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[Dave of Canada]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Saarebas might be devoted to the Qun but you can't tell me they're emotionally dead.

So what do they do that makes their emotions great? Get abused by their masters, "oh it's meal time!"?

[Jedi Master of Orion]

It's worth noting that both Saarebas and Tranquil are both essentially perfectly content with their lots in life, despite what the others in the world might think of them. So it's not only a subjective question it's one from a completely outside perspective.

[Torax]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

Saarebas might be devoted to the Qun but you can't tell me they're emotionally dead.

So what do they do that makes their emotions great? Get abused by their masters, "oh it's meal time!"?

I doubt meals happen often. Qunari can go great time spans without food. Plus try eating with your mouth sewn shut. Did the Qunari even invent straws yet?

[The Morrigan]

A lot of people think that emotion is core to humanity and living, so the idea of taking that away is abhorrent. If you choose to be Tranquil, that's different to having it forced upon you. If we're talking about a lack of choice, I would say Tranquility is worse because your emotions have been stripped from you (or at least heavily dulled). Saarebas haven't had anything taken away, besides their freedom; they're as Qunari as they would have been in any other role. It's unlikely they'll choose to rebel, but the chance is there.

Of course, I wouldn't want to be either. There's no snark without emotions and I imagine it's rather hard to quip with your mouth stitched shut.

[Torax]

Keep in mind both are imposed on you as an option for fear of death.

The Qunari are told at a young age what their role will be. They either comply or they die. This is decided as a child. So they are told basically you are a mage and you will submit to another your entire life. Your mouth will be sewn shut. Your eyes will bleed from the mask we put on you. The collar will weight you down at all times. The list in endless. If you refuse you die.

Mages are basically told that at a certain point they will either do the Harrowing and survive or die if they are possessed. If they are not worthy of the test or not willing to undergo said test they can be made Tranquil. It's a mercy instead of death. The Qunari offer 0 mercy. The Circle does offer a mercy. Even if others look upon them with scorn. The Circle offers something the Qunari never will. Mercy.

[Foolsfolly]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

Saarebas might be devoted to the Qun but you can't tell me they're emotionally dead.

So what do they do that makes their emotions great? Get abused by their masters, "oh it's meal time!"?

Nothing. That's why it's worse for the Saarebas. Tranquil don't get depressed or feel shame or anything. They just run their stores or craft runes or keep up with appointments. Whatever. Doing something is preferred to doing nothing.

Saarebas, no matter their devoution to the Qun still feel emotionally. And thus at times it must be hard for them, especially early on in life. Maybe not. Maybe Qunari emotions are unlike human, they are a different species after all. But I imagine having emotions does not help their situation.

[Dave of Canada]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Nothing. That's why it's worse for the Saarebas. Tranquil don't get depressed or feel shame or anything. They just run their stores or craft runes or keep up with appointments. Whatever. Doing something is preferred to doing nothing.

Saarebas, no matter their devoution to the Qun still feel emotionally. And thus at times it must be hard for them, especially early on in life. Maybe not. Maybe Qunari emotions are unlike human, they are a different species after all. But I imagine having emotions does not help their situation.

I'd like to offer my apologies, it's 5:36AM where I'm at and I completely misunderstood your post as Saarebas having the better lot in life. I agree with you. >.>

[Foolsfolly]

No problem, dude.

[blothulfur]

The Saarebas make a stand against their tainted souls and through the Qun resist the temptation of deviancy, the tranquil deprived of their souls are denied both the enlightenment of the Qun and their chance to prove themselves worthy and thus they have been violated beyond comprehension.

Thought for the day: For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, for every crime there is an equal and opposite punishment.

[Mayorin]

I can't imaging worse fate than being a Saarebas. Well, may be human centipede from that sick movie is worse. But this is arguable.<_<

[The Angry One]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

It's worth noting that both Saarebas and Tranquil are both essentially perfectly content with their lots in life, despite what the others in the world might think of them. So it's not only a subjective question it's one from a completely outside perspective.

Saarebas are not content. They are treated like animals all their lives and told they deserve it.
A tranquil at least operates from pure logic and still has some independant thought, a Saarebas lacks any free will, like all Qunari, but are subject to state-sancitoned abuse on top of that.

[Mnemnosyne]

Saarebas, without question. A tranquil is kind of horrifying to me in a way also, but if given the choice between one and the other I would leap to be a tranquil any day. Would be vastly superior to treatment as a saarebas.

I would consider it even worse if I actually accepted the Qun, too. While a tranquil has no emotions and no regret about it, accepting the Qun is permanent self-imposed slavery no matter how good you might feel about it.

Modifié par Koyasha, 18 avril 2011 - 12:12 .

[Beerfish]

Yeah being chained 24 hours a day, having your lips sewn shut, having some bizarre mask on and having a control rod dish out punishment whenever your handler feels it is right is much better than having a comfortable place to live, no want for food and a worthy task in life.  Not too mention being so brainwashed that any thought of freedom is a no go and you are more likely to light yourself on fire than live free.

