541 réponses à ce sujet

[AdmiralCheez]

Problem is, Seboist, all those choices you mentioned? All the effects were largely focused on stuff just in that game.

Additionally, ME3 shaping up to be DAO on steroids in space anyway.

[Savber100]

*shrugs*

ME3 will the culmination of choices made in ME and ME2. i always saw ME and ME2 as the choices that sets up for the big consequential finale of ME3. If ME3 ignore ALL the choices I made in the previous game like saving the Council, destroying the Collector's Base, obtaining the genophage, advising against the Quarian v Geth War THEN I'll start ****ing. But not until then.... Why the hell are we assuming that our choices don't matter when the conclusion hasn't even arrived yet? That's like saying that Frodo obtaining the ring doesn't matter since we didn't see a resolution in TT before we read ROTK.

[jeweledleah]

Seboist wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

oh no. choices do matter. you just have limited choices and the choice you want to make, just doesn't exist in a game.

choices matter = /= you can make any choice you want and have it show up in game.

Let's compare the "choices" of ME1/2 to DA:O shall we?

In DA:O,

1. I can allign myself with either Werewolf or Elves and then proceed to wipe out the side I went against. This results in werewolf melee fighters or elven archers assisting me int he final battle.

2. I can choose whether to kill a person who's posessed by a demon or enter his dream and kill it. The later being an actual gameplay segment.

3. I can choose to save a villiage that's under attack or proceed to the main objective and ignore it.

DA:O:A

1. I can choose to go save a city or my base of operations. Both are two different playable segments.

2. I can fight or ally myself with a creature who was behind the friggin fifth blight and he provides assistance in the last boss fight.

This is contrast to ME2 where we get........ cameos and e-mails for our "choices" from ME1. Quite a disparity there.

lets compare apples to apples instead of apples to oranges.  what do you get when you go from origins/awakenings to DA2?  cameos and slightly different dialogue from your cameos depending on the choices.

choices you made in ME1 that had direct consequences?  did have them. long reaching consequences?  we haven't hada  chance to see them yet, as we haven't seen the last part of the trilogy.  jut like we're not going to see the consequences form choice in DAO and DA2 as anything more then cameos/epilogues... untill the last instalment.

[Seboist]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Problem is, Seboist, all those choices you mentioned? All the effects were largely focused on stuff just in that game.

Additionally, ME3 shaping up to be DAO on steroids in space anyway.

I really hope that's the case 'cause BW's track record with the past two games and not giving us the diginity of choosing to work for Cerberus doesn't seem too promising thus far.

Now, if they gave me a Vorcha squadmate in exchange for fighting Cerberus, then I MIGHT just forgive them.

[Seboist]

jeweledleah wrote...

Seboist wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

oh no. choices do matter. you just have limited choices and the choice you want to make, just doesn't exist in a game.

choices matter = /= you can make any choice you want and have it show up in game.

Let's compare the "choices" of ME1/2 to DA:O shall we?

In DA:O,

1. I can allign myself with either Werewolf or Elves and then proceed to wipe out the side I went against. This results in werewolf melee fighters or elven archers assisting me int he final battle.

2. I can choose whether to kill a person who's posessed by a demon or enter his dream and kill it. The later being an actual gameplay segment.

3. I can choose to save a villiage that's under attack or proceed to the main objective and ignore it.

DA:O:A

1. I can choose to go save a city or my base of operations. Both are two different playable segments.

2. I can fight or ally myself with a creature who was behind the friggin fifth blight and he provides assistance in the last boss fight.

This is contrast to ME2 where we get........ cameos and e-mails for our "choices" from ME1. Quite a disparity there.

lets compare apples to apples instead of apples to oranges.  what do you get when you go from origins/awakenings to DA2?  cameos and slightly different dialogue from your cameos depending on the choices.

choices you made in ME1 that had direct consequences?  did have them. long reaching consequences?  we haven't hada  chance to see them yet, as we haven't seen the last part of the trilogy.  jut like we're not going to see the consequences form choice in DAO and DA2 as anything more then cameos/epilogues... untill the last instalment.

