137 réponses à ce sujet

[Shazzie]

:: ARGH double post ::

Modifié par Shazzie, 18 avril 2011 - 05:28 .

[Dragonslayr09]

elearon1 wrote...

Yeah, hell, if visiting someone's house is too difficult we can go a step forward ... just have people appear in your party when they want to talk. Then why stop at companion armor and some weapons? Let's make the companions completely unequipable! And how about the game just automatically update our own inventory so we're always wearing the best stuff and don't have to bother picking or sorting? And, hell, let's finally go the "Savior of Queens" route and have the game play itself! That would be awesome!

I believe this is one of those "get this over with posts," with unrealistic solutions whose only purpose is to get it posted.

[elearon1]

Shazzie wrote...
I was really irritated by the game telling me to 'Go visit your companions, and have special conversations you can have nowhere else!'. I got excited the first time I saw this! So I visited my companions a LOT, and.... surprise, surprise. I never had a single one of these 'special conversations'. I had QUESTS to go talk to them, sure. But why did the game tell me this extra special tip (and spam it, repeatedly, during load screens) if it really doesn't matter, because it's not a special conversation, it's a *quest*, and of COURSE you're doing to do it. I could do surprise visits all I wanted, but unless it was Quest Time, there was no conversation to be had.

While I agree that the "Go visit your companions often ..." advice was odd and misleading, I think you're putting too much emphasis on the word "quest" here.  You could choose not to talk to your companions and most of the time miss nothing by doing so, (though I can't imagine why you'd want to) as often this was simply a discussion about philosophy or personal issues.  In fact, in my first playthrough I almost never talked to Fenris, because my character didn't like him; (and, yes, I missed out on some Fenris specific material because of that, but I didn't mind ... made my second playthrough that much more enjoyable) and in my third playthrough I've ignored Sebastian ... so it is entirely possible not to respond to these prompts if you really want to. (my "third" and "fourth" playthroughs are happening simultenously ... in one I'm ignoring Sebastian completely, in the other I'm only vaguely paying attention to him ... he's an okay character, but his very Chantry-centric point of view makes him a "love or hate" kind of guy ... which I appreciate)

[elearon1]

Dragonslayr09 wrote..
I believe this is one of those "get this over with posts," with unrealistic solutions whose only purpose is to get it posted.

No, actually it was sarcasm, because I found your assertions and reasoning silly.  It WAS hyperbole, however ... the best hyperbole in the world!

[Dragonslayr09]

elearon1 wrote...

Dragonslayr09 wrote..
I believe this is one of those "get this over with posts," with unrealistic solutions whose only purpose is to get it posted.

No, actually it was sarcasm, because I found your assertions and reasoning silly.  It WAS hyperbole, however ... the best hyperbole in the world!

Weak.

[elearon1]

Dragonslayr09 wrote...
Weak.

Come on!  "Best hyperbole in the world!", that was a great joke!  Unless, of course, you don't appreciate puns.

[Dragonslayr09]

elearon1 wrote...

Dragonslayr09 wrote...
Weak.

Come on!  "Best hyperbole in the world!", that was a great joke!  Unless, of course, you don't appreciate puns.

Weaker. Trolling. Stay with the topic, sir.

Modifié par Dragonslayr09, 18 avril 2011 - 05:43 .

[elearon1]

Dragonslayr09 wrote...
Weaker. Trolling. Stay with the topic, sir.

Okay, now you're just being a jerk.  

Accept the fact that people liked the way the game was set up ... at least many of us did.  Would the Hanged Man have been an acceptable alternative to the way it was?  If I hadn't experienced the game as is, I'd say yes ... but having played the game as it is designed, I'd consider it a serious downgrade to see it changed.

[ashwind]

Dragonslayr09 wrote...

ashwind wrote...

Dragonslayr09 wrote...

you can check up on them more conveniently in one central place, that way no need for loading each time. Besides its what every gang should have-a hideout.

:O:O
Streamlining!!!!! How can things get more convenient in RPG - that is the path to streamlining and the fans will not stand for it.

But seriously, party camp only make sense if the story is about your party travelling together like in DAO, it makes no sense at all in DA2 setting. Camping for 7 years.... (plus, they are not a gang)

DA (future) - depends on story and setting.

