96 réponses à ce sujet

[Kimberly Shaw]

Can anyone give me a good reason Hawke would let Bethany be dragged off a second time after she is kidnapped and you rescue her in Act 3? By then Hawke is a FORCE to be reckoned with and Meredith needs you, why would you let anyone take Bethany to the circle?

[Rifneno]

Another one, and I know "why" this one is a plot no-no but it's still kind of nonsensical:  When Meredith calls for the RoA, there's only her, Orsino, Hawke, and a few of their respective underlings.  My initial reaction is this:  If no templar walks away from there alive, who's to say a RoA was ever called?  The mages sure as hell aren't going to go back and report it.  Generally speaking, Hawke's group won't either.  If any of them want to try (that means you, Sebastian!) they die too.  There's a lot fewer deaths if Meredith just disappears because "she was in the Chantry too" than if you have to fight off the RoA.

[Kimberly Shaw]

Good call Rifneno. It would have been easy to take her and a few Templars out right there (we don't know about the McGuffin).

Also had to WTF when everyone walked away from Anders and left the Champion with him instead of killing him then and there or at least attacking him. Made no sense.

[Deztyn]

Kimberly Shaw wrote...

Can anyone give me a good reason Hawke would let Bethany be dragged off a second time after she is kidnapped and you rescue her in Act 3? By then Hawke is a FORCE to be reckoned with and Meredith needs you, why would you let anyone take Bethany to the circle?

You know, the more I think about it the more I think Bethany should have just chosen to go to the Circle. It wouldn't have been out of character, her codex entries indicates she's thought about it. She feels like a burden to her family and thinks they're suffering because of her. She wants to be around other mages, and she also supports the circle once she's there. It would have made the players feel less railroaded, and added another dimension to the Mages vs. Templars conflict. Win-win.

[Foolsfolly]

Deztyn, she even tells Aveline in party banter to find information on the Circle. She's clearly interested in it (she wants to know how bad it is, I think). She really should have chosen to leave to the Circle and not get found out and dragged there.

And regardless we should have had more contact with the siblings after Act 1.

[devilsgrin]

bleetman wrote...

XxDeonxX wrote...

No Handweave needed there, she has you on a leash.. If you say no then suddenly the many thousands of templars in Kirkwall wont be looking at you so friendly and before you know it, your hawke is in the gallows and probably tranquil for resisting

Perhaps, but why bother with a leash at all? Her justification is that you do good for the city or somesuch, but it just doesn't fit her character - one that considers every mage a potential danger - whatsoever.

Not to mention that I did precisely that. I said no. I refused to help her, openly spoke up against her and helped mages flee the circle. Her response consisted of shouting, arm waving, and standing to one side as I walk into the Gallows to help them defend against the annulment.

I find Meredith to be one of the most interesting characters in the entire game. On the surface she's a raving anti-mage zealot, the complete antithesis of Greagoir, but once you read into the game a bit more, layers come into focus.
She's definitely blinded by her hatred of Blood Magic, and unfortunately, Kirkwall seeths with blood mages.
I can completely see her letting the actions of MageHawke slide. Even if you play as a complete ****, you ultimately are working in Kirkwall's favour. Whether your motivations are selfish or not. As you progress, you actually function MUCH like a Templar, and far more effectively thats for sure. The number of blood mages hawke kills is staggering.
The fact she considers EVERY mage a danger is not in question. But, judging by her rejection of the Tranquil Solution, she clearly sees that some can be a manageable danger. Considering the skills available to a Templar, and the obvious strength with which she herself uses them (see: her depowering of the Saarebas), i can completely see her justification of letting Hawke slide.
Once the Idol/Sword get to her, she goes downhill into complete lunacy, so her Act 3 stance becomes less forgiving, but even she could not openly move against the Champion without more evidence than "she a mage."

Once Hawke moves to Hightown, she/he is completely in the public eye, and taking her/him down would not be too difficult (well theoretically to those underestimating MageHawke's powers).

[Mnemnosyne]

I've got to say I'm liking these.  I'm not going to comment too much, but I'm liking hearing other people's things we can't get past.

Although I should note that I intended it to mean about your character, not things you don't believe other characters would have done.

I have to agree with Rifneno above - the point where you just let Meredith (or Orsino, for that matter) walk away is another big one, although I could get past it by saying that someone covered their escape.  That's exactly what should have been shown - a few templars or a few mages cover Meredith/Orsino as they flee back to rally their side.  We wouldn't have this 'buh...why am I letting them walk away?'  But then see, this is an example of something I can handwave by imagining a slightly different situation than what we're actually presented.

On the topic of the evidence from the Band of Three, I can also very much imagine that I brought it to the attention of Elthina and Meredith and of course they ignored it, didn't believe it, or didn't care (or in Elthina's case comment on how unfortunate that is, but of course it will be resolved in its own time at the Maker's will...****).

[Deztyn]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Deztyn, she even tells Aveline in party banter to find information on the Circle. She's clearly interested in it (she wants to know how bad it is, I think). She really should have chosen to leave to the Circle and not get found out and dragged there.

