843 réponses à ce sujet

[MorrigansLove]

Volourn wrote...

"Cliffhangers cannot be justified unless they are done like Empire Strikes Back where we know what has happened to all the characters, and are not left hanging."

Bull. Cliffhangers are awesome. Then again, you just quoted a lame SW movie so can'tt ake you seriously at all. L0LZ

I see. And with that, MorrigansLove's head exploded.

[MorrigansLove]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

MorrigansLove wrote...

I'm only doing that, because I think it's funny how you're defending the undefendable.

*holding down laughter*

MorrigansLove wrote...

Cliffhangers cannot be justified unless they are done like Empire Strikes Back where we know what has happened to all the characters, and are not left hanging.

I'm glad you're deciding the rules for fiction and my possible level of enjoyment of it for me.

I've been trying to hold my laughter of how lost you are throughout this entire argument.

[Mecher3k]

Volourn wrote...

"Cliffhangers cannot be justified unless they are done like Empire Strikes Back where we know what has happened to all the characters, and are not left hanging."

Bull. Cliffhangers are awesome. Then again, you just quoted a lame SW movie so can'tt ake you seriously at all. L0LZ

Ok people, just ignore this idiot.

[upsettingshorts]

MorrigansLove wrote...

I've been trying to hold my laughter of how lost you are throughout this entire argument.

Clearly I'm in way over my head.  I'm in awe of your dizzying intellect.  You assemble strawmans and distribute them at random throughout a thread at a speed I didn't think was possible!

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 18 avril 2011 - 08:42 .

[Volourn]

sw fanboy alert! sw fanboy alert! sw fanboy alert!

This is a DA series forum.. take your sw fanboy ism to www.bio.starwarskotor.com

[Romantiq]

For my fellow DA2 fans. I love you guys.

[Mecher3k]

As I said, ignore Volourn.

[AkiKishi]

Dave of Canada wrote...

MorrigansLove wrote...

I'm only doing that, because I think it's funny how you're defending the undefendable.

What makes something "undefendable"? What's the criteria? Do you have a checklist exclusive to Morriganslove or is it for everybody else in the universe?

Well depending on how harsh you wanted to be you could call DA2's marketing anything from misleading to lying.

Let's take the basic premise of the game.

Rise to Power over a decade..

A decade meant 7 years of time skips and 3 years of play time.

Rise to power... Did being Champion of Kirkwall do anything ? Not really. Where is the power ? The Warden had power, you saw it in the way he interacted with the world.
The Champion of Kirkwall is still getting jumped by hordes of nameless bandits who obviously never got the memo.

[MorrigansLove]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

MorrigansLove wrote...

I've been trying to hold my laughter of how lost you are throughout this entire argument.

Clearly I'm in way over my head.  I'm in awe of your dizzying intellect.  You assemble strawmans at a speed I didn't think was possible!

I can imagine you're laughing so hard right now because you find yourself so funny.

[upsettingshorts]

Oh if we're going to talk about Bioware's marketing I'm going to switch from defense to offense. Is that what the discussion is about now?

MorrigansLove wrote...

I can imagine you're laughing so hard right now because you find yourself so funny.

I do, but only because you provide such good material.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 18 avril 2011 - 08:45 .

[Any0day]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

MorrigansLove wrote...

Cliffhangers cannot be justified unless they are done like Empire Strikes Back where we know what has happened to all the characters, and are not left hanging.

I'm glad you're deciding the rules for fiction and my possible level of enjoyment of it for me.

Let's try to move away from the personal snickering.
I think the point is, at least from my point of view, is if you're going to end the game with a cliffhanger - something major has to be resolved in the process of coming to that cliff hanger. Let's not argue the significance of Hawk's story, because it's undeniable that a lot of people (including myself) felt it was unrewarding.

If you have a story that for the most part, is unrewarding, any cliffhanger is going to feel like a slap in the face.

[upsettingshorts]

But that's a subjective evaluation of both the story (whether or not it was unrewarding) and the nature of the cliffhanger. Liking it or not is perfectly fine.

What doesn't stand up to scrutiny is the idea that it is unfinished, or shameful to have enjoyed it.  However it is understandable to feel ripped off - everyone should feel like they get their money's worth from entertainment.   That doesn't really justify the kind of vitriol that perpetuates the forums, however.

