200 réponses à ce sujet

[Lalue]

hard to reply to Sabriana >< I always like what she have to say...sad panda ><

[Elhanan]

And yet another anti-posting thread on the free Bioware forums. Delightful....

[nekhbet]

My word of mouth would be to recommend the game to anyone who likes a post-modern story that shakes up the player's expectations and uses storytelling methods not usually seen in games. That's why I love DA2, anyway.

[AkiKishi]

nekhbet wrote...

My word of mouth would be to recommend the game to anyone who likes a post-modern story that shakes up the player's expectations and uses storytelling methods not usually seen in games. That's why I love DA2, anyway.

You just don't play the right games then. Framed narratives are two a penny. The key difference is that they generally don't just give away the ending before the begining, but rather catch up in real time at some point in the game.

Family is another one you commonly see in JRPGs, whether it's parents being killed, or going on an adventure with your "sister" (who it often turns out is not related by blood...) .

I can certainly see why someone who mainly plays Bioware games would see it as something new. But in the wider scheme of things, done as much the "big bad guy" and "save the world".

sorry old link was a static image with music

Here is another one from Alpha Protocol.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 19 avril 2011 - 11:23 .

[nekhbet]

Framed narrative isn't the only thing I liked. Though, I must say I am not familiar with JRPGs. I'd love to play more stories from the sidekick's PoV, if there's any you'd recommend.

[AkiKishi]

nekhbet wrote...

Framed narrative isn't the only thing I liked. Though, I must say I am not familiar with JRPGs. I'd love to play more stories from the sidekick's PoV, if there's any you'd recommend.

I'd probably go with FFX if you have access to a PS2. Without knowing what system it's hard to say. If you could elaborate on what you mean by "sidekick" that would help too.

One of the key subplots of FFX is Tidus' relationship with his father and his abandonment issues. You collect certain items to see the story from his fathers point of view.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 19 avril 2011 - 12:08 .

[Sabriana]

Lalue wrote...

hard to reply to Sabriana >< I always like what she have to say...sad panda ><

Now, now, don't be sad. I did come off a bit harsh, but I didn't mean to. I simply prefer links because I can save them and read them at home. There's nothing wrong with wishing to read them right away in a post. But some are quite long reads, so that would make for a long post. And you can bet that there would be at least one reply stating:

TL;DR

Have a cup-cake

[ejoslin]

Cataca wrote...

brownybrown wrote...

Yes, i expect the new lead designer of da3 to gently criticize da2 in order to win back fans.
Im interested in thinking about Bioware and how much they have taken the sales/criticisms of da2 to heart. if da3 brings back with elf/dwarf starting options (and off course differing origin stories) and a much longer development cycle that will be a big DA2 mea cupla by Bioware.

They cant and wont. After such an overwhelmingly positive(ish) flood of reviews and generally favourable press response to dragon age 2 that would do much more than just stain biowares name. The only issue right now are the metriatic user reviews and vocal critical responses on the social medias. Something that can and will be ignored, as long as the press will also stay quiet. 

The issue with word of mouth is, that its still not very public to the unintersted eye, but if somehow a whole system that they put their faith in "falls apart" thats a whole different story. As-is you can still put it off as the very vocal disliking minority. 

They absolutely can.  In fact, part of DA2's advertising was trashing DAO.  Now WHY they did that I'm not sure as DAO was insanely well received, but there you go.

Modifié par ejoslin, 19 avril 2011 - 12:47 .

[Persephone]

ejoslin wrote...

Cataca wrote...

brownybrown wrote...

Yes, i expect the new lead designer of da3 to gently criticize da2 in order to win back fans.
Im interested in thinking about Bioware and how much they have taken the sales/criticisms of da2 to heart. if da3 brings back with elf/dwarf starting options (and off course differing origin stories) and a much longer development cycle that will be a big DA2 mea cupla by Bioware.

They cant and wont. After such an overwhelmingly positive(ish) flood of reviews and generally favourable press response to dragon age 2 that would do much more than just stain biowares name. The only issue right now are the metriatic user reviews and vocal critical responses on the social medias. Something that can and will be ignored, as long as the press will also stay quiet. 