Sadly DA:O couldn't have had much impact on DA2 since it focuses on a completely different character and setting.

When it comes to ME1, the ONLY differing content based on choice is the side missions involing Lord Darius and the other hostage one..........both of which I didn't even know existed despite several playthroughs.

I flat out disagree with the notion that ME2 couldn't have had much alteration without screwing up ME3. There could have been minor missions like going after Balak if Shep let him go in ME1.

[Last Vizard]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Seboist wrote...

You're giving them far too much credit. What people are upset about is that this trilogy was sold on player choices and imported saves only to find out the changes are purely cosmetic.

I thought the Wrex thing was a pretty big one.  I mean, hell, competely different political environment for the krogan.  Best reunion scene in the game vs. worst NPC ever.  Hardly cosmetic, if you ask me.

ME1 for instance made it seems like the fate of council was a BIG choice with a BIG outcome and in the end....... it just wasn't. Even Spectre status and who you appoint as councilor is irrelevant.

Well, here's the thing--ME3 hasn't happened yet.

Yeah, the Council thing was underwhelming.  However, there were sublte changes brewing in the backround.  For example, the galaxy's opinions on humanity are quite different based on how the ending of ME1 played out.  What we saw may have very well been a teaser of sorts, a hint at what's to come.

The devs have said repeatedly that they couldn't branch off too much with ME2 because they needed a similar starting point for everyone for ME3.  However, they have promised that ME3 will be the culmination of everything we've done and chosen so far, and since there won't be a sequel to worry about, they have a lot more freedom to get funky with the plot.

Whether or not these are just promises remains to be seen.  However, I have a feeling ME3 will be a very interesting experience regardless.

As for the Collector Base, handing it to TIM never implied it would make him your bro4life.  He basically says, "good job, Shepard, now excuse me while I do what I want with it."

Compared to DA:O the "choices" in ME are downright underwhelming and looks like a JRPG in comparison.

Not really a fan of either, so I can't really make a valid comparison between them.

didn't you just prove that choice doesn't matter? its reset at the start of each game, council choice doesn't matter and the base choice won't matter either... and Cerberus Daily News shows that no matter what their is still the same amount of Turian distrust and the last post shows that the tensions between the Alliance and Turians are reducing, so its the same for everyone just slight tweeks for either.

[Last Vizard]

Savber100 wrote...

*shrugs*

ME3 will the culmination of choices made in ME and ME2. i always saw ME and ME2 as the choices that sets up for the big consequential finale of ME3. If ME3 ignore ALL the choices I made in the previous game like saving the Council, destroying the Collector's Base, obtaining the genophage, advising against the Quarian v Geth War THEN I'll start ****ing. But not until then.... Why the hell are we assuming that our choices don't matter when the conclusion hasn't even arrived yet? That's like saying that Frodo obtaining the ring doesn't matter since we didn't see a resolution in TT before we read ROTK.

The point is that when you start ME 2 your choices from ME 1 have little effect, i chose "let them die" so i expected things to be tense between Humans and the council but it seemed that nothing really changed at all.  The consumers are the ones who decide whats acceptable and what isn't, we are the ones that demand better story and if we say "well its not as good as i thought it would be but that doesn't matter" then story quality will drop.

When they say your choices from ME 1 and 2 matter then why will the beginning story of ME 3 be the same for everyone?

[AdmiralCheez]

Last Vizard wrote...

didn't you just prove that choice doesn't matter? its reset at the start of each game, council choice doesn't matter and the base choice won't matter either... and Cerberus Daily News shows that no matter what their is still the same amount of Turian distrust and the last post shows that the tensions between the Alliance and Turians are reducing, so its the same for everyone just slight tweeks for either.

No, I did not.  I never implied that the C-Base choice wouldn't matter, only that it wouldn't necessarily make TIM your friend.  I also was trying to say that a lot of what we've done won't really make a huge difference until ME3.

They are not going to write a seperate CDN for everybody.  Newscasts in-game, however, are often quite different.

