541 réponses à ce sujet

[Seboist]

Endurium wrote...

Since Bioware likes to market the ME series as "reflecting the player's decisions across all three games and certain DLCs", it would be really nice of them to:

1. Patch ME1 once again to ensure plot flags correctly reflect player decisions and are properly exported to save files.

2. Patch ME2 once again to ensure imported ME1 plot flags are properly read and acted upon, and all new plot flags correctly reflect player decisions in ME2 and are properly exported to save files.

3. Make sure ME3 correctly reads imported ME1/2 plot flags and acts upon them.

It's irritating enough that I have to deal with Renegaded Conrad on my completely Paragon Shepard, and I get to listen to news of Shiara's going out of business even though I cleared her name, etc. Part of me is not looking forward to seeing how ME3 ignores my earlier choices because of these persistent plot flag glitches.

Short of doing "trilogy pack" with extra features, the ship has long sailed for that. They still haven't bothered to fix the low res Garrus face glitch.

[Moirai]

Late to the party, but I'm actually finding this a fascinating thread. However, having plowed through ten plus pages I have unfortunately found that I just don't have the time to read every post, which is a shame. So please forgive me if I touch on points already covered.

Pro Cerberus
============

I really don't understand this. To consider Cerberus to be a bunch of good guys purely because of their focus of attention in ME2 just seems staggeringly naive. Cerberus has always been about furthering the human cause in the galaxy, irrespective of who their 'adversary' is, in any way possible and no matter what the cost. Just because that 'adversary ' is the Collectors and, by association, the Reapers in the second game changes that not one jot. Time and time again throughout ME2 Cerberus' less than holy activities are revealed, and they are not the behaviour of an organisation who's motives or goals further the best interests of all humans. They simply do whatever it takes to achieve their own 'personal' vision of how things should be, even if that means using and experimenting on those very humans whos apparent interests they keep close to their hearts.

They are not nice people, any which way you cut it, irrespective of how much T.I.M. tries to rationalise their behaviour or argue that the end justifies the means.

Of course Cerberus will attempt to sell you the idea that they have humans best interests at heart. Of course they will. But anyone who studies this carefully can see that the only interests they have are their own. Actions speak far louder than words here.

I've nothing against the Cerberus employees at the lower echelons of the organisation. They are simply too cut off from the machinations of their leaders to be able to understand what is really going on. I'm sure they think they are doing the right thing in helping to further human goals in the galaxy. I'm also sure that the Hitler youth thought that their leaders intentions and ambitions were purely noble as well in trying to further the goals of the Aryan race on Earth...

Sometimes, all is not what it seems.

Or maybe it is, but just not how you thought it was.

You might think that T.I.M. is giving Shepard the option of choice and freedom to decide how to deal with many things. But that, for the most, is simply illusion. In the end though he is just using Shepard and his/her want to stop the Reapers to achieve Cerberus' goals. And yes, he will play on your humanity to save all those poor poor colonists from such an awful fate. I mean, how utterly despicable and dreadful is it for someone to take humans against their will and experiment on them...

One word: Jack.

As others have said; Shepard is just a tool, another means to achieve Cerberus' goals. Mankind's best hope? Maybe. But you are also very much Cerberus' best hope too. That is the real reason for spending billions to bring Shepard back.

And once the Reaper threat is over? What then for Cerberus? Who becomes their next 'adversary'...?


Renegade = I like Cerberus
===========================

Utter nonsense.

Being a Renegade or Paragon is a personality trait. It does not imply association or want of association with any specific organisation.

All this nonsense about how someone who dislikes Cerberus must be a goodie goodie Paragon is just that. Nonsense.

As an example of how a Paragon can be seen to be more pro Cerberus than a Renegade I give you a summary of the Shepard/T.I.M. exchange after the Collector ship mission....

Paragon: "Ah, okay. So your motives were sound. I didn't much like your reasoning, but I'll accept that for now."
Renegade: "You b*st*rd! You pull a stunt like that again and the Collectors will be the least of your problems!"

Like I said; Being a paragon or renegade has nothing to do with potentially 'liking' Cerberus. They are just different personality traits that can be mixed and matched to define your character and their path through the game. Nothing more.


