541 réponses à ce sujet

[ExtremeOne]

Saaziel wrote...

Renegade have some legitimate grievances , in my opinion.

But Cerberus turning on a "Saved base" ending isn't one of them. Cerberus doesn't equate Renegade. I use to , and still consider myself to , be a Renegade player . In ME1; That meant that i gave the finger to any authority figure i met. In ME2, it turns out that TIM is the authority figure, so giving him the finger has me flagged as Paragon apparently.

What happen is that the series got into a little role reversal. And if you played consistently , you wouldn't have noticed anything. If however , TIM said "Jump" and you said "Off what cliff ?" , you simply mistaken the value of the symbols for what they're meant to represent.

We never get what we want, because people want the impossible. So i'd suggest the Cerberus sympathizers stops wanting so much, it leads to nothing but disappointments.

  





Thats fine so Bioware can just go around and f**king hand Liara and Ashley & Kaiden fans everything they demand and ask for. But these same clowns can not give us Cerberus fans anything, Thats bull sh*T.   

[Dante Angelo]

ExtremeOne wrote...

Thats fine so Bioware can just go around and f**king hand Liara and Ashley & Kaiden fans everything they demand and ask for. But these same clowns can not give us Cerberus fans anything, Thats bull sh*T.   

What does that have to do with anything. Wait are you one those people that are mad because Miranda hasn't been confirmed as a companion or something?

[nelly21]

Seboist wrote...

1.  Yes, seeing the council is a "treat". This is game that's supposedly about player choice and i'd like to see the consequences of my actions,which includes seeing the human led council that's in power because my of actions.

2.  Renegades get accused of scheming to put humanity on a power trip by sacrificing the council, it's only fair that humans would accuse Shepard of being an alien stooge for sacrificing Alliance ships.

3. I wasn't refering to the Rachni queen at all but the "minor" cameos who have plenty of replacements, such as:

Killed Shiala? Have Liz Baynham or her mother show up.

Killed Rana Thanoptis? Have one of Kirahee's men show up.

Gianna Parasinni died? Have Maeko Matsuo show up.

etc,etc

1. You do see the consequenses of your actions. The galaxy hates you.

2. Isn't that specifically what al-Jalani insinuates when she interviews Shep? Right before you deck her or (even more delicious to my renegade Sheps) verbally **** slap her on her own show.

3. Shiala is an asari. It makes sense that they would send an asari to deal with another asari who clearly despises humans.

Why would any of Kirrahee's men be helping a Krogan warlord clone a perfect Krogan?

What the hell would a security guard be doing an investigation for? She head of security in Port Hanshan. Part of that job description is being at Port Hanshan.

[MajesticJazz]

nelly21 wrote...

MajesticJazz wrote...

[To add to your list:

4. If you chose Udina to be on the council in ME1, he appears in ME2 with his SAME uniform from ME1 but yet if you chose Anderson to be on the council, he appears in his new counsular wardrobe.

My point is why did Bioware give Anderson a consular uniform for Consular Anderson, but did not do the same for Consular Udina.

For my playthrough in which Udina was the consular, it was sort of a break in immersion.

It might not mean anything to you but please do not act like because it is irrelevant for you then it is by default irrelevant for everyone else.

Oh my God!!!!

I never noticed that!!! You're right! Clearly BioWare DESPISES renegades!!!

Udina is wearing a suit. The mayor of my city wears the same suit as any politician in Washington or the U.N. What is your point?

[ExtremeOne]

MajesticJazz wrote...

nelly21 wrote...

MajesticJazz wrote...

[To add to your list:

4. If you chose Udina to be on the council in ME1, he appears in ME2 with his SAME uniform from ME1 but yet if you chose Anderson to be on the council, he appears in his new counsular wardrobe.

My point is why did Bioware give Anderson a consular uniform for Consular Anderson, but did not do the same for Consular Udina.

For my playthrough in which Udina was the consular, it was sort of a break in immersion.

It might not mean anything to you but please do not act like because it is irrelevant for you then it is by default irrelevant for everyone else.

Oh my God!!!!

I never noticed that!!! You're right! Clearly BioWare DESPISES renegades!!!

Udina is wearing a suit. The mayor of my city wears the same suit as any politician in Washington or the U.N. What is your point?

   




Lets just say Bioware clearly cares about paragons and Anti Cerberus fans. So be it Bioware your pathetic idea of a paragon and renegade choice and those choices would mean something is a joke. 

