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[The Big Nothing]

One mage bombs a Chantry and the paranoid Templar Knight-Commander uses this to justify the slaughter of every mage in Kirkwall. Still, the true villain is neither mages nor templars, but Anders, who was still a man when he fused with the spirit of Justice; only when he succumbed to his thirst for vengeance and knowingly murdered innocents did he cease to be a man and become an abomination.
The annulment of Kirkwall's Circle was an injustice, and anybody who thinks it was a good call should be standing trial at the Dragon Age equivalent of Nuremberg.

- TBN


 

Modifié par The Big Nothing, 17 avril 2011 - 05:59 .

[nos_astra]

Do you mean us or our characters? Because we are, you know, roleplaying.

[The Big Nothing]

klarabella wrote...

Do you mean us or our characters? Because we are, you know, roleplaying.

I meant outside of R.P. But with in-game punishment.

[IanPolaris]

klarabella wrote...

Do you mean us or our characters? Because we are, you know, roleplaying.

I think that's an important distinction that I believe the devs themselves have (unfortunately) fuzzied up.  Let me be crystal clear.  I have no issue witha game presenting evil choices or even choices that we (as the players in a 21st century world) recognize as evil but would be supported, condoned, and perhaps even regarded as heroic by the people in the game world itself.  That can make for an interesting game.

Where my tolerance ends is when an evil choice is excused and even justified not in terms of what the people of the world think, but of what we the 21st century players should think.  Failing to recognize an evil choice as an evil one by the writers of the game (not the characters in it) sets off all kinds of alarm bells.....

-Polaris

[Torax]

Just what we need. Another thread on the right of the annulment. I mean we never have enough of these threads. Just face it that Meredith was bat chit crazy and move on. It's not like anyone can stop her. There is no Shepard interupt to shoot her in the forehead.

Modifié par Torax, 17 avril 2011 - 06:07 .

[nos_astra]

IanPolaris wrote...
Where my tolerance ends is when an evil choice is excused and even justified not in terms of what the people of the world think, but of what we the 21st century players should think.  Failing to recognize an evil choice as an evil one by the writers of the game (not the characters in it) sets off all kinds of alarm bells.....

Ah yes, the dangers of immersion in a roleplaying game.

[Foolsfolly]

The annulment of Kirkwall's Circle was an injustice, and anybody who thinks it was a good call should be standing trial at the Dragon Age equivalent of Nuremberg.

Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with swords. Who's gonna do it? You? You, The Big Nothing? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom! You weep for the Mages and you curse the Templars. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that the Annulment, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives! You don't want the truth, because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall! You need me on that wall! We use words like "honor", "code", "loyalty". We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline! I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it! I would rather you just said "Thank you," and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to!

[Torax]

klarabella wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...
Where my tolerance ends is when an evil choice is excused and even justified not in terms of what the people of the world think, but of what we the 21st century players should think.  Failing to recognize an evil choice as an evil one by the writers of the game (not the characters in it) sets off all kinds of alarm bells.....

Ah yes, the dangers of immersion in a roleplaying game.

It goes deeper than immersion with Ian. He takes it all very personal. Him versus the writers.

[Cutlass Jack]

IanPolaris wrote...

Where my tolerance ends is when an evil choice is excused and even justified not in terms of what the people of the world think, but of what we the 21st century players should think.  Failing to recognize an evil choice as an evil one by the writers of the game (not the characters in it) sets off all kinds of alarm bells.....

My alarm bells are more set off by the people who want to romance their sister...

[Camenae]

My club has been itching since it hasn't had a dead horse in a while. And by a while I mean two seconds ago.

Yes by all means string me up for my war crimes in a video game. I'll stand trial for all the other mobs that I murder-knifed/exploded too while I'm at it

[The Big Nothing]

IanPolaris wrote...

klarabella wrote...

Do you mean us or our characters? Because we are, you know, roleplaying.

I think that's an important distinction that I believe the devs themselves have (unfortunately) fuzzied up.  Let me be crystal clear.  I have no issue witha game presenting evil choices or even choices that we (as the players in a 21st century world) recognize as evil but would be supported, condoned, and perhaps even regarded as heroic by the people in the game world itself.  That can make for an interesting game.

Where my tolerance ends is when an evil choice is excused and even justified not in terms of what the people of the world think, but of what we the 21st century players should think.  Failing to recognize an evil choice as an evil one by the writers of the game (not the characters in it) sets off all kinds of alarm bells.....

-Polaris

I am hearing the same bell. For people out-of-game to even say, "Ninety-nine percent of mages in Kirkwall were maleficarum, so it's justified..." is lunacy. Were it true, one percent of those slaughtered are still innocent people born into magic, and those are not acceptable losses. And it's not true, because the Right of Annulment was only invoked for the actions of one mage, and that is like branding all templars rapist tranquilizers based on the actions of one Ser Alrik.

Modifié par The Big Nothing, 17 avril 2011 - 06:17 .

[Foolsfolly]

I am hearing the same bell. For people out-of-game to even say, "Ninety-nine percent of mages in Kirkwall were maleficarum, so it's justified..." is lunacy

The statistic is BS, but if most of the mages are corrupt then putting them down like the mad dogs they are saves lives.

[hoorayforicecream]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Where my tolerance ends is when an evil choice is excused and even justified not in terms of what the people of the world think, but of what we the 21st century players should think.  Failing to recognize an evil choice as an evil one by the writers of the game (not the characters in it) sets off all kinds of alarm bells.....

