129 réponses à ce sujet

[Volourn]

I met a lot of mages in DA2 that weren't crazy. In the final rush for the the final showdown, I encountered a half dozen mages on one screen that were perfectly sane.

[Dave of Canada]

Love the hypocrisy in this thread.

[Torax]

 I'll sum up this thread with;

RAWR MAGIC!!! ™

[Raanz]

Emergent (OP)..well written and I couldn't agree more. I sided with the mages but they made it damn hard for me to do so. Even though I was extremely tolerant of many things; murder most foul....I had to off Anders after he terror-bombed the Chantry. F*** him.

[Aganerral]

Gascard DuPuis reforms? never saw that...if I don't kill him or report his location to templars, he comes with me and starts talking with Quentin about how wonderful Q's work is, then Varric killed him (with the great line 'you were going to do that, right?') Maybe if I don't bring varric along he lives and reforms?

And there is some slight foreshadowing that Orsino isn't all that nice a guy. In the 'All that remains' quest, you can find a note in Quentin's lair that says 'here are the books you asked for. Good work so far!' signed just 'O'. So not clear at the time, but in retrospect Orsino has been interested in blood magic for more than just the final battles.

[Aluvious]

Aganerral wrote...

Gascard DuPuis reforms? never saw that...if I don't kill him or report his location to templars, he comes with me and starts talking with Quentin about how wonderful Q's work is, then Varric killed him (with the great line 'you were going to do that, right?') Maybe if I don't bring varric along he lives and reforms?

And there is some slight foreshadowing that Orsino isn't all that nice a guy. In the 'All that remains' quest, you can find a note in Quentin's lair that says 'here are the books you asked for. Good work so far!' signed just 'O'. So not clear at the time, but in retrospect Orsino has been interested in blood magic for more than just the final battles.

Gascard does reform if you convince him with a peaceful or aggressive personality so long as you don't bring Varric with you. He helps you in your battle against the serial killer and writes a letter to you afterwards telling you that he has quit magic for good.

[Deified Data]

General User wrote...

And that one chap who escaped from Starkhaven and surrendered to Thrask.

You mean Alain, the guy who showed up with Grace again in Act III, when he aided those who kidnapped your sibling?

I'm sorry - being led around by a bunch of blood mages is forgiveable the first time, but when it happened again I saw no reason to show him mercy. He was already using blood magic - judging my his company, he's be an abomination in days.

[Deified Data]

Plaintiff wrote...

Anders isn't a maleficar: that term refers specifcaly to blood mages.

Maleficar refers to any mage who would use any magic to harm innocents, not just blood magic. Anders has proven by his actions that he's an unrepretant maleficar.

[Vicious]

lol at Thrask being a complete ******. I wanted to tell him 'hey Thrask, this lady wanted me to KILL you 6 years ago. What the hell are you doing with her?'

then she spouts off some insane diatribe and kills Thrask anyway.

It was just... ridiculous. Forced. Awful. Grace was not a character, she was a caricature of evil mages bent on revenge via blood magiks!

[Rifneno]

Deified Data wrote...

General User wrote...

And that one chap who escaped from Starkhaven and surrendered to Thrask.

You mean Alain, the guy who showed up with Grace again in Act III, when he aided those who kidnapped your sibling?

I'm sorry - being led around by a bunch of blood mages is forgiveable the first time, but when it happened again I saw no reason to show him mercy. He was already using blood magic - judging my his company, he's be an abomination in days.

If you take the diplomatic dialogue option with him, he basically says "I don't want to be a part of this, but after 6 years, I'm getting really sick of being raped by templars."  He's got a point.  Two if you count the--okay, that one's too tasteless even for me.

[Torax]

All he says is "templars ask things of us." that is all he says. You read it as rape. You. Just so we are clear.

[Deified Data]

Rifneno wrote...

Deified Data wrote...

General User wrote...

And that one chap who escaped from Starkhaven and surrendered to Thrask.

You mean Alain, the guy who showed up with Grace again in Act III, when he aided those who kidnapped your sibling?

I'm sorry - being led around by a bunch of blood mages is forgiveable the first time, but when it happened again I saw no reason to show him mercy. He was already using blood magic - judging my his company, he's be an abomination in days.

If you take the diplomatic dialogue option with him, he basically says "I don't want to be a part of this, but after 6 years, I'm getting really sick of being raped by templars."  He's got a point.  Two if you count the--okay, that one's too tasteless even for me.

I know the excuse he offers up - it's what I picked on my first playthrough, before I ever knew what Anders and Orsino were up to. I'm not entirely without sympathy, but I'm not about to defend a blood mage who aided in the kidnapping of my sister. Why should I believe anything he says? That stategy didn't work out so well with Grace, anyway. "I've no truck with demons" my ass.

Alain is a blood mage, of that there is no doubt. A weak blood mage, at that, given his inability to ever stand up for what's right ("If everyone is kidnapping the Champion's sister, would you do it, too?"). Mages have it tough, I'm not blind to that, but resorting to blood magic hasn't worked out well for anyone. Like Anders, he's just another mage hell-bent on proving the Templars right.

