145 réponses à ce sujet

[Wozearly]

Really?

I agree that for a relatively small area of land its had a pretty amazingly diverse history including ownership by the French, but Ferelden never united with fellow minor kingdoms to attack the Qunari (if we take it that the Qunari represent islamic nations) and, from memory, it didn't fight a war against France for its independence. Catalonia then spent most of its existence as part of a series of amalgamations firstly into Aragon, and then into the emergent Spain.

...but you spoke like you're far more familiar with Catalonia, so I'm curious to know what drove the comparison.

[Clertar]

Just reminded me of its role in the Spanish Succession war somehow (in the early 1700s), but really I would say that, politically, rather than England, Ferelden is more similar to Scotland or Catalonia... smaller kingdoms that have run into troubles with neighbouring bigger states, fighting for their independence. Loghain could be a successful William Wallace or general Moragues. Ferelden reminds me a lot more of that than England, but it could be just me.

That was about the way Ferelden fits into Thedas politically. Thematically, I agree with most of the people here that it's some sort of England: a parlamentary monarchy --which Catalonia also was, now that I mention it-- with the Arls/Earls and the Landsmeet, and a strong Anglosaxon flavour to the lore and visuals... I found Ferelden a nicely done country, more realistic than excessively cliché countries ala Game of Thrones (even though I really enjoyed the books), or FR or the Warhammer world. I am really looking forward to seeing Orlais develop into something richer than just a parody of France, and Antiva into something more than a Spanish-speaking Italy. Oh, I have no doubts that the DA team can pull it off

Edit: I don't think the Qunari represent just Islamic nations, I always saw them as fantasy Ottomans. They are stranger than the other "person" races in Thedas, both physically and mentally, and represent otherness pretty well. Their role within Thedas international dynamics is similar to that of the Turks, attacking the remains of what used to be a big and hegemonic empire. 

Modifié par Clertar, 13 septembre 2011 - 10:38 .

[Wozearly]

Clertar wrote...

Just reminded me of its role in the Spanish Succession war somehow (in the early 1700s), but really I would say that, politically, rather than England, Ferelden is more similar to Scotland or Catalonia... smaller kingdoms that have run into troubles with neighbouring bigger states, fighting for their independence. Loghain could be a successful William Wallace or general Moragues. Ferelden reminds me a lot more of that than England, but it could be just me.

Saxon England had horrendous trouble with neighbouring states - Wales, Scotland and Denmark all occupied areas of what was broadly considered 'England' to varying degrees throughout the dark ages. Even during the Norman conquest, England felt as threatened by Denmark as it did by Normandy - and these neighbours weren't even larger.

Once Norman England was more established, it didn't take long to run into direct conflict with France as neither was particularly happy with a powerful and amibitious rival on its doorstep (at the time, both Spain and Germany were comparatively fragmented politically).

The reality of history was that England spent time as an occupier of French territory rather than the reverse during the Hundred Years War. So the English history of that period doesn't mimic Ferelden - but if you roll back to just following the Norman invasion, the young Edgar Atheling was the rightful heir to England's throne by a relatively well-established bloodline (the House of Cerdic) - and the importance attached to this in terms of the support it generated in the country mimics how important the Therein line was considered in Ferelden. Edgar himself was part of a rebellion supported by two of the Earldoms in an attempt to restore him to the throne. If you discount the Scottish (and some Danish) support, that resembles Maric's war closely except for the outcome (the saxons lost decisively).

Ultimately, the DA world wasn't trying to replicate european history perfectly - that we can see potential parallels in the stories of various countries and people is a sign that the IP creators hit the mark pretty well for how a troubled nation in such times should 'feel'.

Modifié par Wozearly, 14 septembre 2011 - 12:28 .

[Cyberarmy]

So im a Qunari now? Oh yeah
Call me Sten on my way to become the next Arishok!

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Shadowrun1177 wrote...

How do you figure Ostagar USA, Ostagar is part of Ferelden

Come to think of it, there are some very striking paralells with the US and Ostagar. Both places are blighted and overrun by mindless, souless, twisted creatures who are corrupted versions of the broodmothers who spawned them. Creatures that corrupt everything they touch, make the country unliveable for decades, and doom future generations to a miserable, blighted existance.