Obviously you miss the whole point. The term "party camp" does not literally refer to a camp ergo warrant your comment re "camping." If you want more info about the gist of this thread, pls. refer to earlier exchanges among the various posters. BTW they are a gang. Please refer to this definition to confirm that they are indeed a Gang:

http://dictionary.re...com/browse/gang (go to no.4) 

Right~~~ explain to me how are they a gang? The only thing common they have is Hawke, some of them dont even like one another lest share any "common" goal or interest.

My point is: Do not forcefully make a place for my entire party to gather (for easy management) for the sake of it unless it fits into the bigger picture.

[elearon1]

ashwind wrote...My point is: Do not forcefully make a place for my entire party to gather (for easy management) for the sake of it unless it fits into the bigger picture.

Agreed, I made sense in DA:O, it does not in DA:Hawke.  I think a lot of the companion dynamic would have been lost if they'd been stuck in the same camp together.  Avaline and Isabela were only reluctant friends; Sebastian would not have hung out in the same place with Isabela, Varric or probably Fenris for very long; (though he seemed to decide Fenris was his personal project) Fenris and Anders would have killed each other.  

The game simply would have lost a lot of flavor with everyone hanging out around a camp fire, or the equivalent, in the city.

[Dragonslayr09]

ashwind wrote...

Dragonslayr09 wrote...

ashwind wrote...

Dragonslayr09 wrote...

you can check up on them more conveniently in one central place, that way no need for loading each time. Besides its what every gang should have-a hideout.

:O:O
Streamlining!!!!! How can things get more convenient in RPG - that is the path to streamlining and the fans will not stand for it.

But seriously, party camp only make sense if the story is about your party travelling together like in DAO, it makes no sense at all in DA2 setting. Camping for 7 years.... (plus, they are not a gang)

DA (future) - depends on story and setting.

Obviously you miss the whole point. The term "party camp" does not literally refer to a camp ergo warrant your comment re "camping." If you want more info about the gist of this thread, pls. refer to earlier exchanges among the various posters. BTW they are a gang. Please refer to this definition to confirm that they are indeed a Gang:

http://dictionary.re...com/browse/gang (go to no.4) 

Right~~~ explain to me how are they a gang? The only thing common they have is Hawke, some of them dont even like one another lest share any "common" goal or interest.

My point is: Do not forcefully make a place for my entire party to gather (for easy management) for the sake of it unless it fits into the bigger picture.

The definition is there as clear as daylight unless you have your own definition. Forcefully? If it comes in the form of a DLC, wouldn't you just ignore it and allow those who prefer it to get it? Is that an unfair compromise or would you just have it your way?

[elearon1]

Dragonslayr09 wrote... Forcefully? If it comes in the form of a DLC, wouldn't you just ignore it and allow those who prefer it to get it? Is that an unfair compromise or would you just have it your way?

The problem there is, if you made the DLC that important, you'd really be strongarmying people into getting it.  If you were going to make one location "party central" (though I still hate the idea) it should be a location that comes free with the game.

[KLUME777]

Yes, i really missed that. All it does for companions to be in there own place is make it far more tedious, and makes it very annoying when you want to customize there inventory or have conversation with them.

Now you get a quest to talk to your companion.

[Dragonslayr09]

elearon1 wrote...

Dragonslayr09 wrote... Forcefully? If it comes in the form of a DLC, wouldn't you just ignore it and allow those who prefer it to get it? Is that an unfair compromise or would you just have it your way?

The problem there is, if you made the DLC that important, you'd really be strongarmying people into getting it.  If you were going to make one location "party central" (though I still hate the idea) it should be a location that comes free with the game.

Therefore, you, sir have just contradicted yourself. Once you refused to be "forcefully" into the idea, now you "forcefully" refuse others a chance at that opportunity. Mussolini had that double standard, look where it got him.

[elearon1]

Dragonslayr09 wrote...
Therefore, you, sir have just contradicted yourself. Once you refused to be "forcefully" into the idea, now you "forcefully" refuse others a chance at that opportunity. Mussolini had that double standard, look where it got him.

Seriously, as an ex-history major, I wish you'd not use references like that ... it is misleading and silly ... just a pet peave of mine. (same with people who misuse psychology terms, as I was also a psych major)

And I didn't contradict myself ... I don't like the idea, but if it HAD TO be implimented, it should only be implimented as something everyone has access to - not just those who paid for the DE.