My alarm bells are more set off by the people who want to romance their sister...

To be clear, they want to role-play romancing their sister. And she is pretty hot.

[Isaidlunch]

The Big Nothing wrote...
Were it true, one percent of those slaughtered are still innocent people born into magic, and those are not acceptable losses.

Then what is an acceptable loss? Losing the entire city to dangerous mages?

[nos_astra]

The Big Nothing wrote...
I am hearing the same bell. For people out-of-game to even say, "Ninety-nine percent of mages in Kirkwall were maleficarum, so it's justified..." is lunacy. Were it true, one percent of those slaughtered are still innocent people born
into magic, and those are not acceptable losses. And it's not true, because the Right of Annulment was only invoked for the actions of one mage, and that is like branding all templars rapist tranquilizers based on the actions of one Ser Alrik.

You really don't get that we are just playing devil's advocate on behalf of our characters? Or in TJPags' case (the guy who was throwing around percentages) just for the fun of it since his canon character sided with the mages anyway?

Modifié par klarabella, 17 avril 2011 - 06:25 .

[Cutlass Jack]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

To be clear, they want to role-play romancing their sister. And she is pretty hot.

Ah yes, 'Roleplay' *fingerquotes* We have dismissed this claim.

[The Big Nothing]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Where my tolerance ends is when an evil choice is excused and even justified not in terms of what the people of the world think, but of what we the 21st century players should think.  Failing to recognize an evil choice as an evil one by the writers of the game (not the characters in it) sets off all kinds of alarm bells.....

My alarm bells are more set off by the people who want to romance their sister...

Bethany's got it goin' on; ain't nothin' gonna keep me from her, not even Ser Incest. Rearrange the letters of his name and you have sincerest, which is what my incestuous love for Bethany is: the sincerest.

Modifié par The Big Nothing, 17 avril 2011 - 06:25 .

[Ryzaki]

Heck it may be messy and horrible but I can see why the rite of annulment was done.

My canon game will be a pro-rite of annulment one.

[Torax]

The Big Nothing wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Where my tolerance ends is when an evil choice is excused and even justified not in terms of what the people of the world think, but of what we the 21st century players should think.  Failing to recognize an evil choice as an evil one by the writers of the game (not the characters in it) sets off all kinds of alarm bells.....

My alarm bells are more set off by the people who want to romance their sister...

Bethany's got it goin' on; ain't nothin' gonna keep me from her, not even Ser Incest. Rearrange the letters of his name and you have sincerest, which is what my incestuous love for Bethany is: the sincerest.

There are addons to make Isabela or Merrill to look like Bethany if you are a PC player. Granted it's still creepy.

Modifié par Torax, 17 avril 2011 - 06:27 .

[Foolsfolly]

Kazanth wrote...

The Big Nothing wrote...
Were it true, one percent of those slaughtered are still innocent people born into magic, and those are not acceptable losses.

Then what is an acceptable loss? Losing the entire city to dangerous mages?

Clearly people believe a minority has more rights than a majority. The innocent elves, dwarves, and humans in Kirkwall are lesser people than mages.

[The Big Nothing]

Kazanth wrote...

The Big Nothing wrote...
Were it true, one percent of those slaughtered are still innocent people born into magic, and those are not acceptable losses.

Then what is an acceptable loss? Losing the entire city to dangerous mages?

The city wasn't at risk. A few maleficarum in seven years isn't risky. The Ferelden Circle was much more dire and it was still salvaged. 

Modifié par The Big Nothing, 17 avril 2011 - 06:27 .

[Cutlass Jack]

Ryzaki wrote...

Heck it may be messy and horrible but I can see why the rite of annulment was done.

My canon game will be a pro-rite of annulment one.

My canon game will be sticking to the pro-mage one I originally did. I sort of like that I made a truly terrible choice for what seemed like the right reasons. The mages went out of their way to prove the Templars right unfortunately.

[Cutlass Jack]

The Big Nothing wrote...

The city wasn't at risk. A few maleficarum in seven years isn't risky. The Ferelden Circle was much more dire and it was still salvaged. 

No it really wasn't. Because the Ferelden Incident stayed within the confines of its tower. It didn't kill innocents on the streets of Denerim.

[Isaidlunch]

The Big Nothing wrote...

Kazanth wrote...

The Big Nothing wrote...
Were it true, one percent of those slaughtered are still innocent people born into magic, and those are not acceptable losses.

Then what is an acceptable loss? Losing the entire city to dangerous mages?

The city wasn't at risk. A few maleficarum in seven years isn't risky. The Ferelden Circle was much more dire and it was still salvaged. 

We're talking about the hypothetical situation you mentioned with 99% of the Circle being maleficarum. In which case Kirkwall would definitely be at risk.

Modifié par Kazanth, 17 avril 2011 - 06:35 .

[The Big Nothing]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Heck it may be messy and horrible but I can see why the rite of annulment was done.

My canon game will be a pro-rite of annulment one.

My canon game will be sticking to the pro-mage one I originally did. I sort of like that I made a truly terrible choice for what seemed like the right reasons. The mages went out of their way to prove the Templars right unfortunately.

I feel the same way; rushing out of the city, the few survivors from the mage side.

Modifié par The Big Nothing, 17 avril 2011 - 06:32 .