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Whats worse: Tranquil or being a Saarebas?


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#51
The Angry One

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Girl on a Rock wrote...

To point to what the Jedi said in an earlier post, the question is subjective and is asked from an outside perspective. This is what the situation would seem like to most people who live in the Western world in the 21st  century. To a Qunari Saarebas raised in Par Vollen/Thedas in the different universe where DA takes place, the situation could be quite different. The Saarebas not only likely  take comfort, even feel a sense of honor, achievement, and fulfillment by living the Qun, but as someone else pointed out, just as the Tranquil are spared the "bad" emotions (although I'd argue that no emotion is inherently bad), they're denied the "good" ones. They are not experiencing life. Saarebas do not live an easy life, but it's a life lived wholly.


Tranquil can be fulfilled in their lot too. Owain finds his state "agreeable" and is content with his job, and doesn't need to be collared, have his lips stiched, controlled with a rod and be told he's less than an animal every day of his life to achieve that.

Oh yeah, and for a Saarebas to actually tell you they're content with their duty to the Qun with actual words, it subsequently requires their death, yours and possibly their handler's too.
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Modifié par The Angry One, 18 avril 2011 - 04:07 .


#52
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XxDeonxX wrote...

What would be worse for a mage to be in your opinion? Which are treated worse? Being a Tranquil mage in the circle or being a Saarebas in the Qun? And why do you think whichever one you believe to be worse is treated worse?


This is an interesting question. I think the qunari Saarebas have it worse. As others have stated the Tranquil aren't suffering. Yes, they've been severed from their emotions, and that's horrible but they can't feel bad about that.  They can continue to live their lives independently if they wish and have the option to do so whereas Saarebas are treated so horribly.  How can sewing their lips shut, placing that horrible collar around their neck, and caging a sentient being ever be considered respect? They are treated like beasts or slaves. It's horrible and if I had to choose to be one or the other I would choose Tranquility.

Modifié par PurebredCorn, 18 avril 2011 - 10:43 .


#53
Ramus Quaritch

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Here's what I don't get. In DA:O being a tranquil wasn't the death sentence it is depicted to be in DA2. I mean, the tranquil you meet in DA:O, while completely devoid of emotion, were alive and they were in no danger of being possessed by demons. They could live their lives safely and without fear. That can be very appealing to some people. I understand the horribleness of having no emotions, but few to none of the characters made a big deal about it in DA:O. What caused the sudden shift?

#54
Herr Uhl

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I think regular mage and Saarebas would be a more apt comparison. The Saarebas that would be up for tranquility are dead.

#55
Ramus Quaritch

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As for the original question, I would say Saarebas is worse because you are a slave and have no identity. You are simply a (hated and feared) part of the Qun hierarchy. You don't even have a name or even if you do, you can't tell anyone your name because you'll be executed if you speak. No one would know who you really are.

#56
Wulfram

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I do wonder why "Ketojan" gives you a blood magic amulet, if Saarebas are so content.

#57
Jedi Master of Orion

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I figured it was something that just so happened to help blood magic if used, not that it was specifically intended as one.

#58
Crossroads_Wanderer

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I think that Tranquility would be worse because it is a forced personality change, essentially taking away a big part of who you are. I think it's rather horrifying to have someone have that kind of control over who you are. It's like a forced lobotomy.

In terms of what would be harder from the viewpoint of the individual involved, I think it would be harder to be a Saarebas, as they seem to be treated worse. Still, I would rather be mistreated and retain my identity than live a pampered life and be fundamentally altered.

#59
The Big Nothing

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Morally? Tranquil
Physically? Saarebas

The choices are:

Saarebas - Live like a collared animal, but retain your personality and feelings

or

Tranquil - Suffer a magical lobotomy and become a hollow, emotionless shell of a person, but be free
  • OmegaTaz aime ceci

#60
Serelir

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Saarebas have the cooler outfits by far.

#61
T764

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Saarebas have the choice to not follow the Qun, Tranquil will always be Tranquil.

#62
TEWR

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Tranquil. At least Saarebas can still feel emotions.

#63
Beerfish

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T764 wrote...

Saarebas have the choice to not follow the Qun, Tranquil will always be Tranquil.


Yeah, try and 'leave the Qun' as a magic user and see what happens......then again seeing how competant the Arishok was at finding his book you might just pull it off.

#64
Beerfish

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The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Tranquil. At least Saarebas can still feel emotions.


By seeing what Ketojan did and how he viewed things he was almost equally emotionally fettered.  He was happy and thankful that the hero freed him but still felt he had to kill himself.  To go along with the extreme physical discomfort.  Emotions are over rated.  :P

#65
The Angry One

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T764 wrote...

Saarebas have the choice to not follow the Qun, Tranquil will always be Tranquil.


