843 réponses à ce sujet

[MorrigansLove]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

In ME it's fair enough ME was always going to be a trilogy.

Then why isn't it also "fair enough" as Dragon Age was always going to be about Thedas?

MorrigansLove wrote...

So you agree the game is NOT finished, then?

I'd agree the level design wasn't.

What about Act 3 of Dragon Age 2? Was that finished?

[AkiKishi]

Filament wrote...
Who says it's necessary if the choices ultimately don't matter in any meaningful way because the devs don't want to step on anyone's canon? If it either ends with one basic endgame world state where the devs will only have one initial path to worry about going forward, or multiple world states where the devs either don't address the difference or come up with some contrivance to funnel the diverging paths back into one anyway, I wouldn't say either route is clearly superior.

This is why FF despite being the same franchise name only rarely uses the same world in -2 games. And FF's have a fixed outcome for the most part.

If you are using the idea that the players choices matter in marketing though, then you should not be suprised when you are taken to task when it proves not to be the case.

Biowares design model is horribly wasteful based on the statistical analysis of gamer behaviour.

[Any0day]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Any0day wrote...

You can laugh all the way to the gamestop - but at the end of the day DA2 made us pay money to have absolutely nothing resolved or answered before smacking us with a big ''to be continued...''

I'm confused, is it still about the journey, not the destination?

Because if it isn't I wasted my time playing DAO to find out the Archdemon died.  

Maybe I'm seriously mentally challenged.. but --- what journey exactly?
The entire premise of the game was building up to that interrogation scene - they made that very explicitly apparent to the player right from the start.
So here we are with huge problems that get built up by the narrative "he could have never foreseen what would have went down" -- when I heard that line out of Varric I was like "Okay! Now it's gunna get good... Oh I resolved it in a half hour... Okay?"

There was no 'journey' it was a set of stories or situations loosely put together by a narrative that was vastly unrewarding because by the time you get there they tell you to buy the next game to find out what happens!!! ...

That isn't a rewarding journey or a rewarding resolution. It's like taking a harry potter book and randomly cutting the book in half, handing it to someone and saying '' here, read this and enjoy '' then they find out you only gave them half the damn book because it cuts off randomly without any kind of resolution. Then, on top of that you dare to charge them extra for the end of a story they should have had to begin with.

Seriously, maybe I'm just arguing artistic differences here and this entire post is pointless.

Modifié par Any0day, 18 avril 2011 - 08:20 .

[jds1bio]

Any0day wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

MorrigansLove wrote...

They've just been completely f**ked over, because they have no idea what happened to any one at the end of the game and basically Bioware said "**** you, we don't care, if you don't spend more money, then you don't get to find out what happened to anyone, and you just wasted 60+ hours of your life." This is not acceptable, in my opinion, and Bioware should be ashamed. You should also be ashamed for thinking it's okay for people to spend their hard earned money, and then being ****ed over with a pointless, unsatisfying ending.

Thanks for that, I needed a good laugh.   You should stay away from fiction, it seems to do awful things to your blood pressure when it doesn't turn out the way you like.

But... He's right --- lol.
You can laugh all the way to the gamestop - but at the end of the day DA2 made us pay money to have absolutely nothing resolved or answered before smacking us with a big ''to be continued...''

Hey, I'm all for cliffhangers... but you have to give a little back first, and they didn't.

That's all I was asking for at the end.

[upsettingshorts]

MorrigansLove wrote...

What about Act 3 of Dragon Age 2? Was that finished?

Yup.  ThoughtAct 1 was bloated, and could have been redistributed in terms of content between 2-3 I felt.

The only thing I think one could add to Act 3 is showing how Hawke and Varric got separated, but even that might be revealing too much.  It depends.

Any0day wrote...

Seriously, maybe I'm just arguing artistic differences here

That would be more or less my response.  And responding in kind saves me the trouble of describing how DAO left me feeling similar, for different reasons, about how dull it all was.  

People have preferences when it comes to their entertainment, that's for certain. 

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 18 avril 2011 - 08:23 .

[Everwarden]

Upsettingshorts wrote...
Then don't, read about them in a Wiki after the next thing comes out.  If you're emotionally invested enough in the narrative though, you'll probably want to continue to influence events - and that's when the "pay more money" stuff comes in.