The issue with word of mouth is, that its still not very public to the unintersted eye, but if somehow a whole system that they put their faith in "falls apart" thats a whole different story. As-is you can still put it off as the very vocal disliking minority. 

They absolutely can.  In fact, part of DA2's advertising was trashing DAO.  Now WHY they did that I'm not sure as DAO was insanely well received, but there you go.

Ancient marketing device.

Working in Sales & Marketing myself, I hated both the DAO and DAII marketing campaigns. Would never have bought either based on that alone.

[Boiny Bunny]

Hehe...yes the DA:O marketing campaign was rubbish. Every time I watch that 'Sacred Ashes' trailer and see Morrigan's disgusting face it scares me. Thank goodness the game didn't turn out like that!

[ejoslin]

Persephone wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Cataca wrote...

brownybrown wrote...

Yes, i expect the new lead designer of da3 to gently criticize da2 in order to win back fans.
Im interested in thinking about Bioware and how much they have taken the sales/criticisms of da2 to heart. if da3 brings back with elf/dwarf starting options (and off course differing origin stories) and a much longer development cycle that will be a big DA2 mea cupla by Bioware.

They cant and wont. After such an overwhelmingly positive(ish) flood of reviews and generally favourable press response to dragon age 2 that would do much more than just stain biowares name. The only issue right now are the metriatic user reviews and vocal critical responses on the social medias. Something that can and will be ignored, as long as the press will also stay quiet. 

The issue with word of mouth is, that its still not very public to the unintersted eye, but if somehow a whole system that they put their faith in "falls apart" thats a whole different story. As-is you can still put it off as the very vocal disliking minority. 

They absolutely can.  In fact, part of DA2's advertising was trashing DAO.  Now WHY they did that I'm not sure as DAO was insanely well received, but there you go.

Ancient marketing device.

Working in Sales & Marketing myself, I hated both the DAO and DAII marketing campaigns. Would never have bought either based on that alone.

Now, see, I worked for a small company with a niche market -- since it was small (under 20 people), we all had our hands in the customer service part of things.

First thing we did was take care of our existing customers.  We relied on them to talk about how good we were.  There's no way we would have trashed a previous version of our product to try and make our current version sound good.  In fact, we did the opposite -- we focused on what was already good, and how we improved things.  We also understood how important the established customer base was -- it's hard work getting customers, it's best to stick with the customers you have than trash them hoping others will take their place.

But no matter, I was just responding to someone saying that couldn't do it.  Of course they can -- they did and will continue to do so.  That doesn't make it smart.

Modifié par ejoslin, 19 avril 2011 - 01:26 .

[Lyna357]

Word of mouth is a powerful marketing tool. I did not buy DA: Origins when it first came out, being was a new franchise. I do not buy games simply because of a developer name but do some research and asking around first. I liked what I saw/heard about Origins.

Others have mentioned Shadow of the Colossus. I was browsing in a game store one day, looking for a new rpg ('bout the only genre I play). I had never heard of the game when a clerk recommended it. I asked if he had played it and what it was like. He said he had, and highly recommended it, so I bought it.

I had high hopes as well as bad feelings about the first info surrounding DA II. I did play the PC demo of II ... and decided it could definitely wait until later. I am glad I waited.

[abaris]

ejoslin wrote...

They absolutely can.  In fact, part of DA2's advertising was trashing DAO.  Now WHY they did that I'm not sure as DAO was insanely well received, but there you go.

They're trashing an old pair of shoes to make the new one look all the more shiny.

From a marketing standpoint it would be insanity at its purest to spit on the new born baby.

People, take a step back and take a breather. I guess, most of you are actually earning a living. And now think about what your bosses would say if you ventured out to tell the world, the newest product is garbage.

This is a corporation we're talking about, shareholders included. Its not as if Laidlaw or any other public figure could step out and say, OK buddies, we've screwed up, come on, have a beer. Such a move would have serious implications. Least of all, them being fired - the ensuing lawsuit for slandering would be the real problem.