====


As it stands though, there is nothing in the game which implies an option to be pro Cerberus. Shepard can either put up with them because they are useful to him/her too or actively give them the finger on pretty much every occasion, and that can be a Paragon or a Renegade choice. If you decide to be 'pro' Cerberus though for some personal reason, then that is a game player choice and something external from the game itself.

Besides, even keeping the Collector base is not fundamentally a 'pro Cerberus' decision for Shepard. It's more a potential 'stop the Reapers' decision, but with the acceptance that Cerberus can directly benefit from it as well. It's simply a gamble. Take a chance in stopping the Reapers with their own tech, even though it means Cerberus getting their already dirty hands on something that gives them even more potential power to abuse...? Or destroy it to stop that from happening, even though it may mean additional sacrifices in lives to stop the Reapers without it...?

Irrespective of the apparent Paragon/Renegade choices presented at that point, both are considerable gambles.

I don't honestly think it was ever BioWare's intention that you should 'like' Cerberus. You might make certain choices, because they fitted in with your personal view on how things should be done, and which happened to be in Cerberus' interests too. But making those choices doesn't automatically mean Shepard likes Cerberus. Shepard has his/her own goals and beliefs, and I was never given any indications in my play throughs that one of those goals was to be a Cerberus lap-dog.

Modifié par Moirai, 25 avril 2011 - 04:05 .

[Last Vizard]

Moirai wrote...

I don't honestly think it was ever BioWare's intention that you should 'like' Cerberus. You might make certain choices, because they fitted in with your personal view on how things should be done, and which happened to be in Cerberus' interests too. But making those choices doesn't automatically mean Shepard likes Cerberus. Shepard has his/her own goals and beliefs, and I was never given any indications in my play throughs that one of those goals was to be a Cerberus lap-dog.

History often vindicates extreme actions, none of what Cerberus has done is new to humanity (in context) while "evil" countries were defeated in our own history..... the Allies kept the data, while in some cases they developed upon it (alot of air flight design and safety was tested on people before a particular war), i think the cost for Humanity will be greater if we don't explore every possible path to defeat the Reapers and/or Aliens.

Cerberus aren't the good guys, but then who is? i think Fable 3 did a good job with its story choices due to the fact that if you were "good" most of the Kingdom died however if you were "bad" most of the Kingdom lived... Most people on these forums would take the moral high ground and risk all while others will be the lesser of two evils.

You might not like it but someone has to lose in order for others to gain, what Cerberus did/does was/is evil and selfish (all for TIMs personal gain).  In the end, is it better for TIM/Cerberus to rule the Galaxy or Humanity after Reaper invasion for however long it takes for said Empire to fall or reform while ensuring we (aliens too) survive? or is it better that we keep our hands clean (merc/bad guy blood not counted) and risk all just so our Shep can sleep soundly at night without having to see the faces of people/civillations he sacrificed to win the day?

Still off topic but on this current topic, I am an Empire guy (starwars) under Sith rule there was stability and growth, people were elevated in position due to their ability not connections (for the most part) and there was little to no war... yes alien threats to Humanity were being wiped out but it was to bring permanent stability to the galaxy. 

The Rebel forces (mostly Human) fought for the rights of aliens so that their would be equality in the galaxy, they succeeded however the galaxy was now unstable and many many wars followed shortly after.... these wars were against aliens trying to carve out their own empire and even though the fragile Republic defeated each new enemy, the cost in lives continued to grow and the Republic slowly started ripping itself apart causing more and more death.... blah bloody blah, who were the real bad guys? History and Hindsight vindicates, not often but sometimes the "bad" guys are right.

Modifié par Last Vizard, 25 avril 2011 - 08:22 .

[Endurium]

Seboist wrote...

Endurium wrote...

Since Bioware likes to market the ME series as "reflecting the player's decisions across all three games and certain DLCs", it would be really nice of them to:

1. Patch ME1 once again to ensure plot flags correctly reflect player decisions and are properly exported to save files.

2. Patch ME2 once again to ensure imported ME1 plot flags are properly read and acted upon, and all new plot flags correctly reflect player decisions in ME2 and are properly exported to save files.

