129 réponses à ce sujet

[Augustei]

What about that one mage that was a friend of your fathers and gets those documents for you about the templar that helped him escape named something Carver?

[DaeJi]

BioWare dropped the ball with mages. There is actually a reason as to why there is such corruption among them in Kirkwall (who the hell puts a Circle of Magi over little more than a direct portal to the Fade?!) that should have been factored more into the story, but as it is most mages encountered are just nuts to those who didn't hunt down every single codex entry. Thankfully Dragon Age: Origins gave a more balanced look at mages so we know that Kirkwall is just an extreme.

[Augustei]

Emergent System wrote...
Every mage in this story is a psychopathic idiot

hawke
bethany
The Saarebas you tried to help free
the thousands of mages we didn't see in the gallows circle tower
Tobrius
The Tranquil that you do quests for
Keeper Merethari (She may be an idiot, but she isn't psychopathic =P)
That dreamer half-elf mage w/e his name was

[Augustei]

DaeJi wrote...

BioWare dropped the ball with mages. There is actually a reason as to why there is such corruption among them in Kirkwall (who the hell puts a Circle of Magi over little more than a direct portal to the Fade?!) that should have been factored more into the story, but as it is most mages encountered are just nuts to those who didn't hunt down every single codex entry. Thankfully Dragon Age: Origins gave a more balanced look at mages so we know that Kirkwall is just an extreme.

Lucky Templars can see where the veil is weak.. oh wait =P

[DaeJi]

XxDeonxX wrote...
Lucky Templars can see where the veil is weak.. oh wait =P

A weak Veil is a danger to even non-magic persons. Probably doubly so for lyrium addicts.

[BlueMew]

Yes, forget 'mages', just about every person of power in Kirkwall is bat**** crazy....

[Dave of Canada]

DaeJi wrote...

Thankfully Dragon Age: Origins gave a more balanced look at mages so we know that Kirkwall is just an extreme.

What? The game that made them look innocent and oppressed for no reason, with the most dangerous and evil mage probably being Jowan?

[AtreiyaN7]

Alain isn't evil, and I've heard that Gascard actually reforms and gives up the whole blood mage thing. *shrug*

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Dave of Canada wrote...

DaeJi wrote...

Thankfully Dragon Age: Origins gave a more balanced look at mages so we know that Kirkwall is just an extreme.

What? The game that made them look innocent and oppressed for no reason, with the most dangerous and evil mage probably being Jowan?

There were lots of evil Blood Mages in Origins. Most of them were undeveloped quest fodder but they were still there. Plus there was Uldred.

[Dave of Canada]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Most of them were undeveloped quest fodder but they were still there.

But you never saw what Blood Mages could do, it was just... there, you were told it was bad but they never showed you why. DA2 decided to show how easily blood magic comes along and what it does.

Plus there was Uldred.

Yes, though he was an abomination which showed more the threat of abominations rather than mages (though they are linked).

[Sabariel]

DA2 showed you what blood magic can do in the wrong hands, not what every single blood mage is like.

[AlexXIV]

Sabariel wrote...

DA2 showed you what blood magic can do in the wrong hands, not what every single blood mage is like.

DA2 also showed us what authority in the wrong hands can do.

[Sabariel]

AlexXIV wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

DA2 showed you what blood magic can do in the wrong hands, not what every single blood mage is like.

DA2 also showed us what authority in the wrong hands can do.

Indeed. My Hawke was a terrible authority figure

[The Angry One]

XxDeonxX wrote...

hawke

Plot armour.

bethany

Sole true exception.

The Saarebas you tried to help free

An automaton so well programmed that he self-terminates when his directives compel him to.

the thousands of mages we didn't see in the gallows circle tower

Who may be all guilty for all the game shows us.

Tobrius

He never demonstrates anything.

The Tranquil that you do quests for

Which one's that? Also, bringing Tranquils into this is irrelevant.

Keeper Merethari (She may be an idiot, but she isn't psychopathic =P)

She kept her clan in danger for 6 years to prove a point, she spread fear of Merril to the point that clan members would rather run into a giant spider than talk to Merril for 5 seconds.
Actually given their behaviour after Marethari dies, the entire clan are a bunch of psychopaths.