[nelly21]

MajesticJazz wrote...

My point is why did Bioware give Anderson a consular uniform for Consular Anderson, but did not do the same for Consular Udina.

For my playthrough in which Udina was the consular, it was sort of a break in immersion.

There aren't any consular uniforms. They wear fancy traditional clothing. The same way politicians do. Politicians wear suits. When somebody is elected president, do they dress differently than when they were senators? No. Anderson got the new threads because it wouldn't look very diplomatic for humanity's representative to be dressed in MILITARY uniform.

It might not mean anything to you but please do not act like because it is irrelevant for you then it is by default irrelevant for everyone else.

Hi Pot! My name's Kettle!

Modifié par nelly21, 20 avril 2011 - 10:08 .

[Seboist]

nelly21 wrote...

Seboist wrote...

1.  Yes, seeing the council is a "treat". This is game that's supposedly about player choice and i'd like to see the consequences of my actions,which includes seeing the human led council that's in power because my of actions.

2.  Renegades get accused of scheming to put humanity on a power trip by sacrificing the council, it's only fair that humans would accuse Shepard of being an alien stooge for sacrificing Alliance ships.

3. I wasn't refering to the Rachni queen at all but the "minor" cameos who have plenty of replacements, such as:

Killed Shiala? Have Liz Baynham or her mother show up.

Killed Rana Thanoptis? Have one of Kirahee's men show up.

Gianna Parasinni died? Have Maeko Matsuo show up.

etc,etc

1. You do see the consequenses of your actions. The galaxy hates you.

2. Isn't that specifically what al-Jalani insinuates when she interviews Shep? Right before you deck her or (even more delicious to my renegade Sheps) verbally **** slap her on her own show.

3. Shiala is an asari. It makes sense that they would send an asari to deal with another asari who clearly despises humans.

Why would any of Kirrahee's men be helping a Krogan warlord clone a perfect Krogan?

What the hell would a security guard be doing an investigation for? She head of security in Port Hanshan. Part of that job description is being at Port Hanshan.

1. So, it's perfectly fine for aliens to assume i'm a human supremacist without any evidence but a relative of a human sailor who died on a ship trying to save the council can't be suspicious about Shepard's motivations? Oh Okay.

2 Al-Jalani picks fights with Shepard regardless. It's another "false outcome" like with the fate of the Rachni queen with the Turian Councilor.

3. You'd have a point, if Shiala didn't get replaced by a generic Feros colonist for when she dies. Another example of a Paragon bias. They get a meaningful cameo and we get some generic character.

About the whole Kirahee thing, It would be a STG Salarian sent in to investigate what Okeer is up to. Which ties in with the whole Virmire mission of a Krogan scientist working on a genophage cure.

[ExtremeOne]

Dante Angelo wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

Thats fine so Bioware can just go around and f**king hand Liara and Ashley & Kaiden fans everything they demand and ask for. But these same clowns can not give us Cerberus fans anything, Thats bull sh*T.   

What does that have to do with anything. Wait are you one those people that are mad because Miranda hasn't been confirmed as a companion or something?

  





Yeah now that you mentioned it why isn't there any word on Miranda being in ME 3.  Oh that is one other thing Bioware has some explaining to do about it.  What about Grunt and Thane being in 3.   Yeah that is one thing I am pissed about  

[Dante Angelo]

ExtremeOne wrote...

Dante Angelo wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

Thats fine so Bioware can just go around and f**king hand Liara and Ashley & Kaiden fans everything they demand and ask for. But these same clowns can not give us Cerberus fans anything, Thats bull sh*T.   

What does that have to do with anything. Wait are you one those people that are mad because Miranda hasn't been confirmed as a companion or something?

  





Yeah now that you mentioned it why isn't there any word on Miranda being in ME 3.  Oh that is one other thing Bioware has some explaining to do about it.  What about Grunt and Thane being in 3.   Yeah that is one thing I am pissed about  

Grunt is back on Tuchanka and Thane might be dead

[Kusy]

-I hate this even tho I know next nothing about it.
-You are wrong and I can prove it even tho I know next to nothing about it too.
-Oh no mate, he's right and I can see it because I also know next to nothing about it

cool discussion.

Modifié par Mr.Kusy, 20 avril 2011 - 10:22 .

