843 réponses à ce sujet

[Persephone]

Maccyds wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Maccyds wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Maccyds wrote...

Persephone wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Maccyds wrote...

Persephone, I just signed up to ask, do you have life? Seriously, I read these forums from time to time, and there is ONE person who is ALWAYS posting and that one person is YOU! I mean, come on, get a life, go outside, enjoy the fresh air, stop being cramped up in your hole eating crisps/pizza and arguing about if DA2 is a good game or not, because seriously, you only live once. Had to get that off my chest, because I've been wanting to say that for weeks.

Or she could be at work using multiple windows. Not much else to do if you are using the computer anyway for some other purpose.

While I am not at the office right now (Supposedly I am on holiday), I still do much of my work on the Laptop. I even take it with me everywhere, due to heavy work correspondence. Shocking, I know. Posting on forums is usually a stress relief in my case.

You say you're on holiday, and you go on DA forums? Really? Wow...

While I'm working on the laptop, yes. I'm sadly not on a holiday in Greece, just having some time off. Still working a lot every day.

As for a life...I have as much of a life as those who bludgeon every positive DAII to death and spend hours every day to belittle, mock and trash those who dare to like DAII. Works both ways, you see?

Everyone on these forums arguing about a game should get a life, but I'm specifically talking about you as I always see you commenting, every bloody time. It annoys me that someone would waste their life away just like that. So to say that ^ doesn't really mean anything, unless you're admitting you don't have a life.................................................................................................................................

Why are we turning this into a personal discussion again? I don't see how I'm obligated to justify my choices here. Personally, I love my life. Good job, best man in the world, a horse to keep me fit & awesome friends online as well as offline. Case closed.

Case closed? What are we, in CSI?

No. I am simply done explaining my personal life to a complete stranger on the Internet.

[KillTheLastRomantic]

I'm 20 and my brother and I would both fit firmly into the "hardcore RPG gamer" category.I don't think its solely older people.

[AudioEpics]

I like Persephone. She's willing to brave a lot of negativity to defend something she cares about, I respect that. Personally, I haven't bought Dragon Age II yet but I think I will. I hear so many conflicting reviews, I'll just have to decide for myself. I certainly enjoyed the demo, anyway.

[LordPaul256]

I'm waaaaaay late to this party, as like many people who were disappointed in DA2 I've mostly left the forums, but...

1)  RPGs don't have to take 4-5 years to make.  Baldur's Gate 2 took around 2 years to make.  KotOR took around 2 years to make.  Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines took around 2 years to make. 

The reason Dragon Age: Origins took so long is because they were building an engine.  Engines are not easy to make.  At all.  That's why the most popular engines (Unreal 3) are used by so many companies.  It saves time & money.

2)  RPG fans are not all 30+.  I'm a few years shy of 30, but I have many friends much younger who like RPGs.  It's a broad generalization, and it has absolutely no evidence to back it up.

3)  RPG fans like RPGs.  They like customization, creating characters, and epic stories.  Epic stories don't have to be "save the world," just look at Baldur's Gate 2 or Vampire - Bloodlines, but there does have to be a steady progression of story with side quests not being the main focus.  (Unless you're making a Bethesda game... but that is its own beast). 

SW:TOR is delivering exactly what RPG fans want.  Lots of customization, choices, and even story progression.  BioWare obviously still knows how to do these things, and they've been the innovates in this field in the past.



I think it's blatantly obvious what went wrong here.  Not enough development time, and a somewhat untested lead designer.  It's pretty simple.  With just another year, this game might still have been divisive, but a lot less people would have called it a majorly disappointing game.  

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

LordPaul256 wrote...

I'm waaaaaay late to this party, as like many people who were disappointed in DA2 I've mostly left the forums, but...

1)  RPGs don't have to take 4-5 years to make.  Baldur's Gate 2 took around 2 years to make.  KotOR took around 2 years to make.  Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines took around 2 years to make. 

The reason Dragon Age: Origins took so long is because they were building an engine.  Engines are not easy to make.  At all.  That's why the most popular engines (Unreal 3) are used by so many companies.  It saves time & money.

2)  RPG fans are not all 30+.  I'm a few years shy of 30, but I have many friends much younger who like RPGs.  It's a broad generalization, and it has absolutely no evidence to back it up.

3)  RPG fans like RPGs.  They like customization, creating characters, and epic stories.  Epic stories don't have to be "save the world," just look at Baldur's Gate 2 or Vampire - Bloodlines, but there does have to be a steady progression of story with side quests not being the main focus.  (Unless you're making a Bethesda game... but that is its own beast). 

SW:TOR is delivering exactly what RPG fans want.  Lots of customization, choices, and even story progression.  BioWare obviously still knows how to do these things, and they've been the innovates in this field in the past.



