137 réponses à ce sujet

[Dragonslayr09]

I had hoped DA2 would maintain a party camp as in DAO. Or at least some kind of party HQ where everyone can interact with Hawke. As it is you need to select and confirm the characters to bring along, only then can you equip them or level up, etc. BW should consider this in DA3.

[Onkelsander]

I actually like them having their own places... Kinda neat having to go to them in order to check up on them.... Also like the fact that the party member interact with each other as well(eg Isabella checkin up on Fenris, or Anders visiting Varric)

[Dragonslayr09]

you can check up on them more conveniently in one central place, that way no need for loading each time. Besides its what every gang should have-a hideout.

Modifié par Dragonslayr09, 17 avril 2011 - 02:48 .

[Dubya75]

Good point OP, I agree that it would be good to be able to control all your companion inventory and equipped items at any given time regardless of whether or not they are in your party.
Don't think this necessitates a party camp however. Definitely would not have made sense in DA2.

[Dragoonlordz]

The problem with DA2 is that they removed alot of interaction and replaced with same style as DAO:Awakening, a set time triggered interactions only. In Dao you could strike up a actual conversation yourself with any party member while out and about or at base camp and have a dialogue with them delving deeper into their backgrounds and opinions of current events, that gave you choices in how wish to interact and progress the members story itself (as well as background chit chat going on between party members). In DA2 this was thrown out the window and replaced with only background noise. The only interactions occur a few times each through the whole game between each member from the player perspective. The fact they are not all in same place is a non issue for me the lack of interaction though was. Having party members interact at their own places between each other is ok, I'm happy with that but it should have been added to the original system and not a replacement of the player interaction. That aspect disgusts me as a design choice and I feel strongly about this.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 17 avril 2011 - 02:59 .

[MorrigansLove]

I don't miss the party camp, I miss the beautiful music that accompanied it.

[Dragonslayr09]

Dubya75 wrote...

Good point OP, I agree that it would be good to be able to control all your companion inventory and equipped items at any given time regardless of whether or not they are in your party.
Don't think this necessitates a party camp however. Definitely would not have made sense in DA2.

yeah, it doesn't have to be a party camp. It could be anywhere in Kirkwall.

[nubbers666]

me to
but i can understand why they did it this way

you meet new people and all of you already have a home or fav place to hang out at  lol

[Dragonslayr09]

Take Merill for instance, after moving in with Hawke, she's always in the estate now, right? but her icon doesn't show still. You need to exit and load up the map, go to another destination like Sundermount just to equip her. I don't need to go to a mountain to equip my sweetheart who lives with me. Where is the simplicity in that?

[Cutlass Jack]

I prefer everyone having their own home. Makes me feel less guilty that I leave them standing around Camp when I don't use them. Lets them go live their lives. And I love seeing that they are living their lives when I go to see them.

I would have liked the ability to shift their equipment about while at home though. Something you could already do with sandal and enchantments. They don't need to physically be there for that functionality.

Dragonslayr09 wrote...

Take Merill for instance, after moving in with Hawke, she's always in the estate now, right? but her icon doesn't show still. You need to exit and load up the map, go to another destination like Sundermount just to equip her. I don't need to go to a mountain to equip my sweetheart who lives with me. Where is the simplicity in that?

You make it too complicated. Just go to a spot like the Hanged Man or Fenris' house. You can swap party at will and change all their gear without traveling.

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 17 avril 2011 - 03:19 .

[ISnowdropI]

Yeah, I do miss the party camp and the beautiful music as Morriganslove said. I think that one of the big things that made DA:O so successful was the massive amount of thought put into the conversations between Hawke and companions, to make it seem so realistic. There was a nice diversity of light-hearted and deep convos that we miss in DA2 for sure, as the interaction is so restricted; it didn't feel like the relationships developed naturally like in origins. I did like the idea of individual bases as they gave more character but it was at a heavy penalty to the feeling of being involved - I for one, didn't feel as 'close' to the companions as I did in DA:O.

Modifié par ISnowdropI, 17 avril 2011 - 03:24 .

[Dragonslayr09]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

I prefer everyone having their own home. Makes me feel less guilty that I leave them standing around Camp when I don't use them. Lets them go live their lives. And I love seeing that they are living their lives when I go to see them.