[Saberchic]

Wow. This topic seems to have gotten way off topic. But I'd like to just give some food for thought to the OP.
At first, I couldn't figure out why Cerberus would be after Shep either. I thought that maybe TIM thought Shep would be a security risk or what-not, so he'd hunt Shep down and take them out before anything could happen. but I still wasn't convinced.

I was talking to my friend about this, and he came to me with some good theories as to why Cerberus would turn on Shep.

1) TIM is and has been indoctrinated the whole time. My friend pointed out that the Collectors wanted to get their hands on Shep in ME2 and before then (his dead body), and so did TIM (mission accomplished with the help of Liara). Perhaps they planned on using Shep somehow, who knows. Now that Shep has returned and has dealt the Reapers a blow if Shep blew up the base, they want Shep dead, so now TIM does too. He's been acting on their orders the whole time.

But what if Shep didn't blow up the base?
2) Shep hands over the base, and TIM gets indoctrinated then. The Reapers are pissed at Shep for destroying their human Reaper and see him now as an uncontrollable threat. TIM, now indoctrinated, turns on Shep as he is controlled by the Reapers.

I thought my friend's theories were pretty good. Either choice you made in ME2 would only really require some minor dialogue changes in the beginning of the story to explain these situations. How the story expands from there... who knows.

I thought my friend's theories seemed pretty spot on and thought I'd share. I don't think Bioware is purposefully punishing renegades.

[Last Vizard]

I'm with you, when i first heard about ME my first thought was "how many games are they going to make and how difficult it will be to keep track of all the choices" then i played ME 2.... "oh, they aren't"

[MajesticJazz]

nelly21 wrote...

MajesticJazz wrote...

My point is why did Bioware give Anderson a consular uniform for Consular Anderson, but did not do the same for Consular Udina.

For my playthrough in which Udina was the consular, it was sort of a break in immersion.

There aren't any consular uniforms. They wear fancy traditional clothing. The same way politicians do. Politicians wear suits. When somebody is elected president, do they dress differently than when they were senators? No. Anderson got the new threads because it wouldn't look very diplomatic for humanity's representative to be dressed in MILITARY uniform.

It might not mean anything to you but please do not act like because it is irrelevant for you then it is by default irrelevant for everyone else.

Hi Pot! My name's Kettle!

Okay let me break this down for you because obviously you need to be talked to like a 1st Grader:

If you chose Anderson to be on the Council, he'll appear in ME2 wearing a different uniform featuring the same navy, red, and white colors like the Turian/Salarian/Asari members wear.

This is a pic of the council from the end of ME1: Notice how they all have the colors of dark navy and red as the theme to their clothes





Now here is a photo of Anderson in ME2 wearing his Human Consular Uniform in which features dark navy and red:







Now compare that to his System's Alliance Admiral Uniform:



As you can see, Bioware took the time to make a visual reference to Anderson being on the council vs not being on the council. However, for Udina, they did not do this. 

[nelly21]

@ Seboist

Thank frikin' God you aren't a writer on this franchise.

1. Aliens have always been mistrustful of humans. It's one of the themes of ME 1. I already explained why humanity would be mostly supportive. And al-Jalani proves that there's a percentage (however small) who do mistrust Shepard.

2. Awesome. Create a "term" like "dumbing down" and use it to explain your argument. What would a "real" outcome have been? The rachni queen is dead. The Council acknowledges it. You move on with the mission.

3. BECAUSE WE KILLED SHIALA!!! Which doesn't matter anyway since if you were a renegade the colony went to sh**.

Really? One single STG is dropped in the middle of a Blue Suns training world outside of Council space? That is good writing to you?

[ExtremeOne]

Saberchic wrote...

Wow. This topic seems to have gotten way off topic. But I'd like to just give some food for thought to the OP.
At first, I couldn't figure out why Cerberus would be after Shep either. I thought that maybe TIM thought Shep would be a security risk or what-not, so he'd hunt Shep down and take them out before anything could happen. but I still wasn't convinced.

I was talking to my friend about this, and he came to me with some good theories as to why Cerberus would turn on Shep.

1) TIM is and has been indoctrinated the whole time. My friend pointed out that the Collectors wanted to get their hands on Shep in ME2 and before then (his dead body), and so did TIM (mission accomplished with the help of Liara). Perhaps they planned on using Shep somehow, who knows. Now that Shep has returned and has dealt the Reapers a blow if Shep blew up the base, they want Shep dead, so now TIM does too. He's been acting on their orders the whole time.

