96 réponses à ce sujet

[Rexiselic]

Sereda Aeducan: "Alright, Trian. I surrender."

Scout: "A warrior does not die meekly! Attack!"

*Sereda Aeducan stabs scout in the throat*


Alternatively

If I had just found Trian’s dead body and was then shortly found by my father King Endrin, my brother Bhelen, and the others I would not have looked like I had just committed the deed. I would be holding his body, crying and wailing, “WHY TRIAN?! WHY?!”

i.e not standing silently over his body with a bloodied sword and an expression of indifference on my face

Plaintiff wrote...

I can't comprehend how Hawke, any Hawke can side with the templars in Act 3 or in any other quest where it's an option. He's from a family of apostates, might be an apostate himself, and has spent his whole life on the run, defending himself and/or his sister from the templars, doing everything they can to avoid the circle. But as soon as he gets to Kirkwall, he randomly decides the templars "aren't so bad", despite all evidence to the contrary?

Because Hawke has never murdered any innocent people, turned to blood magic, or had any dealings with demons before arriving in Kirkwall. The fact that he is a mage or related to mages does suggest he would have sympathy for mages, but there are more than enough events that occur in Act 1 and Act 2 that would cause Hawke to decide that the murderous blood mages and abominations in Kirkwall are in fact an issue and that the templars have an important job to do.

Modifié par Rexiselic, 17 avril 2011 - 04:09 .

[bleetman]

All mages are open to corruption, we must remain ever vigilant! Trust not in the innocent face of the mage, for behind it lurks a demon! The Order dict- oh, hey Hawke. How's it going? Listen, I know you're a mage and all, but since you're champion I'll let it slide. Be a good lass and track down these wicked apostates for me, would you?

...

[Kimberly Shaw]

What about when you rescue Bethany from the Bloodmage/Templar alliance in Act 3 and DON'T KEEP HER WITH YOU BUT SEND HER BACK TO THE CIRCLE INEXPLICABLY??????

That was the biggest WTF moment in my playthrough. No reason at all that Hawke would let his sister go back after rescueing her. Serious fail.

[Augustei]

bleetman wrote...

All mages are open to corruption, we must remain ever vigilant! Trust not in the innocent face of the mage, for behind it lurks a demon! The Order dict- oh, hey Hawke. How's it going? Listen, I know you're a mage and all, but since you're champion I'll let it slide. Be a good lass and track down these wicked apostates for me, would you?

...

No Handweave needed there, she has you on a leash.. If you say no then suddenly the many thousands of templars in Kirkwall wont be looking at you so friendly and before you know it, your hawke is in the gallows and probably tranquil for resisting

[bleetman]

XxDeonxX wrote...

No Handweave needed there, she has you on a leash.. If you say no then suddenly the many thousands of templars in Kirkwall wont be looking at you so friendly and before you know it, your hawke is in the gallows and probably tranquil for resisting

Perhaps, but why bother with a leash at all? Her justification is that you do good for the city or somesuch, but it just doesn't fit her character - one that considers every mage a potential danger - whatsoever.

Not to mention that I did precisely that. I said no. I refused to help her, openly spoke up against her and helped mages flee the circle. Her response consisted of shouting, arm waving, and standing to one side as I walk into the Gallows to help them defend against the annulment.

Modifié par bleetman, 17 avril 2011 - 06:17 .

[lazuli]

I just couldn't accept my character working with Meredith at the end. By that point, I wanted to stick a knife in her, not help her hunt down mages.

[Rifneno]

lazuli wrote...

I just couldn't accept my character working with Meredith at the end. By that point, I wanted to stick a knife in her, not help her hunt down mages.

Actually even as total pro-mage I can see that quest making sense.  Mages don't deserve their freedom if they're going to turn a blind eye to mages that are a danger to the community.  I always push Meredith's buttons but ultimately agree to check up on the 3 escapees.  Not necessarily recapture them for her, but check to see if they're planning to do something incredibly stupid like murder their wife so they can use her blood for REAL ULTIMATE NINJA ELVEN POWER!

[Sarcastic Tasha]

It annoyed me that my blood mage Hawke would say things that implied she thought blood magic was bad. I could convinced myself it was just Hawke trying not to out herself as a blood mage but why would she bother when Templars seem unable to recognise blood magic when they see it.

I wanted Hawke to punch Anders every time he was cruel to Merrill in banter, I also would have expected Varric or Isabela to say something if they were in the party.

[jussyr]

Merrill.


Merrill, Merrill, Merrill.