Except in the US, they are not called darkspawn, but Congress.

[Irishfafnir]

There are definitely striking similarities between some of the nations of Thedas and Medieval European countries.

-Tvinter- Is definitely the eastern Roman or as some call it Byzantine Empire- They used to dominate all of Thedas and then broke up into a weaker state. This state then splits from the Chantry to form the Imperial Chantry ( much like how the East and west churches split).
-Orlais- Definitely France. The way they speak + certain words such as Chevaliers strongly indicate they are French.
Ferelden- Probably England or Scotland, they have fought several wars against Orlais and remain extremely anti-Orlisian much as England and France remained in competition until industrial age. The word Bann is probably derived from the Scottish word bannerman.
Qunari- Ottomans, they do not worship the chantry, and they launched a massive invasion that was only beat back by the combined effort of many nations ( see Battle of Vienna). They are also locked into a permanent war with the Tvinter ( Byzantium).
Kirkwall and the other free cities- Italy

I doubt the United States is represented in the game

[Quatre]

My try:

Orlais - Medieval France
Ferelden - mixture of England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland
Antiva - mixture of Italian City States (cf. use of the name "Calabria" (= Italian region) in "The Stolen Throne") and Spain (Accent)
Rivain - Andalusia
Free Marches - Italian or German City States, or Hanseatic League (Baltic States, Northern Germany, Netherlands etc.)
Nevarra - maybe mixture of Navarra (=Spanish Region) and Prussia (former City State of the Free Marches, that becomes an independant and powerful nation, with a strong military tradition; wars and conflicts with Orlais (Blasted Hills))
Anderfels - Holy Roman Empire (cf. German names such as "Weisshaupt" (= "white head"))
Tevinter Empire - Roman Empire, later : Byzantine Empire
Qunari - Moors/Ottoman Empire (cf. war with Tevinter Empire/Byzantine Empire, Moorish influence on Andalusia/Qunari influence on Rivain)

Andrastian Chantry - Catholic Church
Imperial Church - Othodox Church
Exalted Marches - Chrusades
White Divine - Roman Pope
Black Devine - Avignon Pope or rather the Patriarch of Constantinople (cf. Minrathous, Tevinter Empire), or maybe the Superior General of the Society of Jesus (aka "Black Pope")

Grey Wardens - Teutonic Knight Order (cf. Weihsshaupt, Anderfels), rather Night Watch ("A Game of Thrones") or Jedi Knights...

Modifié par Quatre04, 15 septembre 2011 - 10:40 .

[Wozearly]

Irishfafnir wrote...

Ferelden- Probably England or Scotland, they have fought several wars against Orlais and remain extremely anti-Orlisian much as England and France remained in competition until industrial age. The word Bann is probably derived from the Scottish word bannerman.

Scotland falls over slightly on this example, because for a signficant part of the medieval age it was allied with France against England, as indeed the Scots tended historically to support any other powers against the current rulers of England because of the threat that English power posed to Scottish independence.

[Irishfafnir]

I don't think Bioware went for an exact historical comparison. Fereldan is probably a mixture of England and Scotland. Fereldan is also not an island, this does not mean it could not be Britain.

[Ollys]

Kirkwall - USA. Lot of migrants and... well, you know - Anders...

[DoNotIngest]

I lol'd

[DarkDragon777]

I would compare America to Orlais (for now), Nevarra to China (because China is catching up to the US), The Free Marches to The European Union, Tevinter to Russia (modern)..or the Roman Empire (past), Rivain and Antivia to....Australia and Canada..?, The Anderfels to the Middle East., and the Qunari.......I've got nothing.

[Bad King]

Ferelden is an Anglo-Saxon/Wales/Scotland cross. Some of the titles of the nobility come from Anglo-Saxon and Celtic languages- for example 'Arl' comes from the Anglo-Saxon 'Earl', and 'Teyrn' comes from the Welsh language (Teyrn is Welsh for monarch). I'd say that Orlais represent the Normans- they have heavily armoured knights and are a military threat to Ferelden (the Anglo-Saxons, Welsh, Scottish, and Irish have all been at war with the Normans at some point in history).