DA2 - the game itself, not the marketing - led me to expect that I would witness, through an interrogation, the story of Hawke and how he became important.  By the end of Dragon Age 2, I knew precisely that - though nothing more.  I can see that if you expected more, this would be a problem.  I did not.  Does Bioware's marketing know how to manage expectations for its own games?  Not really, no.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 18 avril 2011 - 08:49 .

[MorrigansLove]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Oh if we're going to talk about Bioware's marketing I'm going to switch from defense to offense. Is that what the discussion is about now?

MorrigansLove wrote...

I can imagine you're laughing so hard right now because you find yourself so funny.

I do, but only because you provide such good material.

As do you, you comedic mastermind.

[VanTesla]

I love Bioware but I feel this game was rushed and poorly implemented.

Bethesda sucks for always being broken games at the start and low grade story... Haven't played a cd/projekt game yet. Funny as well that I play all types of games and im young, but still think this game is mediocre.

Modifié par VanTesla, 18 avril 2011 - 08:54 .

[AkiKishi]

Any0day wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

MorrigansLove wrote...

Cliffhangers cannot be justified unless they are done like Empire Strikes Back where we know what has happened to all the characters, and are not left hanging.

I'm glad you're deciding the rules for fiction and my possible level of enjoyment of it for me.

Let's try to move away from the personal snickering.
I think the point is, at least from my point of view, is if you're going to end the game with a cliffhanger - something major has to be resolved in the process of coming to that cliff hanger. Let's not argue the significance of Hawk's story, because it's undeniable that a lot of people (including myself) felt it was unrewarding.

If you have a story that for the most part, is unrewarding, any cliffhanger is going to feel like a slap in the face.

You normally get resolution and then the thread to a possible new story. Final Fantasy XIII , the ending is both resolved and at the same time left open. Probably why we have FFXIII-2 popping up later this year.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 18 avril 2011 - 08:49 .

[Any0day]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

What doesn't stand up to scrutiny is the idea that it is unfinished, or shameful to have enjoyed it.

I don't know where it was inferred that it's ''shameful to have enjoyed it'' - I enjoyed parts of DA2 myself. I think overall, it was a bad game though; one of which barely resembles a rpg by genre standards.

Now to say it's ''not unfinished,'' however is false, just because you happened to enjoy it.
If half the community feels it is unfinished, why would it be so that your vote carries ultimate weight?

[MorrigansLove]

Upsettingshorts, watch this.

[upsettingshorts]

Any0day wrote...

I don't know where it was inferred that it's ''shameful to have enjoyed it'' - I enjoyed parts of DA2 myself. I think overall, it was a bad game though; one of which barely resembles a rpg by genre standards.

Well, it wasn't you.  And it had all the stuff I wanted from a Bioware game.  But moving on:

Any0day wrote...

Now to say it's ''not unfinished,'' however is false, just because you happened to enjoy it.
If half the community feels it is unfinished, why would it be so that your vote carries ultimate weight?

If we're talking about the story, then we gotta evaluate it based on the context it provides us, do we not?  The story begins with Varric being dragged into an interrogation.  The story ends with Cassandra leaving the interrogation.  

The level design, or implementation of certain features, etc that's all very different. 

Ultimately however my "vote" doesn't carry any more weight than anyone else's, and I don't expect it to.  But there's little point in arguing any opinion other than your own.

MorrigansLove wrote...



Upsettingshorts, watch this.

Doing so.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 18 avril 2011 - 08:54 .

[AkiKishi]

Any0day wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

What doesn't stand up to scrutiny is the idea that it is unfinished, or shameful to have enjoyed it.

I don't know where it was inferred that it's ''shameful to have enjoyed it'' - I enjoyed parts of DA2 myself. I think overall, it was a bad game though; one of which barely resembles a rpg by genre standards.

Now to say it's ''not unfinished,'' however is false, just because you happened to enjoy it.
If half the community feels it is unfinished, why would it be so that your vote carries ultimate weight?

Act 3 from the Mages side was a nonsensical disjointed mess. No idea what it was like from the other side. You would have to pay me to replay DA2.

Upsettingshorts wrote...