I played a Templar-supporter, who was capable of being compassionate and forgiving towards mages if they showed that they intended to repent of past idiocies, but had absolutely zero tolerance for blood magic. And not only do I not immediately stab Merrill after she uses blood magic, but I go ahead with the 'take her along with you' thing Marethari tricked me into... and then *leave her* alone in the middle of the Alienage to summon demons or sacrifice people in evil blood magic rituals or Maker knows what other evil demony things. And then later on she straight up betrays me in the Fade when a demon offers her power, and I *still* can't kill her. I even tell her that this is her last chance. No! No last chance! You used up your only chance when you used blood magic on that barrier 4 years ago, Merrill!


aaaargh

[Ryzaki]

When I couldn't turn around and let the templars and mages kill each other.

I was a rogue. I had jack squat to do with the incident. Anders is standing right there.

Why on earth am I forced to pick a side?

[Rifneno]

Ryzaki wrote...

When I couldn't turn around and let the templars and mages kill each other.

I was a rogue. I had jack squat to do with the incident. Anders is standing right there.

Why on earth am I forced to pick a side?

Well, sticking one's head in the sand and pretending to ignore the problem didn't work so well for Elthina...  

[Ryzaki]

Rifneno wrote...
Well, sticking one's head in the sand and pretending to ignore the problem didn't work so well for Elthina...  

You mean an abomination that needed to be put down long ago decided to kill her? Yeah it didn't work out well for her because of that. But she was warned constantly.

Hawke recieved no such warnings. Not to mention Hawke has no duty to the Chantry (unlike Elthina) and wasn't blindly ignoring his duties (he had none). So yeah. The situations aren't comparable. Elthina was ignoring her job. Hawke by walking away is remaining neutral. (As he *should*). The annullment is a Templar matter. Hawke's not a templar.

[Rifneno]

Ryzaki wrote...

Rifneno wrote...
Well, sticking one's head in the sand and pretending to ignore the problem didn't work so well for Elthina...  

You mean an abomination that needed to be put down long ago decided to kill her? Yeah it didn't work out well for her because of that. But she was warned constantly.

Hawke recieved no such warnings. Not to mention Hawke has no duty to the Chantry (unlike Elthina) and wasn't blindly ignoring his duties (he had none). So yeah. The situations aren't comparable. Elthina was ignoring her job. Hawke by walking away is remaining neutral. (As he *should*). The annullment is a Templar matter. Hawke's not a templar.

I was just being a smartass.  But really, I don't understand why people want to play a character who doesn't do anything about what's going on.  If you want to do that, there's plenty of real world to ignore bloody conflicts in.  The game is made with the assumption that Hawke will do what they think is right.  But what they think is right is up to the player within reasonable limits.  Taking the most powerful warrior (err, not as in class, as in person who fights) away from the Annulment conflict will without a doubt lead to the conflict lasting longer and more innocents being killed in the crossfire.  Whether you're playing a pure hero with grand morals or a red-egade, either way the wisest course of action is try and minimize the chaos.

[chelseaisthepan]

Whenever someone brought up one of my dead family members (Carver, Meredith, maybe some others) as a personal attack to get me to side with them (why mages are dangerous, blah, blah) I was surprised I didn't get an option to deck them in the face.

It's what I would do. Yes, even to my own brother! Little ****** would deserve it.

Modifié par chelseaisthepan, 17 avril 2011 - 10:07 .

[Deztyn]

Maria Caliban wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

fusilero1 wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

I can't comprehend how Hawke, any Hawke can side with the templars in Act 3 or in any other quest where it's an option. He's from a family of apostates, might be an apostate himself, and has spent his whole life on the run, defending himself and/or his sister from the templars, doing everything they can to avoid the circle. But as soon as he gets to Kirkwall, he randomly decides the templars "aren't so bad", despite all evidence to the contrary?

Possibly the same reason that Carver sides with the Templars.

Which is what?

He's a ******.

"My brother/sister is a mage and makes me feel inadequate so I'm going to join a group that hunts down, imprisons, and murders mages."

Or, "Wow all these crazy mages running around have shown me that mages who are not my family are really, really dangerous, and that Maurevar guy was kind of cool. I want to be just like him when I grow up."

[Rifneno]

chelseaisthepan wrote...

Whenever someone brought up one of my dead family members (Carver, Meredith, maybe some others) as a personal attack to get me to side with them (why mages are dangerous, blah, blah) I was surprised I didn't get an option to deck them in the face.

It's what I would do. Yes, even to my own brother! Little ****** would deserve it.

Oh God, I agree so much.  Every last time anyone did that, I wanted a special dialogue option marked "I'm tired of your disingenuous assertions!"

