414 réponses à ce sujet

[DeathStride]

I really don't think Anders deserved to die after his killing of innocents. He certainly deserved to be punished, and severely, but not to "die as a martyr" as he puts it. He wants that and it would only reward his terrorist actions. A great way to solve the situation is to turn him Tranquil.

I'd even say he should serve as an errand boy for the Templars after being made Tranquil- the irony of Anders the Tranquil serving the Templars would be delicious and also perfect punishment for his unforgivable actions.

Now don't get me wrong, I think the reasons that he did what he did were very good, namely that:
1) Mages are oppressed
2) They allow themselves to be oppressed
3) Such oppression has occurred since the Chantry came to power centuries ago and cannot be allowed to continue

But the ends don't justify the means. Never have, never will. And so Anders deserves serious punishment.

ANYHOW... all that is simply the preamble. The poll asks what fate you think Anders deserves.

Poll Link


P.S. This OP is a redirect from THIS original thread accidentally made in a non-spoiler board.

Modifié par DeathStride, 18 avril 2011 - 07:52 .

[marshalleck]

As I said in your other thread:

He goes free. It's a war, and in any war there will be casualties. The Templars were warned, and the Chantry is anything but innocent--their dogma is the reason for mage imprisonment. Viva la revolution.

Modifié par marshalleck, 18 avril 2011 - 07:25 .

[DeathStride]

@marshalleck: thanks for reposting but you didn't have to, I'm about to add a link to the OP that connects back to original thread for reference.

Warheadz wrote...
I think your poll needs two different "lives"-options... For example, I let him live but I "exiled" him from
Kirkwall. Others might have let him stuck around, but I told him GTFO.

I agree, I really should have. That's the problem with polls, can't edit(for good reason, but frustrating none the less)

Modifié par DeathStride, 18 avril 2011 - 07:34 .

[Kat313]

marshalleck wrote...

As I said in your other thread:

He goes free. It's a war, and in any war there will be casualties. The Templars were warned, and the Chantry is anything but innocent--their dogma is the reason for mage imprisonment. Viva la revolution.

Nice, I like this answer. VIVA!

[DeathStride]

marshalleck wrote...

As I said in your other thread:

He goes free. It's a war, and in any war there will be casualties. The Templars were warned, and the Chantry is anything but innocent--their dogma is the reason for mage imprisonment. Viva la revolution.

I'm not against him starting a mage revolution, I'm quite passionately pro-mage freedom and that really won't happen anytime soon, if ever, without a revolution. My beef was with Anders using the Chantry as his opening move. If he wanted to start a war, he should have attacked the Templar quarters.

Modifié par DeathStride, 18 avril 2011 - 07:53 .

[Sabriana]

He died the first time around, and I'm pretty sure he'll die again this time.

But not solely for his crime. He is so far gone by that point that Hawke is simply forced to end this for the protection of the innocent in the future. After showing so little regard for the citizens of Kirkwall, their champion has to make sure he (who is not Anders any longer) will not be able to condemn others in the same fashion

In her opinion Anders no longer exists at that point, and a spirit/demon "who can't grasp the concept of mercy" (quoting Anders) has taken over.

[Gnoster]

He dies every time in my playthroughs. As you said he deserves some kind of punishment, and only option for that is to kill him, so that's what I do every time (last game that hurt me, because Bethany was sent to the circle, so I was without a healer against Orsino, which was kind of a tough fight suddenly :-) ).
Only once I've let him live because I wanted to see how the story turns out.

[Knightly_BW]

I really wished to make him tranquil and keep him as a pet so I can beat him up whenever I remember what he did.

[Isaidlunch]

He dies. He's already dangerous enough to warrant murder-knifing (Dissent in Act 2) without blowing up chantries and starting revolutions.

Asperius wrote...

I really wished to make him tranquil and keep him as a pet so I can beat him up whenever I remember what he did.

[Jenova65]

And everyone who ever blew up innocent people in the name of 'freedom', uses revolution as an excuse for murder..............
Or to put it another way ''An eye for an eye, makes the whole world blind''
Also ''Victory attained by violence is tantamount to defeat, for it is momentary''

Given a choice in the game, death is not the path I would have chosen in DA II - If I could have dealt with Anders peacefully and not have Seb go all hissypants on me..... then forget tranquil, forget death - imprisonment for the rest of his natural life but prevented form using magic somehow.

[BlueMew]

Egh. Well, I always let him live, because however wrong his actions are, none of it would have happened if not for centuries of oppression and, more Kirkwall-specific, decades of abuse. To use a Discworld-series quote: History had wanted surgery. Sometimes Dr Chopper is the only surgeon to hand. There's something final about an axe.

Still, if you do want him punished, why *not* kill him? Wanting him to suffer just sounds hmmm. Not even Vengeance went that far -- at least he just blows stuff up :/

[Dave of Canada]

Anders will always die in all my playthroughs except for my "make him side with the Templar to make him miserable" ending (should the bug be fixed). I don't like making him a martyr but it's better than having him as a living symbol to the mages.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 18 avril 2011 - 08:38 .