[Last Vizard]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

didn't you just prove that choice doesn't matter? its reset at the start of each game, council choice doesn't matter and the base choice won't matter either... and Cerberus Daily News shows that no matter what their is still the same amount of Turian distrust and the last post shows that the tensions between the Alliance and Turians are reducing, so its the same for everyone just slight tweeks for either.

No, I did not.  I never implied that the C-Base choice wouldn't matter, only that it wouldn't necessarily make TIM your friend.  I also was trying to say that a lot of what we've done won't really make a huge difference until ME3.

They are not going to write a seperate CDN for everybody.  Newscasts in-game, however, are often quite different.

Yes they wouldn't write a seperate CDN for everybody because it would be more difficult, just like how they didn't make a completely different ME 2 experiance for the different choices in ME 1, the same will be true for ME 3 if TIM is aftter my pro-Cerberus Shep... wouldn't make any sense to come after him unless they are resetting the story for everyone in ME 3.

[M-Sinistrari]

LK Tien wrote...

Damn, one guy with a hard-on for Miranda has taken it this far...

Really, I wish I had his life since he's able to work up all this rant and snort up over a videogame.  I'd happily trade finals and ex husband grief to be able to get all knickers in a twist over nothing.

[Last Vizard]

M-Sinistrari wrote...

LK Tien wrote...

Damn, one guy with a hard-on for Miranda has taken it this far...

Really, I wish I had his life since he's able to work up all this rant and snort up over a videogame.  I'd happily trade finals and ex husband grief to be able to get all knickers in a twist over nothing.

This is a consumer issue not a poor judge of character or education issues thread

[Seboist]

M-Sinistrari wrote...

LK Tien wrote...

Damn, one guy with a hard-on for Miranda has taken it this far...

Really, I wish I had his life since he's able to work up all this rant and snort up over a videogame.  I'd happily trade finals and ex husband grief to be able to get all knickers in a twist over nothing.

The fate of humanity is at stake here missy! This is no laughing matter!

[M-Sinistrari]

Last Vizard wrote...


This is a consumer issue not a poor judge of character or education issues thread

Not sure if you caught my earlier post, but I did point out that in light of all that's been put out on info at the moment is the GI article.  Before that, we had a vague word of ME3 coming out this year or next year.  We have a many months long wait until the game's released and it's common sense that Bioware'll be dropping more bits of info as time goes on to keep building up the interest.

Going from what Bioware's said, since ME3's the last part of the Shep trilogy they're not bound by the constraints they were under in ME2 with keeping things divergent to a range where it'll all fit in proper for ME3.  So with that said, the smart thing to do is just wait and see.  We'll find out more as time goes on same as before.

For anyone to be worked up to throwing tantrums this early on is only making themselves look foolish.  Yes it would be nice for Bioware to tell us more, but they will when they deem it the time. 

And to be honest, on the scale of consumer matters, complaints about a storyline's handling is really minor compared to the serious ones such as being released on time, game potentially being cancelled despite having a release date, preorders going smoothly and that the game's not defective to the point of unplayability.  To gripe about storylines and/or characters status in game when they're specifically not releasing information at this time so to build more interest really doesn't fit on the scale of a consumer issue.

[commandoclone87]

People are complaining and the game isn't even out yet? Wow, so Bioware is starting off everyone at the trial in ME3. While giving us some choices, main plot points need to remain consistant across all playthroughs to ensure a story that makes sense. Otherwise it can take several years to script a game if they have to take every little decision into account.

What they are doing is things like letting the Rachni Queen live is going to give you a fleet to use in ME3, while re-writing the Geth may provide a plot twist in which the Reapers gain control of them and now you're facing a Geth armada in addition to the Reapers. You told the Quarians to go to war with the Geth and now you have neither.

Some of your decisions from ME1 and ME2 will have a big impact towards the end result of ME3. Others will have a more minor impact, but will still count as they will provide you with a different world from your friend's.

If you are going to complain about decisions not mattering, please wait until Bioware tells us. Then if you don't like it, you can troll to your heart's desire. Just give the Mass Effect team that chance to reveal what they have been working on since before ME2 was even released.