3. Make sure ME3 correctly reads imported ME1/2 plot flags and acts upon them.

It's irritating enough that I have to deal with Renegaded Conrad on my completely Paragon Shepard, and I get to listen to news of Shiara's going out of business even though I cleared her name, etc. Part of me is not looking forward to seeing how ME3 ignores my earlier choices because of these persistent plot flag glitches.

Short of doing "trilogy pack" with extra features, the ship has long sailed for that. They still haven't bothered to fix the low res Garrus face glitch.

And yet a fellow player has produced a hi-res face fix for Garrus, not to mention hi-res textures for other models. I guess it's no longer valid to think a game developer will take responsibiity for the products they release. Not sure what the point of QA staff is when obvious things like these make it out the door anyway.

[88mphSlayer]

ExtremeOne wrote...

I still find it stupid Hackett asked for Shepard's help . Oh but that is right Shepard is suppose to be this Space god that can deal with all problems

i can understand Hackett asking for help but i can't understand the "going it alone" bit

although now that i think about it Shep going on trial doesn't make sense... if it was an alliance operation anyways would Dr. Kenson go on trial if she hadn't gotten indoctrinated and pushed the button? doubtful

Modifié par 88mphSlayer, 25 avril 2011 - 07:37 .

[Moirai]

Last Vizard wrote...

Moirai wrote...

I don't honestly think it was ever BioWare's intention that you should 'like' Cerberus. You might make certain choices, because they fitted in with your personal view on how things should be done, and which happened to be in Cerberus' interests too. But making those choices doesn't automatically mean Shepard likes Cerberus. Shepard has his/her own goals and beliefs, and I was never given any indications in my play throughs that one of those goals was to be a Cerberus lap-dog.

History often vindicates extreme actions, none of what Cerberus has done is new to humanity (in context) while "evil" countries where defeated in our own history..... the Allies kept the data, while in some cases they developed upon it (alot of air flight design and safety was tested on people before a particular war), i think the cost for Humanity will be greater if we don't explore every possible path to defeat the Reapers and/or Aliens.

Cerberus aren't the good guys, but then who is? i think Fable 3 did a good job with its story choices due to the fact that if you were "good" most of the Kingdom died however if you were "bad" most of the Kingdom lived... Most people on these forums would take the moral high ground and risk all while others will be the lesser of two evils.

You might not like it but someone has to lose in order for others to gain, what Cerberus did/does was/is evil and selfish (all for TIMs personal gain).  In the end, is it better for TIM/Cerberus to rule the Galaxy or Humanity after Reaper invasion for however long it takes for said Empire to fall or reform while ensuring we (aliens too) survive? or is it better that we keep our hands clean (merc/bad guy blood not counted) and risk all just so our Shep can sleep soundly at night without having to see the faces of people/civillations he sacrificed to win the day?

Still off topic but on this current topic, I am an Empire guy (starwars) under Sith rule there was stability and growth, people were elevated in position due to their ability not connections (for the most part) and there was little to no war... yes alien threats to Humanity were being wiped out but it was to bring permanent stability to the galaxy. 

The Rebel forces (mostly Human) fought for the rights of aliens so that their would be equality in the galaxy, they succeeded however the galaxy was now unstable and many many wars followed shortly after.... these wars were against aliens trying to carve out their own empire and even though the fragile Republic defeated each new enemy, the cost in lives continued to grow and the Republic slowly started ripping itself apart causing more and more death.... blah bloody blah, who were the real bad guys? History and Hindsight vindicates, not often but sometimes the "bad" guys are right.

Thanks for the reply. You make some very good relevant points.

I agree that sometimes extreme actions are the only sensible course to take to achieve a satisfactory conclusion. However - and I'm sure I'm probably being terribly idealistic here - it's not so much the action itself that is questionable to me or causes me issues, but the motivation and reasoning behind it.

Cerberus may, quite reasonably, state that they wish to destroy the Reapers to protect mankind. But is it truly mankind as a whole that Cerberus wants to protect, or simply its own powerbase within it? Put it this way; do you think Cerberus would be prepared to sacrifice its entire organisation to protect mankind?