Of course, it's entirely reasonable for you to buy three quarters of a game and then get charged extra for the ending. That's not worth complaining about at all. No one ever said the game would be self contained! If you thought you were buying a self-contained, polished product from a AAA game developer, well that's just -your- fault!

/sarcasm off

As an aside I'm -not- emotionally invested enough to give a rat's ass what Hawke is doing, so I actually won't have any problem following that "then don't" advice. I just hope that DA3 just pretends that nothing in DA2 happened. Just a bad dream, like Super Mario 2. 

[jds1bio]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Biowares design model is horribly wasteful based on the statistical analysis of gamer behaviour.

Maybe that's why they stuck The Arrival in, to perhaps soften the blow of starting ME3 with a possible reset.

[AkiKishi]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Then why isn't it also "fair enough" as Dragon Age was always going to be about Thedas?

Because about Thedas does not mean a trilogy it just means games set in the same world. Like the Forgotten Realms games.

[upsettingshorts]

Everwarden wrote...

Of course, it's entirely reasonable for you to buy three quarters of a game and then get charged extra for the ending. That's not worth complaining about at all. No one ever said the game would be self contained! If you thought you were buying a self-contained, polished product from a AAA game developer, well that's just -your- fault!

/sarcasm off

I bought a full game that was about an interrogation by one character about the events surrounding another character.   Events that already took place.  The interrogation was completed.  

But if you'd like to use a misleading interpretation of my posts as a launching pad for your sarcastic catharsis, I wouldn't judge you.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 18 avril 2011 - 08:26 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Filament wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

It is necessary to have choices that matter, Bioware do not make jRPGs they base their games completley on stories with choices and have said so themselves. It's something they pride themselves on and seporates them from the generic story only developers out there.

Who says it's necessary if the choices ultimately don't matter in any meaningful way because the devs don't want to step on anyone's canon? If it either ends with one basic endgame world state where the devs will only have one initial path to worry about going forward, or multiple world states where the devs either don't address the difference or come up with some contrivance to funnel the diverging paths back into one anyway, I wouldn't say either route is clearly superior.

I say it's necessary.. I used those words aka I said them.

DAO, ME2, both could kill off your main character Warden or Shepherd that is a choice Bioware have let players have and if players in DAO wanted to carry on in DLC they could make a new warden or start again and this time let it live, ME2 they let people have the option of killing of shepherd too. DA2 is different due to the influence of Mike and his ideal of simplification to broaden the appeal. Bioware (in the past) don't pick the easy option they want people to have choices and they want them to matter. If they go too far down another route they lose what it is that made them unique and differentiates them from other developers in the RPG genre. In the case of ME2 and Arrival as a optional DLC seporate from the game. The choices in the game itself are what matter the most, DLC is optional. 

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 18 avril 2011 - 08:32 .

[MorrigansLove]

I also hate how Mike Laidlaw lied in dev diary 2 for Dragon Age 2. He said at the end, we may achieve a superpower or command an army when becoming the Champion of Kirkwall. All lies. Can't defend that, can you, Upsettingshorts?

[Dave of Canada]

The story was about Hawke's involvement in the world at the brink of war, not about Hawke stopping the war. Sorry if that's not what you wanted for the ending, though don't call it incomplete because you don't like it. You got what you were promised, you're disappointed because of your own expectations.

[upsettingshorts]

MorrigansLove wrote...

I also hate how Mike Laidlaw lied in dev diary 2 for Dragon Age 2. He said at the end, we may achieve a superpower or command an army when becoming the Champion of Kirkwall. All lies. Can't defend that, can you, Upsettingshorts?

Find me the exact quote, and if I can't fit in an interpretation of either endstate to his quote, I won't?  

Also, you're moving the goalposts around so much I'm developing whiplash.  Why not pick what this conversation is about and stick to it, instead of randomly picking from your list of "Things MorrigansLove hated about Dragon Age 2."  I am not your personal DA2 experience counselor.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 18 avril 2011 - 08:28 .

[Dave of Canada]

MorrigansLove wrote...

I also hate how Mike Laidlaw lied in dev diary 2 for Dragon Age 2. He said at the end, we may achieve a superpower or command an army when becoming the Champion of Kirkwall. All lies. Can't defend that, can you, Upsettingshorts?