Modifié par Beerfish, 18 avril 2011 - 02:14 .

[Elhanan]

Beerfish wrote...

Yeah being chained 24 hours a day, having your lips sewn shut, having some bizarre mask on and having a control rod dish out punishment whenever your handler feels it is right is much better than having a comfortable place to live, no want for food and a worthy task in life.  Not too mention being so brainwashed that any thought of freedom is a no go and you are more likely to light yourself on fire than live free.

But it may be an elaborate ruse of the Qun Mages to do the final act. Qun are reportedly immune to Fire, so either the mages seen frying the various Qun are using something special, are using fancy illusions, or are all playing on a lesser difficulty setting like me!

[KnightofPhoenix]

Being an abomination is probably worse than both.

[Addai]

Hmm, conscious torment or a twilight existence- not much of a choice. I would still say it's worse to be Tranquil, because a saarebas can become Tal Vashoth if they want.

[Lord Gremlin]

Tranquil - no doubt here. Tranquils basically have their souls murdered. It's as bad as it gets.

[The Angry One]

Elhanan wrote...

But it may be an elaborate ruse of the Qun Mages to do the final act. Qun are reportedly immune to Fire, so either the mages seen frying the various Qun are using something special, are using fancy illusions, or are all playing on a lesser difficulty setting like me!

www.youtube.com/watch

Orsino: Master of Illusion?

[FaeQueenCory]

Both are equally horrific.... One is removing one's life... and the other is brainwashing + slavery....
I would fight against either. Better dead than Tranquil or chained.

[Amagoi]

Personally, I think it's best to be a Saarebas. While they're lives are absolutely horrible, it's possible they can still experience some happiness. They can experience the statisfaction of fulfilling their duty, even though it condemns them to be seen as monsters by just about everyone.

Tranquil are much better off, but they feel nothing. I'd rather be able to still feel, even if it was the painful lives the Saarebas have.

Plus a Saarebas PC would be an easy way to have a silent protagonist again.

Modifié par Amagoi, 18 avril 2011 - 03:46 .

[Girl on a Rock]

Foolsfolly wrote...

Saarebas, of course.

Tranquil don't have any emotion and don't care about their lot in life. Saarebas might be devoted to the Qun but you can't tell me they're emotionally dead.

But how does this make it worse for them? The one Saarebas we got to speak with seemed to derive a great deal of comfort from the Qun.

[Girl on a Rock]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

It's worth noting that both Saarebas and Tranquil are both essentially perfectly content with their lots in life, despite what the others in the world might think of them. So it's not only a subjective question it's one from a completely outside perspective.

Excellent point. It's probable that either one of them would answer that they'd much rather their own lot than the other's.

[Beerfish]

I'm flabbergasted that so many people would take Saarebas over tranquil. Removing emotion and such can also remove bad emotions as well as good ones and at least you are not being essentially chained and tortured your whole life.

As an experiment, sit at your computer desk for an hour and pretend you are an emotion free tranquil. Then sit at your desk for an hour with a straight jacket on, duct tape on your mouth and have a friend or coworker smack you upside the head once an hour while berating you and telling you are that you are dangerous.

I think people are underestimating how bad being Saarebas is.

[Camenae]

If you ask me which one *I* would prefer to be, if those two were my only choices, then I would pick being Tranquil.

If you're asking me which one I think is happier? Then, recognizing that it's still all speculation, I would speculate that the Saarebas are probably happier. Why? Because the Tranquil don't really FEEL happy. They don't feel much of anything, if I understand their situation correctly. The Saarebas are brainwashed to the point where, yes, they suffer a lot more physical pain than the Tranquil do, but EMOTIONALLY they might well feel a sense of accomplishment, in that they are fulfilling their role correctly in the eyes of the Qun.

[Girl on a Rock]

Beerfish wrote...

I'm flabbergasted that so many people would take Saarebas over tranquil. Removing emotion and such can also remove bad emotions as well as good ones and at least you are not being essentially chained and tortured your whole life.

As an experiment, sit at your computer desk for an hour and pretend you are an emotion free tranquil. Then sit at your desk for an hour with a straight jacket on, duct tape on your mouth and have a friend or coworker smack you upside the head once an hour while berating you and telling you are that you are dangerous.

I think people are underestimating how bad being Saarebas is.

To point to what the Jedi said in an earlier post, the question is subjective and is asked from an outside perspective. This is what the situation would seem like to most people who live in the Western world in the 21st  century. To a Qunari Saarebas raised in Par Vollen/Thedas in the different universe where DA takes place, the situation could be quite different. The Saarebas not only likely  take comfort, even feel a sense of honor, achievement, and fulfillment by living the Qun, but as someone else pointed out, just as the Tranquil are spared the "bad" emotions (although I'd argue that no emotion is inherently bad), they're denied the "good" ones. They are not experiencing life. Saarebas do not live an easy life, but it's a life lived wholly.