If we're talking about the story, then we gotta evaluate it based on the context it provides us, do we not?  The story begins with Varric being dragged into an interrogation.  The story ends with Cassandra leaving the interrogation.  

Blaming Varric ? 

Modifié par BobSmith101, 18 avril 2011 - 08:56 .

[senjukannon]

Brilliant post. I applaud you OP

[upsettingshorts]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Blaming Varric ? 

Blame?  What are you talking about?  The story begins with him being dragged into an interrogation.  The story ends with the interrogation ending.  I wasn't saying anything else, except about the marketing.  If I'm blaming anyone for anything, it's probably them.

Edit: Wait, I can blame Varric for something.  Not lampshading the reused areas.

Cassandra: "Wait, this house looks the same as the last one?"
Varric: "Look sister, do you want me to tell you all about the interior design or stick to the story?"
Cassandra:  "...fine."

Re: The video

He makes at least one factual error that is the basis of one of his major arguments.  You do know who "the redhead" is even if you did not play DAO, you see if you do the Sister Nightengale sidequest.  She introduces herself, her reason for being in Kirkwall, and her role in Thedas.  In his research-based ending comment based on DAO, he also doesn't know this.

The rest is all opinion, and he's entitled to it.  I didn't mind not knowing those things, because I didn't expect Varric to be an encyclopedia of knowledge regarding every single secondary and side character.  

Seems to me this guy got 70 hours of enjoyment out of the game - which is roughly double my own first playthrough - and decided the whole game itself was ****ty.  He gives the game an 8/10 calling the gameplay, story, and content exceptional - which is higher than the Metacritic.  He also says that the ending decision was made for money reasons, and I have a hard time following that logic.  How expensive would DAO epilogue cards have been had they chosen to do them?

Yes, I watched the whole thing.  

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 18 avril 2011 - 09:07 .

[TJSolo]

He makes at least one factual error that is the basis of one of his major arguments. You do know who "the redhead" is even if you did not play DAO, you see if you do the Sister Nightengale sidequest. She introduces herself, her reason for being in Kirkwall, and her role in Thedas. In his research-based ending comment based on DAO, he also doesn't know this.

You need the Exiled Prince DLC for that quest.

[AkiKishi]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Blame?  What are you talking about?  The story begins with him being dragged into an interrogation.  The story ends with the interrogation ending.  It's a frame narrative.  Some people really don't like it.  

Well if you see it that way it's obviously Varrics fault for being a bad storyteller when it came to the Hawke part.

Like I said pages ago framed narratives are two a penny, the good ones catch up in real time at some point. If they never catch up, then you just end up giving away the ending before you even start.

[MorrigansLove]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Blaming Varric ? 

Blame?  What are you talking about?  The story begins with him being dragged into an interrogation.  The story ends with the interrogation ending.  I wasn't saying anything else, except about the marketing.  If I'm blaming anyone for anything, it's probably them.

Re: The video

He makes at least one factual error that is the basis of one of his major arguments.  You do know who "the redhead" is even if you did not play DAO, you see if you do the Sister Nightengale sidequest.  She introduces herself, her reason for being in Kirkwall, and her role in Thedas.  In his research-based ending comment based on DAO, he also doesn't know this.

The rest is all opinion, and he's entitled to it.  I didn't mind not knowing those things, because I didn't expect Varric to be an encyclopedia of knowledge regarding every single secondary and side character.  

Seems to me this guy got 70 hours of enjoyment out of the game - which is more than me - and decided the whole game itself was ****ty.  He gives the game an 8/10 calling the gameplay, story, and content exceptional - which is higher than the Metacritic.  He also says that the ending decision was made for money reasons, and I have a hard time following that logic.  How expensive would DAO epilogue cards have been had they chosen to do them?

Yes, I watched the whole thing.  

Why do you have a hard time following the logic behind that? You seriously believe Bioware made the Dragon Age 2 ending with the player in thought?

[upsettingshorts]

TJSolo wrote...

You need the Exiled Prince DLC for that quest.

Ah, I understand.  Yes, that would be a problem I think.  Even then, I'm not sure what knowing the truth reveals.  She's another Seeker, someone Cassandra considers herself either an equal to or below given how they interact in the end.  I'm not sure what knowing tells me about that scene other than the link to the Warden, which would - as he said - only matter to players of DAO anyway.