Meredith does it in the opening conversation of Act III if you give her a chance to explain her extremist methods.  Carver does it lots of times.  Fenris does it, but when talking to Anders so I'm not sure if it counts.  I can't remember any more off-hand but it was crazy how many times people tried to use their deaths as a weapon.

A similar moment when if Hawke says he doesn't want to do Meredith's bidding in Act III. Meredith mentions Hawke's sister is in the Circle, obviously implying "do as I say or your sister will regret it."  I was in disbelief that there wasn't a single really aggressive response to that.  I was waiting for Hawke to say "If you touch my sister...", then take a step closer to Meredith and whisper calmly but with conviction in her ear, "I'll kill you."  But I guess we can't have a tense scene with Meredith until the end.  =/

[Wulfram]

bleetman wrote...

Perhaps, but why bother with a leash at all? Her justification is that you do good for the city or somesuch, but it just doesn't fit her character - one that considers every mage a potential danger - whatsoever.

Not to mention that I did precisely that. I said no. I refused to help her, openly spoke up against her and helped mages flee the circle. Her response consisted of shouting, arm waving, and standing to one side as I walk into the Gallows to help them defend against the annulment.

Killing such a popular figure would shatter her rule over Kirkwall - practically every noble in the city owes you their lives, and they're far from supportive of Meredith's continued control of the city as it is.

[Rifneno]

Wulfram wrote...

bleetman wrote...

Perhaps, but why bother with a leash at all? Her justification is that you do good for the city or somesuch, but it just doesn't fit her character - one that considers every mage a potential danger - whatsoever.

Not to mention that I did precisely that. I said no. I refused to help her, openly spoke up against her and helped mages flee the circle. Her response consisted of shouting, arm waving, and standing to one side as I walk into the Gallows to help them defend against the annulment.

Killing such a popular figure would shatter her rule over Kirkwall - practically every noble in the city owes you their lives, and they're far from supportive of Meredith's continued control of the city as it is.

This is true.  But there isn't always such justification for the templars.  Cullen openly acknowledges Anders as a mage in Act II, before Hawke saves the city from the qunari.  Apparently he isn't willing to cross Hawke there, but he was willing to cross Hawke to apprehend Bethany at the tail end of Act I.  What's Hawke done in the meantime?  Nothing really, save for selling some valuables plundered from the Deep Roads.  It can't be because Hawke has money and a position, as Emile proves that's no protection from the templars.  Even Connor isn't immune to being taken to the Circle and his family is much more powerful in a country with a Circle that's not nearly as harsh.

[sonoko]

Rifneno wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

bleetman wrote...

Perhaps, but why bother with a leash at all? Her justification is that you do good for the city or somesuch, but it just doesn't fit her character - one that considers every mage a potential danger - whatsoever.

Not to mention that I did precisely that. I said no. I refused to help her, openly spoke up against her and helped mages flee the circle. Her response consisted of shouting, arm waving, and standing to one side as I walk into the Gallows to help them defend against the annulment.

Killing such a popular figure would shatter her rule over Kirkwall - practically every noble in the city owes you their lives, and they're far from supportive of Meredith's continued control of the city as it is.

This is true.  But there isn't always such justification for the templars.  Cullen openly acknowledges Anders as a mage in Act II, before Hawke saves the city from the qunari.  Apparently he isn't willing to cross Hawke there, but he was willing to cross Hawke to apprehend Bethany at the tail end of Act I.  What's Hawke done in the meantime?  Nothing really, save for selling some valuables plundered from the Deep Roads.  It can't be because Hawke has money and a position, as Emile proves that's no protection from the templars.  Even Connor isn't immune to being taken to the Circle and his family is much more powerful in a country with a Circle that's not nearly as harsh.

In one cutscene Anders is shown to heal seneshal Bran from STD. So perhaps Anders' connections with the nobility and knowlege of their dirty secrets are somehow protecting him from templars?  
Or may be Anders and Cullen were close friends back in Ferelden?
  It's the only explanations I can imagine why Cullen doesn't try to bring Anders to Circle. 

[Rifneno]

sonoko wrote...
In one cutscene Anders is shown to heal seneshal Bran from STD. So perhaps Anders' connections with the nobility and knowlege of their dirty secrets are somehow protecting him from templars?  
Or may be Anders and Cullen were close friends back in Ferelden?
  It's the only explanations I can imagine why Cullen doesn't try to bring Anders to Circle. 

The templars in charge of Kirkwall, not the nobility.  Unfortunately.  That's how the previous Viscount for thrown from power, he opposed the templars and they had him taken care of.  Aveline's Act III companion quest pretty much revolves around how the templars hold so much political power.  Although in Cullen's defense (there's something you won't hear me say much), he actively opposes the fact the templars are doing so.  His doubts about Meredith actually start because of that, and he wonders aloud "am I working for the templars now, or Meredith?  they don't seem to be the same thing anymore."