And regardless we should have had more contact with the siblings after Act 1.

Yeah, if we were kept away because of the rules that would have been fine, but it was ridiculous that Leandra and Gamlen could visit but we couldn't. Not even to tell her about our mother's death.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Not being able to stand your ground at the end instead of joining either faction annoys me about as much as not being able to take the throne for yourself as a Cousland back in Origins: the entire games you either create an army or gain influence, gather favors and earn people's respect... In this game you more likely than not have the entire city guard on your side, as well as possibly some defectors within the ranks of the templars and mages. Cousland Wardens had both the military might and competence to rule, Eamon owing them, his proxy Alistair willing to let you take his place and Loghain eventually yielding to you... plus, as the de-facto Warden-Commander and having several armies backing you, you could take the country by force or abandon it alltogether.

Seeing how much former Player Characters are refernced in total, it wouldn't create too much trouble with subsequent games. Still, not giving the option in the first place is not nearly as bad as giving you a choice, only to retcon/handwave it in the next entry in the series, such as the Ultimate Sacrifice in Awakening.

[Joy Divison]

Not having the option to kill Sebastien when he leaves Hawke and threatens to bring an army.

Rescuing Bethany in Act3 only to have to hand her over to the very people who kidnapped her.

[MelfinaofOutlawStar]

Pretty much any mage playthrough is going to be hard to swallow. For a mage in a city that heavily oppresses them I was constantly ignored despite throwing fireballs in the Gallows mere minutes after I got of the boat. Being able to warn Cullen about the bomb and having him completely disregard it. Fenris keeping bodies in his home for seven years. And as someone said earlier, being compelled to remain in a city that has done nothing but try to ruin your life at every turn. Once I obtained the money I would have gotten on a boat real fast.

Modifié par MelfinaofOutlawStar, 18 avril 2011 - 04:28 .

[stobie]

I wouldn't have let Grace walk out of that cavern alive, and I wouldn't let Petrice say more than 3 words before I Went Psycho myself.

In Origins, the worst moment for me was on my City Elf - when he goes back to Denerim for the first time & learns the Alienage was purged - then trots happily on. He's a rogue - he could climb a wall. But whatever he was, he'd get in somehow.

[stobie]

MelfinaofOutlawStar wrote...

Pretty much any mage playthrough is going to be hard to swallow. For a mage in a city that heavily oppresses them I was constantly ignored despite throwing fireballs in the Gallows mere minutes after I got of the boat. Being able to warn Cullen about the bomb and having him completely disregard it. Fenris keeping bodies in his home for seven years. And as someone said earlier, being compelled to remain in a city that has done nothing but try to ruin your life at every turn. Once I obtained the money I would have gotten on a boat real fast.

Once they mummify (which for some reason, I guess they're doing), they're decoration!

[stobie]

Joy Divison wrote...

Not having the option to kill Sebastien when he leaves Hawke and threatens to bring an army.

Rescuing Bethany in Act3 only to have to hand her over to the very people who kidnapped her.

Oh, god, or at least, hurtle insults at him!  I would have had SOOO much mockery to shout at him then!

[jussyr]

Rifneno wrote...

Another one, and I know "why" this one is a plot no-no but it's still kind of nonsensical:  When Meredith calls for the RoA, there's only her, Orsino, Hawke, and a few of their respective underlings.  My initial reaction is this:  If no templar walks away from there alive, who's to say a RoA was ever called?  The mages sure as hell aren't going to go back and report it.  Generally speaking, Hawke's group won't either.  If any of them want to try (that means you, Sebastian!) they die too.  There's a lot fewer deaths if Meredith just disappears because "she was in the Chantry too" than if you have to fight off the RoA.

Yeah.  Or even beforehand, doing *something* about the situation other than occasionally saying 'hey Meredith, Elthina, maybe the way things are going isn't that great and you should do something about it.  No?  Ok, then!'  By Act 3, even my generally Templar-sympathetic character was thinking that it'd solve a lot of problems if Meredith accidentally tripped and fell on a sword in her office.

[Lethys1]

How about how, despite playing the entire game supporting mages, I get attacked by blood mages at every possible moment? How about how, other than 3 mages in the end and your sister, EVERY SINGLE MAGE turns to blood magic or is an abomination?

Story was terrible. I hope Gaider sees these threads because I honestly had to stop playing for a day or two at a few points in the plot, and had to force myself to finish the game. I almost refused to believe it was as bad as it was, but here we are.

Worst of all though was having to take that terrible character Merrill.  I hated her with a passion.  I wanted to kill her as soon as I saw her, the blood mage that she is, trying to fix that disgusting mirror.

Modifié par Lethys1, 18 avril 2011 - 06:26 .

[morbusswg]

Super_Fr33k wrote...