[sonoko]

BlueMew wrote...

Egh. Well, I always let him live, because however wrong his actions are, none of it would have happened if not for centuries of oppression and, more Kirkwall-specific, decades of abuse.

This. 
Anders always lives in my playthroughs. 

[Dave of Canada]

BlueMew wrote...

Still, if you do want him punished, why *not* kill him? Wanting him to suffer just sounds hmmm. Not even Vengeance went that far -- at least he just blows stuff up :/

Because he's going to be a hero to the mages, championed as a martyr who died for mage freedom in a war that will cause thousands of deaths (that he caused)?

[Jedi Master of Orion]

After what he started, I kind of wanted to tell him "After what's going to happen today, I will make sure every mage curses your name" before I finished him off.

[Foolsfolly]

I don't know. Tough choice.

I imagine he doesn't have long to live either way. He'd be the most wanted man in Thedas....and that's if he keeps his sanity and doesn't just go all Justice all the time. Killing homeless people for vagrancy and elves for allowing themselves to be oppressed (which was Justice's excuse for the attempted murder of that one mage).

If he doesn't go pure Justice Abomination, I don't see him living too long.

[Crossroads_Wanderer]

I think the OP suggestion of making him a Tranquil servant is tantamount to torture and certainly no form of justice. And, no, I'm not just saying this because I think he was justified. Putting him in the hands of the templars after what he did would be asking them to do all sorts of horrible things to him. It would be called 'cruel and unusual punishment' in our legal jargon.

I don't think he was wrong because the Chantry was not innocent in the wrongs that were being done to mages. The Chantry teachings are responsible for the general hatred of mages and the Chantry is responsible for the templars who are supposed to police the mages, but often abuse their power. The Grand Cleric should have removed Meredith from her position as soon as she began to usurp too much power (i.e. at the beginning of the game). Elthinia's philosophy is very hands-off, but she is in a position in which she can't be hands-off without neglecting her duty, which is what she does. The revolution is necessary and Anders picked an appropriate target to begin the revolution.

[The Morrigan]

I think letting him go makes the most sense. He's going to suffer if you let him live and you don't have the problem of people making him a martyr.

Unfortunately, my Hawke was so angry she whipped out the murder knife.

[Foolsfolly]

The Chantry teachings are responsible for the general hatred of mages

I don't know. I don't think fear/hatred of the mages is strictly a religious thing. They're walking bombs on the best of days and eldrich abominations on the worst of days. Even without the Chantry I find it hard to believe the people of Thedas would love mages.

In fact, the Qunari seem to fear mages just fine without some soft spoken priestess telling them its bad.

Modifié par Foolsfolly, 18 avril 2011 - 09:57 .

[TheBlackBaron]

Reposting from the poll:

"Unacceptable methods. Won't change. No choice. Have to kill you."

What he did there was unjustifiable and inexcusable. I'm really sorry he has to die, since he was one of my favorites in DA:A, but by Act III Anders as we knew him is basically dead, having spent the entire game in a sanity slippage from the effects of Justice. He may have a noble goal, but that goal also tramples upon the rights of many others and makes the same mistakes the Templars do but in reverse.

Tranquilization (*rimshot*) is a fate worse than death, pretty much. Nobody deserves that. So the Jory 2.0 takes its final blood.

[Foolsfolly]

BlackBaron wins the internets for quoting Mordin.

I've killed Anders more than I've spared him. (2/3)

I don't know which way to go. One part of me loves keeping him alive so he'd see the horror he's done. The other side of me realizes that Anders cannot change for the better. Justice is warping him and making him more and more insane.

Death may actually be a mercy.

[Plaintiff]

He lives. Every time. I find his crime pretty easily forgivable. I don't really care how many innocents are in the Chantry. I'm not having sex with any of them.

[Crossroads_Wanderer]

Foolsfolly wrote...

I don't know. I don't think fear/hatred of the mages is strictly a religious thing. They're walking bombs on the best of days and eldrich abominations on the worst of days. Even without the Chantry I find it hard for to believe the people of Thedas would love mages.

In fact, the Qunari seem to fear mages just fine without some soft spoken priestess telling them its bad.

It is possible that mages would be feared/hated anyway, but the Chantry enforces that view dogmatically. In a society without that sort of enforcement, there would probably be a range of tolerated ideas on the matter. In a society that has religion telling its people that magic is a sin, any other views would come to be viewed as deviant through the strength of religion ingraining the prejudice against magic into society. That sort of ingrained prejudice would then be extremely difficult to overcome, making it much harder to secure justice for the wronged. This is why theocracies don't work.

[TheBlackBaron]

Plaintiff wrote...

He lives. Every time. I find his crime pretty easily forgivable. I don't really care how many innocents are in the Chantry. I'm not having sex with any of them.

This is why it's better to have sex with Isabela and Merrill. Nobody dies except of their own accord.