I think it's blatantly obvious what went wrong here.  Not enough development time, and a somewhat untested lead designer.  It's pretty simple.  With just another year, this game might still have been divisive, but a lot less people would have called it a majorly disappointing game.  

How can I subscribe to your newsletter, good sir?

We might all disagree on our differing views of the game, but there's no need for personal insults. Unless it's accompanied by a meme picture, of course.

So, Maccyds, leave Persephone alone. Her (I'm assuming) personal life is none of our business.

Personally, I think Dragon Age 2 has enough flaws to fill a rather large barnyard, but we do ourselves no favours by simply throwing mud at people who disagree with us.



Also, why do my posts format themselves stupidly sometimes?

I always have to ninja edit them...

Modifié par mrcrusty, 21 avril 2011 - 11:54 .

[Teredan]

I think you quoted the wrong person

[Persephone]

AudioEpics wrote...

I like Persephone. She's willing to brave a lot of negativity to defend something she cares about, I respect that. Personally, I haven't bought Dragon Age II yet but I think I will. I hear so many conflicting reviews, I'll just have to decide for myself. I certainly enjoyed the demo, anyway.

Thank you. I would have advised playing the demo first, but you got that covered. Don't forget to get the most recent patch. I hope you'll enjoy it as much as I did.

[AkiKishi]

AudioEpics wrote...

I like Persephone. She's willing to brave a lot of negativity to defend something she cares about, I respect that. Personally, I haven't bought Dragon Age II yet but I think I will. I hear so many conflicting reviews, I'll just have to decide for myself. I certainly enjoyed the demo, anyway.

If you enjoyed the demo you will probably get on ok with it. Combat is a big part of the game. Everything else can be skipped over to an extent but combat can't.

[wright1978]

I don't think i've read anything loaded with as much condescention as the original post. Pretty much implies one group as being mature/intelligent while a second group is immature/unintelligent. It just seems another attack on DA2 rather than a real attempt to dissect the changing nature of Bioware RPG's.

my own opinion and it is just that, is that there are multiple consumer groups for games. Individuals can be in multiple overlapping groups with diverse age and social-economics in each group. Origins/baldur's gate cater for a certain niche. Equally there are other groups(who equally want an RPG experience) who won't have found these games particularly fulfilling. Bioware saw a gap in the market. People who didn't didn't particularly care for Traditonal shooters(Call of Duty) and so created a different type of RPG. Mass Effect 2 was a huge success for them. ME3 is rumoured to be making changes to try and perfect the blend. I'm glad that finally after years of disappointment that there is a company that is offering an intelligently made and immensely playable RPG. As far as i'm concerned long may it continue.

[Shadowbanner]

Otterwarden wrote...

Shadowbanner wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Shadowbanner wrote...

Amazon UK has lowered the price of DA2 yet again. Selling now at only 12 pounds the PC version.

It's even selling cheaper than the ultimate edition of DA:O.

Ive been watching the Amazon PS3 price all day it started at £27 went upto £30 and now it's down to £19.98. I just happen to have the window open on games.

What a roller coaster.

uk.camelcamelcamel.com/Dragon-Age-2-PC-DVD/product/B003VM8HFE

I've definitely been getting dizzy on the PC ride...

Hey, thanks for that Otterwarden!

Very handy.

[Shadowbanner]

Phedre8 wrote...

OP I agree with pretty much everything you have to say. I'm a 21 year old female gamer who absolutely loves RPG games, and play almost exclusively on the xbox. I stumbled upon DA:O by accident then discovered the ME universe, and I'm happy to say Bioware has owned my soul ever since. There was something off about DA2 and you're right when you say that it's a cross between an RPG and a button-masher.

I've played through DA:O, ME and ME2 at least 6 times each(which is no doubt unhealthy, but I don't really care) and it was almost painful playing through DA2 for the second time. Hopefully Bioware will fix this for Dragon age 3.

Thanks. I'm sure they'll listen to us eventually and fix it for DA3.

They are a great company and deserve a second chance.

Here's hoping.

[Everwarden]

AudioEpics wrote...

I like Persephone. She's willing to brave a lot of negativity to defend something she cares about, I respect that. Personally, I haven't bought Dragon Age II yet but I think I will. I hear so many conflicting reviews, I'll just have to decide for myself. I certainly enjoyed the demo, anyway.

Wait a few weeks, you'll get DAII with any happy meal purchase as the bonus toy. 

[Shadowbanner]

Xena_Shepard wrote...

This was an amazingly excellent and detailed post, I applaud you, sir.

Though, I have two things to add. It's a little inaccurate to say all RPG lovers are old. I'm 19 and I've loved RPGs and BioWare ever since I played KOTOR when I was 14.