And a mage can choose to be an apostate and not be Tranquilled, so what?

#66
hoorayforicecream

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The Angry One wrote...

And a mage can choose to be an apostate and not be Tranquilled, so what?


I don't think apostate was one of the choices. :?

#67
Herr Uhl

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hoorayforicecream wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

And a mage can choose to be an apostate and not be Tranquilled, so what?

I don't think apostate was one of the choices. :?

Same goes for Saarebas.

#68
Torax

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hoorayforicecream wrote...

The Angry One wrote...

And a mage can choose to be an apostate and not be Tranquilled, so what?


I don't think apostate was one of the choices. :?


Was Angry One's point. You can't say that the Qunari could choose to not follow the Qun. Would be like a mage choosing to not be a part of the circle. Both are also punishable by death...

#69
Icy Magebane

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Seems to be the same to me. Saarebas believe in the Qun, so they accept whatever happens to them... Tranquil mages don't have the capacity to feel emotions, so they don't care either. Both are pretty bad, but I guess Tranquil mages have it worse, since that's not something (usually) done by choice. Once it's been done to a mage though, it doesn't matter anymore.

I wouldn't call either group mistreated as a whole... technically, it's a crime to abuse Tranquil mages, so whatever rogue Templars do can't be counted as normal. And as stated, Saarebas willingly go through whatever it is they have to do, so again, no mistreatment.

#70
Herr Uhl

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Icy Magebane wrote...

And as stated, Saarebas willingly go through whatever it is they have to do, so again, no mistreatment.


Willingly is a relative term here. It is either do what they do or die.

#71
Torax

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Icy Magebane wrote...

Seems to be the same to me. Saarebas believe in the Qun, so they accept whatever happens to them... Tranquil mages don't have the capacity to feel emotions, so they don't care either. Both are pretty bad, but I guess Tranquil mages have it worse, since that's not something (usually) done by choice. Once it's been done to a mage though, it doesn't matter anymore.

I wouldn't call either group mistreated as a whole... technically, it's a crime to abuse Tranquil mages, so whatever rogue Templars do can't be counted as normal. And as stated, Saarebas willingly go through whatever it is they have to do, so again, no mistreatment.


On the contrary. Sure if you base all your logic on Kirkwall's Circle than you may assume majority of Tranquil are not by their own choice. Jowan in Origins was only going to be made Tranquil because it was believed (Also proven true later) that he was a blood mage already. So Jowan was going to be made Tranquil to halt his use of blood magic instantly. Sure he hated the idea as many would. But lets not claim he was innocent. He was telling lies to even the woman he claimed to love.

Now if you go by assumptions in regards to the Kirkwall Circle then it's like they make everyone Tranquil for fun. This is the Order that is run by Meredith by the way. The very Knight-Commander that refers to magic as a curse. So we can't have this make it true for every Circle in Thedas. At best it's only true for Kirkwall.

#72
hoorayforicecream

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Herr Uhl wrote...

Icy Magebane wrote...

And as stated, Saarebas willingly go through whatever it is they have to do, so again, no mistreatment.


Willingly is a relative term here. It is either do what they do or die.


Saarebas who follow the Qun serve willingly. They also willingly kill themselves when they are no longer capable of serving the Qun. :?

#73
Torax

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hoorayforicecream wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Icy Magebane wrote...

And as stated, Saarebas willingly go through whatever it is they have to do, so again, no mistreatment.


Willingly is a relative term here. It is either do what they do or die.


Saarebas who follow the Qun serve willingly. They also willingly kill themselves when they are no longer capable of serving the Qun. :?


And if they don't accept the Qun as a child they are killed on the spot. Think of it as no matter what it's a choice of life or death for all Qunari. Follow the Qun or die. Saarebas just have more rules to follow than probably all other Qunari. But they all have to decide to Follow the Qun or die. It's only later that some break free and run. But since Saarebas are leashed they don't get away as often I wager. Unless the holder of their Leash is the one that would leave and take them along for the ride.

#74
Herr Uhl

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hoorayforicecream wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Icy Magebane wrote...

And as stated, Saarebas willingly go through whatever it is they have to do, so again, no mistreatment.


Willingly is a relative term here. It is either do what they do or die.


Saarebas who follow the Qun serve willingly. They also willingly kill themselves when they are no longer capable of serving the Qun. :?


We've seen one do that. Hardly enough to warrant a they.

But if it is, in that case I say that mages murder several people to infuse a demon on several corpses that've been stitched together.

#75
Torax

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I should amend that. Qunari waste nothing. If a child of the Qun refused to follow the Qun, they are likely lobotomized and made to work in the mines. Except for Saarebas. They would be too risky so likely killed. But the rest are truly made into something far worse than even Tranquil. All because they don't like the role demanded of them.