[AdmiralCheez]

Last Vizard wrote...

Yes they wouldn't write a seperate CDN for everybody because it would be more difficult, just like how they didn't make a completely different ME 2 experiance for the different choices in ME 1, the same will be true for ME 3 if TIM is aftter my pro-Cerberus Shep... wouldn't make any sense to come after him unless they are resetting the story for everyone in ME 3.

Your fault for thinking TIM would be your bro4life, man.  Bioware never said that you'd get the opportunity to side with Cerberus in ME3, and they hinted multiple times thay they weren't trustworthy.

Already foreshadowed, so no reset required.

[Last Vizard]

M-Sinistrari wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...


This is a consumer issue not a poor judge of character or education issues thread

Not sure if you caught my earlier post, but I did point out that in light of all that's been put out on info at the moment is the GI article.  Before that, we had a vague word of ME3 coming out this year or next year.  We have a many months long wait until the game's released and it's common sense that Bioware'll be dropping more bits of info as time goes on to keep building up the interest.

Going from what Bioware's said, since ME3's the last part of the Shep trilogy they're not bound by the constraints they were under in ME2 with keeping things divergent to a range where it'll all fit in proper for ME3.  So with that said, the smart thing to do is just wait and see.  We'll find out more as time goes on same as before.

For anyone to be worked up to throwing tantrums this early on is only making themselves look foolish.  Yes it would be nice for Bioware to tell us more, but they will when they deem it the time. 

And to be honest, on the scale of consumer matters, complaints about a storyline's handling is really minor compared to the serious ones such as being released on time, game potentially being cancelled despite having a release date, preorders going smoothly and that the game's not defective to the point of unplayability.  To gripe about storylines and/or characters status in game when they're specifically not releasing information at this time so to build more interest really doesn't fit on the scale of a consumer issue.

Yes, but i'm not concerned with what characters will be in ME 3, this thread is about issues with Bioware.  ME 2 was a good game if played out of context with choices made in ME 1, i would prefer BW said its too bloody hard to make your choices count so we'll follow a cannon and if your choices are different to mine (BW writter) then too bad, but way back in the days of ME 1 when they announced that it was going to be a trilogy and your choices matter.... well lady, i can't stand liars and if BW advertises that choice matters then they lied when it came to ME 2.

Easy to dismiss an opinion that is different to your own, isn't it?

[ExtremeOne]

commandoclone87 wrote...

People are complaining and the game isn't even out yet? Wow, so Bioware is starting off everyone at the trial in ME3. While giving us some choices, main plot points need to remain consistant across all playthroughs to ensure a story that makes sense. Otherwise it can take several years to script a game if they have to take every little decision into account.

What they are doing is things like letting the Rachni Queen live is going to give you a fleet to use in ME3, while re-writing the Geth may provide a plot twist in which the Reapers gain control of them and now you're facing a Geth armada in addition to the Reapers. You told the Quarians to go to war with the Geth and now you have neither.

Some of your decisions from ME1 and ME2 will have a big impact towards the end result of ME3. Others will have a more minor impact, but will still count as they will provide you with a different world from your friend's.

If you are going to complain about decisions not mattering, please wait until Bioware tells us. Then if you don't like it, you can troll to your heart's desire. Just give the Mass Effect team that chance to reveal what they have been working on since before ME2 was even released.

  




I am going to give them a chance to explain the info in GI article at E3. Its clear the Bioware defenders will defend them to the end. but I have issues with the Mass Effect stoyr and ideas in ME 3 that is what this thread is about .   

[Last Vizard]

commandoclone87 wrote...

People are complaining and the game isn't even out yet? Wow, so Bioware is starting off everyone at the trial in ME3. While giving us some choices, main plot points need to remain consistant across all playthroughs to ensure a story that makes sense. Otherwise it can take several years to script a game if they have to take every little decision into account.