But here's a bigger point: Once Hawke makes it rich, it can easily become implausible for him to remain in Kirkwall. The expedition gives him enough treasure to leap back into the city's upper class. This means he has enough money to just move somewhere else entirely. Once Qunari land, and once it seems mages and Templars are warring, why not go somewhere else?

This, times a thousand. Bethany is killed by an ogre, Carver dies in the deep roads, and my mother's head is transplanted onto another person's body. And I'm rich. Why am I staying? 

A: for Anders? - LOL? I learned early in my female life, that if a guy pours his heart out about junk on the first date, run like hell....

B: for Fenris? - he's so emo I'm convinced he cut those lyrium tatoos into himself

C: Merrill? - because the innocent blood mage is too irresistable, amirite?

D: Isabella? - uhh... she doesn't want to be there either and is only there because I am... pretty sure I can scrape together enough money for a row boat to get us the heck out of there...

E: Varric? whatever, we'd make great penpals....

F: Avaline? - She's become the married friend that once used to be cool to hang out with when they were single, now they're just a drag...

G: Sebastian? - chaste marriage - I'm still laughing....

[Paeyne]

Not being able to stick a sword through both Ser Varnell and Sister Petrices chest after they betray me. They are in Lowtown after all. Who would even know it was me?

Not being able to challenge Pscyco Meredith right there rather than letting her start a mage war in the city. (I usually kill Anders for the same reason I want to kill Meredith.)

When I first went to the foundry in the serial killer quest line I see the guy run upstairs but he disappears. I was a rogue and I had Isabella and Varric with me at the time. You would think one of us would have gone "Where did the guy go? You think they may be a secret door?" Duh.

Not being able to kill the Dockmaster Assistant Aden. "Your not going to kill me in broad daylight are you." He takes your threat seriously if you are aggressive disposition but throws it back in your face if your not. "You know Serah, I really wasn't until about 2 seconds ago."

Not being able to clock people who deserve it like you do with the hunger demon as a warrior. Punching people in the face who deserve it is immensely satisfying.
Bethany: Please Hawke, don't cause a fuss.
<Hawke cold ****s Cullen and then steps aside>
Hawke: Very well sister.

I am not sure, but I think you have to help the dwarf in the blackpowder quest or the story does not continue. You can turn him down, but you still have to go kill the Tal'Vashok and when you return it is assumed that you were helping the Dwarf.
Dwarf: Here is the man I have been telling you about.
Hawke: I am sorry, have we met? I have never seen you before in my life.

There are more, but with most of them I just groaned and moved on.

[Wulfram]

Diplomatic Hawke telling Huon's wife they'll protect her from her crazy husband and then doing absolutely nothing to protect her.

[Rifneno]

Wulfram wrote...

Diplomatic Hawke telling Huon's wife they'll protect her from her crazy husband and then doing absolutely nothing to protect her.

OMG yes.  I forgot about that.  The first time I saw it I'm sitting there talking to the screen, "WTF Hawke!  Get off your ass!  You promised to protect her!"

[Kimberly Shaw]

I am loving this thread.

Seriously, are you guys butter? Cause you are ON A ROLL!

Would pay another $60 that I paid to get the game to have David Gaider or Mike Laidlaw come on here and explain away all these plot facepalms.

[Kimberly Shaw]

Deztyn wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

Deztyn, she even tells Aveline in party banter to find information on the Circle. She's clearly interested in it (she wants to know how bad it is, I think). She really should have chosen to leave to the Circle and not get found out and dragged there.

And regardless we should have had more contact with the siblings after Act 1.

Yeah, if we were kept away because of the rules that would have been fine, but it was ridiculous that Leandra and Gamlen could visit but we couldn't. Not even to tell her about our mother's death.

I almost get why she wants to go in Chapter 1 end, I can see where she is tired of runnign/hiding and just wants to give her family some chance to be at peace in their new home. But no, by the time she is kidnapped there is no reason she would want to go back there instead of being a free mage under your protection.  She could help the Circle from the outside the way Hawke has been doing with out fear of being raped or attacked or kidnapped again. It makes zero sense that Hawke would let her go back even if she wanted to, given how he lost his mother and wants to protect his sister.

In any case, there wasn't even a dialogue option to discuss it. Just...oh back you go to the Circle, guess I can't say anything or stop it.

And it was BEYOND ridiculous that you couldn't even go talk to her in Chapter 2 or 3 at the Gallows when they rub in your face that your other family members can. Not even after y our mother's death, which was the biggest WTF moment in the entire game for me...and that is saying something.

Gah.

[AshleyS3]

Rifneno wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Diplomatic Hawke telling Huon's wife they'll protect her from her crazy husband and then doing absolutely nothing to protect her.

OMG yes.  I forgot about that.  The first time I saw it I'm sitting there talking to the screen, "WTF Hawke!  Get off your ass!  You promised to protect her!"

This is the first thing that came to mind for me too. And it's not like there wasn't plenty of time to step in there.

[Fruit of the Doom]

I selected the dialogue option "You are such a *****."

Somehow, that translated into "This was wasted on you."



The dialogue wheel is such a *****.