I would have liked the ability to shift their equipment about while at home though. Something you could already do with sandal and enchantments. They don't need to physically be there for that functionality.

Dragonslayr09 wrote...

Take Merill for instance, after moving in with Hawke, she's always in the estate now, right? but her icon doesn't show still. You need to exit and load up the map, go to another destination like Sundermount just to equip her. I don't need to go to a mountain to equip my sweetheart who lives with me. Where is the simplicity in that?

You make it too complicated. Just go to a spot like the Hanged Man or Fenris' house. You can swap party at will and change all their gear without traveling.

I wouldn't mind the Hanged Man's Pub or the Mountain top for that matter as long as they're all there. It doesn't have to be 3 at a time. How complicated is that?

[Seena]

I'm playing DAO through again now - and I have to say, my eyes have been opened to many of the complaints about the game. I much prefer the camp set up also. Whether the discrepancy between DAO and DA2 is real, or perceived (in terms of dialogue and interactions) remains uncertain. But there is definitely a difference, so much so I can see where it ruined the game for some.

Modifié par Seena, 17 avril 2011 - 03:39 .

[Cutlass Jack]

ISnowdropI wrote...

 it didn't feel like the relationships developed naturally like in origins. I did like the idea of individual bases as they gave more character but it was at a heavy penalty to the feeling of being involved - I for one, didn't feel as 'close' to the companions as I did in DA:O.

Strange. I didnt' feel the relationships developed naturally at all in DAO. I could get Zevran to 50% in a single conversation and be sleeping with him. (Okay maybe not too odd for Zevran, but quick from the Warden's perspective since he just tried to kill you). Or bribing them with half eaten cake so they'll forget they dont' like you and all you stand for.

I felt much closer to the DA2 ones by comparison. I got involved with their lives, they get involved with my life, and the lives of other companions. I got to join in the walkaround banter. It was great. Though the time gap between acts caused some strange moments. ("I realized I never apologized for that thing I said three years ago.")

But I really felt I hung out with these people because I liked them, not just because we had a world to save.

(just my opinion of course, and not suggesting anyone who feels otherwise is somehow wrong.)

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 17 avril 2011 - 03:49 .

[Seena]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

ISnowdropI wrote...

 it didn't feel like the relationships developed naturally like in origins. I did like the idea of individual bases as they gave more character but it was at a heavy penalty to the feeling of being involved - I for one, didn't feel as 'close' to the companions as I did in DA:O.

Strange. I didnt' feel the relationships developed naturally at all in DAO. I could get Zevran to 50% in a single conversation and be sleeping with him. (Okay maybe not too odd for Zevran, but quick from the Warden's perspective since he just tried to kill you). Or bribing them with half eaten cake so they'll forget they dont' like you and all you stand for.

I felt much closer to the DA2 ones by comparison. I got involved with their lives, they get involved with my life, and the lives of other companions. I got to join in the walkaround banter. It was great. Though the time gap between acts caused some strange moments. ("I realized I never apologized for that thing I said three years ago.")

But I really felt I hung out with these people because I liked them, not just because we had a world to save.

It's so subjective - I felt that way in DAO - not in DA2.  Not that I hated any of the DA2 chars- but I didn't adore them the way I did EVERY char in DAO (except the Golem - never warmed up to him).  I did come to really love Varrick and care about Merrill and Isabela - but Sebastian and Fenris I could have never seen again and not cared a whit. Their stories bored me, and partying with them irritated me. Anders also was a serious let down.

I think again, this is an integral part of the love/hate thing for DA2.  Whether or not you warm to the characters as you did in DAO.

[Dragonslayr09]

ISnowdropI wrote...

Yeah, I do miss the party camp and the beautiful music as Morriganslove said. I think that one of the big things that made DA:O so successful was the massive amount of thought put into the conversations between Hawke and companions, to make it seem so realistic. There was a nice diversity of light-hearted and deep convos that we miss in DA2 for sure, as the interaction is so restricted; it didn't feel like the relationships developed naturally like in origins. I did like the idea of individual bases as they gave more character but it was at a heavy penalty to the feeling of being involved - I for one, didn't feel as 'close' to the companions as I did in DA:O.