Don't recall him saying that but...

Without spoilers, my Hawke all but does have that? Are you trying to nitpick and not even thinking of what you're saying at the moment because you're unable to be rational when DA2 is involved?

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 18 avril 2011 - 08:28 .

[MorrigansLove]

4:30.

[Everwarden]

Upsettingshorts wrote...
I bought a full game

You did? Was that the secret, super-special edition that they only sold to you? Because the DA2 that I played was a sloppy, rushed mess that had no ending. 

[Volourn]

"I also hate how Mike Laidlaw lied in dev diary 2 for Dragon Age 2. He said at the end, we may achieve a superpower or command an army when becoming the Champion of Kirkwall. All lies. Can't defend that, can you, Upsettingshorts?"

Not a lie. Things change over course of development. No doubt they said things about DA1 pre release that changed. One instance is that at one point BIo claimed there would be 4 playable races yet in the final version there is only 3. R00fles!

[Dave of Canada]

Everwarden wrote...

You did? Was that the secret, super-special edition that they only sold to you? Because the DA2 that I played was a sloppy, rushed mess that had no ending. 

"I don't like it" =/= incomplete game.

[upsettingshorts]

MorrigansLove wrote...



4:30.

Oh, this one is easy.  He posed a question, "What is the Champion of Kirkwall?" and then listed a number of possible answers.  Then said you'll find out when you play the game.

No promises contained therein, only that you'll find out.

Even if the response is, "I found out and it sucked, I hated it" it's still not a lie.

Everwarden wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...
I bought a full game

You did? Was that the secret, super-special edition that they only sold to you? Because the DA2 that I played was a sloppy, rushed mess that had no ending.

The interrogation did end.  Cassandra left the room.  I saw it. 

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 18 avril 2011 - 08:34 .

[TJSolo]

Dave of Canada wrote...

The story was about Hawke's involvement in the world at the brink of war, not about Hawke stopping the war. Sorry if that's not what you wanted for the ending, though don't call it incomplete because you don't like it. You got what you were promised, you're disappointed because of your own expectations.

I am disappointed because "Enjoy the game's atypical, story-within-a-story nonlinear narrative style" stops being truthful after the word atypical.

Man, I am being kind. If this was last week I would of called that line a lie after Enjoy.

[Volourn]

DA2 had an ending. You have to be drunk not to realzie that. The fact you disliked the ending is useless info nor do it make the game unfinished.

[MorrigansLove]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

MorrigansLove wrote...

I also hate how Mike Laidlaw lied in dev diary 2 for Dragon Age 2. He said at the end, we may achieve a superpower or command an army when becoming the Champion of Kirkwall. All lies. Can't defend that, can you, Upsettingshorts?

Find me the exact quote, and if I can't fit in an interpretation of either endstate to his quote, I won't?  

Also, you're moving the goalposts around so much I'm developing whiplash.  Why not pick what this conversation is about and stick to it, instead of randomly picking from your list of "Things MorrigansLove hated about Dragon Age 2."  I am not your personal DA2 experience counselor.

I'm only doing that, because I think it's funny how you're defending the undefendable. Cliffhangers cannot be justified unless they are done like Empire Strikes Back where we know what has happened to all the characters, and are not left hanging.

[Volourn]

"Cliffhangers cannot be justified unless they are done like Empire Strikes Back where we know what has happened to all the characters, and are not left hanging."

Bull. Cliffhangers are awesome. Then again, you just quoted a lame SW movie so can'tt ake you seriously at all. L0LZ

[Dave of Canada]

MorrigansLove wrote...

I'm only doing that, because I think it's funny how you're defending the undefendable.

What makes something "undefendable"? What's the criteria? Do you have a checklist exclusive to Morriganslove or is it for everybody else in the universe?

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 18 avril 2011 - 08:36 .

[upsettingshorts]

MorrigansLove wrote...

I'm only doing that, because I think it's funny how you're defending the undefendable.

*holding down laughter*

MorrigansLove wrote...

Cliffhangers cannot be justified unless they are done like Empire Strikes Back where we know what has happened to all the characters, and are not left hanging.

I'm glad you're deciding the rules for fiction and my possible level of enjoyment of it for me.