200 réponses à ce sujet

[Cataca]

nopho wrote...
wild guess but i think bioware cares for bioware and not the media, and there is other people then . and a good sequel would not have the same effect. a good sequel is what is needed to safe the franchise, either make it rpg'ish for the DA:O fans or make it god-of-war-ish for the CoD crowd.
if they do not adress the shortcomming of the game, the ones due to short production time and the ones wich either one of the crowds they are going to adress DA3 on didn't like they will lose money.
i am a gaming nerd, i will buy a game when it is good but many others just buy games on an lesser extend. plus even with me, i'll buy any given bioware game after it had some pricedrops. so even with nerds there can money be safed on that occasion.

yes i read you post, and "haters" was used by me because i wanted to use them in my argumentation, not because i thought you wrote about them. i also never said that you defend DA2, if you think that every comment on your posts is a comment against you then you should maybe take a little timeout from onlineforum

p.s. the feeling that everything told refers to one self (in a negative way) is a sign of paranoia

I will assure you, that game reviewers need bioware as much as the other way round. Early, overly positive reviews will drive up sales, as much as early reviews will rise the viewer base of the review site/paper, its a symbiotic relationship. Its in Biowares, and more importantly in EA's best interest to keep that relationship healthy.
Openly admitting that the game had serious flaws, will also implicate that the reviews have been dishonest in their conclusion, it would shake the faith of the consumers and thus impact  the reviews have, negatively influencing sales.

Imho, they either drop the IP entirely, or put a refined successor after DA2, saying sorry will not influence the caution that the "haters" will have towards DA3, so i dont see why they would do that, and the people who like it allready will buy it anyway. Seeing the sales numbers, the "CoD" crowd aproach failed quite obviously, so thats not really an option.

The general flavour of your post made me imply that you took my post as me defending bioware, if it was not intended as such, sorry for misunderstanding you. You quoted my post, and used "you" several times, im somewhat confused as to how i would be "paranoid" for thinking it was directed to me, but whatever.

Modifié par Cataca, 18 avril 2011 - 05:24 .

[Miashi]

nopho wrote...
wild guess but i think bioware cares for bioware and not the media

If that was the case, going on dragon age's main site, high scores and awesome reviews wouldn't be the first thing to pop right in your face in the browser. Wild guess

[nopho]

Cataca wrote...

nopho wrote...
wild guess but i think bioware cares for bioware and not the media, and there is other people then . and a good sequel would not have the same effect. a good sequel is what is needed to safe the franchise, either make it rpg'ish for the DA:O fans or make it god-of-war-ish for the CoD crowd.
if they do not adress the shortcomming of the game, the ones due to short production time and the ones wich either one of the crowds they are going to adress DA3 on didn't like they will lose money.
i am a gaming nerd, i will buy a game when it is good but many others just buy games on an lesser extend. plus even with me, i'll buy any given bioware game after it had some pricedrops. so even with nerds there can money be safed on that occasion.

yes i read you post, and "haters" was used by me because i wanted to use them in my argumentation, not because i thought you wrote about them. i also never said that you defend DA2, if you think that every comment on your posts is a comment against you then you should maybe take a little timeout from onlineforum

p.s. the feeling that everything told refers to one self (in a negative way) is a sign of paranoia

I will assure you, that game reviewers need bioware as much as the other way round. Early, overly positive reviews will drive up sales, as much as early reviews will rise the viewer base of the review site/paper, its a symbiotic relationship. Its in Biowares, and more importantly in EA's best interest to keep that relationship healthy.
Openly admitting that the game had serious flaws, will also implicate that the reviews have been dishonest in their consensus, it would shake the faith of the consumers and thus impact  the reviews have, negatively influencing sales.

Imho, they either drop the IP entirely, or put a refined successor after DA2, saying sorry will not influence the caution that the "haters" will have towards DA3, so i dont see why they would do that, and the people who like it allready will buy it anyway. Seeing the sales numbers, the "CoD" crowd aproach failed quite obviously, so thats not really an option.

The general flavour of your post made me imply that you took my post as me defending bioware, if it was not intended as such, sorry for misunderstanding you. You quoted my post, and used "you" several times, im somewhat confused as to how i would be "paranoid" for thinking it was directed to me, but whatever.

well but it is also hurting. i mean even most people who like DA2 (the ones i read from) won't buy the 94% reviews. i mean do you buy it? me neither. saying that you imply that everyone except us two beauties is stupid. i think that most people are smart enough to already have gotten it. so admiting would (in my eyes) be a way of damage containment. away from the image they got now (with people like me) of being just another company that would oull of every dirty trick in the book to sell a game back to the image of people who love to make games. and in marketing there is a concept called "halo effect" wich is when the image of A shines over to B (while A and B can here take the place of the company and it's products)

speeak for yourself, if they say sorry in the right way, it will help me and i consider myself a hater.

and the post was adressed at you, it was just not ment agressive or insulting or whatever.