That dreamer half-elf mage w/e his name was

You mean the one who apprentices to evil in the evil empire to learn the ways of evil?

[GodWood]

I didn't read the OP but I'm going to guarantee he used the term 'psychopathic' incorrectly.

[Sabariel]

Everyone forgets about poor Alain...

[Rifneno]

stobie wrote...

That might be (it's not, but let's say it is) - I've been trying to force myself to Go Templar, just for the sake of seeing both sides. If you do anything but kill Kerras, for instance, you're sending people to a sexual predator. (blunt, but sadly, accurate) Now, that's an exception (he, & Alrik) - except for one detail. There's a Tranquil mage wandering around The Gallows, quite openly explaining that she now 'belongs to Alrik,' despite having been in love with someone else before. The problem comes not from a few random monster-templars, but from the obvious, 'Come on - NO one knows about these things? Really?' While Cullen seems innocent to the point of naive there, it's a bit hard to side with them when by clicking on a few people there, you get quite enough of the grim story.

Cullen says mages are manipulating sympathy. Ok, great. I'd love to see evidence that this was a lie, that Grace made it up, etc. Blood magic is mean, fine. But these creepy guys sneaking into a boy's chambers are just - completely unsympathetic. Are we to believe the Grand Cleric never heard a whisper of all this? Is this justified because Meredith is scared of mages? (I'm scared of rogue assassins, personally, but I wouldn't send them off to a chronic abuser!)

That's my problem. I try to side with them - and find some poor kid talking about a heinous violation, with NO reason to think it's a lie. Alrik, I took to be the same idea as the Necro-mage who dismembers your mum - and Orsino is implicated in that near the end. (how much he knows, I never grasped, but let's say, 'a lot.') I did end up thinking they're all awful, granted, but it's the creep factor that has me stopped.

Mages are crazy - fine. But what I'm seeing from the Kerras & Gallows chatter is worse. I'll take crazy.

So true.  The amount of rape we're getting referenced to is just horrifying.  Even if you kill Karras in Act I and kill Alrik ASAP in Act II, 3 years later in Act III Alain still heavily implies (Anders is the only one who ever actually flat out says "rape" of course) he joined Thrask's rebellion because he's sick of getting raped.

Then I noticed in Bethany's letter from the Circle she refers to Ella as a kid.  Bethany is what, like late teens herself?  So how old does that put Ella?  Alrik's not just a rapist, he's a child molestor too?  For the love of GOD, how does anyone think the templar system is working?!

Sabariel wrote...

Justice does say that spirits can be corrupted by their own wants and desires and turn into demons. I think Justice's time in Kristoff's body already corrupted him a bit, merging with Anders' just pushed him over the edge into "full-demon" territory.... though everyone knows you never go full-demon *shot for bad joke*

He later goes back on that and clarifies, "I do know what makes demons as they are.  Such evil angers me, but I do not understand it."

An important bit not just for clarifying that we still really don't know what makes a spirit and what makes a demon, but it also shows us a very interesting piece of the puzzle.  Such evil angers him.  He isn't so one-dimensional that he doesn't feel anger until merging with Anders.  Whatever caused his transformation, it wasn't as simple as we're led to believe.

morbusswg wrote...

Lets not forget the lying, raping city guards that Avaline always seems to want to "look in to" but never does anything about... they certainly don't help the situation.. oh, and did we ever find out where they were hiding during the Qunari taking over the keep thing? I think I missed it...

I think this banter should clear things up for you:

Aveline: You are very close to losing your printing blocks, Varric.
Varric: Once more I am falsely accused of whatever it is that I am accused of. Falsely.
Aveline: Someone swapped the text of my recruitment poster with some filth from the Blooming Rose.
Varric: That does sound pretty good.
Aveline: Sure, fill barracks with ****s. But you've also filled the Rose with guards.
Varric: It is true what they say. The best comedy comes from tragedy.

Dave of Canada wrote...