Also, one of the reasons it's not a good idea to screw your hardcore fans to cater to casuals is that casuals are, well, casual they don't stick with a company out of loyalty and flow with the gaming wind. We hardcore fans (and ex-fans in my case) would've bought a BioWare game simply because the logo was on the box, we knew that BioWare stood for quality and excellence. Now that's not the case, and they've screwed themselves six different ways by screwing their true fans to cater to people who won't stick with them and move onto the next fad.

Just my input...

Hi there

You are right, my bad (he bows his guilty head ashamed).

I've edited the post to add that RPG lovers can be 13 y.o. or 77 y.o., female or male, PC-gamer or console-player. (Now some 12 y.o. playing on a Nintendo DS will write a post saying I've excluded them...).

Its actually fairly hard to give a profile of us RPG lovers. If only I could get my hands on those lovely market reports EA hoards under 7 keys. I'd say "discerning gamers" cuts it. Agreed?

Please read my edit below the original post where I elaborate further. Thanks.

I'm sure BioWare, being the great company they are (kneepads), will hear us and amend as appropriate.

Modifié par Shadowbanner, 21 avril 2011 - 04:28 .

[zeejay21]

Gosh, that was a long post, OP.

A wall of text. I didn't bother to finish reading it.

Next time, make it short and sweet.

[Shadowbanner]

zeejay21 wrote...

Gosh, that was a long post, OP.

A wall of text. I didn't bother to finish reading it.

Next time, make it short and sweet.

So, I take it you loved DA2. Your kinda game, right? So much hackin' going on...yeah.

It would sure prove my point. EA, you reading this?

I hope my one line post above is short enough.

Q.E.D.

Modifié par Shadowbanner, 21 avril 2011 - 04:32 .

[Shadowbanner]

Modifié par Shadowbanner, 21 avril 2011 - 04:31 .

[Il Divo]

Shadowbanner wrote...

So, I take it you loved DA2. Your kinda game, right? So much hackin' going on...yeah.

It would sure prove my point. EA, you reading this?

I hope my one line post above is short enough.

Q.E.D.

Not to butt in, but wouldn't it be woefully ironic if you were to find out that he did in fact prefer DA:O over DA2? It would certainly pose a problem for the arguments at hand...

[AlanC9]

wright1978 wrote...

I don't think i've read anything loaded with as much condescention as the original post.

Keep reading this board and I guarantee you'll see worse.

[Shadowbanner]

Il Divo wrote...

Shadowbanner wrote...

So, I take it you loved DA2. Your kinda game, right? So much hackin' going on...yeah.

It would sure prove my point. EA, you reading this?

I hope my one line post above is short enough.

Q.E.D.

Not to butt in, but wouldn't it be woefully ironic if you were to find out that he did in fact prefer DA:O over DA2? It would certainly pose a problem for the arguments at hand...

Ummm...yes, that would be a severe blow.

I hadn't thought of that....uh-oh.

-irony on-

Zeejay, man, come on, be honest. You know you hated DA:O, right?

I mean, geez the main guy didn't even speak throughout the whole game, right? What weirdo would possibly buy an 80 hour long game with endless replayability (whatever that looong fancy word means; I hate long words) in which the main character doesn't even speak? Maybe Bioware was short of cash or somethin'. Go figure. Just so freakin' lame & lazy, right?

Plus all those awfully long dialogue trees, bla bla bla more bla bla joining ritual bla blabla and let's do this bla bla bla go find what's his name bla bla bla archdemon bla bla bla blight bla bla bla Landsmeet bla bla game over. I mean, I was just clicking to cut through the god damn dialogue and get to the action asap. You did too Zeejay, right? Yeah...

Pfft did you check DA:O graphics? God, even My PS1 had better graphics than that. DA2 is kool 'cause it has all those colours that swirl, and the mage's staffs go "pew, pew, pew" like Star War's kool lasers, that's just so kool dude. Y' agree, right?

I mean DA:O didn't even have kool cinematics as in DA2.

And the quests were -yawn- sooo bloody long. Thanks God in DA2 they only take 3 minutes or less to complete. I luv ma fed ex quests. Half of the time I cannot even tell what they are about. All I want is my cash to buy more kool stuff for me (cause I cannot equip my companions armor: that's way too much thinkin' for me).

And the music. God soooo bad in DA:O. DA2 has this kool beat sounds as in a disco: Chun-ka, Chun-ka, Chun-ka. I even play it on my tuned car off to work. the girls look at me, they all want a piece of me...yeah... kool stuff dude.

And what was all that about different races in DA:O? I mean seriously man, someone must be a complete whacko nerd to wanna play as a dwarf or elve; they don't even exist!! People are bonkers. I want my DA2 bad-ass human gansgta-ninja rogue who kicks ass! Yeah...

Did anyone understand what the hell Morrigan wanted? Way too complicated. Isabella is kooler, just sex, vulgar at that, yeah.... kool...

