterious scars left behind from the struggle of previous species(Klendagon, the derelict reaper, the Leviathan of Dis) are all very cool, as well.

True that moment was indeed awesome,  but now I kinda wanna see in ME3 more remnants of civilizations that existed before the Protheans.
Maybe some ancient civilization gave the Protheans the way to build a mini mass relay just like all the species are finding ancient Prothean tech. 

#30
Dave666

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88mphSlayer wrote...

does it matter? they failed, that's all that matters


The Protheans 'falied' and yet they are the reason why the races are still alive.  Without them the Reapers would have arrived quite some time ago. Who's to say that the reason that the Protheans were able to replicate Relay technology (on a small scale) wasn't due to a previous race leaving a 'cache' of knowledge behind for the Protheans to find?  

Ultimately we may end up owing the 'ones who failed' because they are the reason why we have a chance to succeed.

#31
88mphSlayer

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Dave666 wrote...

88mphSlayer wrote...

does it matter? they failed, that's all that matters


The Protheans 'falied' and yet they are the reason why the races are still alive.  Without them the Reapers would have arrived quite some time ago. Who's to say that the reason that the Protheans were able to replicate Relay technology (on a small scale) wasn't due to a previous race leaving a 'cache' of knowledge behind for the Protheans to find?  

Ultimately we may end up owing the 'ones who failed' because they are the reason why we have a chance to succeed.


the protheans succeeded in one way... vigil, the keepers, the beacons and the conduit

what about the guys who didn't get any warning off to the next generation? buncha losers

Modifié par 88mphSlayer, 18 avril 2011 - 01:22 .


#32
Dave666

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88mphSlayer wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

88mphSlayer wrote...

does it matter? they failed, that's all that matters


The Protheans 'falied' and yet they are the reason why the races are still alive.  Without them the Reapers would have arrived quite some time ago. Who's to say that the reason that the Protheans were able to replicate Relay technology (on a small scale) wasn't due to a previous race leaving a 'cache' of knowledge behind for the Protheans to find?  

Ultimately we may end up owing the 'ones who failed' because they are the reason why we have a chance to succeed.


the protheans succeeded in one way... vigil, the keepers, the beacons and the conduit

what about the guys who didn't get any warning off to the next generation? buncha losers


How do we know that none of the others managed to get a warning off?

For all we know 37 million years ago someone did manage to get a warning through to the next cycle's races and they were prepared (which might explain why the Reapers managed to lose track of the Derelict Reaper that Cerberus later found. Perhaps the Reapers, while victorious were suffering losses they'd never suffered before), they lost but managed to take out half of the Reapers, leaving us with less to face.  We just don't know. Dismissing past races when we know nothing about them just seems counter productive.

*Edit* Also, calling them a 'bunch of losers' seems a bit silly to me. We got lucky when we found the Prothean Beacon, it could very easilly have been damaged or run out of power and then where would we be?  Minding our own business then all of a sudden these Ships arrive and start decimating everything in sight and we don't know why and we can't stop them.  We don't know their tactics so we don't guard the Citadel, so the reapers get to it and shut down the Relays and we're dead.  We got lucky, nothing more, we certainly are no more skilled than the previous races.

Modifié par Dave666, 18 avril 2011 - 02:55 .


#33
Raven1015

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Yes, I much prefer the storyline that each civilization has built on the last, and the reason why we will ultimately succeed in beating the Reapers is because of this slow build over millions, possibly billions of years, not because we are somehow more special than everyone else that has come before, which is kind of silly

#34
handheld

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Handheld himself knows that before the protheans only helga the massage krogan and hamdheld himself existed. Handheld remembers the reapers coming to attack planet lovemachine the planet of handheld himself. through handhelds pure might and mass sex appeal handheld defeated the 1000 reapers. Soon after helga the massage krogan came and conquered handhelds planet.

handheld himself then went into exile for fear of helga. Also because handheld himself could not get the space babes off him. And debt collectors....handheld himself has expensive tastes.

#35
MajorStranger

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The Protoss, the Zerg and the Terran. No wonder they got their asses kicked, they couldn't even work together!

#36
Td1984

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Paulinius wrote...

Also, the Leviathan of Dis (if it is real and if it's a Reaper, but since it's described as a genetically engineered spaceship, I'm thinking it's a Reaper) is a billion years old. If that is the oldest Reaper, that means there have been 20,000 extinction cycles. And some of the planets that were wiped out had species that didn't even develop space travel. Why would the Reapers destroy them as well?


Simple. The Reapers only come every 50,000 years. They came across those civilizations and determined they were close to discovering Space Travel. Better to wipe them out early than wait for them to discover Space Travel, find out about the Reapers by traveling to other planets and giving them 50,000 years to come up with a way to destroy the Reapers.