[Mecher3k]

Aermord wrote...

Actually I dont think the war is over. I think it might be in regard to DA2, but Biowares response to the fans critic of the game seems to have spread a lot of anger and depending on what people are saying out there, Bioware might suffer from this for a long time.

Who's going to believe the reviews of Bioware games in the future for instance? When they differ so dramatically from user reviews, and from what is said among friends? It smells of positive reviews given in return of some EA advertising goodwill on the reviewers websites.

This, Mike Laidlaw's comments have only increased damage done already. They really need to make sure he never speaks in a interview again.

[AkiKishi]

Mecher3k wrote...

Aermord wrote...

Actually I dont think the war is over. I think it might be in regard to DA2, but Biowares response to the fans critic of the game seems to have spread a lot of anger and depending on what people are saying out there, Bioware might suffer from this for a long time.

Who's going to believe the reviews of Bioware games in the future for instance? When they differ so dramatically from user reviews, and from what is said among friends? It smells of positive reviews given in return of some EA advertising goodwill on the reviewers websites.

This, Mike Laidlaw's comments have only increased damage done already. They really need to make sure he never speaks in a interview again.

They may just stick around and haunt any future Bioware games for "fun". That's a bad situation especially online.

[moilami]

DASockDA wrote...

I tell them that it's "okay", but it has many inexcusable flaws. If they're going to buy it, wait until it's around $20, because that's all it's really worth.

Too much IMO. DA2 should be given as extra DLC for buying any other BW or EA game.


Edit: Or maybe not. Since that could ruin the reputation of the company. Can be better at times to not give crap to the customers even for free.

Modifié par moilami, 18 avril 2011 - 07:26 .

[Jim_uk]

It's far too early for them to openly admit to the games shortcomings, that doesn't mean they don't know or care about them. My guess is we won't know if they are going to address them until DA3 development is well underway. They can admit they got things wrong later down the line, Bethesda admitted issues with Morrowind when they released Oblivion (combat, getting lost), now they're acknowledging the issues with Oblivion (dumbing down, bland world) in the lead up to Skyrim. It shows people that they listen to criticism and it shows they are open minded. Admitting mistakes is a sign of strength and confidence, it's not a weakness.

Modifié par Jim_uk, 18 avril 2011 - 07:46 .

[Volourn]

"Bethesda admitted issues with Morrowind when they released Oblivion (combat, getting lost), now they're acknowledging the issues with Oblivion (dumbing down, bland world) in the lead up to Skyrim. It shows people that they listen to criticism and it shows they are open minded. Admitting mistakes is a sign of strength and confidence, it's not a weakness. "

Nah. They aren't criticizing those games because they think they're legit crits. They do it to pimp their next game Skyrim. All devs to it including BIO.

Put down their previous work in order to pimp their new work. They did it with ME in regards to ME1. They did it with DA2 in comparison to DA1. And, if (when) DA3 comes out, they'll be putting down DA2 as well to pimp DA3. And, even if DA3 get 90s across the baord, if a DA4 comes out they'll start criticizing DA3 too.

It's a way of claiming, hey, you don't like x in y ... guess what x is gone or is fixed in game z. L0L

[aries1001]

I don't think employees in game stores should warn people from buying DA2, it it really not their job to decide what the customer should buy. If a customer wants to buy DA2, it is their decision.

As for word of mouth, yes it is the best advertising campain one can get. I know I based my first Bioware game purchase on the recommendations of a former colleague of mine; it was Baldur's Gate, the first. And I have never looked back. As for reputation, they take a lot of time building up, but can be torn down hastily and rapidly. Someone once told me (maybe it was my father?) that a customer maybe tells 1-3 friends or family that they're satisfied with a product, but when they're not satisfied with a product, they'll tell at least 5-7 friends or up to 10-12 friends or family about this.

Bioware games for me has always been about the story, and the great characters and dialogue. It seems that even on this issue (the story) the fans, the community, are divided. As for the story, on the nack of the box, when I looked at at my local Gamestop, it said something like 'Hawke...fleeing...assemble the most deadliest of allies....' To me it sems much like what it says on the back of the box for Mass Effect 2. And as I understand it, this game ME2, succeeds? in creating and spinning such a tale of a tighther more personal story.

