42 réponses à ce sujet

[Erika T]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Except for the fact that Hawke also couldn't know about the Joining. It's a Grey Warden secret.

I bet Flemeth knew though. 

[The Angry One]

If Flemeth ran around creating Grey Wardens it would probably get her unwanted attention from the actual Wardens.
And you know they'd just send Stroud to annoy her with his comedy mustache.

Modifié par The Angry One, 17 avril 2011 - 12:48 .

[jmbrosendo]

If you remotely remember Origins then you must know there are more ingredients needed than just the darkspawn blood, some form of preparation we never knew about but is referenced and the ingredients themselves aren't easy to come by.

For we spend an entire game without being able to recruit anyone into the Grey Wardens, and get a nice explanation about why we can't recruit anymore from Riordan.

If it was as simple as ingesting darkspawn blood, there be Grey Wardens sprouting like mushrooms all over the place during a Blight, and most of them coming out of the deep roads drinking beer by the barrel in peace times.

[Mnemnosyne]

TobiTobsen wrote...

Why exactly would anybody save Wesley? Mr. "The Order dictates!" would have arrested Bethany or Hawke as soon as they entered Kirkwall.

To be honest I can't even understand why they take Aveline along.  At least to Kirkwall.  Separating at Gwaren would make the most sense for the Hawke family if you ask me, since ok, she doesn't turn them in, but how the hell would they know that beforehand?  What reason do they have to believe that she's not going to turn them in to the templars first chance she gets?  Sure, she's reasonable when they're surrounded by darkspawn, cause she's not a complete idiot and realizes they can help her survive, but that doesn't mean that the Hawke family should consider her trustworthy.

Sidney wrote...

Death and/or dying in general in these
games makes no sense as something to be feared. Magic can heal and magic
can resurrect - I mean in Awakenings a guy dies from a flippin' broken
leg desipte me having a both spells and potions to solve his problem..
You'd think Sebastian's family would have access tosomeone who could
raise the dead then that whole thing goes away.

The awakening dying of a broken leg was retarded, yes.  But your point about Sebastian's family is exactly why they wrote it into the cardinal rules of magic that you cannot ever resurrect anyone once they're actually dead, period.  Also same reason they prohibited teleporting - those two abilities are some of the worst story-breaking abilities in the history of storytelling.

Modifié par Koyasha, 17 avril 2011 - 01:10 .

[Augustei]

jds1bio wrote...

When escaping Lothering, I picked up a vial of Darkspawn Blood. 

When we encountered Flemeth, they gave Wesley a mercy killing while the vial sat in the junk drawer. 

He might have died anyway, but perhaps he could have survived the Joining.  But no one knew anything about the ritual.  Oh cruel twist of fate!

Apparently they really know how to keep a secret in Thedas.

Flemeth knew of the ritual as she was the one to teach it to the original wardens, you were still missing the blood of an archdemon and some lyrium however

Modifié par XxDeonxX, 17 avril 2011 - 01:55 .

[jds1bio]

Well, I had lyrium potion, so perhaps that could have counted. And the description on the vial never really said which darkspawn it came from. There's a chance it could have been from the archdemon (much like in Dumb and Dumber when Jim Carrey asks Lauren Holly what the chances are that she'll go out on a date with him).

[Maria Caliban]

Camenae wrote...

Yeah well of course I know it HAS to be incurable for plot purposes...just seems to me that when magical healing is involved, you wouldn't be in the same situation as us mere mortals back in the Dark Ages when consumption was an "incurable" disease.

There are also mundane diseases and illnesses in Thedas that can't be cured by magic.

[frustratemyself]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Camenae wrote...

Yeah well of course I know it HAS to be incurable for plot purposes...just seems to me that when magical healing is involved, you wouldn't be in the same situation as us mere mortals back in the Dark Ages when consumption was an "incurable" disease.

There are also mundane diseases and illnesses in Thedas that can't be cured by magic.

Unless you have some of those flowers - white with a red centre - that the kennel master used as Ostegar to cure the sick Mabari.

[dgcatanisiri]

Koyasha wrote...

TobiTobsen wrote...

Why exactly would anybody save Wesley? Mr. "The Order dictates!" would have arrested Bethany or Hawke as soon as they entered Kirkwall.

To be honest I can't even understand why they take Aveline along.  At least to Kirkwall.  Separating at Gwaren would make the most sense for the Hawke family if you ask me, since ok, she doesn't turn them in, but how the hell would they know that beforehand?  What reason do they have to believe that she's not going to turn them in to the templars first chance she gets?  Sure, she's reasonable when they're surrounded by darkspawn, cause she's not a complete idiot and realizes they can help her survive, but that doesn't mean that the Hawke family should consider her trustworthy.

Well, the first point in her favor is that she's the one to convince Wesley that 'the order dictates' should be silenced while they're running for their lives. That puts her a notch above Wesley in my book - she realizes that there's a time and a place for everything, and a Blight is not the time to worry about apostates. And it may have been less 'taking Aveline along' as she had no where else to go - it could easily have been that the only ship available was going to Kirkwall. And we don't know how long it took for them to reach Gwaren, so she may have smoothed things over with the Hawkes during that time, or during the boat ride.

[morbusswg]

I liked to imagine Avaline got her muscles from hauling around a dead Wesley, waiting to find the opportune time to ask Mage Hawke if she knew any necromancy spells. It would have even made the plot more interesting if when they barged in on that Necromancer with Hawke's mom, if he had looked at Avaline like her new her for a second, and you see Avaline wave her hand and shake her head out of the corner of your eye like "shh, I don't know you"....