Modifié par Bad King, 15 septembre 2011 - 07:45 .

[Jim Foster]

What ever happened to CandleJack?

[Anglosaxonman]

Im only going to explain Ferelden i am scottish/irish fathers irish mothers scottish live in ireland.

Highever is based of Ireland during the middle ages dashed with a bit of scotland
similarties such as rebellion against ferelden[england] and many have irish sounding names
such as fergus.

Now to ferelden as a whole the country is based of Anglo saxon england, Ireland example such as the Tyrrn and MAC are irish words mac means son of in irish also MORRIGAN AND FLEMETH are irish names obviously.So basicallly ferelden is based of many north western european cultures
Irish/viking/welsh/anglo saxon/viking. The dalish elves are based of celtic irish and celtic welsh who where discrimated and lost their culture and language for hundred of years for being allowed their culture back etc so there yeah go,

[The Twilight God]

How does one abandoned fort = USA?

The Qunari comparible to the ancient muslims vs christian struggle, but not comparible to today's muslims, though.

Orlais is more like the British Empire back in the day.

Ferelden is more like the British isles back further in the day.

Antive reminds me of a certain gang infested South American city.

[Bad King]

The Twilight God wrote...

The Qunari comparible to the ancient muslims vs christian struggle, but not comparible to today's muslims, though.

Rather than being muslims in general, I always saw the Qunari as being similar to the Ottoman Turks- they have advanced technology and are a threat to many of the countries in Thedas in the same way that the turks were often viewed as a threat by many of medieval Europe's states.

[maxernst]

Wozearly wrote...

Clertar wrote...

Just reminded me of its role in the Spanish Succession war somehow (in the early 1700s), but really I would say that, politically, rather than England, Ferelden is more similar to Scotland or Catalonia... smaller kingdoms that have run into troubles with neighbouring bigger states, fighting for their independence. Loghain could be a successful William Wallace or general Moragues. Ferelden reminds me a lot more of that than England, but it could be just me.

Saxon England had horrendous trouble with neighbouring states - Wales, Scotland and Denmark all occupied areas of what was broadly considered 'England' to varying degrees throughout the dark ages. Even during the Norman conquest, England felt as threatened by Denmark as it did by Normandy - and these neighbours weren't even larger.

Once Norman England was more established, it didn't take long to run into direct conflict with France as neither was particularly happy with a powerful and amibitious rival on its doorstep (at the time, both Spain and Germany were comparatively fragmented politically).

I like to think of Ferelden as a sort of alternate England where the Angles and Saxons never invaded (hence the Celtic names), they were invaded by France rather than the Norse in 1066, and Simon de Montfort's rebellion of 1263 overthrew the Normans and re-established a state more similar to Saxon England.  But the Scottish parallels are certainly valid.  Trying to make a one:one correspondence with real historical places is shaky ground here.  If Dragon Age were a Guy Gavriel Kay novel, it would be A Song for Arbonne or Tigana where historical cultures and events are used for flavor, rather than the Lions of Al Rassan or the Sarantine Mosaic which riffs on highly specific historical events and personalities.

[maxernst]

Quatre04 wrote...

My try:

Orlais - Medieval France
Ferelden - mixture of England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland
Antiva - mixture of Italian City States (cf. use of the name "Calabria" (= Italian region) in "The Stolen Throne") and Spain (Accent)
Rivain - Andalusia
Free Marches - Italian or German City States, or Hanseatic League (Baltic States, Northern Germany, Netherlands etc.)
Nevarra - maybe mixture of Navarra (=Spanish Region) and Prussia (former City State of the Free Marches, that becomes an independant and powerful nation, with a strong military tradition; wars and conflicts with Orlais (Blasted Hills))
Anderfels - Holy Roman Empire (cf. German names such as "Weisshaupt" (= "white head"))
Tevinter Empire - Roman Empire, later : Byzantine Empire
Qunari - Moors/Ottoman Empire (cf. war with Tevinter Empire/Byzantine Empire, Moorish influence on Andalusia/Qunari influence on Rivain)

Andrastian Chantry - Catholic Church
Imperial Church - Othodox Church
Exalted Marches - Chrusades
White Divine - Roman Pope
Black Devine - Avignon Pope or rather the Patriarch of Constantinople (cf. Minrathous, Tevinter Empire), or maybe the Superior General of the Society of Jesus (aka "Black Pope")

Grey Wardens - Teutonic Knight Order (cf. Weihsshaupt, Anderfels), rather Night Watch ("A Game of Thrones") or Jedi Knights...