What they are doing is things like letting the Rachni Queen live is going to give you a fleet to use in ME3, while re-writing the Geth may provide a plot twist in which the Reapers gain control of them and now you're facing a Geth armada in addition to the Reapers. You told the Quarians to go to war with the Geth and now you have neither.

Some of your decisions from ME1 and ME2 will have a big impact towards the end result of ME3. Others will have a more minor impact, but will still count as they will provide you with a different world from your friend's.

If you are going to complain about decisions not mattering, please wait until Bioware tells us. Then if you don't like it, you can troll to your heart's desire. Just give the Mass Effect team that chance to reveal what they have been working on since before ME2 was even released.

i'm sure you had the same post during the wait for ME 2, saying "wait till the game comes out becuase your choices like saving the council will effect ME 2". I hear what your saying but i'm the type of guy that calls people out before things turn to sh!t... the relationship between producers and consumers is that we try to screw each other over, if we stay quiet game quality drops however if they don't market correctly demand drops...

[Last Vizard]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

Yes they wouldn't write a seperate CDN for everybody because it would be more difficult, just like how they didn't make a completely different ME 2 experiance for the different choices in ME 1, the same will be true for ME 3 if TIM is aftter my pro-Cerberus Shep... wouldn't make any sense to come after him unless they are resetting the story for everyone in ME 3.

Your fault for thinking TIM would be your bro4life, man.  Bioware never said that you'd get the opportunity to side with Cerberus in ME3, and they hinted multiple times thay they weren't trustworthy.

Already foreshadowed, so no reset required.

So TIM would discard an asset he paid a full years worth of credits to bring back? did you notice any holes in story such as militaries switching to thermal clips or a Reaper throwing its life away at the end of ME1 when apparently they can get here just as easy with plan b?

I don't care if Cerberus betrays me because it just means there will be one more bad guy to bring down, what annoys me is the way the story seems to just do a back flip whenever BW feels like it. If TIM has turned on Shep its only so that ME 3 can be another Reset like ME 2 was and not to improve the story.

Edit: Yes i do know what the citadel is for but couldn't a Reeper fleet come from the edge of space this time and just jump from relay to relay and take the citadel by force then turn on the rest of the galaxy this time so Nazzara survives?  the plan was 2000 years behind anyway.

Modifié par Last Vizard, 21 avril 2011 - 06:28 .

[ExtremeOne]

Bioware is rebooting ME franchise with ME 3 plain and simple . and they are not being straight with us and its bull sh*t

[Nashiktal]

Rebooting? I see no reboot.

Rebooting is the new xcom game coming out.

[didymos1120]

ExtremeOne wrote...

Bioware is rebooting ME franchise with ME 3 plain and simple .

"Reboot" does not mean "Story elements I personally don't like are included".

[axmo1]

ExtremeOne wrote...

Bioware is rebooting ME franchise with ME 3 plain and simple . and they are not being straight with us and its bull sh*t

^Someone needs to write fanfic so that the story turns out the exact way they want.

As far as storytelling goes, like it's been stated at least 10-20 times so far, you're reading a preview and proclaiming doom.  Just because something doesn't make sense to you doesn't mean it is senseless to others, as is the case in any story. Especially if you have no clue whatsoever what the causes and reactions will be.

Also, as far as the choices you make, I think you severely overestimate the impact shepard can have (which is still pretty big). This isn't the sims, Shepard can't just control the whole world around him/her with his choices. If it was TIM's plan all along to betray you, would you seriously be able to talk him back to being your friend? Shepard isn't a jedi, they can't actually control the people around them, or their actions. Only influence them.

As for speculation:
Shepard knows a lot about cerberus, and TIM isn't the trusting sort. Why not just get rid of Shep if you think there's another way to stop the reapers? Also the fact that the SR2 has all kinds of databases on cerberus would be of great intrigue to the alliance. Hell, it could even be that he's been misinformed by, let's say Liara, that Shepard is actually going to spill all about Cerberus.

Am I right? Probably no way in hell. But lack of information tends to lead to assumptions, which are usually false, no?

[The BS Police]

Your issue with Bioware is that the story they are telling is their vision and not yours!