[Virginian]

XxDeonxX wrote...

jds1bio wrote...

When escaping Lothering, I picked up a vial of Darkspawn Blood. 

When we encountered Flemeth, they gave Wesley a mercy killing while the vial sat in the junk drawer. 

He might have died anyway, but perhaps he could have survived the Joining.  But no one knew anything about the ritual.  Oh cruel twist of fate!

Apparently they really know how to keep a secret in Thedas.

Flemeth knew of the ritual as she was the one to teach it to the original wardens, you were still missing the blood of an archdemon and some lyrium however

Where was it said she taught the original Wardens the ritual to make them Wardens?

[Herr Uhl]

Virginian wrote...

XxDeonxX wrote...

Flemeth knew of the ritual as she was the one to teach it to the original wardens, you were still missing the blood of an archdemon and some lyrium however

Where was it said she taught the original Wardens the ritual to make them Wardens?

Nowhere.

[TobiTobsen]

dgcatanisiri wrote...

Koyasha wrote...

TobiTobsen wrote...

Why exactly would anybody save Wesley? Mr. "The Order dictates!" would have arrested Bethany or Hawke as soon as they entered Kirkwall.

To be honest I can't even understand why they take Aveline along.  At least to Kirkwall.  Separating at Gwaren would make the most sense for the Hawke family if you ask me, since ok, she doesn't turn them in, but how the hell would they know that beforehand?  What reason do they have to believe that she's not going to turn them in to the templars first chance she gets?  Sure, she's reasonable when they're surrounded by darkspawn, cause she's not a complete idiot and realizes they can help her survive, but that doesn't mean that the Hawke family should consider her trustworthy.

Well, the first point in her favor is that she's the one to convince Wesley that 'the order dictates' should be silenced while they're running for their lives. That puts her a notch above Wesley in my book - she realizes that there's a time and a place for everything, and a Blight is not the time to worry about apostates. And it may have been less 'taking Aveline along' as she had no where else to go - it could easily have been that the only ship available was going to Kirkwall. And we don't know how long it took for them to reach Gwaren, so she may have smoothed things over with the Hawkes during that time, or during the boat ride.

And then she joins the guard, is only good in keeping the moral up and the Hawkes have to pay the debt, including hers, with the smugglers/mercenaries. She probably ratted Bethany out to the templars, after Beth asked her about informations about the circle, because "it's better for her" or stuff like that. Just like she declined Carvers application as a guardsmen.

The longer I think about Aveline, the less I like her.

[LightningSamus]

jds1bio wrote...

When escaping Lothering, I picked up a vial of Darkspawn Blood. 

When we encountered Flemeth, they gave Wesley a mercy killing while the vial sat in the junk drawer. 

He might have died anyway, but perhaps he could have survived the Joining.  But no one knew anything about the ritual.  Oh cruel twist of fate!

Apparently they really know how to keep a secret in Thedas.

Wrong, you need Lyrium and drop of archdemon blood and you don't know how to do the joining, if it was just darkspawn blood alone it would be stupid.

[Rifneno]

LightningSamus wrote...

jds1bio wrote...

When escaping Lothering, I picked up a vial of Darkspawn Blood. 

When we encountered Flemeth, they gave Wesley a mercy killing while the vial sat in the junk drawer. 

He might have died anyway, but perhaps he could have survived the Joining.  But no one knew anything about the ritual.  Oh cruel twist of fate!

Apparently they really know how to keep a secret in Thedas.

Wrong, you need Lyrium and drop of archdemon blood and you don't know how to do the joining, if it was just darkspawn blood alone it would be stupid.

Hmm.  If you need archdemon blood for the ritual... how did they make the first grey wardens to kill the first archdemon?

....  That must have been extremely unpleasant.

[LightningSamus]

Rifneno wrote...

LightningSamus wrote...

jds1bio wrote...

When escaping Lothering, I picked up a vial of Darkspawn Blood. 

When we encountered Flemeth, they gave Wesley a mercy killing while the vial sat in the junk drawer. 

He might have died anyway, but perhaps he could have survived the Joining.  But no one knew anything about the ritual.  Oh cruel twist of fate!

Apparently they really know how to keep a secret in Thedas.

Wrong, you need Lyrium and drop of archdemon blood and you don't know how to do the joining, if it was just darkspawn blood alone it would be stupid.

Hmm.  If you need archdemon blood for the ritual... how did they make the first grey wardens to kill the first archdemon?

....  That must have been extremely unpleasant.

I don't know about that but i know they all died, maybe flemeth was invoveld but i remember Riordan saying they keep Archdemon blood for the joining to make Grey Wardens.

[In Exile]

Rifneno wrote.

Hmm.  If you need archdemon blood for the ritual... how did they make the first grey wardens to kill the first archdemon?

....  That must have been extremely unpleasant.

They killed the archdemon. The problem with the first blight wasn't that Dumat couldn't be killed, it's that Dumat wouldn't stay dead.

[Fast Jimmy]

In Exile wrote...

Rifneno wrote.

Hmm.  If you need archdemon blood for the ritual... how did they make the first grey wardens to kill the first archdemon?

....  That must have been extremely unpleasant.

They killed the archdemon. The problem with the first blight wasn't that Dumat couldn't be killed, it's that Dumat wouldn't stay dead.

Correct. They said that Dumat was killed multiple times over the almost 100 years of the first Blight, but that he would pass to the nearest darkspawn and be reborn. But his giant dragon corpse would still be lying right there on the ground. They just fished together some of that blood, add a pinch of lyrium, some magical handwave sauce... and pow! Instant Grey Warden drink.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 18 avril 2011 - 12:19 .