[brownybrown]

Yes , the only way we will get the real dirt is if someone leaves bioware (and has no intentions of going back)
DA3, the story line, the surrounding marketing babble and the length of game development time will also reveal Bioware's true verdict on da2.

[spernus]

Word of mouth has definitively killed momentum for Dragon Age 2 and as such the game won't have legs and Bioware know this. The free ME2 is far more than a mere celebration of having 1 million copies sold faster than DA:O.

Heck, DA had very good legs which made it the best selling Bioware game ever. Word of mouth is often what end up creating commercial phenomenon ( Call of Duty, Gran theft auto, World of Warcraft, Wii, Ipod, etc ) or sinking a mediocre product which had a lot of marketing and promotion behind it. Bad word of mouth sinked the mediocre Pearl Harbor movie and many other overhyped movies or TV shows, while it has a very positive effect on True Blood which ended up the first season with decent ratings and yet outsold Heroes as the best selling TV boxset ( season 1 ).

I must add that I helped generating a couple of purchase for DA as I kept talking about it in a positive light, but it's the contrary for DA2 to be sure.

Modifié par spernus, 19 avril 2011 - 02:54 .

[Foolsfolly]

Friends are not recommending DA2 to each other, they warn each other against it.

Now that the patch is out and some of the horrible godawful bugs are fixed (although not all bugs, like import bugs remain) that's one part down before I can start recommending it to people.

The last thing is it needs to drop in price. Once it hits 30 dollars and is patched up, it'll be worth the money. But 60 dollars for a buggy, meh story'd game? God. I was a fool to buy it opening night.

I did not believe the early European reviews. I did not believe Adam Sessler. I should have at least thought about those things. Fanboyism, eh? What a system.

[Foolsfolly]

spernus wrote...

Word of mouth has definitively killed momentum for Dragon Age 2 and as such the game won't have legs and Bioware know this. The free ME2 is far more than a mere celebration of having 1 million copies sold faster than DA:O.

Heck, DA had very good legs which made it the best selling Bioware game ever. Word of mouth is often what end up creating commercial phenomenon ( Call of Duty, Gran theft auto, World of Warcraft, Wii, Ipod, etc ) or sinking a mediocre product which had a lot of marketing and promotion behind it. Bad word of mouth sinked the mediocre Pearl Harbor movie and many other overhyped movies or TV shows, while it has a very positive effect on True Blood which ended up the first season with decent ratings and yet outsold Heroes as the best selling TV boxset ( season 1 ).

I must add that I helped generating a couple of purchase for DA as I kept talking about it in a positive light, but it's the contrary for DA2 to be sure.

Is there numbers about that? Only thing I've heard about sales is that 1 million faster than DA:O thing everyone wouldn't shut up about.

[abaris]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Is there numbers about that? Only thing I've heard about sales is that 1 million faster than DA:O thing everyone wouldn't shut up about.

As far as I know, shipped is the operative word, not sold.

[Kilshrek]

Me and the my only other RPG playing friend are both disappointed with DA 2, and wouldn't really recommend it to anyone who bothered asking. If they asked for a good RPG I'd have to recommend something old(because TW 2 isn't out yet and there really isn't anything else out there), or if they just wanted a new game there's Crysis 2, Portal 2, Shogun 2(CA never really have bug-free games but, Shogun 2!), a whole catalogue of games which I believe offer better value for money.

Modifié par Kilshrek, 19 avril 2011 - 03:19 .

[Fallstar]

Gavinthelocust wrote...

Aradace wrote...

Here's a question. If you played the demo, hated it, and then STILL went out and bought the game, why in the nine hells are you *****ing again?

Because otherwise they wouldn't be able to register their game and **** in the registered only sections.
Or because people are stupid, either one is correct.

That or most people just aren't ignorant enough to base their perceptions of an entire game on 1 hour's gamplay?

Edit: Back on topic, I have only two other friends who played Origins. I told both not to get it, one bought in anyway then traded it in towards crysis 2, the other took our combined advice. I kept my copy because it was a SE and the box looks good. :/

Modifié par SirLogical, 19 avril 2011 - 03:28 .

[ejoslin]

SirLogical wrote...

Gavinthelocust wrote...