But what if Shep didn't blow up the base?
2) Shep hands over the base, and TIM gets indoctrinated then. The Reapers are pissed at Shep for destroying their human Reaper and see him now as an uncontrollable threat. TIM, now indoctrinated, turns on Shep as he is controlled by the Reapers.

I thought my friend's theories were pretty good. Either choice you made in ME2 would only really require some minor dialogue changes in the beginning of the story to explain these situations. How the story expands from there... who knows.

I thought my friend's theories seemed pretty spot on and thought I'd share. I don't think Bioware is purposefully punishing renegades.

   




They are punishing renegade players like myself who like Cerberus. But thats ok it will make being a total and utter ass and renegade to the Alliance in 3 Oh so sweet. 

[ExtremeOne]

Last Vizard wrote...

I'm with you, when i first heard about ME my first thought was "how many games are they going to make and how difficult it will be to keep track of all the choices" then i played ME 2.... "oh, they aren't"

  



Its clear even they are keeping track of them . It really does not matter what choices we make. Its sad that while our choices do not matter or mean anything. That Bioware would give Liara fans a big fat make up letter with LOTSB dlc. Oh and the admiral hacket fans got their wishe with the arrival dlc. Bioware only care about certain fans and not all of its fans when it comes to Mass Effect. 

[jeweledleah]

@ MagesticJazz - your argument would have some leg behind it except.... Turian, asari and human outfits at least (I need to double check salarian outfit, but as far as I can remember only ME1 salarians are seen wearing robes) are generic civilian clothes seen on generic npc's in Citadel AND Omega. they are not special Council Uniforms. Anderson got a new outfit, because he needed civilian clothes. Udina already had them. lastly - picking Anderson vs Udina is not paragon/renegade decision, unlike deciding on whether council lives or dies.

edited to add - not all renegade players are Cerberus supporters.  Not all paragon players destroy the base.

as for being a Cerberus fan, I'm sorry, but you are in a same boat as Saren fans.

form the VERY FIRST GAME  Cerbereus were bad guys. you are given cosntant hints in a second game that its a ruthless, unscrupulous organization that will step over countless bodies as long as it advances their goals.  Despite Jacob claiming that things have changed?  you are shown again and again that things haven't actualy changed.

you are a fan of the villian and its ok, just don't expect a villian to become a good guy, just becasue you are a fan

Modifié par jeweledleah, 20 avril 2011 - 10:44 .

[nelly21]

@ Majestic

I understand what you were refering to. Now please. Stop. Breathe and read my next comment carefully.

- There is no Consular uniform. The Council wears dress attire from their individual races.
- Anderson wears a military uniform.
- When Anderson is accepted in the Council, he is no longer a military man. Therefore, he wears dress attire.

You understand this much, right? OK. Moving on.

- There is no Consular uniform. The Council wears dress attire from their individual races.
- Udina wears dress attire because he is a politician.
- When Udina is accepted, he does not change his attire because he was already a politician. His clothing requirements do not change.

Edit:

Also, Majestic, does Anderson's uniform really look red to you? Furthermore, you pick the two common colors and ignore the yellow on the salarian, the white on the asari, the burgundy on the turian, etc. Are we admitting cherry-picking into evidence now? How can I defend myself against this kind of argument?

Modifié par nelly21, 20 avril 2011 - 10:54 .

[ROF_Inferno]

Guys, especially OP the real thing is you dont own bioware they can do what they want whether u like it or not but b4 u shoot out claims for false advertising u have to PLAY the game since ME3 aint basically available till next year you gota long long wait save the accustaions till the games out and you finish it. then if something dont make sense or it really appears bioware failed to give you a choice then start a thread like this

Modifié par ROF_Inferno, 20 avril 2011 - 10:52 .

[ROF_Inferno]

ExtremeOne wrote...

Dante Angelo wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

Thats fine so Bioware can just go around and f**king hand Liara and Ashley & Kaiden fans everything they demand and ask for. But these same clowns can not give us Cerberus fans anything, Thats bull sh*T.   

What does that have to do with anything. Wait are you one those people that are mad because Miranda hasn't been confirmed as a companion or something?