 Maybe an alternative would be to have a button on your journal screen that said "meet up for drinks at the HM" which allowed you to gather all the NPCs in one place and do your thing?  Not sure how much extra work that would be for the programmers, however, so can't say if it would be viable.

[Dragonslayr09]

elearon1 wrote...

Dragonslayr09 wrote...
Therefore, you, sir have just contradicted yourself. Once you refused to be "forcefully" into the idea, now you "forcefully" refuse others a chance at that opportunity. Mussolini had that double standard, look where it got him.

Seriously, as an ex-history major, I wish you'd not use references like that ... it is misleading and silly ... just a pet peave of mine. (same with people who misuse psychology terms, as I was also a psych major)

And I didn't contradict myself ... I don't like the idea, but if it HAD TO be implimented, it should only be implimented as something everyone has access to - not just those who paid for the DE.

 Maybe an alternative would be to have a button on your journal screen that said "meet up for drinks at the HM" which allowed you to gather all the NPCs in one place and do your thing?  Not sure how much extra work that would be for the programmers, however, so can't say if it would be viable.

A button like that would do it, like i said, having to guess what Aveline or sebastian's amulet was so i could tell if my inventory contained a better one but having to load them up just to check was a drag. So anything to make life easier would be welcome.

[elearon1]

Dragonslayr09 wrote...
A button like that would do it, like i said, having to guess what Aveline or sebastian's amulet was so i could tell if my inventory contained a better one but having to load them up just to check was a drag. So anything to make life easier would be welcome.

Oh no, in theory I AGREE with that point; having to try and remember if something is worth saving could be a pain.  But I wouldn't want the conversations and character developing cut scenes to be available at a common camp.  If you could look at and alter Inventory - and do ONLY - that elsewhere, I'd have absolutely no problem with the idea ... might even support it.

[Dragonslayr09]

elearon1 wrote...

Dragonslayr09 wrote...
A button like that would do it, like i said, having to guess what Aveline or sebastian's amulet was so i could tell if my inventory contained a better one but having to load them up just to check was a drag. So anything to make life easier would be welcome.

Oh no, in theory I AGREE with that point; having to try and remember if something is worth saving could be a pain.  But I wouldn't want the conversations and character developing cut scenes to be available at a common camp.  If you could look at and alter Inventory - and do ONLY - that elsewhere, I'd have absolutely no problem with the idea ... might even support it.

I mentioned in an earlier post that the character develpment, conversations were fine as it is. Its just the logistical convenience that i was batting for. The reason being-the way i play the game. You see, my habit is after i loot during quests, first i junk all that i don't need then keep the ones i believe would help my guys. Now i have to know if what i got is an upgrade, so i have to load 3 characters at a time. So i thought if we had some mechanism to have all the grunts lined up for inspection (wherever that would be) it would be great. Well, its just a wish.

[Virginian]

Camp I only used it for shagging, talking, fighting that one time, and most importantly opening up the equipment screen and changing everyone's equipment regardless if they were in my party at the moment.

I shouldn't have to go to the Hanged Man or wherever & play Musical Companions just to change everyone's frakkin equipment.

[wildannie]

elearon1 wrote...

Shazzie wrote...
I was really irritated by the game telling me to 'Go visit your companions, and have special conversations you can have nowhere else!'. I got excited the first time I saw this! So I visited my companions a LOT, and.... surprise, surprise. I never had a single one of these 'special conversations'. I had QUESTS to go talk to them, sure. But why did the game tell me this extra special tip (and spam it, repeatedly, during load screens) if it really doesn't matter, because it's not a special conversation, it's a *quest*, and of COURSE you're doing to do it. I could do surprise visits all I wanted, but unless it was Quest Time, there was no conversation to be had.