And I love the coercion dialogue removed, and rogue's stealing cause its bad and immoral. And I go to mass every Sunday.

And to close, Mike, dude, you're my hero, u rulz my hert!   (Enrique Iglesias' song in the background)

-irony off-

Modifié par Shadowbanner, 21 avril 2011 - 05:40 .

[zeejay21]

Shadowbanner wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

Shadowbanner wrote...

So, I take it you loved DA2. Your kinda game, right? So much hackin' going on...yeah.

It would sure prove my point. EA, you reading this?

I hope my one line post above is short enough.

Q.E.D.

Not to butt in, but wouldn't it be woefully ironic if you were to find out that he did in fact prefer DA:O over DA2? It would certainly pose a problem for the arguments at hand...

Ummm...yes, that would be a severe blow.

I hadn't thought of that....uh-oh.

-irony on-

Zeejay, man, come on, be honest. You know you hated DA:O, right?

(Wall of text starting from here on out.)

I have you know that I already ordered DA:O: Ultimate Edition. I played the 'full preview', I have several wet dreams about it, made it into a drug that I was addicted for months and wished it was a person that I can marry.

As for DA2, I love it because it was a sarcastic game.

[Psython]

One issue that I have with the OP and some of the posts in this thread is the generalization of different groups of individuals. I consider myself a fan of traditional rpgs. I am 25 years old, not the cantankerous old man some people seem to believe make up the entire hardcore rpg audience. I also play first person shooter and strategy games. I turn to different types of games when I'm in certain moods, although I consider traditional rpgs to be the highest evolution of game design in a certain way. Really, I fall into the good game loving group, the group that will play anything if it is high quality. If anything I think that the release of DAO showed that if you make an amazing game then people will buy it. After all, it was Bioware's best selling game despite being one of the most "hardcore" games released in the last decade.

I just don't get why Bioware insists on trying to cross over to other audiences. People that don't play rpgs will not cross over. ME2 was effective because it was a third person shooter wrapped in an rpg. I don't think the mass crossover will happen unless DA becomes a strait action game with peripheral rpg elements. As it is, DA2 is a rpg pretending to be an action game. Therefore, there is no particular audience for the game, because no one is entirely satisfied with the outcome.

I just don't understand how anyone can objectively claim from a game design perspective that DA2 is superior to its predesessor. I think more developers need to realize that good games sell well and people tend to playa a variety of games. Games like torchlight and magika are huge successes not because they were marketed but because they were high quality. DA2 will never sell that well because it was cheaply made, missmarketed, comitee-designed, uninspired and boring.

DA2 is like some established jazz (or any genre) musician deciding that the next LP needs to be a jazz/ euro-pop crossover to get more sales and ends up with some awkward blemish on good taste that no one buys or likes. I feel like Bioware has ruined their reputation as good artists with DA2. The game is playable but boring and meaningless!

[zeejay21]

Psython wrote...

(I love to quote it but it was still long and besides his post is directly above me :innocent:)

In short, you're meaning to say DA2 feels like a rush job and incomplete.

[Shadowbanner]

zeejay21 wrote...

Shadowbanner wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

Shadowbanner wrote...

So, I take it you loved DA2. Your kinda game, right? So much hackin' going on...yeah.

It would sure prove my point. EA, you reading this?

I hope my one line post above is short enough.

Q.E.D.

Not to butt in, but wouldn't it be woefully ironic if you were to find out that he did in fact prefer DA:O over DA2? It would certainly pose a problem for the arguments at hand...

Ummm...yes, that would be a severe blow.

I hadn't thought of that....uh-oh.

-irony on-

Zeejay, man, come on, be honest. You know you hated DA:O, right?

(Wall of text starting from here on out.)

I have you know that I already ordered DA:O: Ultimate Edition. I played the 'full preview', I have several wet dreams about it, made it into a drug that I was addicted for months and wished it was a person that I can marry.

As for DA2, I love it because it was a sarcastic game.

Ouch, that hurt!

Modifié par Shadowbanner, 21 avril 2011 - 06:32 .

[erynnar]

AudioEpics wrote...

I like Persephone. She's willing to brave a lot of negativity to defend something she cares about, I respect that. Personally, I haven't bought Dragon Age II yet but I think I will. I hear so many conflicting reviews, I'll just have to decide for myself. I certainly enjoyed the demo, anyway.

Same here *waves and blow kisses to Perse*  And I am always on here too...meh.

And if you liked the demo you should get it, I think you would like it then.

[AlanC9]

Psython wrote...

I am 25 years old, not the cantankerous old man some people seem to believe make up the entire hardcore rpg audience. I also play first person shooter and strategy games.

Of course, when we talk about cantankerous old RPG fans we actually mean someone who's about 35

 Games like torchlight and magika are huge successes not because they were marketed but because they were high quality.

Those were huge successes?