Yes, I know that's an unfair question really. We just don't know. But I'm willing to take a leap of faith and say, no.

And then there's the issue of whether Cerberus simply views the Reapers in regards to being a threat to mankind alone. Do they give a damn if most of the rest of the known species are wiped out in the effort to stop the Reapers?

Again, probably an unfair question. But one I would again have to answer in all honesty with, no.

There is, unfortunately, a lot that we simply don't know about Cerberus and its motives at this point, that is true, and I'm sincerely hoping that this is fleshed out in ME3.

But, be that as it may, I'm quite convinced that T.I.M. was very much counting on the Collectors having a base of some sort. It would have been logical to assume as much, as they must have had a 'home' or 'rally' point of some kind. In which case, who's to say that it wasn't ultimately Cerberus' goal to secure that base in the first place, if you look past the sugar coated reasoning to pander to Shepard's morals and sense of duty to save the poor colonists...

At the end of the day though, I'm gambling with not saving the Collector's base. I know that. However, I'm simply not happy with potentially swapping one boogieman for another once the Reapers get their butts kicked. I realise that it may cost additional lives, maybe in terms of millions, although we just don't know that absolutely yet. However, freedom gained on another's terms is not really freedom at all. Especially when it's not just your own species that can be affected.

But that's just my personal viewpoint, and, as I say, I'm taking a gamble on it. I just hope that BioWare makes the choice important, whichever way it goes...

Modifié par Moirai, 25 avril 2011 - 07:51 .

[M-Sinistrari]

squee913 wrote...
So I ask again... you're just trolling us like ultimate weapon trolled cloud across the bloody map, right?

Considering how many posts from ExtremeOne I've read all saying the same thing despite some very well done posts pointing out otherwise, at this point I'd say it's either trolling or in an intense state of denial over interpretation.

For all the claims of renegade options from ME2 being ignored in ME3, so far I've not seen any evidence of that.  But then with how little solid info's out there about ME3 at this point, that's not surprising.  I'd like to see it if it exists.

Secondly going renegade doesn't mean Shep's joined Cerberus.  I've done a couple renegade playthroughs and nothing of the sort showed up in dialog, same as paragon doesn't mean Shep's rejoined the Alliance.  I've not seen anything changing Shep's Alliance status from KIA/MIA to Active unless going that route with the Citadel somehow carries over, but then in light of how Hackett was talking in Arrival, it doesn't seem it.  So, to me this is that Shep's a free agent with possible Spectre status, which is pretty much the best thing for him/her.

At this point I wouldn't be surprised if ExtremeOne built all this up in his head about Cerberus and when he later played ME1 and saw exactly how messed up they were has essentially done the equivalent of sticking fingers in the ears and yelling 'LALALALALA' to drown out all evidence to the contrary on his mental image of Cerberus.  I've asked him twice for his opinion of the Alliance and Cerberus as they were in ME1 without getting ME2 into it and he's ignored the question  or is refusing to answer since it goes against his mental image of Cerberus.  It's as if it'd be some crushing blow to admit others might have a valid point or his view came from misinterpreting what's there.

You could have Casey Hudson show up at his house with certified Bioware documents detailing verything along with the owners of Bioware to tell him that Cerberus isn't a good oriented organization and never was and he'd likely still tell them they were wrong.

[Last Vizard]

Moirai wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

Moirai wrote...

I don't honestly think it was ever BioWare's intention that you should 'like' Cerberus. You might make certain choices, because they fitted in with your personal view on how things should be done, and which happened to be in Cerberus' interests too. But making those choices doesn't automatically mean Shepard likes Cerberus. Shepard has his/her own goals and beliefs, and I was never given any indications in my play throughs that one of those goals was to be a Cerberus lap-dog.

History often vindicates extreme actions, none of what Cerberus has done is new to humanity (in context) while "evil" countries where defeated in our own history..... the Allies kept the data, while in some cases they developed upon it (alot of air flight design and safety was tested on people before a particular war), i think the cost for Humanity will be greater if we don't explore every possible path to defeat the Reapers and/or Aliens.