The question the remains, why did ME2 succeed when DA2 failed?

[Volourn]

They both succeeded.

[the_one_54321]

I expect any employee of a game store to be interested in games and willing to give an honest opinion to some degree. There is a guy at the GameStop near my place of employment that I have had several conversations with concerning games that we've enjoyed or not.

I do know that for my part, my willingness to discuss games, developers, and sales practices has lead at least one person to not buy DAII. Not that I was trying to convince him not to buy it, but we were discussing the game and I told him how I honestly felt about it. He bought DA:O originally because of what another friend had to say about it. He ended up skipping over DAII because of what I had to say about it.

[Seph696]

aries1001 wrote...

I don't think employees in game stores should warn people from buying DA2, it it really not their job to decide what the customer should buy. If a customer wants to buy DA2, it is their decision.

While i had worked on a small local sells shop in the past i can tell you with certainty that that customer often want to hear your opinion on the matter.
I would never say though "Oh never buy it its a ****y game"....i would,as i have had,point out the good and the bads since they asked me.

[erynnar]

Aradace wrote...

Aermord wrote...

Aradace wrote...

Here's a question. If you played the demo, hated it, and then STILL went out and bought the game, why in the nine hells are you *****ing again?

I didnt play the demo. I didnt want to have stuff revealed before the full game and made the mistake of -trusting- Bioware.

Well then, seems to me you should take a valuable lesson away from this experience yes?  Aside from your "lack" of trust in BW it seems.  I personally enjoyed DA2 but thats neither here nor there atm.  My point is, it's precisely for your situation alone that I always, ALWAYS go out of my way for demos when I can get my hands on them.  If I dont like the demo, I dont buy the game.  Simple as that.

Funny enough, demos may be great, but they give you a sample. If I had made my decision to buy or not buy DAO based on its demo, I wouldn't have bought it and missed out on a great game.  

The demo for DA2 didn't show exploding blood balloon enemies ( got to cut a darkspawn in half in a finishing move).  The darkspawn looked like they were just place holders for the actual darkspawn (since they were all idenctical marshmallow men).  I saw new combat. Then Flemeth shows up, and gives the impression that you are going to have more of Flemeth in the game then tiny amount in the demo. The only story you get is your family is fleeing and one sibling gets killed.  

I figured they would have you in Lothering so you would feel for those people and started the demo in the battle heavy fleeing it part, not that that was the beginning of the game.  So you may get a slight feel for the game, and if fast flashy combat is your thing...well the demo was a good indicator (sans enemies who swallow live grenades before they start combat).  But for the rest we had to rely on DA2's successor.  Which, judging from the amounts of supremely pissed off fans from DAO, they expected the demo to be a very shallow taste of the full course meal we were expecting.  I for one didn't expect the whole damn game to be one long shallow demo or dlc.

Oh, and if you want to bring up that tired old argument of "well why didn't you read the forums?" The reason for that is I play for the story, not the combat. I didn't want to have the story spoilered.  I wanted to judge it on it's own merits as the only thing I expected was for it to be different.  I didn't  know it would be different, disjointed and executed poorly (which is hardly worthy of BioWare the company).

edited for spelling.

And my word of mouth has been...well I didn't enjoy it for x, y, z and others did enjoy it despit x, y, z. You should rent it or play my version if you want to make up your own mine.

Modifié par erynnar, 18 avril 2011 - 09:59 .

[Jim_uk]

Volourn wrote...

"Bethesda admitted issues with Morrowind when they released Oblivion (combat, getting lost), now they're acknowledging the issues with Oblivion (dumbing down, bland world) in the lead up to Skyrim. It shows people that they listen to criticism and it shows they are open minded. Admitting mistakes is a sign of strength and confidence, it's not a weakness. "

Nah. They aren't criticizing those games because they think they're legit crits. They do it to pimp their next game Skyrim. All devs to it including BIO.

Put down their previous work in order to pimp their new work. They did it with ME in regards to ME1. They did it with DA2 in comparison to DA1. And, if (when) DA3 comes out, they'll be putting down DA2 as well to pimp DA3. And, even if DA3 get 90s across the baord, if a DA4 comes out they'll start criticizing DA3 too.

It's a way of claiming, hey, you don't like x in y ... guess what x is gone or is fixed in game z. L0L

The changes they made in Oblivion reflected the issues people have had with Morrowind, hardly just pimping the next game. Bethesda has a lot of faults but not listening isn't one of them.