  

Yeah now that you mentioned it why isn't there any word on Miranda being in ME 3.  Oh that is one other thing Bioware has some explaining to do about it.  What about Grunt and Thane being in 3.   Yeah that is one thing I am pissed about  

READ the GI article they are all IN ME3 thery just might not be in your
permanent roster. The article says only character that were most loved
would return, the rest would be there but not be perm squadmembers  to
make room for new ones. oTherwise youd have a squad of over 16 members
if 4 new guys were added

Modifié par ROF_Inferno, 20 avril 2011 - 10:56 .

[MajesticJazz]

nelly21 wrote...

@ Majestic

I understand what you were refering to. Now please. Stop. Breathe and read my next comment carefully.

- There is no Consular uniform. The Council wears dress attire from their individual races.
- Anderson wears a military uniform.
- When Anderson is accepted in the Council, he is no longer a military man. Therefore, he wears dress attire.

You understand this much, right? OK. Moving on.

- There is no Consular uniform. The Council wears dress attire from their individual races.
- Udina wears dress attire because he is a politician.
- When Udina is accepted, he does not change his attire because he was already a politician. His clothing requirements do not change.

Edit:

Also, Majestic, does Anderson's uniform really look red to you? Furthermore, you pick the two common colors and ignore the yellow on the salarian, the white on the asari, the burgundy on the turian, etc. Are we admitting cherry-picking into evidence now? How can I defend myself against this kind of argument?

I think you're looking at it from an extreme literal perspective.

When I mean uniform I do not mean one unique uniform that ONLY people on the council wears. No, I mean attire the makes a symbolic/visual reference to being on the council.

Bioware wanted to highlight the notion that Anderson is a political diplomat now and that he is on the council ALL of the 3 Council members wears attire that all has the same color scheme.....dark navy and red. Anderson's council attire also has this same color scheme. So this is Bioware trying to connect Anderson with the council.

However with Udina, he is wearing his same old all white/sky blue colors from ME1 as if nothing ever happened.

[Last Vizard]

ExtremeOne wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

I'm with you, when i first heard about ME my first thought was "how many games are they going to make and how difficult it will be to keep track of all the choices" then i played ME 2.... "oh, they aren't"

  



Its clear even they are keeping track of them . It really does not matter what choices we make. Its sad that while our choices do not matter or mean anything. That Bioware would give Liara fans a big fat make up letter with LOTSB dlc. Oh and the admiral hacket fans got their wishe with the arrival dlc. Bioware only care about certain fans and not all of its fans when it comes to Mass Effect. 

yeah, through the choices i've made which are both para and rene i don't see any way TIM would turn on me, but some hippies get to hold hand with Hacket in ME 3.

[MajesticJazz]

ROF_Inferno wrote...

Guys, especially OP the real thing is you dont own bioware they can do what they want whether u like it or not but b4 u shoot out claims for false advertising u have to PLAY the game since ME3 aint basically available till next year you gota long long wait save the accustaions till the games out and you finish it. then if something dont make sense or it really appears bioware failed to give you a choice then start a thread like this

I find it funny how we can have threads about people claiming ME3 to be a great game and how they cannot wait to play it because it is looking like it is shaping up to be a great game. They haven't played it and the only info they got is info from GI but yet they are already saying that it is a must buy and so on.

HOWEVER,

When someone creates threads/makes replies about how they believe ME3 is shaping up to be going in the wrong direction and that they will be hestitant in buying the game, people claim these people to be complainers and that they should "Wait for the game to come out before you judge it because all you have is info from the GI article and we don't know the full story yet" 

So if you pre-judge the game to be good then everything is fine. However if you pre-judge the game to be bad then you are wrong.....

[ExtremeOne]

[quote]ROF_Inferno wrote...

Guys, especially OP the real thing is you dont own bioware they can do what they want whether u like it or not but b4 u shoot out claims for false advertising u have to PLAY the game since ME3 aint basically available till next year you gota long long wait save the accustaions till the games out and you finish it. then if something dont make sense or it really appears bioware failed to give you a choice then start a thread like this[/quote   





You know what its real clear Bioware shows support to Liara , Ashley and Kaiden as well Hacket fans Plus the anti Cerberus fans. But god forbid Cerberus and The Illuive Man have fans.  Yeah Bioware you claim you listen to your fans bull sh*t. They just happen to listen to the ones they chose to .  so yeah I have issues with Bioware