Cerberus aren't the good guys, but then who is? i think Fable 3 did a good job with its story choices due to the fact that if you were "good" most of the Kingdom died however if you were "bad" most of the Kingdom lived... Most people on these forums would take the moral high ground and risk all while others will be the lesser of two evils.

You might not like it but someone has to lose in order for others to gain, what Cerberus did/does was/is evil and selfish (all for TIMs personal gain).  In the end, is it better for TIM/Cerberus to rule the Galaxy or Humanity after Reaper invasion for however long it takes for said Empire to fall or reform while ensuring we (aliens too) survive? or is it better that we keep our hands clean (merc/bad guy blood not counted) and risk all just so our Shep can sleep soundly at night without having to see the faces of people/civillations he sacrificed to win the day?

Still off topic but on this current topic, I am an Empire guy (starwars) under Sith rule there was stability and growth, people were elevated in position due to their ability not connections (for the most part) and there was little to no war... yes alien threats to Humanity were being wiped out but it was to bring permanent stability to the galaxy. 

The Rebel forces (mostly Human) fought for the rights of aliens so that their would be equality in the galaxy, they succeeded however the galaxy was now unstable and many many wars followed shortly after.... these wars were against aliens trying to carve out their own empire and even though the fragile Republic defeated each new enemy, the cost in lives continued to grow and the Republic slowly started ripping itself apart causing more and more death.... blah bloody blah, who were the real bad guys? History and Hindsight vindicates, not often but sometimes the "bad" guys are right.

Thanks for the reply. You make some very good relevant points.

I agree that sometimes extreme actions are the only sensible course to take to achieve a satisfactory conclusion. However - and I'm sure I'm probably being terribly idealistic here - it's not so much the action itself that is questionable to me or causes me issues, but the motivation and reasoning behind it.

Cerberus may, quite reasonably, state that they wish to destroy the Reapers to protect mankind. But is it truly mankind as a whole that Cerberus wants to protect, or simply its own powerbase within it? Put it this way; do you think Cerberus would be prepared to sacrifice its entire organisation to protect mankind?

Yes, I know that's an unfair question really. We just don't know. But I'm willing to take a leap of faith and say, no.

And then there's the issue of whether Cerberus simply views the Reapers in regards to being a threat to mankind alone. Do they give a damn if most of the rest of the known species are wiped out in the effort to stop the Reapers?

Again, probably an unfair question. But one I would again have to answer in all honesty with, no.

There is, unfortunately, a lot that we simply don't know about Cerberus and its motives at this point, that is true, and I'm sincerely hoping that this is fleshed out in ME3.

But, be that as it may, I'm quite convinced that T.I.M. was very much counting on the Collectors having a base of some sort. It would have been logical to assume as much, as they must have had a 'home' or 'rally' point of some kind. In which case, who's to say that it wasn't ultimately Cerberus' goal to secure that base in the first place, if you look past the sugar coated reasoning to pander to Shepard's morals and sense of duty to save the poor colonists...

At the end of the day though, I'm gambling with not saving the Collector's base. I know that. However, I'm simply not happy with potentially swapping one boogieman for another once the Reapers get their butts kicked. I realise that it may cost additional lives, maybe in terms of millions, although we just don't know that absolutely yet. However, freedom gained on another's terms is not really freedom at all. Especially when it's not just your own species that can be affected.

But that's just my personal viewpoint, and, as I say, I'm taking a gamble on it. I just hope that BioWare makes the choice important, whichever way it goes...

I agree with you, no TIM wouldn't sacrifice Cerberus and its power base for those that don't support them and that is to say most Humans IMO... however i wouldn't be surprised if there was a great many "patriotic" people who take propaganda at face value and support Cerberus due to fear of Aliens.  (although most fear is warranted due to our civillisations small size) --- i assume the ME universe is similar to ours in the way that allies are potential enemies while enemies are potential allies.

Should we trust aliens when even Citadel history shows how they treat races such as Krogan, Quarian, Rachni and the other minor races? I lol'd at this thought due to being 22 and thinking things like "when i was young", but i remember when i became interested in history and started asking questions about the Great War, WW2, other European wars and the more i learned the more i realised that the only thing preventing war is our greed....