I definitely agree with you. The party camp set up was more than a place to equip the guys. It was an escape from a hard day on the road, fighting, exploring caves and dungeons. At camp it was all light moments, top that off with the background music you mentioned. Don't forget Bodahn and Sandal "enchantment" boy were there with their wares if you needed extra stuff. Very convenient imo.

[k177sh0t]

I'd support both camp and they're own place just as long the interactions/conversations are worth it, w/c wasnt much on DA2

[Kardelo]

I like the idea of the companions having their own estate/place and I think that it's more suitable for personal conversations and romantic occasions than the party camp (i'm not saying that these things are inappropriate for the party camp). The problem is that you can't have conversations with them whenever you want to, you can only initiate a conversation for companion quests.

I believe that the idea of companions having their own estate/place is good particularly for a city like Kirkwall as opposed to the camp being good for DA:O because you were traveling around Ferelden. The execution of the idea was just not done right and resulted to me having little to no connection to any of my companions.

The camp allowed you to manage all your party members, buy bodahn's wares, enchant your equipment, and talk to your party members whenever you want to. The night setting, the campfire, the music, hell even the barking dog, provided a great atmosphere.


And for these reasons, camp > companion estates/places. (My opinion of course)

Modifié par Kardelo, 17 avril 2011 - 04:35 .

[errant_knight]

I really didn't like all the extra running around that involved, although I understand the logic in the concept behind it. I might not have minded so much if we could converse with them the same way we could in Origins, but that just added an extra hurdle to conversation that already felt stilted, unnatural, and lacking in immediacy. It also added to the sense of emotional distance between the PC and the companions, maybe not a bad thing for such an overall depressing story, but it undermined the sense of companionship that existed in Origins, and I wouldn't like to see it repeated.

Modifié par errant_knight, 17 avril 2011 - 04:22 .

[savagesparrow]

The problem I had with the party camp in DA: O was the same as what Cutlass Jack mentioned--you could easily burn through all of Alistair's conversations before the game is even over--In my second playthrough, I think I got him to 100% right after we did the mage tower, and from there on all that was left was the Goldana thing and his story was done. Same with the other companions--because there were so many gifts lying around, you could easily run through their stories well before the game was over. Morrigan disapproves of you saving orphans and rescuing kittens? This necklace begs to differ!

I like the =idea= behind the party camp--having everyone there while you're on the move makes a lot of sense since you're all traveling together. But I think in DA 2 because of the Acts structure, the companion conversations were much more evenly spaced out so that it really felt like you were getting to know them over the course of in-game years. And I loved that they had lives outside of hanging with Hawke, like the weekly Diamondback game, Fenris and his avoidance of tax collectors, Varric making sure Merrill isn't bothered by the Coterie when she goes outside, etc.

But yes, it'd be nice if there was like, a Mass Effect style locker room or something where you could equip all your guys at once--like, maybe their equipment gets mailed to their base? Mailing things is medieval, right? x.x

[Abispa]

The camp scene? I miss it only for the ease of inventory management. I realize that it was a necessary feature for DA:O (the first game in a series) since it allowed you learn about he entire history of Thedas civilization while standing mute around a campfire, but it really did bother me (as others have mentioned) that you could basically talk away 50 to 75% of a character's interactions in one sitting.

Also, with Bodan's shop right there, you could buy a bunch of presents (some for free) and get someone to fall madly in love with you even if you've been playing a character they disapprove of. I basically had to force myself on later playthroughs NOT to use all available camp options when they became available. I just found it odd that I could "cheat" without even trying and that I had to use trial and error to NOT do things that would unbalance and ruin the game for me.

[GODzilla]

I miss it, too. And the markers on the maps where you could enter the world map and thus the camp whenever you wanted.

*little spoiler ahead*

When I visited the Sundermount in Act 2 this is what happened:

- entered the map
- walked all the way to the elven camp
- walked all the way up to the sundermount caves
- fought all the enemies there
- went through the sundermount caves
- fought all the enemies there
- exit the sundermount caves
- entered the elven graveyard
- fought all the enemies there
- walked all the way up to the sundermount top
- tried to fight the mature dragon
- realised my party composition was not up to the task (no tank, hard difficilty)
- cancelled the fight

- walked all the way back to the elven graveyard
- entered the sundermount caves
- walked all the way back through the sundermount caves
- exit the caves
- walked all the way back to the elven camp
- walked all the way back to the map exit
- entered the hanged man
- changed my party composition (Aveline, tank)

- entered the sundermount map again
- walked all the way to the elven camp again
- walked all the way up to the sundermount caves again
- went through the sundermount caves again
- exit the sundermount caves again
- entered the elven graveyard again
- walked all the way up to the sundermount top again
- tried to fight the mature dragon again
- defeated it

It was a random fight btw, no story attached, no quest and no big reward either. All the running around for nothing.