[Vicious]

oh, I love how they absolutely hint at the rape issue but completely skirt it. Mature dark fantasy my rear, that should have been a huge plot point, that the Templars really WERE taking horrific advantage of the Mages at every opportunity.

instead it's glossed over so we can show TEH EVIL MAGIK!

Sad Bioware. Just sad.

[Sabariel]

Torax wrote...

All he says is "templars ask things of us." that is all he says. You read it as rape. You. Just so we are clear.

What else would the Templars ask of them? "Hey mage, make me a sandwich!"?

[Vicious]

"make me a sandwich or i'll annull you." lol awesome

[Rifneno]

Torax wrote...

All he says is "templars ask things of us." that is all he says. You read it as rape. You. Just so we are clear.

Riiight.  And Ser Alrik was just asking Ella to do his taxes.  There's a difference between benefit of the doubt and just being remarkably naive, you know.

Modifié par Rifneno, 18 avril 2011 - 11:25 .

[Deified Data]

Rifneno wrote...

Torax wrote...

All he says is "templars ask things of us." that is all he says. You read it as rape. You. Just so we are clear.

Riiight.  And Ser Alrik was just asking Ella to do his taxes.  There's a difference between benefit of the doubt and just being remarkably naive, you know.

I think you're right.

That being said, kidnapping the Champion's sister isn't the best way to draw attention to your plight. It's a quick way to end up killed.

[Torax]

Rifneno wrote...

Torax wrote...

All he says is "templars ask things of us." that is all he says. You read it as rape. You. Just so we are clear.

Riiight.  And Ser Alrik was just asking Ella to do his taxes.  There's a difference between benefit of the doubt and just being remarkably naive, you know.

It's also another thing to make all Templars the villains while making a hero out of a guy that destroys a Chantry full of Priests and possibly innocents. That part is completely acceptable. Lets just forget all the other evil stuff we saw magic do with those that wield it wanting more power. Meanwhile of course 1 bad templar plus an ambigoius statement of a blood mage to make every templar a monster for the sake of justification for all the evils that magic causes through DA2. Just sayin. Since that is probably where you are going with this.

[Torax]

Should also ask is it at all possible that you all are reading rape into it. What if the Templars (Besides Alrik who is killed) were simply doing things like keeping them all trapped in their cells. Calling them curses and other negatives. Yelling at them and harassing them about using Blood Magic and so on. You want them to be even darker abusers. What if only a small number were like this? It didn't seem like Bethany was being raped and neither was Orsino. Why is this some sort of insistent form of abuse that has to be pushed on the mages? Is it to help you hate the Templars more than all the mages that resorted to Blood Magic through the game? It's what it seems to be to me.

P.S. I've never sided with the Templars. I haven't even bothered to get the achievement. I just don't understand how it is so polarized unless players are attempting to justify the templars are as truly dark as the mages you see besides the crazy lady.

Modifié par Torax, 18 avril 2011 - 11:37 .

[Rifneno]

So, on a totally unrelated matter, is there some "ignore irritant" thing I'm missing in the forum settings?  Apparently "block" doesn't do it. 

[Torax]

Rifneno wrote...

So, on a totally unrelated matter, is there some "ignore irritant" thing I'm missing in the forum settings?  Apparently "block" doesn't do it. 

Don't believe so. At most you can just report a post. I believe you can only block someone from sending private messages.

[lobi]

Sabariel wrote...

Torax wrote...

All he says is "templars ask things of us." that is all he says. You read it as rape. You. Just so we are clear.

What else would the Templars ask of them? "Hey mage, make me a sandwich!"?

Sexual abuse is Dominance and Control. How those in power have treated those under their control over the centuries. The Templars are not immune to corruption, this point is driven home by virtue of the fact they can also be possessed. The events in the circle is an example of what can happen when the abuse becomes institutionalised.
Remember Power corrupts. The Mages power, and The Templars Power, lyrium/magic/theidol. One institutional the other Individual, another Spiritual (Drugs). Think about what was happening globally during the games development cycle. Devs watch the news too.

EDIT: Stand at the big steel grid upstairs to the right of the Herbalist in the gallows and listen for a few moments.

Modifié par lobi, 18 avril 2011 - 11:45 .

[Torax]

lobi wrote...

Sabariel wrote...

Torax wrote...

All he says is "templars ask things of us." that is all he says. You read it as rape. You. Just so we are clear.

What else would the Templars ask of them? "Hey mage, make me a sandwich!"?

Sexual abuse is Dominance and Control. How those in power have treated those under their control over the centuries. The Templars are not immune to corruption, this point is driven home by virtue of the fact they can also be possessed. The events in the circle is an example of what can happen when the abuse becomes institutionalised.
Remember Power corrupts. The Mages power, and The Templars Power, lyrium/magic/theidol. One institutional the other Individual, another Spiritual (Drugs). Think about what was happening globally during the games development cycle. Devs watch the news too.

The most scary part is how the Chantry uses Lyrium as a type of control over the Templars. Granted if the Templars can get the Lyrium on their own through smugglers. Then they don't even need the Chantry...