The ones who stand to lose the most money are the people with their hands on the "button" (for the most part), our greatest flaw seems to also be our strength, Cerberus will lose money if Earth is utterly devastated.  The consumer base (us) drives the economy, generating income at some point for TIM..... he needs money to build weapons to kill aliens and/or take over Humanity, i think he'll want to stop the Reapers as much as anyone. (unless he is on their side but that wouldn't make any sense story wise)

I being a Cerberus supporter and keeping the base, wouldn't be too surprised if Shep has to Kill TIM at some point due his fear of Shep either taking over Cerberus or stopping him. Is TIM hunting all Sheps at the start of ME 3? if so, then maybe the Collector Base will be Sheps "Star Forge"--- (Kotor) and this leads you on the path where Shep not only takes over Cerberus but also has the tech to take the galaxy? (like a fallout ending montage where all your choices from 1-3 define the finishing story).

[Moirai]

Last Vizard wrote...

The ones who stand to lose the most money are the people with their hands on the "button" (for the most part), our greatest flaw seems to also be our strength, Cerberus will lose money if Earth is utterly devastated.  The consumer base (us) drives the economy, generating income at some point for TIM..... he needs money to build weapons to kill aliens and/or take over Humanity, i think he'll want to stop the Reapers as much as anyone. (unless he is on their side but that wouldn't make any sense story wise)

Agreed. The Reapers are without doubt a threat to Cerberus, not only directly, like most people, but also indirectly with regards to their 'business' interests. I think that T.I.M. will be looking for ways to not only survive but also to profit as much as possible from what is to come.

And I agree on the nonsensical idea, story-wise, of an indoctrinated T.I.M. I think he's very much a man of his own mind, and very clearly knows what he wants to achieve.

I being a Cerberus supporter and keeping the base, wouldn't be too surprised if Shep has to Kill TIM at some point due his fear of Shep either taking over Cerberus or stopping him. Is TIM hunting all Sheps at the start of ME 3? if so, then maybe the Collector Base will be Sheps "Star Forge"--- (Kotor) and this leads you on the path where Shep not only takes over Cerberus but also has the tech to take the galaxy? (like a fallout ending montage where all your choices from 1-3 define the finishing story).

In which case I will clarify my earlier comment.

I see no issue with being pro Cerberus, provided that one understands exactly what Cerberus genuinely represents and accepts that doing so is an extra curricular choice and purely for the pleasure of indulging in some additional personal role playing.

Where it becomes a little silly is when they are blindly seen as 'good' guys from what is a very superficial standpoint, and/or that making certain game choices actually awards you with some sort of etheric Cerberus 'membership' in some way.  That or the belief that being a Renegade (which I've done) clearly means that they're your best mates and that you can probably expect a friendly hair tussling from T.I.M. every once in a while... [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/andy.png[/smilie]

Anyway, that aside, you make a very interesting point about the base. Renegade Shepard killing T.I.M. and somehow taking over Cerberus, with all the Renegadey options that opens up, is an extremely intriguing idea. I think I'd like to see that happen...

Modifié par Moirai, 26 avril 2011 - 01:10 .

[ExtremeOne]

If EA's Casey Hudson showed up at My house. I would have a very respectful and nice talk with him. I am passionate about things such as being a renegade player in the Mass Effect games . As well a passionate Cerberus supporter. I would rather work with TIM who cares about humanity's future than to work with a group that all it wants is peace with the galaxy. Do you honestly think that Turians and krogans would not turn on us if it was in their own best interest or it meant their long term survival.Of course they would do what ever it took to survive. The Batarians they torture and use other aliens for slaves and hate us humans . The Salarians had no problem in using a nuclear bomb to end Saren's plans on Virmire. Plus the Salarians and Turians created the genophage to keep the krogans down . Yet all I hear about is the bad Cerberus did in ME 1 . The Mass Effect Galaxy is full of alien races doing evil things. But oh thats right Shepard is on trial for killing 3000, 000 + batarians in order to save humanity from a early reaper invasion . That just shows me the alliance does not care about Earth or humanity.

[M-Sinistrari]

ExtremeOne wrote...