#37
88mphSlayer

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Dave666 wrote...

88mphSlayer wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

88mphSlayer wrote...

does it matter? they failed, that's all that matters


The Protheans 'falied' and yet they are the reason why the races are still alive.  Without them the Reapers would have arrived quite some time ago. Who's to say that the reason that the Protheans were able to replicate Relay technology (on a small scale) wasn't due to a previous race leaving a 'cache' of knowledge behind for the Protheans to find?  

Ultimately we may end up owing the 'ones who failed' because they are the reason why we have a chance to succeed.


the protheans succeeded in one way... vigil, the keepers, the beacons and the conduit

what about the guys who didn't get any warning off to the next generation? buncha losers


How do we know that none of the others managed to get a warning off?

For all we know 37 million years ago someone did manage to get a warning through to the next cycle's races and they were prepared (which might explain why the Reapers managed to lose track of the Derelict Reaper that Cerberus later found. Perhaps the Reapers, while victorious were suffering losses they'd never suffered before), they lost but managed to take out half of the Reapers, leaving us with less to face.  We just don't know. Dismissing past races when we know nothing about them just seems counter productive.

*Edit* Also, calling them a 'bunch of losers' seems a bit silly to me. We got lucky when we found the Prothean Beacon, it could very easilly have been damaged or run out of power and then where would we be?  Minding our own business then all of a sudden these Ships arrive and start decimating everything in sight and we don't know why and we can't stop them.  We don't know their tactics so we don't guard the Citadel, so the reapers get to it and shut down the Relays and we're dead.  We got lucky, nothing more, we certainly are no more skilled than the previous races.


and we're a bunch of losers too at the end of the day if we fail

there's nothing romantic about being extinct

#38
Deltateam Elcor

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What confuses me is that where are the Rogue Reapers?

It seems impossible that a collective of minds would just work together with other species reapers completely without any thought of disagreement.

#39
armass

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Some poor guys that got reaped.

#40
J0HNL3I

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Forerunners

#41
armass

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Paulinius wrote...

There must have been many cycles, but it seems the Reapers only turned 3 species into Reapers. By that I mean there are the Sovereign-looking Reapers, the Harbinger-looking Reapers, and the Human-Reaper. So unless the Reapers "ascended" other species into a Sovereign or Harbinger shell, they have found very few species worthy of anything but extermination. Well, except for the Keepers and the Collectors.

Anyway, it will be interesting to see how and when the cycle began. At least once species had to have come up with a weapon to fight the Reapers. It may have been too little, too late, and maybe the weapon is useless since the Reapers probably found it and incorporated the tech into their own.

And although our galaxy is vast and there are a lot of resources, only a fraction of a percent of the galaxy's worlds can support life. Are they enough to have allowed so many extinction cycles? I don't really know or care. It's fine if Bioware took some artistic licence with that, since astrophysicists disagree on the number of life-supporting planets, let alone what is actually necessary for life to evolve.


One can only speculate at this point what the true number of planets in our galaxy that support life, have supported life or will support life in the future wil be. We only have one example in our current time, from where to draw conclusions. Life could evolve on drastically different environments as long as there is liquid water(or equivelent). Think of ammonia or silicon based life, or maybe something even weirder. Life tends to survive even in extremely harsh and hostile environments as studies on earth have shown, which means life is tenacious and given opportunity it will flourish.

Reapers all look cuddlefish like since that is only the outer shell, if you compare human reaper's size to the full reaper it doesnt match, so logically we can deduce that there will be same kind of shell, that would have been build around it. So more than 3 species have been turned into reapers, a lot more.

Modifié par armass, 18 avril 2011 - 01:15 .


#42
KillerGuy3

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Deltateam Elcor wrote...

What confuses me is that where are the Rogue Reapers?

It seems impossible that a collective of minds would just work together with other species reapers completely without any thought of disagreement.

That could be interesting in ME3, while Shepard is looking for allies in ME3 he sees two reapers fighting each other wow something like this will be awesome.

#43
RinpocheSchnozberry

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KillerGuy3 wrote...

Deltateam Elcor wrote...

What confuses me is that where are the Rogue Reapers?

It seems impossible that a collective of minds would just work together with other species reapers completely without any thought of disagreement.

That could be interesting in ME3, while Shepard is looking for allies in ME3 he sees two reapers fighting each other wow something like this will be awesome.


Personally, I would hate this ending.  I'd like to see the Council races defeat the Reapers some how... by building off of the leftover tech that the Protheans hid... which was built from tech the previous races hid.... which was....

