541 réponses à ce sujet

[ExtremeOne]

Ultai wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

Thats what I am saying why weren't we given that choice . What reason does Shepard have in 3 for working with the Alliance .  

Well for one, Shepard was in the alliance military for years so he's a military man.  He wouldn't be where he is today without them.  Even renegades in me2 could be dismissive of TIM, the point of me2 was never to join Cerberus as you very much desire.  The alliance or Ashley/Kaidan never betrayed you as I've seen you say from time to time.  People thought you were dead and moved on with their lives in that 2 year period. 

Then out of nowhere (if a love interest case) Shep comes back and is working with a very questionable organisation.  And what? They're supposed to be "Oh that's cool I'm so glad you're back here let me be subjected to your charm/intimidate i win buttons so I don't have views of my own?"  I could see where they were coming from and how they might have been just alittle emotional at that point.

Hopefully we both can agree that we hope the reason Cerberus is hunting Shepard isn't petty (I don't like how Shep talked to me, I'm gonna kill him now) and it's well reasoned and perhaps might have a dose logic in it.  I would hope for them to try and stay morally gray.

  









Bioware screwed up the story of 2 as it concerns us renegade player , If not remaing with Cerberus was part of the renegade ending choice in 2 . Then what was the point of it . I mean logically the renegade choice means your Shepard is staying with Cerberus because you saved the base .  what real reason does TIM have for turning on you .  

[seirhart]

have you even thought even once that once we do what TIM wants; that after we are said and done TIM and Cerebrus consider us expendable and a threat and wants us removed permeantly. If that is the case then cerebures will be gunning from us until we deal with them.

except for jacob and miranda and those on board maybe.

Modifié par seirhart, 22 avril 2011 - 12:59 .

[CheesesackIII]

Shepard has served his purpose. Cerberus brought him back specifically because the Collectors were taking colonies, and they needed him to stop it by going through the Omega 4 relay. Whether you keep the base or not, Shepard has done what cerberus rebuilt him to do. There's no reason for them to keep him around any more; he's done his job.

It's quite obvious also, that Shepard is a threat to TIM either way. If you're paragon, you hate Cerberus and want to see them exposed and brought down as the terrorists they are. If you're Renegade, you want TIM gone so you can control them yourself. Shepard states that TIM can either start taking orders from him or get lost. Either way TIM will want you out of the picture; he's not too keen on giving up Cerberus to the guy he ressurected.

That's why they want to kill you in ME 3. You could argue that it was stupid of them to use you in the first place, but that's another issue. It makes perfect sense for them to want you dead no matter what you did; there is no option to be a Cerberus a*s kisser who does what they're told (nor should there be, that's not how Shepard rolls). Paragons want TIM and Cerberus gone. Renegades want TIM gone so they can call the shots. It seems logical that he want you dead.

Modifié par CheesesackIII, 22 avril 2011 - 01:15 .

[Ultai]

ExtremeOne wrote...

Bioware screwed up the story of 2 as it concerns us renegade player , If not remaing with Cerberus was part of the renegade ending choice in 2 . Then what was the point of it . I mean logically the renegade choice means your Shepard is staying with Cerberus because you saved the base .  what real reason does TIM have for turning on you .  

www.youtube.com/watch

The ending choice wasn't meant to be a "choose this to join the alliance/council, choose this to join cerberus."  No where in that renegade dialog can you conclude that Shep wants to join Cerberus.  It wouldn't make sense for paragade players like me who keep the base either, since I never had the intention of joining Cerberus. 

[M-Sinistrari]

Ultai wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch

The ending choice wasn't meant to be a "choose this to join the alliance/council, choose this to join cerberus."  No where in that renegade dialog can you conclude that Shep wants to join Cerberus.  It wouldn't make sense for paragade players like me who keep the base either, since I never had the intention of joining Cerberus. 

Thanks for posting that dialog, it's been too long since I did that on my renegade playthrough and I couldn't quite remember all of it.

As far as reasons for Cerberus to be gunning for Shepard, there's quite a few.  We've got the obvious ones from a Paragon Shep flipping TIM the finger, we've got the 'you destroyed the base' reason and for those who did hand over the base or who agreed with Cerberus for whatever reasons, we've got the indoctrination route which would be kinda cheesy if they opt to have TIM indoctrinated, but there's the possibility that TIM's okay, but a goodly amount of the group below him being indoctrinated and either striking out on thier own motives or trumping up info to make TIM believe Shepard's a threat.

There's also the possibility of rogue elements within Cerberus making thier own move.  After all as Overlord and Pragia proved, while TIM says nothing goes on without his knowing, it's still possible for it to be otherwise since he's more about the results than what it took to get there.