If EA's Casey Hudson showed up at My house. I would have a very respectful and nice talk with him. I am passionate about things such as being a renegade player in the Mass Effect games . As well a passionate Cerberus supporter. I would rather work with TIM who cares about humanity's future than to work with a group that all it wants is peace with the galaxy. Do you honestly think that Turians and krogans would not turn on us if it was in their own best interest or it meant their long term survival.Of course they would do what ever it took to survive. The Batarians they torture and use other aliens for slaves and hate us humans . The Salarians had no problem in using a nuclear bomb to end Saren's plans on Virmire. Plus the Salarians and Turians created the genophage to keep the krogans down . Yet all I hear about is the bad Cerberus did in ME 1 . The Mass Effect Galaxy is full of alien races doing evil things. But oh thats right Shepard is on trial for killing 3000, 000 + batarians in order to save humanity from a early reaper invasion . That just shows me the alliance does not care about Earth or humanity.

So, you ever going to answer my question about your opinion of Cerberus and the Alliance as presented in ME1 without refering to ME2 events?

[ExtremeOne]

M-Sinistrari wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

If EA's Casey Hudson showed up at My house. I would have a very respectful and nice talk with him. I am passionate about things such as being a renegade player in the Mass Effect games . As well a passionate Cerberus supporter. I would rather work with TIM who cares about humanity's future than to work with a group that all it wants is peace with the galaxy. Do you honestly think that Turians and krogans would not turn on us if it was in their own best interest or it meant their long term survival.Of course they would do what ever it took to survive. The Batarians they torture and use other aliens for slaves and hate us humans . The Salarians had no problem in using a nuclear bomb to end Saren's plans on Virmire. Plus the Salarians and Turians created the genophage to keep the krogans down . Yet all I hear about is the bad Cerberus did in ME 1 . The Mass Effect Galaxy is full of alien races doing evil things. But oh thats right Shepard is on trial for killing 3000, 000 + batarians in order to save humanity from a early reaper invasion . That just shows me the alliance does not care about Earth or humanity.

So, you ever going to answer my question about your opinion of Cerberus and the Alliance as presented in ME1 without refering to ME2 events?   

 











My persoanl view on Cerberus 
I like that it is ruthless and will do what ever it takes to get the job done. One other thing I like is that all of  the cells do not answer to anyone but that cell's commanding officer.  The best thing is it has one sole leader in The Illusive Man.  I do not like the experiements they did on humans.  As far as experiements on aliens go I have no issue with that .  I am the type that likes to do something about a problem instead of filling out reports .  Me and Cerberus both share one thing. That is a pro human stance when it comes to the galaxy in Mass Effect.  I have always been pro human even before I played the Mass Effect games.  When it comes to the aliens topic.   I do not hate aliens .  

[M-Sinistrari]

ExtremeOne wrote..


My persoanl view on Cerberus 
I like that it is ruthless and will do what ever it takes to get the job done. One other thing I like is that all of  the cells do not answer to anyone but that cell's commanding officer.  The best thing is it has one sole leader in The Illusive Man.  I do not like the experiements they did on humans.  As far as experiements on aliens go I have no issue with that .  I am the type that likes to do something about a problem instead of filling out reports .  Me and Cerberus both share one thing. That is a pro human stance when it comes to the galaxy in Mass Effect.  I have always been pro human even before I played the Mass Effect games.  When it comes to the aliens topic.   I do not hate aliens .  

You haven't answered the question as asked.  I asked for your view of Cerberus and the Alliance as they are in ME1 without referencing ME2.  You've not managed that, in fact I'm pretty convinced at this point that you're clinging desperately hard to your imperfect interpretation of Cerberus since you've likely posted publically about it before you got around to playing ME1 and seeing that they really weren't such a great thing.  Rather than admit that you misinterpreted, you'll just keep on with the same old rhetoric and coming across as either a rather unskilled troll or incapable of comprehending any view outside  your narrow perspective.

You have my pity.