[FellowerOfOdin]

Jim_uk wrote...



The changes they made in Oblivion reflected the issues people have had with Morrowind, hardly just pimping the next game. Bethesda has a lot of faults but not listening isn't one of them.

Don't mind him, he's just trolling around everywhere. Let it be Bioware socketpuppet or Biodrone...just don't feed the troll.

Agree with your point though and it's proven by Skyrim - a lot of stuff that really annoyed players will be removed or improved, e.g. the scaling of enemies. It's gonna be a tough battle for the GOTY award between Skyrim and the Witcher II.

[FellowerOfOdin]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

FellowerOfOdin wrote...

Jim_uk wrote...



The changes they made in Oblivion reflected the issues people have had with Morrowind, hardly just pimping the next game. Bethesda has a lot of faults but not listening isn't one of them.

Don't mind him, he's just trolling around everywhere. Let it be Bioware socketpuppet or Biodrone...just don't feed the troll.

Agree with your point though and it's proven by Skyrim - a lot of stuff that really annoyed players will be removed or improved, e.g. the scaling of enemies. It's gonna be a tough battle for the GOTY award between Skyrim and the Witcher II.

Well, what about ME3. That's undoubtedly going to be good.

Forgot about it, duh

Yeah, it's going to be between these three games...as long as they keep Mike Laidlaw THE HELL OUT OF THE ME3 STUDIO. 

Seriously. Don't screw the end of such a good trilogy please.

Each game has its strengths, let it be the grim, dark storyline for TW II, the sci-fi, moral scenario in ME3 or the Viking sandbox dragon fighting in Skyrim...it's a great year for RPG fans, DA:RtP left aside.

Then again, DA:RtP has one good thing: stuff can only get better after this..."game" was released.

[neppakyo]

FellowerOfOdin wrote...

Yeah, it's going to be between these three games...as long as they keep Mike Laidlaw THE HELL OUT OF THE ME3 STUDIO. 

I second this sentence.

I'll also add, keep him out of the DA studio as well.

Modifié par neppakyo, 18 avril 2011 - 10:46 .

[erynnar]

neppakyo wrote...

FellowerOfOdin wrote...

Yeah, it's going to be between these three games...as long as they keep Mike Laidlaw THE HELL OUT OF THE ME3 STUDIO. 

I second this sentence.

I'll also add, keep him out of the DA studio as well.

That would be my wish as well.

[The Corporate]

I don't think DA2 is a 'good' game by any significant measure. There are games with half the budget and a quarter of the dev time which provide double the content and enjoyment.

[toggled]

Aermord wrote...
Now back to Biowares interview and seemingly lack of understanding of the damage they have done. They are doing damage control now, except that it results in quite the opposite among their (former) fans,

I disagree with your statement that Bioware is in damage control mode... or at least it doesn't tell the whole story. I think Bioware is in total denial. Groupthink has taken over at Bioware HQ, and the groupthink is: our game is awesome! Anyone who doesn't like the game just hates change! 

To me, groupthink at Bioware is the most terrible thing to come from the fiasco known as Dragon Age 2. If someone refuses to recognize a problem, the problem won't be fixed; therefore, we can expect future Bioware titles to be just as lackluster at the most recent title.

[Merced652]

Aradace wrote...

Here's a question. If you played the demo, hated it, and then STILL went out and bought the game, why in the nine hells are you *****ing again?

You don't remember us ragging on the demo's gameplay only to have you god damn fanboys tell us its just the 'exaggerated part?' I remember, and i still giggle about it. Of course getting rickrolled for 60 dollars isn't something i'm going to get mad about. 

[erynnar]

toggled wrote...

Aermord wrote...
Now back to Biowares interview and seemingly lack of understanding of the damage they have done. They are doing damage control now, except that it results in quite the opposite among their (former) fans,

I disagree with your statement that Bioware is in damage control mode... or at least it doesn't tell the whole story. I think Bioware is in total denial. Groupthink has taken over at Bioware HQ, and the groupthink is: our game is awesome! Anyone who doesn't like the game just hates change! 

To me, groupthink at Bioware is the most terrible thing to come from the fiasco known as Dragon Age 2. If someone refuses to recognize a problem, the problem won't be fixed; therefore, we can expect future Bioware titles to be just as lackluster at the most recent title.

And that is the truly frightening part...groupthink...it's like the Borg...resistance makes you a hater and unable to take change into awesome button.