Aradace wrote...

Here's a question. If you played the demo, hated it, and then STILL went out and bought the game, why in the nine hells are you *****ing again?

Because otherwise they wouldn't be able to register their game and **** in the registered only sections.
Or because people are stupid, either one is correct.

That or most people just aren't ignorant enough to base their perceptions of an entire game on 1 hour's gamplay?

Edit: Back on topic, I have only two other friends who played Origins. I told both not to get it, one bought in anyway then traded it in towards crysis 2, the other took our combined advice. I kept my copy because it was a SE and the box looks good. :/

You know, Origins is not going to appeal to all people.  Many people do not like oldskool RPGs.  That's fine.  However, many many people DO love them and there really aren't many of them made, so it's a market that should have some attention paid to it as there's not much competition there.

Origins was just such a good game that people who normally don't buy RPGs did buy it.  And many people who don't normally like RPGs liked it but wanted it to be more like "insert other genre here" because that's they're prefered gaming style.  While there's nothing wrong with THAT per se, I think DA2 would have done better had they built upon DAO realizing just how insanely successful it was and retaining their old customers and HOPING it was good enough (as Origins was) to draw people who nomrally play other genres as well.  Rebuilding everything,from the artwork, level design, UI, AI, combat, character models with an already limited timeframe may not have been the best choice.  Then again, it's easy enough for me to armchair quarterback I suppose.

The problem with DA2 is not that people fear change, but that many people just like the old RPG genre and are not interested in switching to an action/rpg hybred.  If they were going to do it, it had to be fantastic in order to pull it off.  But there are glaring flaws.  And the core audience IS going to badmouth it.

Funny thing is even positive reviews for the most part say, "Solid game if you take it on its own, but it's no Origins."  That's my feeling about it.  It's a decent game.  But it does not come close to the game it's following.

Modifié par ejoslin, 19 avril 2011 - 05:46 .

[Volourn]

"Yes , the only way we will get the real dirt is if someone leaves bioware (and has no intentions of going back)"

Nah. You can't really take former employees at their word since they are often very bitter and hateful and too self egostical to trust. As an ex employee they are likely to bash them to make themselves look better.


I sure as heck wouldn't trust an ex employee to say teh truth. At best, you'd get their perception which as a human will always be skewed in their favor for obvious reasons.

[aries1001]

As a somewhat oldschool player, that played BG1 and BG2 for several hundred hours, I feel the need to remind some of you that even in these games enemies and monsters - exploded. It was called chunking and was the result of a critical hit + getting a score of minus 10 against them. Back in 1998 or 1999 when BG1 came out, many of the old school players hated, yes hated the combat in BG1; they've found it to be too actiony, not turnbased enough. I liked it, partly because I don't have the patience to play turnbased, partly because I like the combat to be as easy for me as possible. [I simply don't have the reflexes to play combos or some other stuff, hence the combat in Witcher 1 was and is a real trial for me, but I'm still playing it because of the great story].

In DA: Origins, I hated it when I told for instance Alistair to attack and enemy and he just stood there; I needed to tell him to move necxt to the enemy, so he could swing his sword, maybe, if he felt like it. As such, I like the new combat in Dragon Age 2; it does feel more responsive and the characters generally do what I tell them to do....within seconds, not minutes...(as in DA: Origins). I also like what seems to be great story.....

[Kilshrek]

@ aries1001

Though 'chunking', now gibbing in perhaps more modern times, was not a matter of course. It didn't happen every other time you hit an opponent. And I'm sure BG 1 and 2 didn't have these cool killamations where you sliced the head off an enemy, or did this little twirl and... but anyway didn't you have to do that(telling party members what to do) in BG 1 and 2 anyway? It's been a long time since I've played them but I do recall pausing at the start of combat, issuing orders, watching said orders carried out, pause again, issue more orders, watch more combat, finish. Not so very different from DAO, to me at least.

[Mecher3k]

brownybrown wrote...

Yes , the only way we will get the real dirt is if someone leaves bioware (and has no intentions of going back)

Done already, Brent Knowles.

Lead Designer of DA:O. Left Bioware because of the direction DA2 was going.