Thanks Bioware, great design there.

[Girl on a Rock]

For relationship development, I like them having their own places and that you're only able to progress so far in a short span of time.

However, for logistical purposes, I completely agree with the OP. It just makes equipping weaponry and distributing accessories so much easier. Recently I realized that by the middle of Act III I hadn't upgraded Isabela's daggers since the beginning of Act II (meaning they were super weaksauce) because I'd been avoiding using her because of her game glitch.

Do not want! I liked having everyone around, too. I mean, maybe everyone can still have their home bases, but at the same time gather someplace, like one poster said, at the Hanged Man or something.

[Rockpopple]

A simple fix would be to allow the gamer to switch party members anywhere they want, or perhaps when they left a major area, like Sundermount.

I liked the fact that the companions had their own homes too, but really, we should have more areas where we can switch characters. I don't know what the mechanics of it are, but if we can save practically anywhere outside of battle, why can't we switch characters with the press of a button? Hm...

[erynnar]

savagesparrow wrote...

The problem I had with the party
camp in DA: O was the same as what Cutlass Jack mentioned--you could
easily burn through all of Alistair's conversations before the game is
even over--In my second playthrough, I think I got him to 100% right
after we did the mage tower, and from there on all that was left was the
Goldana thing and his story was done. Same with the other
companions--because there were so many gifts lying around, you could
easily run through their stories well before the game was over. Morrigan
disapproves of you saving orphans and rescuing kittens? This necklace
begs to differ!

I like the =idea= behind the party camp--having
everyone there while you're on the move makes a lot of sense since
you're all traveling together. But I think in DA 2 because of the Acts
structure, the companion conversations were much more evenly spaced out
so that it really felt like you were getting to know them over the
course of in-game years. And I loved that they had lives outside of
hanging with Hawke, like the weekly Diamondback game, Fenris and his
avoidance of tax collectors, Varric making sure Merrill isn't bothered
by the Coterie when she goes outside, etc.

But yes, it'd be nice
if there was like, a Mass Effect style locker room or something where
you could equip all your guys at once--like, maybe their equipment gets
mailed to their base? Mailing things is medieval, right? x.x

Abispa wrote...

The camp scene? I miss it only for the ease of inventory management. I realize that it was a necessary feature for DA:O (the first game in a series) since it allowed you learn about he entire history of Thedas civilization while standing mute around a campfire, but it really did bother me (as others have mentioned) that you could basically talk away 50 to 75% of a character's interactions in one sitting.

Also, with Bodan's shop right there, you could buy a bunch of presents (some for free) and get someone to fall madly in love with you even if you've been playing a character they disapprove of. I basically had to force myself on later playthroughs NOT to use all available camp options when they became available. I just found it odd that I could "cheat" without even trying and that I had to use trial and error to NOT do things that would unbalance and ruin the game for me.

Okay, I understand where both of you are coming from on the convos, gifts and burning through them too fast. But the simple solution is don't do it. You had control over whether you bought them off with gifts, or burned through every convo possibility or made them love you right away.  In DA2 that power was taken away from me and got done for me.  I am not an infant. If I burned through convos or bribed them into liking me, well that was my perogative, wasn't it? Just because you could,doesn't mean you should. But having the power to decide that is better imho than holding my friggin' hand. I was in control over whether my convos, or relationships went too fast or not. I don't need the devs at BioWare to decide that for me, thanks.

And I did love camp as a way to let off the steam from the angsty angst. But it wouldn't work in Kirkwall so much. So, I can see them having their own places. A comprimise might be to have them with their own places (and you can visit them anytime, talk to them any time), and a couple of cut away meetings say at the Hanged Man where they have all gotten together to meet with each other and where Hawke can meet them.

Modifié par erynnar, 17 avril 2011 - 07:36 .