Dividing the Reapers against themselves seems too...  I don't know... easy.

#44
GodWood

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We do know of quite a few actually.

(From the wiki:)

IDENTIFIED RACES

Arthenn
The arthenn flourished across multiple worlds in the Zelene system some 300,000 years ago. Their homeworld appears to have been Helyme, a dead planet where all complex life was wiped out in an unknown cataclysm. The third planet in the system, Epho, was mined or otherwise settled before these settlements were wiped out by kinetic impacts. The system's outer gas giant, Gaelon, was the location of a complex helium-3 mining infrastructure. Material debris suggests arthenni technology was equal to the current galactic state-of-the-art.

Inusannon
Little is known about the inusannon except that they warred with the thoi'han over colonization rights to the garden world Eingana 127,000 years ago. The wreckage of starships from both races litter the planet.

Thoi'han
Little is known about the thoi'han except that they warred with the inusannon over colonization rights to the garden world Eingana 127,000 years ago. The wreckage of starships from both races litter the planet.

Zeioph
The zeioph were an ancient spacefaring race that built millions of elaborate crypts on the surface of the planet Armeni. Archaeological excavations of these crypts have been prohibited by the Citadel Council law, which holds grave sites as sacrosanct.

UNIDENTIFIED RACES
Many ancient races discovered across the galaxy are even less understood. While the ruins and artifacts they left behind may hint at their biology or technological advancement, in many cases the origins and even names of these races are not known. These unidentified races are listed here by the worlds their ruins were discovered on.

433 Spidau
Charted in 2185 by a deep-space mining vessel exploring the Nubian Expanse, the planet 433 Spidau was formerly inhabited by a sapient race which destroyed itself through nuclear warfare around 1,000 years ago. Scans show the ruins of over ninety cities on the planet are still radioactive. Prior to this discovery, the contemporary galaxy knew of six other races which likewise perished in conflicts with nuclear weapons.

Anjea
Penetrating scans of the ice giant Anjea have revealed large numbers of hollow, unpowered objects, all with the same dimensions. "Sails" or "wings" appear to keep the objects aloft in Anjea's atmosphere. While the objects are too deep to be reached for study, a popular theory asserts that the objects are the "coffins" of an ancient race who laid their dead to rest in the gas giant.

Aphras
Aphras was once inhabited by a sapient terrestrial avian race in its Bronze Age, before a series of massive impacts vaporized habitation centers and killed off most flora and fauna. The only trace of contemporary life on the planet is that of single-celled organisms in its seas. Of note, Aphras' sister-garden world, Tosal Nym, was also devastated by impacts similar to those on Aphras; however, it is not believed that Tosal Nym was inhabited by anything more complex than invertebrate sea life.

Bothros
The remains of a primate-like spacefaring race have been found on the rock and ice world of Bothros. While the origins of this race are unknown, it has been confirmed that the race's habitation centers on Bothros were destroyed by orbital bombardments. Artifacts found on the planet range from melted metal fragments to the frozen remains of members of the race still wearing suits for extravehicular activity.

Chasca
An otherwise unremarkable semi-hospitable planet, Chasca possesses rings made of small pieces of synthetic material. The rings are nearly invisible from space, but from the ground they catch and scatter light in picturesque ways. It is unknown who made this example of "installation art", or why.

Cyllene
An automated helium-3 refueling station orbits the gas giant Cyllene. The Phi Clio system's remoteness from the nearest mass relay and the fuel station's archaic design imply that this system was once inhabited by a race who did not arrive through the relay but discovered it in independent FTL exploration. This same race may have built the geothermal and solar power stations found on the system's only other planet, Parnassus.

Etamis
Once a habitable garden world, Etamis is now completely barren, the oceans having dried up and the atmosphere lost. Regular crater patterns on the surface are evidence that Etamis was bombarded by dreadnought-class kinetic weapons. Relics found on Etamis show that an advanced spacefaring race lived there 20 to 40 million years ago. It is unclear if Etamis was the race's homeworld or a colony.

Jartar
The legendary "Leviathan of Dis", the corpse of a genetically-engineered living starship, was discovered by a batarian survey team in a crater on Jartar's surface. While nothing is known about the race that created the Leviathan, the ship itself was noted as being nearly one billion years old.

Joab
Joab was originally inhabited by a spacefaring primate-like race. This race was wiped out thousands of years ago when all civilization centers were targeted in a massive orbital bombardment. Dust from the blasts blotted out light from the planet's star, killing all photosynthetic life and the fauna dependent on it. Contemporary scholars only know what they do about Joab's race through the discovery of time capsules buried by the race far from their cities.