I agree with most of this, but since the White Divine is in Orlais, I'd place this as the Avignon papacy, with no Roman pope.  That would put the timeframe of the game between 1309 and 1377, which feels just about right technologically, as gunpowder has just appeared in Europe and metalworking technology is advanced enough for plate mail.  The Black Divine would be the Patriarch of Constantinople.

Also, Anderfels is definitely Germanic, but I wouldn't place it as HRE.  Why not Prussia?  Nevarra might be a better fit for HRE/Austria since the HRE was founded by Charlemagne, and Nevarra was once subject to Orlais.

Modifié par maxernst, 16 septembre 2011 - 05:56 .

[Quatre]

maxernst wrote...
Also, Anderfels is definitely Germanic, but I wouldn't place it as HRE.

You're right. Maybe the former State of the Teutonic Order would fit. I see a similarity between this order and the Grey Wardens - cf. the Grey Wardens' say on Ander politics.

Nevarra might be a better fit for HRE/Austria since the HRE was founded by Charlemagne, and Nevarra was once subject to Orlais.

Well, I disagree. Nevarra was subject to Orlais for only about 40 years during the Age of Towers. While Orlesians are of Ciriane origin, the people in the Free Marches including Nevarra were once called the Planasene.

In the Dragon Age Wiki (Nevarra - Trivia) there is a nice comparison:

"Nevarra shares some characteristics with Prussia.
Nevarra expanded out of a federation of city states to become a
powerful kingdom, similar to how Prussia expanded and became the
strongest power among the German principalities and kingdoms during the
18th and 19th centuries. The conflict with Orlais over the mineral-rich
Blasted Hills is similar to how France and Prussia fought over the
region Alsace-Lorraine.
Also the term "Prussian" has often been used, in and outside of
Germany, to emphasize professionalism, aggressiveness and militarism,
traits similar to those of Nevarra and the Pentaghast clan."


Besides, Nevarra is a nation-state, the HRE was a union of states and principalities.

Edit: I wouldn't equate the White Divine with the Avignon Pope, just because Orlais equals France. Rome is the traditional seat of the Catholic Church, while Val Royeaux is the tradional seat of the Andrastian Chantry.

You might want to take a look at the Concept Art Trailer for "Dawn of the Seeker". There are some pictures of a great plaza in Val Royeaux, which reminds one of the St. Peter's Square in Vatican City.

Modifié par Quatre04, 16 septembre 2011 - 11:31 .

[Silentmode]

I think Ostagar is more of a play on Hadrian's Wall built by the Roman Empire (Tevinter Imperium) to fend off against the native Britons (Chasind Wilders) in ancient Brittania (Ferelden) OP rather than the US. I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion.

[Chuvvy]

Qunari are pretty unique and I don't see any relation between Ostagar and the US.

[Addai]

astrallite wrote...

makalathbonagin wrote...

darspawn -indians, gypsies, arabs... (lol racism)

It makes sense in terms of Midieval/Fantasy European literature. All the human "traitors" that fought for Sauron in Lord Of The Rings were Indians, Asians, and black people. Not a single whitey to be found.

<_<  See- history of Numenor.  Also the post-history of LOTR.  White dudes could be evil in Middle Earth, too.

Tolkien's ethos was that the line between good and evil is in the human heart.  It's safe to say that if the men of the West had been able to recruit in the east, they would have found allies there to fight against Sauron.  They were geographically cut off from them.  Convenient for the type of person who likes to see racism under every rock, but JRRT probably wasn't familiar with that species.  He would likely have just blown pipe smoke at them if he were.

Modifié par Addai67, 18 septembre 2011 - 02:42 .

[Addai]

9999dmg wrote...

Blackmarsh = Baltimore

lol... not Detroit?

[RPGamer13]

You forgot about Rivain, African?