DaeJi wrote...

Thankfully Dragon Age: Origins gave a more balanced look at mages so we know that Kirkwall is just an extreme.

What? The game that made them look innocent and oppressed for no reason, with the most dangerous and evil mage probably being Jowan?

If you count Awakenings, the Countress is far and away the most evil mage in DAO, DAA, *or* DA2.

[The Angry One]

Sabariel wrote...

Everyone forgets about poor Alain...

You mean the blood mage who followed not one but two sociopathic leaders?

[Sabariel]

The Angry One wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

Everyone forgets about poor Alain...

You mean the blood mage who followed not one but two sociopathic leaders?

Alain stood up to them in the end. He didn't go all bat-nuts and turn into a Harvester like someone else I know...

[Corto81]

Honestly, I thought most characters in DA II were portrayed very shallow and black-and-white.

While in DA:O you could even change certain companions attitude, in DA II you're stuck with lunatics, intellectual midgets, hypocrites, anger and hate-filled people for 7 years.

While my DA:O Grey Warden would've dumped them for some other more balanced (and deeper, better done character), my Hawke was stuck with Anders no matter how much I wanted to ditch him in Acts 1 or 2.

[Gnoster]

To each his own I guess, personally I love that DA2 is filled with insane mages as well as mages having no problem using blood magic to further their cause. It shows the "power corrupts" concept way better than anything in DAO did.
Personally I love the choice between mages and templars, because they are truly both in the wrong and in the right here. To me it is a case of "a few blacklist the many"; because some mages use blood magic, all are branded as malificarum, and because some templars are rapists and sadistic oppressors, some mages like Anders think all of them should die a horrible death. A perfect choice in the end game, because no matter what I choose, I feel for the other side.

[Fruit of the Doom]

Sabariel wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

Everyone forgets about poor Alain...

You mean the blood mage who followed not one but two sociopathic leaders?

Alain stood up to them in the end. He didn't go all bat-nuts and turn into a Harvester like someone else I know...

Fruit of the Doom wrote...



    
   

Modifié par Fruit of the Doom, 18 avril 2011 - 06:54 .

[JabbaDaHutt30]

Emergent System wrote...

I'm not even kidding. I tried to make a list of mages that I encountered during the story which weren't either completely psychopathic or so stupid that they may as well have been psychopaths because the consequences of their stupid, stupid actions lead to the same outcome.

Here's the list I came up with:
 - Hawke, if a mage, or Hawke's sister otherwise.
 - That one mage girl that Anders went all JUSTICE on and almost killed before I stopped him.
 - The half-dalish mage specialized in dreams or something, which I sent off to Tevinter.
 - That stupid, drunk apostate who just wanted to get laid.

That's all I could think of. Every single other mage in the entire game is either completely and utterly insane (that's most of the blood mages) or so incredibly stupid that they do completely and utterly insane things in deeply misguided attempts at accomplishing something dicrectly opposite of what their actions ended up doing.

Examples -

Merril: She is an extremely delusional, a-social blood mage who spends the whole story trying to bring a demon into this world, leading to the death of AT LEAST her elder, though in my case it lead to the destruction of her entire village because I'm not taking responsability for her stupidity. The irony being that her goal was to help her clan. Sadly for her, and her entire clan, she was far, far, far, far, faaaarrr too stupid, stupid, stupid to listen to anyone when they told her how stupid and stupid she was. Man, she sure is stupid. And stupid.

/rant over

malice and psychopathy are not the same as recklessness. She might be dangerous and reckless, but Merrill doesn't seem evil at all to me...

[JabbaDaHutt30]

Sabariel wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

Everyone forgets about poor Alain...

You mean the blood mage who followed not one but two sociopathic leaders?

Alain stood up to them in the end. He didn't go all bat-nuts and turn into a Harvester like someone else I know...

So Hawke followed Orsino too... that makes Hawke a psychopathic idiot too? The goal of the group he joined didn't seem all that unreasonable, and Thrask was one of the people leading it.

I don't know why Alain would be thought of as 'psychopathic'.