And we also have the possibility that as much as TIM"s not to be trusted that he doesn't trust others as well.  For all the sticking it to Cerberus that happened in ME1, it's possible that TIM might consider any Cerberus rah-rah from Shepard in ME2 to be a cover to get in deeper into the organization to sabotage it.  After all Shep does manage to pull the loyalty of some major group figures like Miranda to his/her side.  With the Collectors dealt with, there'd be nothing beyond the Reapers to draw Shep's attention so it would be plausible for TIM to order a cell to take down Shepard before they potentially could do the same to Cerberus.

[justcool]

The way i see it TIM is indoctrinated and is actualy being directly controled by a reaper, similar to the
the way harbinger controls the collecter general.The reason i think this is cause is firstly
they both have glowing eyes, they both have a interest in shepard and they both talk about "saving"
humanity.


the reason there have they minions fight each other is like the geth they have a difference
opinion about how to go about it, kinda like how Legion says about geth and the Heretics "one is less than two.two is less than three."
Different way same outcome.IMO


PS If you think about it that way TIM's actions make sense and have him turn on you since if you destory the base
he cant make a human-reaper or whatever he has planed and if you keep it he will want you to use you for it.

Modifié par justcool, 22 avril 2011 - 02:53 .

[Chewin]

^Eh?

[justcool]

im sorry if what i said didnt come across to well im kinda new to the whole forum thing.

[M-Sinistrari]

justcool wrote...

The way i see it TIM is indoctrinated and is actualy being directly controled by a reaper, similar to the
the way harbinger controls the collecter general.The reason i think this is cause is firstly
they both have glowing eyes, they both have a interest in shepard and they both talk about "saving"
humanity.

I do have to discount the glowing eyes thing since they're different things altogether.  Since upgrading my video card, TIM just happens to have synthetic eyes same as a very renegade Shep's eyes.  They have the same electronic patterning, just different colours.

[Chewin]

justcool wrote...

im sorry if what i said didnt come across to well im kinda new to the whole forum thing.

Nah, you were clear on your statement. I just disagree with you, that's all:)

[justcool]

M-Sinistrari wrote...

justcool wrote...

The way i see it TIM is indoctrinated and is actualy being directly controled by a reaper, similar to the
the way harbinger controls the collecter general.The reason i think this is cause is firstly
they both have glowing eyes, they both have a interest in shepard and they both talk about "saving"
humanity.

I do have to discount the glowing eyes thing since they're different things altogether.  Since upgrading my video card, TIM just happens to have synthetic eyes same as a very renegade Shep's eyes.  They have the same electronic patterning, just different colours.

Oh ok i was just thinking we have never seen a reaper control a human before so maybe there eyes go blue or something i guess not.

Modifié par justcool, 22 avril 2011 - 03:06 .

[M-Sinistrari]

justcool wrote...


Oh ok i was just thinking we have never seen a reaper control a human before so maybe there eyes go blue or something i guess not.

Actually we have in Arrival, looks the same as when Harbinger assumes direct control.

[justcool]

M-Sinistrari wrote...

justcool wrote...


Oh ok i was just thinking we have never seen a reaper control a human before so maybe there eyes go blue or something i guess not.

Actually we have in Arrival, looks the same as when Harbinger assumes direct control.

guess im gonna have to buy arrival  then and have a look

[DxWill10]

I always read these types of threads looking for the explanation to the reason these people continue to play a game they dislike so much. Still disappointed

[DarthSliver]

Well the way the OP is looking at it, s/he should disregard ME2 altogether if you think about. The whole kill Shepard and resurrection thing, thats something that doesnt make sense in itself. But the way I look at things if you enjoyed the game, its easy to look over some details as long as you mostly enjoyed the experience of the game.
This is truly a case of OP over expecting from the Devs. A reasonable thing would be why is TIM going after Shepard and will the reason be within his character or something cheesy.

[squee913]

There are two other possibilities that I have not seen anyone talk about.

1.) Shepard is a living success of the Lazarus project. The ability to bring one back to life would be one of Cerberus most valuable secrets. I would even say that the secret is more valuable than Shepard. I would not say that Shep is working for the Alliance again, but they differently have their paws on him/her and the ship. TIM could be worried that someone will study Shep. The only way to keep the secret of the Lazarus project from getting out would be to get rid of the evidence. If TIM feels that Shep is no longer working with him, or that their is a good chance the Alliance will learn Cerberus' most guarded secrets, he would hunt Shep down to keep that from happening.

2.) According to Retribution, Anderson figuratively kick Cerberus in the nuts. I would say that TIM would not have a very high opinion of him. And now Shepard is talking to Anderson again. Both Renegade and Paragon Shep have always been friends with Anderson. If TIM thinks this friendship is stronger than Shep's loyalty to Cerberus, he would conclude that Shep would spill all of his/her considerable beans to Anderson unless dealt with.

[seirhart]

my shepard kept the cereberus files for himself and according to edi that if the files were to be released it would severly hinder all operations of cereberus. My shepard, he has and will always be friends with Anderson; that is why he prefers anderson as a council member. There is 2 things i'm going to do if given the chance immediatly give the cereberus info to the alien council and a copy to anderson.