While I agree that the "Go visit your companions often ..." advice was odd and misleading, I think you're putting too much emphasis on the word "quest" here.  You could choose not to talk to your companions and most of the time miss nothing by doing so, (though I can't imagine why you'd want to) as often this was simply a discussion about philosophy or personal issues.  In fact, in my first playthrough I almost never talked to Fenris, because my character didn't like him; (and, yes, I missed out on some Fenris specific material because of that, but I didn't mind ... made my second playthrough that much more enjoyable) and in my third playthrough I've ignored Sebastian ... so it is entirely possible not to respond to these prompts if you really want to. (my "third" and "fourth" playthroughs are happening simultenously ... in one I'm ignoring Sebastian completely, in the other I'm only vaguely paying attention to him ... he's an okay character, but his very Chantry-centric point of view makes him a "love or hate" kind of guy ... which I appreciate)

There are lot's of quests that can be ignored, it doesn't change the fact that conversations are quests and that outside of these quests there are no conversations.  In DAO there were both player initiated conversations and game initiated conversations (based on approval and other quests).  

I really cannot understand why anyone considers these changes in DA2 an improvement on this.  I do concede that the game dialogue cutscenes were right to have been paced as they were in DA2, but what about the rest of the conversations? For me some player initiated conversations would have added that extra layer of depth to the characters and world that is lacking in DA2.

[Fishy]

GODzilla_GSPB wrote...

I miss it, too. And the markers on the maps where you could enter the world map and thus the camp whenever you wanted.

*little spoiler ahead*

When I visited the Sundermount in Act 2 this is what happened:

- entered the map
- walked all the way to the elven camp
- walked all the way up to the sundermount caves
- fought all the enemies there
- went through the sundermount caves
- fought all the enemies there
- exit the sundermount caves
- entered the elven graveyard
- fought all the enemies there
- walked all the way up to the sundermount top
- tried to fight the mature dragon
- realised my party composition was not up to the task (no tank, hard difficilty)
- cancelled the fight

- walked all the way back to the elven graveyard
- entered the sundermount caves
- walked all the way back through the sundermount caves
- exit the caves
- walked all the way back to the elven camp
- walked all the way back to the map exit
- entered the hanged man
- changed my party composition (Aveline, tank)

- entered the sundermount map again
- walked all the way to the elven camp again
- walked all the way up to the sundermount caves again
- went through the sundermount caves again
- exit the sundermount caves again
- entered the elven graveyard again
- walked all the way up to the sundermount top again
- tried to fight the mature dragon again
- defeated it

It was a random fight btw, no story attached, no quest and no big reward either. All the running around for nothing.

Thanks Bioware, great design there.

So you went back to pick a different companions while you could have defeated the dragon with your current group at a lesser difficulties..

What are you complaining about?If i had any influence on  the developement of DA2.I would not even let's you save everywhere ...So that dragon would have kicked yer ass and 1 hours of playtime for you gone.So you could go back to play call of duty on auto-pilots.

Indeed not going to happens .DA3 will probably have tutorial about how to click your keyboard.

Modifié par Suprez30, 18 avril 2011 - 07:59 .

[GODzilla]

Suprez30 wrote...

So you went back to pick a different companions while you could have defeated the dragon with your current group at a lesser difficulties..

What are you complaining about?If i had any influence on  the developement of DA2.I would not even let's you save everywhere ...So that dragon would have kicked yer ass and 1 hours of playtime for you gone.So you could go back to play call of duty on auto-pilots.

Indeed not going to happens .DA3 will probably have tutorial about how to click your keyboard.

Well on the one hand I wanted to defeat it on hard. Problem was I had no possibility telling that there is a dragon up there. It surprised me.

And about your idea: Brilliant. Actually I already had  similar ideas. If I had any influence on the development I would've put an end to this stupid 3d svga graphics. Back to the roots, meaning EGA or even plain text again. A game should rise from the thoughts of the player, not be presented in high definition *blink blink* graphics leaving no room for imagination!

Oh and btw. rule #1: "Everything was better in the past! No exception! Ever!"

:innocent:

Modifié par GODzilla_GSPB, 18 avril 2011 - 08:59 .

[elearon1]

GODzilla_GSPB wrote...
. Problem was I had no possibility telling that there is a dragon up there. It surprised me.

Isn't that kind of ... I don't know ... the point?  The game shouldn't tell you what you're going to be fighting in each adventure ahead of time ... it SHOULD be trying to surprise you.  If the game never managed to surprise me, I'd have gotten bored pretty quickly.

[SkittlesKat96]

I don't mind not having a party camp, it would be cool though if in Dragon Age 3 there was something like Vigil's Keep or the Crossroads Keep thing from NWN 2. That was pretty cool.