Junthor
Junthor was once a colony of an ancient spacefaring race. Ruins of this race's civilization, consisting of arcologies and other megastructures, still stand at a site near Junthor's equator. A pillar at the center of the ruins was covered in elaborate inscriptions which defied translation for centuries. When finally deciphered by asari linguists, the writing said only, "Walk among these works, and know our greatness." Crude scratches on the other side of pillar said, "Monsters from the id."

Gamayun
The outermost of the gas giant Gamayun's six moons, Gigula, is the site of the well-preserved wreckage of an ancient alien starship. Thus far, the only information released to the public about the starship is that its internal layout suggests that the race that built it was horizontally-oriented.

Mnemosyne
Orbiting Mnemosyne was a Derelict Reaper. Cerberus estimates that 37 million years ago, this Reaper was disabled by a mass accelerator round fired by a weapon built by an unknown spacefaring race.

Vecchio
The poorly preserved skeletal remains of an ancient humanoid race, along with primitive ceramic grave goods, were discovered at burial sites hidden in Vecchio's equatorial mountain ranges. Scholars question who once traveled to inhospitable Vecchio, since the nearest garden world, Volturno, has not given rise to intelligent life.

#45
Deltateam Elcor

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RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

KillerGuy3 wrote...

Deltateam Elcor wrote...

What confuses me is that where are the Rogue Reapers?

It seems impossible that a collective of minds would just work together with other species reapers completely without any thought of disagreement.

That could be interesting in ME3, while Shepard is looking for allies in ME3 he sees two reapers fighting each other wow something like this will be awesome.


Personally, I would hate this ending.  I'd like to see the Council races defeat the Reapers some how... by building off of the leftover tech that the Protheans hid... which was built from tech the previous races hid.... which was....

Dividing the Reapers against themselves seems too...  I don't know... easy.


I realise that and bioware could still only make the rogue faction tiny.

#46
HrzRanok

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The prothean VI said that the reepers reshape and strip planets during their purge.
Its possible they also sow some seeds in certain places to ensure the cycle continues. If they didn't and wiped out everything the cycle would end no more civ's would rise to advancement. So i assume that after they destroy they at least help out in some odd way that we do not understand yet, to get the ball rolling all over again.
They are destructors but they are also, reepers and cultivators. They grow a species, and then reep that species when it is ripe.

The reepers were obviously made by someone. Thats the obvious mystery.

but more so there are some things that I have noticed are missed.
- Had the protheans not interupted the initial signal, there would be no mass effect, no shepherd. Its also unclear as to when the signal was sent by sovereign, it could have been many decades ago or many centuries. Just something to think about.
- This is a situation that is unusual. the protheans sent an interupt signal that dissallowed travel through the citadel by the reepers. That has possibly never happened before. That is why this situation is unique. For the first time in this cycle the chance to break it forever is more possible than probably in the last 700 cycles. That's why there is a story here and it is very believable.

#47
xI extremist Ix

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If there has been at least 740 cycles than there are at least 740 Reapers.

#48
WizenSlinky0

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xI extremist Ix wrote...

If there has been at least 740 cycles than there are at least 740 Reapers.


Not true. There have been some taken out by past races, such as the derelict reaper.

We don't know how many have been taken out in previous cycles.

#49
xI extremist Ix

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WizenSlinky0 wrote...

xI extremist Ix wrote...

If there has been at least 740 cycles than there are at least 740 Reapers.


Not true. There have been some taken out by past races, such as the derelict reaper.

We don't know how many have been taken out in previous cycles.


Tww have been known, Soveriegn and the Derelict Reaper. That Reaper is estimated to be the 37,000,000 year old one. Given that than there are more than 740 cycles to be present. Therefore, it is likely that more than 740 Reapers exist to date and fewer have perished than created. If Reapers were being destroyed faster than they were being processed than the Reapers would have upped' their tech or reduce the cycle to the current 50,000 years. That being said it is logical to think that there are at least 740 Reapers because it is a safe number, but not as safe as at least one Reaper, Harby.

Besides, would have still complained if I said at least 738?

Modifié par xI extremist Ix, 15 mai 2011 - 09:41 .


#50
eternalnightmare13

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Operation_141 wrote...

In the first game Soverign and Vigil talked about the cycle. The Reapers come, wipe out all the civilizations, leave, and then reuturn when life starts back up again. Was it ever mentioned what happened before the Protheans were wiped out? Correct me if I am wrong but it had been 50,000 years since their existence so if there was a cycle there would have to be civilizations before the Protheans right?


Yo mama! 

Yo mama so old she dated a  Reaper!

Werd!