[Altered Idol]

All we can do is speculate at the moment.

Does Sheperd know too much?? If he destroys the station, then the reason why he could be trying to kill you is obvious. If you saved the station, you know its location and how to get there so you''ve become a liability.

Could TIM have somehow agreed a deal with the Reapers to spare Cerberus in exchange for ridding them of Sheperd, regardless of his supposed loyalities to the progress of humanity.

Could Sheperd mission to unite all the races of the galaxy go against the goals and aspirations of Cerberus. If you think about it, aliens save Earth = people would be more accepting of aliens and Cerberus becomes less influential.

I'm not sure. I look forward to finding out though.

[SalsaDMA]

cerberus shouldn't even be capable of doing anything remotely usefull after the raid done on them in retribution.

[seirhart]

Altered Idol wrote...

All we can do is speculate at the moment.

Does Sheperd know too much?? If he destroys the station, then the reason why he could be trying to kill you is obvious. If you saved the station, you know its location and how to get there so you''ve become a liability.

Could TIM have somehow agreed a deal with the Reapers to spare Cerberus in exchange for ridding them of Sheperd, regardless of his supposed loyalities to the progress of humanity.

Could Sheperd mission to unite all the races of the galaxy go against the goals and aspirations of Cerberus. If you think about it, aliens save Earth = people would be more accepting of aliens and Cerberus becomes less influential.

I'm not sure. I look forward to finding out though.

Now I can just see this if aliens save earth and humanity then all of humanity or most of it will change their opinion of aliens and would be far more willing to get along with the other species than ever before which in the end will probably diminish the influence cerberus has and TIM will not want that. So the best way to prevent the other species to save earth is to stop the one person who has a chance of uniting the other species into helping earth and that is shepard.

[ExtremeOne]

DarthSliver wrote...

Well the way the OP is looking at it, s/he should disregard ME2 altogether if you think about. The whole kill Shepard and resurrection thing, thats something that doesnt make sense in itself. But the way I look at things if you enjoyed the game, its easy to look over some details as long as you mostly enjoyed the experience of the game.
This is truly a case of OP over expecting from the Devs. A reasonable thing would be why is TIM going after Shepard and will the reason be within his character or something cheesy.

  








I am simply saying is the stpry in ME 3 already has a major issue . That is If Cerberus was planning on turning on Shepard to start with. Then why spend 4 billion credits and bring him back. Could the collector base have something to do with it . Maybe but that is just going down the stupid and silly path.  It sounds like Bioware is doing a retcon again. I know people on here do not want to see precious Bioware get called out for this.  If there was a logical and legit reason then tell us . I mean you already put the info in the mag .  Its clearly fan service to the anti Cerberus fans .  Renegade players get the shaft simple as that .  The renegade choice at the end of 2 should mean something. Bioware is saying by this news that the renegade choice never had any meaning at all .  

[008Zulu]

The trial isn't going to be anything major. The Alliance will find Shepard innocent (Paragon Shep will tell the truth, Renegades will say the Batarians were testing a new WMD), and the Batarians wont be in any position to start a war because the Reaper fleet just showed up in the middle of their territory.

[didymos1120]

SalsaDMA wrote...

cerberus shouldn't even be capable of doing anything remotely usefull after the raid done on them in retribution.

Re-read it then.  It's quite clear TIM still has all sorts of facilities and resources still at his disposal, not to mention operatives.  And contingency plans for rebuilding.  No they won't be back up to the level they were for awhile, but they're hardly destroyed or rendered harmless and impotent.

Modifié par didymos1120, 23 avril 2011 - 12:31 .

[88mphSlayer]

seirhart wrote...

have you even thought even once that once we do what TIM wants; that after we are said and done TIM and Cerebrus consider us expendable and a threat and wants us removed permeantly. If that is the case then cerebures will be gunning from us until we deal with them.

except for jacob and miranda and those on board maybe.

that's nice and all but... isn't sending an assassin or squads after you indicative of the lack of forethought or planning? sounds like killing Shepard was never planned out

TIM had 2 years to plan exactly this scenario out so if the best he could come up with after 2 years was "send an assassin" then he's the dumbest villian ever

[Seboist]

88mphSlayer wrote...

seirhart wrote...

have you even thought even once that once we do what TIM wants; that after we are said and done TIM and Cerebrus consider us expendable and a threat and wants us removed permeantly. If that is the case then cerebures will be gunning from us until we deal with them.

except for jacob and miranda and those on board maybe.

that's nice and all but... isn't sending an assassin or squads after you indicative of the lack of forethought or planning? sounds like killing Shepard was never planned out

TIM had 2 years to plan exactly this scenario out so if the best he could come up with after 2 years was "send an assassin" then he's the dumbest villian ever

I'm sticking to my "Wizard did it" explanation for the time being. It makes absolutely no sense that TIM would be sending goons against Shepard regardlesss of CB fate based on what we've seen in ME1 and 2.