Cullen and Anders being friends from Ferelden is possible though.  That's a good idea.  Cullen, before Uldred's revolt, was very sympathetic toward mages and while Anders pre-Justice tried to escape an average of 7 times a day, he was a nice and good humored guy.

[Deztyn]

I just assumed Cullen knew Anders was warden, and didn't know that he wasn't an active member of the order.

Modifié par Deztyn, 17 avril 2011 - 11:19 .

[Plaintiff]

IanPolaris wrote...

fusilero1 wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

I can't comprehend how Hawke, any Hawke can side with the templars in Act 3 or in any other quest where it's an option. He's from a family of apostates, might be an apostate himself, and has spent his whole life on the run, defending himself and/or his sister from the templars, doing everything they can to avoid the circle. But as soon as he gets to Kirkwall, he randomly decides the templars "aren't so bad", despite all evidence to the contrary?

Possibly the same reason that Carver sides with the Templars.

Which is what?  I can't see any good reason why Carver would join the Templars especially when it later becomes clear he lied about his apostate brother/sister to do so (a point that Meridith reminds him of in Act 3).

-Polaris

Carver strikes me as a very pettty person. I imagine he joined the Templars largely out of spite. He wanted to make a name for himself, which he could've done in several different ways, but he picked the one that he thought would hurt his family and his brother the most because he's spent his whole life being resentful of the admiration Hawke supposedly received from everyone they knew.

[Fast Jimmy]

Rifneno wrote...

"Hmm.  This evidence is disturbing to say the least.  It's like Kirkwall is damned.  Literally.  This entire city is a massive Tevinter blood rune designed to...  who knows?  Armageddon?  Even if I can't prove these notes are reliable, all the Chantry or Circle would have to do is compare the number of demonic happenings here to any other Circle in Thedas.  This place is a powder keg waiting to blow.  I must warn someone!

...

Nah, it's been a long day.  I'll just see how this plays out." 

Ha! This, a thousand times over. For all of us Codex readers who thought that they were going to do something with Kirkwall as a location, other than just being a random city in Thedas for all we knew... NOPE!

Pay no attention to the demons, blood mages, and Tevinter influences behind the curtain!

[LobselVith8]

Super_Fr33k wrote...

"The story made me do it" is one of those things that is such a fundamental limitation of CRPGs, it's gotten hard for me to identify all the times it occurs... I mean, no scripted experience can predict or humor every possible choice a person can make.

But just handing Bethany over to the Templars is certainly one thing I would've put up a fight over, if the game had let me.

I agree. Hawke just killed an ancient rock wraith, and you're telling me Hawke isn't going to put up a fight with two templars? I'd understand if it was an army of templars like something out of the end of Scarface, but two? Why not pull his aerial knife trick via Wayward Son?

Super_Fr33k wrote...

But here's a bigger point: Once Hawke makes it rich, it can easily become implausible for him to remain in Kirkwall. The expedition gives him enough treasure to leap back into the city's upper class. This means he has enough money to just move somewhere else entirely. Once Qunari land, and once it seems mages and Templars are warring, why not go somewhere else?

I can understand that if Hawke is an illegal mage and Carver is his brother (especially when he becomes a templar), but I can see why a rogue Hawke would stay in Kirkwall because of Bethany if she's in the Circle of Kirkwall.

[frustratemyself]

Plaintiff wrote...

Carver strikes me as a very pettty person. I imagine he joined the Templars largely out of spite. He wanted to make a name for himself, which he could've done in several different ways, but he picked the one that he thought would hurt his family and his brother the most because he's spent his whole life being resentful of the admiration Hawke supposedly received from everyone they knew.

Agreed. Carver does reacte quite badly when you leave him behind instead of taking him to the Deep Roads, for him it may have been a final straw moment where he went for maximum emtional damage in his reaction.
Also in the quest with the missing Templar recruits if you take him to the blood mage sanctuary he says that he never saw a reason to be afraid of mages before but seeing what happened there he was able to see the Templar side of things.

With Bethany it was a headshake moment when you politely step aside and let Cullen drag away your sister. There should have been more of a reaction there. That said Bethany does seem to play devils advocate a bit.
She doesn't want to be locked up just for being who & what she is but she does also state at one point during party banter (I think with Isabela) that if she could have anything she wanted she would be "normal." I don't agree with letting her be dragged meekly off to the Circle but she regrets that her family has been on the run because of her and seems to think at times that she may be better off in the Circle with the rest of her village.