[88mphSlayer]

i didn't think what Cerberus was doing in the first game was any worse than Exo Geni or those guys at the Peak 15 facility on Noveria... i remember the first time i played Mass Effect and ran into Cerberus, i was more shocked at the Admiral getting abducted than Cerberus trying to use Rachni or Thorean Creeper husks or Thresher Maws as weapons... it was entirely fashionable in the first game, everybody was doing it so i just assumed it was the norm

[ExtremeOne]

M-Sinistrari wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote..


My persoanl view on Cerberus 
I like that it is ruthless and will do what ever it takes to get the job done. One other thing I like is that all of  the cells do not answer to anyone but that cell's commanding officer.  The best thing is it has one sole leader in The Illusive Man.  I do not like the experiements they did on humans.  As far as experiements on aliens go I have no issue with that .  I am the type that likes to do something about a problem instead of filling out reports .  Me and Cerberus both share one thing. That is a pro human stance when it comes to the galaxy in Mass Effect.  I have always been pro human even before I played the Mass Effect games.  When it comes to the aliens topic.   I do not hate aliens .  

You haven't answered the question as asked.  I asked for your view of Cerberus and the Alliance as they are in ME1 without referencing ME2.  You've not managed that, in fact I'm pretty convinced at this point that you're clinging desperately hard to your imperfect interpretation of Cerberus since you've likely posted publically about it before you got around to playing ME1 and seeing that they really weren't such a great thing.  Rather than admit that you misinterpreted, you'll just keep on with the same old rhetoric and coming across as either a rather unskilled troll or incapable of comprehending any view outside  your narrow perspective.

You have my pity.

  



























Well My View on Cerberus and The Alliance from Mass Effect 1 is simple . Cerberus was a part of the Alliance at some point in Mass Effect 1 . So any actions that Cerberus took reflects back on the alliance .  Was Cerberus a enemy in 1. No not in my mind that was Saren and the reapers . As I said I have no issue with Cerberus experiementing on aliens.  My view on the alliance in ME 1 . Its a group that cared more about doing the bidding of the alien council . The alliance took up the council's idea of the reapers are a myth. I murdered the council for the sole reason they did not believe inwhat My Shepard weas talking about.  I hate what the alliance did in grounding the Normandy in ME 1 .  

[Last Vizard]

Moirai wrote...

Agreed. The Reapers are without doubt a threat to Cerberus, not only directly, like most people, but also indirectly with regards to their 'business' interests. I think that T.I.M. will be looking for ways to not only survive but also to profit as much as possible from what is to come.

And I agree on the nonsensical idea, story-wise, of an indoctrinated T.I.M. I think he's very much a man of his own mind, and very clearly knows what he wants to achieve.

I see no issue with being pro Cerberus, provided that one understands exactly what Cerberus genuinely represents and accepts that doing so is an extra curricular choice and purely for the pleasure of indulging in some additional personal role playing.

Where it becomes a little silly is when they are blindly seen as 'good' guys from what is a very superficial standpoint, and/or that making certain game choices actually awards you with some sort of etheric Cerberus 'membership' in some way.  That or the belief that being a Renegade (which I've done) clearly means that they're your best mates and that you can probably expect a friendly hair tussling from T.I.M. every once in a while...

Anyway, that aside, you make a very interesting point about the base. Renegade Shepard killing T.I.M. and somehow taking over Cerberus, with all the Renegadey options that opens up, is an extremely intriguing idea. I think I'd like to see that happen...

Yes we can only hope, i lol'd at the "best mates and that you can probably expect a friendly hair tussling from T.I.M. every once in a while... "       ---- go to 0.47 this made me laugh awhile back but your statement made me picture TIM and Shep trying/picking up chicks on Omega lol

About the whole taking over Cerberus, i think my idea is unlikely because its almost too good to be true but then again BW has made some good RPGs before so maybe.   EA, well they like money like everyone else (thought i'd take this closer to topic) the company has some really bad games like the latest command and conquer but i think they might redeem themselves with Deadspace 1 - 2 and the third one they must be working on.

[Moirai]

Last Vizard wrote...

     ---- go to 0.47 this made me laugh awhile back but your statement made me picture TIM and Shep trying/picking up chicks on Omega lol

pmsl! That was hilarious. I see what you mean... [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]